RE: Tattoos Anyone? (Full Version)

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DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 1:35:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that is exactly where Jesus would have been hanging out, had He come today. Maybe not literally tattoo parlors, but certainly that kind of place. And He would be interested in reaching out to those people. He spoke to them on their terms, not in hyper-religious language. He was interested in reaching them where they were. He was reaching out into the dark places of the world.


Can you give any scripture references to back up your claim? I may be wrong (has happened before![;)]) but I don't recall any instances given of Jesus "hanging out" in seedy joints. People came to Him...in many instances He called and then they came, but they came to Him, where He was. Yes, He reached out to all peoples, but in his normal, day-to-day activities...walking on the road, attending weddings, crossing the lake, etc.

People like to "assume" as to what Jesus did while on earth, but I think we need to be careful and stick to only what we know to be sure and true of His life...that which has been written down for us.

As a matter of fact, I can't think of any instance in the entire Bible of someone going into pagan territory to proclaim God's Truth. There were times when God's Truth was proclaimed in the worst of places but it was because someone was there by reason of duress and not of their own accord...such as Daniel, Joseph, Paul, Peter.



MrFribbles -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 1:47:58 PM)

quote:

Soooo.....the motivation for these Christians getting tatoos is to preach the Gospel? Is that what you're saying, Mr. Fribbles? I suppose then, that Christians should go inside strip joints, (sorry "Gentlemens' Clubs") where all those nasty sinners congregate, and preach the Gospel. Now that would take quite a bit of self-control and discipline. But yeah, I suppose some could have a calling to go inside strip joints and preach the Gospel. Course, I dunno how long they would be able to stay there without getting drawn into all the stimuli.


For some Christians, absolutely. I refer back to my friend who got "It Is For Freedom That Christ Set Us Free" tattooed in onto his wrists in the Greek. I don't see any other reason he would have gotten that if not to make his relationship with Christ permanent and public.
Now, as to the strip joints - it depends on the Christian. I once heard a true story about a church that rented space in a shopping center (or strip mall, but I want to avoid the pun) to meet, since they couldn't yet afford a building of their own. Well, in that same shopping center, there was a strip club. One day, a group of the church's women heard that one of the strippers had been killed in a car accident. They got together, bought a giant bouquet of flowers, went together to the strip club, and dropped them off, letting everyone know they were from the church, and they were very sorry for their loss. As a direct result, practically every stripper from that place was in church the next Sunday!
Now, me personally, as a Christian man who struggles in that area, it would not be a good idea to witness there, because I'd be putting myself right in the line of fire, so to speak. But someone has to reach those people.

quote:

Now here's an idea (as regards your first comment). Christians taking their Bibles to those "seedy" places where tatoo "parlors" reside, and preaching the Gospel. All while getting a tatoo on one's behind.
Now that's really being unashamed for the Gospel and putting one's neck...er....behind out on the line.


Well, it would depend on what type of tattoo they're getting. Obviously, not all tattoos are morally neutral. Those ones you mentioned where young women put them on the small of their backs - I'm pretty sure those are almost universally gotten with the intent of drawing attention to parts of their bodies that, well, shouldn't be drawn attention to, heh, and as such, are wrong.
But, if you're getting either a neutral tattoo (the name of your spouse, for example), or even a good one (another friend of mine had an awesome tattoo depicting Christ's return in glory - very cool), then yeah, I would say getting a tattoo could be a great witnessing time.

quote:

And if Jesus were here today, I bet he'd have no problem walking into one of those tatoo joints and getting a tatoo. Now, I'm just wondering what kind of tatoo He would get.


Maybe one that says "About My Father's Business"? ; )



Solus -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 1:52:57 PM)

As is so often said, it is not the healthy that need a doctor.



MrFribbles -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 2:04:10 PM)

quote:

Can you give any scripture references to back up your claim?


My pleasure.

Matthew 9:10-11.
Mark 2:15-16.
...Those may be the same instance, I'm not sure.
Then there's the whole Samaria thing. The idea of a Jew staying for two days in Samaritan territory? Absurd! Unheard of! No good Jew would ever do such a thing, because those Samaritans were just wrong.
Since the gospels weren't given like our modern narratives, they don't tell us a whole lot about where Jesus went to relax. But since He came to reach out to people who needed Him, I see no reason to think He would stay with the "religious" people of the day above the sinners.

quote:

As a matter of fact, I can't think of any instance in the entire Bible of someone going into pagan territory to proclaim God's Truth.


