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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:38:33 AM
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freakofnature
Posts: 734
Joined: 1/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?
What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?
quote:
quote:
Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?
What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?
And wouldn't you still need an ID to cash a check there? This doesn't wash at all.
Although I am sure that those also getting checks from the goverment have at some point needed to show ID in order to sign up for assistance?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:41:41 AM
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Random
Posts: 1103
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking.
I have spent several election days driving elderly people to their polling place. Because it is one day, there is often a well-organized campaign for this.
There is less emphasis on getting them to "the ID place" because there is not one set day to do that. But it is a good idea, assuming something is done to make the ID itself affordable.
_____________________________
"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:43:12 AM
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freakofnature
Posts: 734
Joined: 1/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking.
I have spent several election days driving elderly people to their polling place. Because it is one day, there is often a well-organized campaign for this.
There is less emphasis on getting them to "the ID place" because there is not one set day to do that. But it is a good idea, assuming something is done to make the ID itself affordable.
Maybe we can have a national "Get your ID" day, if you can show your welfare debit card/medicaid/medicare card you get an ID for free???
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:44:19 AM
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Random
Posts: 1103
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?
What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?
quote:
quote:
Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?
What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?
And wouldn't you still need an ID to cash a check there? This doesn't wash at all.
Although I am sure that those also getting checks from the goverment have at some point needed to show ID in order to sign up for assistance?
I have no idea. I have never been in a check cashing store. But based on where they are located, I would be surprised if they all had IDs.
More to the point, as someone else mentioned, many don't have bank accounts AND don't have checks to cash, so they have no need for the ID.
As for government assistance, again, I have no firsthand knowledge, but wouldn't a Social Security card suffice. Those are free, by the way.
_____________________________
"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:46:02 AM
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freakofnature
Posts: 734
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?
What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?
quote:
quote:
Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?
What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?
And wouldn't you still need an ID to cash a check there? This doesn't wash at all.
Although I am sure that those also getting checks from the goverment have at some point needed to show ID in order to sign up for assistance?
I have no idea. I have never been in a check cashing store. But based on where they are located, I would be surprised if they all had IDs.
More to the point, as someone else mentioned, many don't have bank accounts AND don't have checks to cash, so they have no need for the ID.
As for government assistance, again, I have no firsthand knowledge, but wouldn't a Social Security card suffice. Those are free, by the way.
Okay, then what is wrong with having to show then your SS Card for ID purposes. Oh, but wait, that would eliminate the illegal aliens from voting? No that wouldn't work.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:47:01 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3843
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store.
How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking. It's my understanding that you can vote absentee from the comfort of your home without showing ID. My grandmother does it. But if you can get to the poll, you should be able to get to the DMV.
If you can't afford an ID, you won't vote absentee, right? Local chapters of the two parties typically provide transportation for those that have no other way to the polls (at least in the southern cities I've lived in). But no ID, no vote.
Now, one of the conservative insinuations about voter "fraud" has to do with these election day services. Because they seem more common in urban areas and benefit poorer voters, GOP activists point to a van with voters as an example of votes being bought (I've heard that complaint personally). When I challenged the statement once, I got the "Well, if they can't get themselves there (to vote), they outghta stay home", or, "they probably got paid to vote", etc. I've also heard similar complaints about voter registration drives, though less so since GOP groups have begun doing the same thing.
I'm not saying that fraud never happens or that the ID thing cannot be made workable.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:48:44 AM
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rainbowtvp
Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store.
How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking. It's my understanding that you can vote absentee from the comfort of your home without showing ID. My grandmother does it. But if you can get to the poll, you should be able to get to the DMV.
Well, for starters, in my area most people have to go a LONG way to get to the DMV... the polling places are located in their district (usually within walking distance, definitely somewhere to which an elderly/disabled person could get a ride.
But someone shouldn't have to get a photo ID if they don't want one otherwise just so they can vote. Yes, most people have photo ids... but for people who don't drive, don't cash checks, don't drink... where is the need? It would be a waste of money and if money is tight, people shouldn't have to use it to VOTE.
Even though I have a banking account, I rarely write checks any more and I have NEVER been asked for photo id for my credit cards (not in the past 15 years, at least. All my money is direct deposited and they don't ask for id to deposit anyhow). When I do write checks it is to put something in the mail- still no need for id. I can definitely see someone not having photo id today.
