CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL?


Yes
  82% (42)
No
  11% (6)
Not sure
  0% (0)
This is a stupid question
  5% (3)


Total Votes : 51
(last vote on : 8/7/2008 7:40:27 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

crankius -> CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 11:36:02 AM)

By "church" I am not referring to the Body of Christ that every believer is a part of and that is central to our lives.

Church in this poll is strictly for the local organization each believer is part of.



MrFribbles -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 11:53:01 AM)

Absolutely. Anything can be an idol, if we let it grow bigger than God in our lives.
I would say one of the ways, though certainly not the only way, is for people to make church all about politics, and an excuse to abuse power. Ya' know, the type of church goer who donates a lot of money to the church, but only so they can "convince" the people in charge to give them more power and influence.
That's just one example - I'm sure there are many, many other ways it can become an idol.



bzirk -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 12:42:09 PM)

This making church an idol is one of the things that really turned me off traditional church when I was a young person. When I really started getting hold of the truth that church was the body of believers and not an institution, it set me free but also hacked me off at what I'd been exposed to as a kid. I was about 17-18 when this began to take place. It wasn't until I was about 28-29 that I was able to really forgive those elders I felt had let me down in teaching what the church is by their deeds as well as their words, and I in turn asked their forgiveness for being so unforgiving of them.



crankius -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 1:10:47 PM)

Church has definitely been an idol for me in the past.

God put some serious struggles in my life and it helped to enlighten me. [sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]

“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks to us in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: It is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world” C.S. Lewis

What was more important to me--my personal walk with my Savior, or my role in the church? Would I be willing to sacrifice my personal relationship with God to keep the church organization my priority?

Wow.

I spent about a year in personal study and reflection, not doing much with church at all. I'm so thankful for that time. Completely changed my perspective.

Now I sometimes struggle with the opposite problem. [8D]



bluestone -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 1:15:18 PM)

Been there, bought the denim jumper.[;)]

Church was my idol for years. I finally decided to jump the fence and immediately things began to improve for me spiritually, plus I was not exhausted from church work.

I am very careful now to not get back in the grind at new church.



lw9 -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 1:33:50 PM)

Yes, absolutely. I've run across many who put their absolute trust and faith into their local church, and it's such a dangerous thing to do.

quote:

I spent about a year in personal study and reflection, not doing much with church at all. I'm so thankful for that time. Completely changed my perspective.


I spent about 2 years away from church, and am also totally thankful for it. If I had not been removed, I would never have grown as I did and learned to study, discern, and totally rely on God and His word alone. I would say that I actually became a Christian during that time. I can't thank God enough for His mercy, grace, and work.



rlj -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 1:40:55 PM)

My first thought was from Revelation:

Revelation 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. 4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. 5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. (NIV)

I've always thought that to mean they got so invovled with their work for the gospel that they forgot what it was about in the first place.



rcjames -> RE: (6/5/2008 3:13:52 PM)

CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL?

No, but religion surely can.


Thanks
RC



JimboFletch -> RE: RE: (6/5/2008 3:22:12 PM)

I've always thought of my local church as a relationship. I can't say I ever "did" church, to me it was like family.



crankius -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 3:40:22 PM)

Y'all messed up my title. [:D]

Fixing it.



phosadaud -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 9:53:49 PM)

I think evidence that church can become an idol is shown when we blame "it" for our spiritual struggles. Seriously. I see no Scriptural evidence for this. Are there troubles in church? Absolutely! Read the struggles and screwups of the early church. But also read about how this was addressed.

Church has always been very humbling to me and made me "be" a Christian instead of "feeling" like a Christian. In church, I have to love the unlovable and not get in a huff offended and walk out because of "those" people. In church, I have to serve when I don't want to serve and get past me, myself and I. In church, I have to learn to say NO and do what God calls me to do and not what man calls me to do and learn to stop blaming other people for overcommitting myself. In church, I have to learn what it is to be watched in everything I do and be reminded that my life is not my own. In church, I have to humble myself because when I refuse to listen to God, He'll have someone stick it in my face.

Church is not the problem.

A QUICK NOTE: I am not arguing that any ol' "church" is ok because none are perfect. I believe however that we are called to fellowship: with the good, the bad and the ugly. One of my big gripes with the "leave the church movement" is that people want to surround themselves with people "they" like, "they" get along with, "they" relate to and call that "church". I call that the "1st church of me, myself & I"[;)]



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 10:02:17 PM)

Yepper.

For 20 yrs I was a member of a congregation that worshiped church. Church attendance, being there every single time the doors were open for every and any reason, the intimation or downright declaration that missing some function or event was a sin. Lists of "you must" and "you should" being handed down from the pulpit every Sunday. Tsk-Tsk-ing anyone who didn't stay for Sunday School or wouldn't help with one of the multitudes of fundraisers.

It was a joyless and ever increasingly demanding way to live.