Jonah? Also, many of the prophets went into effectively pagan territory by preaching to their own people after they had turned away from God.
Philip and the Eunuch.
And really, considering the fact that after Christ, anyone who wasn't a Christian was effectively pagan, I would say that the entire book of Acts was about God's people going into pagan territory to proclaim the Gospel.

quote:

There were times when God's Truth was proclaimed in the worst of places but it was because someone was there by reason of duress and not of their own accord...such as Daniel, Joseph, Paul, Peter.


Paul? Seriously? I'm pretty sure he chose to go on those missionary journeys. Obviously, there were times he was under duress, but there were also many times when he went boldly and willingly into hostile lands.
Peter, too - Cornelius wasn't hostile, but he was certainly pagan.



KatMack -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 4:28:11 PM)

What I find interesting is that those that are quoting the Levitical law refuse to address the issue of whether they keep all Levitical law or just those that strike them as appropriate.

What I also find interesting (on a personal note) is that I was just in the "Advice on unmarried couple" thread and found myself agreeing with a certain group of posters. Then I wander over here and find myself in disagreement with those same people. [8D]

--Kat



HisFish -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 9:01:30 PM)

quote:

For some Christians, absolutely. I refer back to my friend who got "It Is For Freedom That Christ Set Us Free" tattooed in onto his wrists in the Greek. I don't see any other reason he would have gotten that if not to make his relationship with Christ permanent

No tattoo can do that which only a move of the Holy spirit can accomplish.



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 9:25:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

Can you give any scripture references to back up your claim?


My pleasure.

Matthew 9:10-11.
Mark 2:15-16.
...Those may be the same instance, I'm not sure.
Then there's the whole Samaria thing. The idea of a Jew staying for two days in Samaritan territory? Absurd! Unheard of! No good Jew would ever do such a thing, because those Samaritans were just wrong.
Since the gospels weren't given like our modern narratives, they don't tell us a whole lot about where Jesus went to relax. But since He came to reach out to people who needed Him, I see no reason to think He would stay with the "religious" people of the day above the sinners.

quote:

As a matter of fact, I can't think of any instance in the entire Bible of someone going into pagan territory to proclaim God's Truth.


Jonah? Also, many of the prophets went into effectively pagan territory by preaching to their own people after they had turned away from God.
Philip and the Eunuch.
And really, considering the fact that after Christ, anyone who wasn't a Christian was effectively pagan, I would say that the entire book of Acts was about God's people going into pagan territory to proclaim the Gospel.

quote:

There were times when God's Truth was proclaimed in the worst of places but it was because someone was there by reason of duress and not of their own accord...such as Daniel, Joseph, Paul, Peter.


Paul? Seriously? I'm pretty sure he chose to go on those missionary journeys. Obviously, there were times he was under duress, but there were also many times when he went boldly and willingly into hostile lands.
Peter, too - Cornelius wasn't hostile, but he was certainly pagan.


As I am totally impressed with your understanding of scripture, would you please be so kind to explain the following phrase for me? "Abstain from all appearance of evil." It's just so confusing and doggoned vague!

Thank you for your help! [:)]



stellaluna -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 10:49:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatMack
What I find interesting is that those that are quoting the Levitical law refuse to address the issue of whether they keep all Levitical law or just those that strike them as appropriate.

Nice try, Kat.

I guess what we have here is a case of selective reading.



MrFribbles -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/10/2008 11:04:09 PM)

quote:

No tattoo can do that which only a move of the Holy spirit can accomplish.


I never suggested a tattoo will get someone saved. Obviously that's God's work. But, it can open a door. In the same way that a Christian t-shirt will never save anyone, but can be used as a way to start a conversation that leads to a sharing of the Gospel.

quote:

As I am totally impressed with your understanding of scripture, would you please be so kind to explain the following phrase for me? "Abstain from all appearance of evil." It's just so confusing and doggoned vague!


My pleasure.
That passage is speaking of prophecy. Looking from verse 19 (or 20, perhaps?) onward to verse 22, the one you brought up, deals with testing prophetic utterances. We are not to either blindly accept them, or outright reject them. Rather, we are to test everything, hold onto what's good, and abstain from every form of prophecy that's evil. That's why it's so very important to read Scripture in context.



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 8:20:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

As I am totally impressed with your understanding of scripture, would you please be so kind to explain the following phrase for me? "Abstain from all appearance of evil." It's just so confusing and doggoned vague!