But the MAIN thing for me is WHY is it necessary, when, as has been said, your grandmother and anyone else can vote without an id remotely?!? If I can do it by mail without ID, why is it such a big deal to make someone show ID in person?!?
Tara P
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:53:56 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3843
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
Okay, then what is wrong with having to show then your SS Card for ID purposes. Oh, but wait, that would eliminate the illegal aliens from voting? No that wouldn't work.
I've never seen a Social Security card with a photo. And illegals avoid going anywhere they might get busted. Paying individual "voters" is very inefficient in these times. Per capita, it's much more economical to use adveritising and other media than to pay for single votes.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:55:19 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3035
Joined: 6/8/2005
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I find nothing similar whatsoever between demanding a simple photo ID in order to vote and the requirements for southern Americans to pass tests, pay taxes, and/or answer impossible questions in order to vote. A photo ID has been a common possession in the U.S. for decades, and most people have them.
If voting is that important to the individual, the individual can get a photo ID. All I have seen or heard so far are excuses.
There is a certain sector of the population that wants everything to be made easy. Sometimes, we have to actually get out and WORK for the things that are important.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 11:59:09 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store.
How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking. It's my understanding that you can vote absentee from the comfort of your home without showing ID. My grandmother does it. But if you can get to the poll, you should be able to get to the DMV.
Well, for starters, in my area most people have to go a LONG way to get to the DMV... the polling places are located in their district (usually within walking distance, definitely somewhere to which an elderly/disabled person could get a ride.
But someone shouldn't have to get a photo ID if they don't want one otherwise just so they can vote. Yes, most people have photo ids... but for people who don't drive, don't cash checks, don't drink... where is the need? It would be a waste of money and if money is tight, people shouldn't have to use it to VOTE.
Even though I have a banking account, I rarely write checks any more and I have NEVER been asked for photo id for my credit cards (not in the past 15 years, at least. All my money is direct deposited and they don't ask for id to deposit anyhow). When I do write checks it is to put something in the mail- still no need for id. I can definitely see someone not having photo id today.
But the MAIN thing for me is WHY is it necessary, when, as has been said, your grandmother and anyone else can vote without an id remotely?!? If I can do it by mail without ID, why is it such a big deal to make someone show ID in person?!?
Tara P
I suppose it would be much easier to just have a tiny, little chip implanted under the thin skin on the back of your hand...or, alternatively, under the thin skin of your forehead...which has all your info embedded in it...bank accounts, driver's license info, medical records, etc. That would just make life so much easier!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:08:06 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5566
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
I suppose it would be much easier to just have a tiny, little chip implanted under the thin skin on the back of your hand...or, alternatively, under the thin skin of your forehead...which has all your info embedded in it...bank accounts, driver's license info, medical records, etc. That would just make life so much easier!
With all the bad Tim LaHayeism plaguing the Church, too many church members would think that would be the mark of the beast and, somehow, the blood-bought, redeemed of the Lamb could be deceived into unknowingly taking the mark and forfeiting their eternal souls...
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:13:09 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2463
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
Requiring a state driver's license or id means that they will have to go out and get one just to vote. And it isn't just the expense, but the hassle that would stop a lot of people.
And the priviledge of voting isn't worth the hassle? Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:25:08 PM
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Random
Posts: 1103
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
Source?
_____________________________
"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:32:02 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3453
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
But the MAIN thing for me is WHY is it necessary, when, as has been said, your grandmother and anyone else can vote without an id remotely?!? If I can do it by mail without ID, why is it such a big deal to make someone show ID in person?!?
I think absentee voting was put in place for exactly the reasons we're talking about: so that elderly and disabled persons who have trouble leaving home are not burdened with having to go to a polling place.
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:34:07 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5074
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store.
How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking. It's my understanding that you can vote absentee from the comfort of your home without showing ID. My grandmother does it. But if you can get to the poll, you should be able to get to the DMV.
Good point.
I had to show my photo ID the last time I voted, and my mother was the poll worker. She still made me show her my ID even though she gave birth to me and knew who I was! 
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:35:00 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1646
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
Source?
Financial expert Dave Ramsey among others.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:37:15 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5566
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
Source?
Financial expert Dave Ramsey among others.
Not true in Alabama - no lotto here. The poor have to have a car and enough money for fuel to get to a state that has lotto. BTW, have a link to support the "financial expert"?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:38:20 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5074
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
Okay, then what is wrong with having to show then your SS Card for ID purposes. Oh, but wait, that would eliminate the illegal aliens from voting? No that wouldn't work.