Jesus? Oh, we never talked about Him.[:(]

I sincerely and fervently thank God that I am out of that atmosphere and attitude.



rlj -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/5/2008 11:54:49 PM)

quote:

A QUICK NOTE: I am not arguing that any ol' "church" is ok because none are perfect. I believe however that we are called to fellowship: with the good, the bad and the ugly. One of my big gripes with the "leave the church movement" is that people want to surround themselves with people "they" like, "they" get along with, "they" relate to and call that "church". I call that the "1st church of me, myself & I"


Very well said.



BerianAardvark -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 3:27:47 AM)

Anything can be an idol....pastors, churches, denominations, dogma....any of these can replace God as the center of our worship.

Tim



earthless -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 8:30:40 AM)

A resounding yes!



stampinlady -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 12:22:42 PM)

Yes, especially when you start neglecting your family.[:'(]



bluestone -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 12:42:05 PM)

Church can be an obsession, and some pastors encourage it.



kohls356 -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 1:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon

Yepper.

For 20 yrs I was a member of a congregation that worshiped church. Church attendance, being there every single time the doors were open for every and any reason, the intimation or downright declaration that missing some function or event was a sin. Lists of "you must" and "you should" being handed down from the pulpit every Sunday. Tsk-Tsk-ing anyone who didn't stay for Sunday School or wouldn't help with one of the multitudes of fundraisers.

It was a joyless and ever increasingly demanding way to live.

Jesus? Oh, we never talked about Him.[:(]

I sincerely and fervently thank God that I am out of that atmosphere and attitude.


That sounds a lot like my former church. Although we did talk about Jesus. But the constant having to be there for every meeting, Bible study, revival, etc was too much. We even had events for the holidays and it was almost frowned upon if you chose to do something elsewhere with your family instead of being at church. If we missed it almost seemed like you needed a written excuse that would be good enough for them.



bluestone -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 1:58:26 PM)

at my old church, you were encouraged to vacation between Sundays. visiting a church while on vacation was being disloyal to the home church.

I did not pay attention to that one.[&:]



kohls356 -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/6/2008 2:01:31 PM)

Our church wasn't that bad but they did think like yours you should plan your vacation around church. But if you had to be gone you were encouraged to go to church while on vacation, which sometimes we did and sometimes we didn't.



redeemedsaint -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/7/2008 9:16:55 AM)

Yes it can be, if all of your activities center around the church and not helping out the world around you.



StephK -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/7/2008 9:31:44 AM)

You better believe it can become an idol. One church I was a member of really highlighted how the building and building program can usurp the purpose of the church. One church spent millions of dollars relocating to another part of town because of a declining neighborhood. The old campus was sufficient to meet the needs but that congregation was so inward focused they failed to see the real needs around them. Another church I was a member of also got so caught up in the building that Jesus was just an afterthought often times.

As far as individuals making church an idol that is really not that hard to do when people get caught up in the busyness that passes for worship today. I know I missed the mark at times when I got so involved with activities that I did not have time to get alone with God to find out what He wanted.



crankius -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/7/2008 11:56:03 PM)

I think many a pastor or ministry leader has found themselves making church an idol. Some serve the church OVER their families and their personal commitment to the Lord, and consider it the cost of ministry.

Partly I think this is why one of the qualifications for an elder is that he have his household in order. It's important an elder have his priorities right.

Many older pastors look back and wish that they had given more time and energy to their families and to their personal walk with the Lord.



bzirk -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/10/2008 1:10:59 PM)

Not falling into that trap has been one of the best things about my husband becoming a pastor in his middle age. Not saying all younger pastors fall into it, but I think older pastors are not as prone to it, because being a pastor is not as likely to be their chief identity. Hopefully, any pastor's (or Christian's) chief identity wil be in the Lord. I believe it's much easier to continually acknowledge this after you've been through some junk, i.e., been matured by life in some areas and realize that identity with Christ is the best way and not just because someone told you it was. Not all of us gain that kind of knowledge by 25.

Frankly, I wonder if more people shouldn't wait to be pastors until they are older. Not saying everyone should wait, but I think there are more that should. It seems that older people tend to discount the idea because they didn't start the profession when they were younger. Much of that attitude is fostered by the church, because there is too much of a view that being a pastor is just a profession. Allbeit a profession cloaked in spirituality, but looked at as a profession none the same. I guess what I'm saying is that we, the church, put too much emphasis on a young man developing the profession of ministry and not enough on wisdom that has been gained typically (not always but typically) in older people such that we cheat ourselves of some potentially wonderful pastors who didn't have to inflict their immaturity on a congregation.



Lapidoth -> RE: CAN CHURCH BE AN IDOL? (6/10/2008 1:40:59 PM)

quote:

been matured by life


Is that what it's called?
I always felt like a weiner on a stick in the fire. lol.

quote:

I wonder if more people shouldn't wait to be pastors until they are older.


There's a lot to be said about that.
I also think they ought to do "Children's Ministry" first too. lol.

quote:

a young man developing the profession of ministry and not enough on wisdom that has been gained typically (not always but typically) in older people such that we cheat ourselves of some potentially wonderful pastors who didn't have to inflict their immaturity on a congregation.


Missed this the first read around.
Guess the Children's Ministry would be a good start for the young man
going into ministry. There's just no fame and glory with the smelly darlings.
Their souls and nurturing are about the only reward. But how great it is.



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