My pleasure.
That passage is speaking of prophecy. Looking from verse 19 (or 20, perhaps?) onward to verse 22, the one you brought up, deals with testing prophetic utterances. We are not to either blindly accept them, or outright reject them. Rather, we are to test everything, hold onto what's good, and abstain from every form of prophecy that's evil. That's why it's so very important to read Scripture in context.


Okay...whew! I was worried that that scripture might actually apply to me! Glad to hear it only applies to "prophetic utterances". So, with that in mind, you're telling me I don't have to be concerned about "quenching the spirit", testing "all things", holding "fast to what is good", etc, etc, etc? I can relax in those areas?

Where does this "prophetic utterance" theme actually begin and end? How about the part that says we should rejoice always and pray without ceasing and give thanks? Is that only in reference to prophetic utterances?

And what about that odd little word "all" in verse 21 (of 1 Thess. 5)? What exactly is the "all" I'm supposed to test?

I have a little commentary by J. Vernon McGee (probably a crack-pot anyway) that states the section beginning with 1 Thessalonians 5:11 and going through verse 27 are sort-of "commandments" by Paul to Christians. He seems to think that "despise not prophesyings" is a different commandment than "abstain from all appearance of evil". Here are his musings (probably misguided...who does this McGee guy think he is anyway?) on 1 Thess. 5:22: "This nineteenth commandment is the answer for questionable pastimes and amusements. If there is any question in your mind whether something is right or wrong, then it is wrong for you. Abstain from all appearance of evil."

Well, good...another page I can rip out of my Bible! It's starting to get down to a managable few pages! It's so nice to know I can pick and choose and manipulate scripture to my own desire! [:)]



stellaluna -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 9:23:02 AM)

The sarcasm is really getting me down. [8|]

Still waiting for an explanation of what Levitical law to follow and what not to.

And I ran across this last night in my bible reading, but I don't know if it applies to this coversation:
quote:


Ephesians 2
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.



edgibson -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 10:31:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber

quote:

ORIGINAL: edgibson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber

Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?

Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!



Are you influencing the culture? And if so, for better of worse?

I really would like to know which parts of Leviticus we are supposed to be following. The tattoo one, obviously, but what of the rest?


quote:

ORIGINAL: edgibson

Still, waiting.

Are christians to follow the Leviticus laws or not? This is a simple question.


I am also still waiting for an answer to my question...an answer that is not in the form of a question, please. And my question is not on Leviticus...it's just too "Levitical" for some, I'm sure.

So, for clairity's sake, here's my original question:
Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?



Since you will not answer without an answer.....
Yes.

No, I am not being cryptic.

I, alas, am not perfect. I am, therefore, influenced by my environment. (BTW, so is everyone else.)

I am, thankfully, a christian. Therefore I do work at being a positive influence on those same surroundings. I am not always as effective in that respect as I would like to be, but tattoos do not have any bearing on that.

I have 4 tattoos, I will be receiving my 5th in November if all goes well. My first 3 were prior to becoming a christian. My 4th was 4 years after. The fifth will be almost 10 years.

Now, you have my answer. Could you answer my original question, please.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 10:31:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

The sarcasm is really getting me down. [8|]

Still waiting for an explanation of what Levitical law to follow and what not to.

And I ran across this last night in my bible reading, but I don't know if it applies to this coversation:
quote:


Ephesians 2
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.


Ditto. I'm finding it hard to read some posts that are dripping with it. [8|]



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 10:53:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

The sarcasm is really getting me down. [8|]

Still waiting for an explanation of what Levitical law to follow and what not to.

And I ran across this last night in my bible reading, but I don't know if it applies to this coversation:
quote:


Ephesians 2
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.



Okay...point taken...and it's a good point. I'll try to tone down the sarcasm. Thank you for pointing it out...it's a problem that the Holy Spirit deals with in me and I just ignore Him sometimes. (To be brutally honest! [8|]) I'm one to hold people's feet to the fire and I need that myself as well.

Now, as to the scripture you referenced...a commentary I consulted on that very scripture sent me to Romans 7:12 and the surrounding verses. The law is "holy and just" and, as one preacher put it, was given to "frustrate us" so that we might find we have no choice but to turn to God.

I'm also reminded of Matthew 5:17-20. So I believe the law is important to God. There is abundant scripture that enforces that...it's not just an "interpretation."