I tried to use my SS card as ID to get a post office box and they wouldn't accept it because too many illegal aliens have forgeries. They let me use my insurance card and my driver's license, though.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:39:46 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 168
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I find nothing similar whatsoever between demanding a simple photo ID in order to vote and the requirements for southern Americans to pass tests, pay taxes, and/or answer impossible questions in order to vote. A photo ID has been a common possession in the U.S. for decades, and most people have them.
If voting is that important to the individual, the individual can get a photo ID. All I have seen or heard so far are excuses.
As already pointed out in this thread, 1 in 10 Americans don't have IDs. While you are correct in saying that "most people have them," Democracy isn't just for 90% of citizens.
If a person has to pay to get an ID (and they do) and you need an ID to vote, than how is that different than having to pay to vote?
Voter ID bills are really about voter suppression. The current system of registration and checking signatures works. And if checking signatures DOESN'T work, it is most likely because of human error--which would still be there in the case of ID checkers.
If it is so important for people to have IDs to vote--simply insert a provision into the bill that any person unable to afford an ID will be provided one for free. But they won't do that, because it isn't about having honest elections, its about keeping people away from the polls.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:44:34 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2463
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
Source?
Go to the lotto headquarters of most states. The poorer sections of towns and cities have the most outlets. A few months ago I was doing some volunteer work at a local food pantry. When I pushed the grocery cart out to her car, she saw the number on the cart and said she was going to use it for her daily pick.
So I stand by what I said, most of the poor have the money to spend on an ID card. They just prefer to spend it on stuff like booze, cigs, and the lotto Truth hurts.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:45:37 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5074
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
If it is so important for people to have IDs to vote--simply insert a provision into the bill that any person unable to afford an ID will be provided one for free. But they won't do that, because it isn't about having honest elections, its about keeping people away from the polls.
That's what the government normally does when they pass a bill requiring something, whether it be vaccinations, car seats, bike helmets, or digital converters for your TV. I'm sure they'd make provision for those who needed financial assistance in obtaining a photo ID if they passed a bill requiring it.
quote:
I want people like your mom, trained by your mom, in this state -- Washington. This place is not just notorious for foul voting procedures -- it is the poster child for them.
 My mom's always been a stickler for details. She always read the fine print and everytime we needed anything signed would read the whole thing. Used to drive me crazy when I wanted to go someplace and she wouldn't just sign the liability waiver without reading it through. 
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:46:37 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3035
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
As already pointed out in this thread, 1 in 10 Americans don't have IDs. While you are correct in saying that "most people have them," Democracy isn't just for 90% of citizens.
If a person has to pay to get an ID (and they do) and you need an ID to vote, than how is that different than having to pay to vote?
Voter ID bills are really about voter suppression. The current system of registration and checking signatures works. And if checking signatures DOESN'T work, it is most likely because of human error--which would still be there in the case of ID checkers.
If it is so important for people to have IDs to vote--simply insert a provision into the bill that any person unable to afford an ID will be provided one for free. But they won't do that, because it isn't about having honest elections, its about keeping people away from the polls.
Voting is not a RIGHT; it is a privilege. If the person finds it is not important enough to do whatever is necessary for that privilege, they do not value that privilege.
As I said, everyone wants to make everything easy. Some things are important enough that we must step out of our desire for "easy" and do the hard work for that privilege. -- Like get transportation to the place where we spend a little to enjoy the privilege to vote, like stay out of prison, like be a true citizen instead of a goof-off.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:51:40 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1646
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
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I don't see the big deal with requiring a photo ID to vote. People have been talking about the "right" to vote but forget that with that right (and any other rights) comes responsibility. If you are not responsible enough to register to vote, get an ID, inform the board of elections if your address changes, or be totally clueless as to where your polling place is located, then you forfeit that right through your own negligence.
My Grandmother is 87 years old, lives on a fixed income, and no longer has a drivers license. However, she is registered to vote, does have a state photo ID, updated her registration when she sold her house and moved into an apartment, knows where her polling place is, and arranges transportation to and from the polling place every election. And she never made it past the 4th grade and has never made more than $25K a year her entire life. If she can follow the proper procedure then anyone can. It is not that difficult and it is not unreasonable.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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