And, by the way...have you ever noticed (this is directed to everyone) that it's not "laws" but "law"...singular. It's to be taken as a whole, not dissected, picked apart and used as is convenient. Unfortunately, I see that happening here quite often.



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 11:22:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: edgibson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber

quote:

ORIGINAL: edgibson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber

Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?

Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!



Are you influencing the culture? And if so, for better of worse?

I really would like to know which parts of Leviticus we are supposed to be following. The tattoo one, obviously, but what of the rest?


quote:

ORIGINAL: edgibson

Still, waiting.

Are christians to follow the Leviticus laws or not? This is a simple question.


I am also still waiting for an answer to my question...an answer that is not in the form of a question, please. And my question is not on Leviticus...it's just too "Levitical" for some, I'm sure.

So, for clairity's sake, here's my original question:
Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?



Since you will not answer without an answer.....
Yes.

No, I am not being cryptic.

I, alas, am not perfect. I am, therefore, influenced by my environment. (BTW, so is everyone else.)

I am, thankfully, a christian. Therefore I do work at being a positive influence on those same surroundings. I am not always as effective in that respect as I would like to be, but tattoos do not have any bearing on that.

I have 4 tattoos, I will be receiving my 5th in November if all goes well. My first 3 were prior to becoming a christian. My 4th was 4 years after. The fifth will be almost 10 years.

Now, you have my answer. Could you answer my original question, please.


Thank you, Stella, for your honesty. I agree with your point about us all being influenced by the culture that surrounds us.

However, the Bible warns us, again and again and again, to not be taken in by the culture of the world. God spent too much time on that point for us to either take it lightly or twist it to justify our lusts of the flesh and eyes or our pride of life.

I will try to answer your question, but it's not as simple as you think. I believe we are to follow the "spirit" of what was laid out in Leviticus for us. Leviticus need to be read with an understanding of the culture in place when it was written. I'm not enough of a history scholor to know all that but others have helped me understand. But I believe that, just because something isn't preceeded by "Thou shalt not...", it's no less important. Those "shalts and shalt nots" were the outline.

When the Children of Israel headed out of Egypt, they were going from one pagan and idolotrous nation into many others. (Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire!) Many of them had adopted customs from the Egyptians, and God, in His infinite knowledge, knew this would continue be a problem...well, for all of us too. We're no different from the Israelites in most (if not all) ways.

There were many perverse things the Caananites were engaging in that were to become strictly taboo for the Chosen of God...those He desired to set apart so they could have a relationship with Him. He desired that His people be "peculiar", stand out and be obviously different than the people that surrounded them. By doing so would bring glory to Him, and Him alone.

This is the "spirit of the law" (if you will) of Leviticus...I believe...that needs to be adhered to today. Here's an example: if there is a law on the books that forbids throwing rocks through windows and a kid is taken into court for throwing marbles, he will still be convicted for breaking the "spirit" of the law...even though nothing is said in the law about "marbles" in particular.

Now as to the tattooing issue, I believe it's important to know the history and evolution of tattooing. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about it, but it's roots seem to be steeped in mysticism, which is something that's definitely on the "no-no" list! In some very terse research, I came across this link: http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/bible.html I'm going back to it to read more since it's a new site for me.

So to answer the simple question, I think the book of Leviticus is still relevant, as is all scripture, and we have to take it extremely seriously and prayerfully. We also need to be careful to take the Bible as a "whole" in all our considerations of scripture. I think Leviticus is included to help us understand the importance of holiness and to understand that, without it, we will not have a relationship with God that brings honor and glory to Him. None of us will "make it" to that goal here but that doesn't, in any way, excuse us from striving for that goal.

Does this make any sense at all?



edgibson -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 11:41:45 AM)

I understand what you are saying, and I would caution.

"Following the spirit" of the law is what got the Jewish people so hung up on minutia.

The "spirit" of the verse in question had to do with burial rites. As someone stated earlier, in the original language there is no comma. It was one continuous thought.

To paraphrase "Do not carve your flesh or mark yourself in honor of the dead because I am the Lord your God."

What they were doing was making marks for pagan gods (in some cases ancestor worship)

Tattooing predates the written word. Modern tattooing came, primarily, from the Polynesian islands. Sailors who first landed there were intrigued by the tattoos that the indigenous people had and began to copy them.

Almost all Polynesians were tattooed. They used it as a substitute for written language (as they had none). An individual's tattoos told what tribe they were in, what family, their status in the tribe, marital status etc.

When the first missionaries arrived they misconstrued these tattoos as a pagan religious rite and attempted to ban it.



Doc65 -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 11:43:43 AM)

...so, according to this article, http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/bible.html, the early church was wrong? And somehow or another, some of us, in our infinitely greater wisdom in these "modern" days, are so much more correct in our interpretation of scripture than those who were much more contemporary to Christ and the Apostles? I noticed that on the main page, the author(s) seem to have a "shotgun" approach to things - anything which they themselves do not specifically agree with falls in their sights and is labelled sinful...

Such folks should be taken with a very, very large grain of salt...
It just seems really, really odd and I find it equally as hard to believe, that the early church would have done something that would have been contradictory to Christian doctrine and belief.

But, hey, us "moderns" know so much more (and, yes, sarcasm was intended...)[>:]



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 11:45:18 AM)

Oh, and another thing...not that anyone's asked...here's my personal opinion of tattoos. (Note...I don't give much credence to opinions!)

Anyway, I've considered getting one, on more than one occasion. I think some of them are pretty and fun! (Surprised?) BUT, my parents would be upset and I was raised a certain way, so that would be dishonoring to them (and you can still dishonor your parents even if they've passed on). Also, my husband has said, "Please don't," so that would be disrespectful to him.

Again, it's taking the Bible as a whole.



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 11:49:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc65

...so, according to this article, http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/bible.html, the early church was wrong? And somehow or another, some of us, in our infinitely greater wisdom in these "modern" days, are so much more correct in our interpretation of scripture than those who were much more contemporary to Christ and the Apostles? I noticed that on the main page, the author(s) seem to have a "shotgun" approach to things - anything which they themselves do not specifically agree with falls in their sights and is labelled sinful...

Such folks should be taken with a very, very large grain of salt...
It just seems really, really odd and I find it equally as hard to believe, that the early church would have done something that would have been contradictory to Christian doctrine and belief.

But, hey, us "moderns" know so much more (and, yes, sarcasm was intended...)[>:]


Like I said, that site is new to me. I liked it, off the bat, because they were quite hard on Joel Osteen! [:D] Anyway, it was just one I can across this morning. And I need to examine it more thoroughly before I recommend it!



Doc65 -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 11:55:08 AM)

quote:

Like I said, that site is new to me. I liked it, off the bat, because they were quite hard on Joel Osteen! Anyway, it was just one I can across this morning. And I need to examine it more thoroughly before I recommend it!


I hope you don't think I'm trying to be antagonistic, as it seems, at least on this thread, everyone is agreeing to disagree ("the joyful rumble" as one of my profs described some of our symposia...), but I've learned to become suspect of individuals who paint with a wide brush - eventually everyone in their eyes are dirty but they never notice the dirt clinging to themselves...

Blessings on your day! [sm=hippiesmile.gif][sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 1:35:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc65

quote:

Like I said, that site is new to me. I liked it, off the bat, because they were quite hard on Joel Osteen! Anyway, it was just one I can across this morning. And I need to examine it more thoroughly before I recommend it!


I hope you don't think I'm trying to be antagonistic, as it seems, at least on this thread, everyone is agreeing to disagree ("the joyful rumble" as one of my profs described some of our symposia...), but I've learned to become suspect of individuals who paint with a wide brush - eventually everyone in their eyes are dirty but they never notice the dirt clinging to themselves...

Blessings on your day! [sm=hippiesmile.gif][sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]


I agree with you on that. I suspect anyone who hates everything or everyone, anyone who loves everything or anyone, anyone who is liked by all and anyone who is hated by all!



MrFribbles -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 5:41:28 PM)

quote:

I was worried that that scripture might actually apply to me!


Oh, no worries, it does.

quote:

Glad to hear it only applies to "prophetic utterances".


How would you define "prophetic utterances"?
In my understanding, prophecy is not all about foretelling. More often then not, it is forth-telling; that is, someone claiming to proclaim the truth of God. If a Christian is never around someone who claims to be preaching the truth of God, then how could they be properly fed? However, they certainly have to be careful, because many people claiming to preach God's word aren't - either from lack of proper understanding, or from actual deceitful intent. That was a problem in Paul's day, and it certainly remains a problem today. Hence the need for this warning.

quote:

So, with that in mind, you're telling me I don't have to be concerned about "quenching the spirit", testing "all things", holding "fast to what is good", etc, etc, etc? I can relax in those areas?


I'm a bit confused as to where I said that in my message, but that's unimportant right now.
For someone to quench the Spirit, I would say that they are turning themselves off to hearing any teaching contrary to their comfortable, pre-conceived notions. People in this mindset say, "I've learned enough, I don't need to listen to any more of God's truth," which, in effect, is stopping their "ears" to the Spirit's voice.
Testing all things applies listening with discernment to every teaching that comes forth according to the standard of Scripture - the only absolute guide we have to measure truth against.
Holding fast to what is good, of course, means that if a certain message claiming to be God's truth stands up to the test, then it is to be accepted. If it doesn't, then we are to abstain from it, no matter what form it comes in.

quote:

Where does this "prophetic utterance" theme actually begin and end?


Looking at the Greek, I would say it begins at verse 19, and goes through the end of 22. Some major translations, like the NIV or ESV, can be a bit confusing here, since they put periods where the Greek does not. The NIV does maintain a pretty good paragraph break, though.

quote:

How about the part that says we should rejoice always and pray without ceasing and give thanks? Is that only in reference to prophetic utterances?


Nope. Verses 16, 17 and 18 are one sentence, separate from 19-22. Just glancing at them, I would say that those three verses deal with prayer - another very important part of the Christian life, obviously.

quote:

And what about that odd little word "all" in verse 21 (of 1 Thess. 5)? What exactly is the "all" I'm supposed to test?


All prophetic utterances - that is, every time you hear (or read) someone who is claiming to be proclaiming godly truth, no matter who is saying it.

quote:

I have a little commentary by J. Vernon McGee (probably a crack-pot anyway) that states the section beginning with 1 Thessalonians 5:11 and going through verse 27 are sort-of "commandments" by Paul to Christians. He seems to think that "despise not prophesyings" is a different commandment than "abstain from all appearance of evil".


While I'm sure Mr. McGee is well-grounded and a trustworthy author in many areas, I just don't see how he can reach that conclusion looking at the Greek. 19-22 are clearly one sentence. To me, this is like... Well, for example, let's say you were to look at my first sentence in this paragraph, and thought, "Oh, looking at the first part, he clearly trusts McGee!", but then from the 2nd part, you think "He clearly thinks McGee knows nothing about the Greek language in any of his writings!" That would, of course, be absurd; something you would never do! But I feel that, in this one instance, McGee is doing something just like that.

quote:

Here are his musings (probably misguided...who does this McGee guy think he is anyway?) on 1 Thess. 5:22: "This nineteenth commandment is the answer for questionable pastimes and amusements. If there is any question in your mind whether something is right or wrong, then it is wrong for you. Abstain from all appearance of evil."


Even if McGee is right, I would have 2 objections.
1, there are no questions in my mind about tattoos being universally wrong.
2, if one looks hard enough, they can find a question for any activity. Some Christians could say, hypothetically, that taking part in an online discussion forum is wrong because "it's online, and we all know what kind of sketchy materials are available online - it would be better to abstain from the internet altogether!" Absurd to say as a universal rule, of course, but going from McGee's definition, I feel it is feasible.

quote:

Well, good...another page I can rip out of my Bible! It's starting to get down to a managable few pages! It's so nice to know I can pick and choose and manipulate scripture to my own desire!


I'm pretty upset that you accused me of this.



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 6:39:49 PM)

Mr. Fribbles, I think you just like to argue!

I can tell that because you contradict yourself!



tafkam -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 6:39:52 PM)

Personally, I think tattoos look trashy, especially on women.....but that is all it is....my opinion.

But alas, I can find no Scriptural basis for saying "tattoos are wrong". So if that's your thing, have at it......[:D]



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Tattoos Anyone? (6/11/2008 6:45:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

Personally, I think tattoos look trashy, especially on women.....but that is all it is....my opinion.

But alas, I can find no Scriptural basis for saying "tattoos are wrong". So if that's your thing, have at it......[:D]


Personally, I agree with you. I think tattoos look trashy on everyone...if they're visible anyway. There's a reason you don't (normally) see them on people that are in executive or professional careers. But, if I did have one, it would be someplace that's not obvious!

And, no...there's no scripture that says "Thou shalt not have tattoos" (other than Leviticus...but we won't revisit that). But ultimately, it's between a person and God. And that's what everyone wants to hear!



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