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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 12:52:54 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3642
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From: a mother who let me live
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Ask those who had to work hard, in my lifetime, to be able to vote. Ask those who fought for them to get that privilege, in my lifetime, some of who died to assure that privilege. Ask those who are in prison and cannot vote (except in Washington, where some of them do vote).
It is a privilege.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 2:27:16 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3971
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
Source?
Financial expert Dave Ramsey among others.
And Dave Ramsey's source?
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 2:30:07 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1507
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From: Kentucky
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I'd have to ask him. He has all of the statistics, but you don't need statistics. Just go to any place that sells lottery tickets and see how many poor people come in and waste their money in the hopes of getting rich quick.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 2:30:15 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
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quote:
Amendment XV.
Section. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
The constitution calls it a right. Maybe you should ask it.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 2:49:10 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3642
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From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
Amendment XV.
Section. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
The constitution calls it a right. Maybe you should ask it.
Regardless of what the constitution SAYS, history within my lifetime has made it a PRIVILEGE, whether or not we want to face it. Some may claim I flunked civics, but apparently, some here must have flunked either reading or recent history. I did write above why it is now a PRIVILEGE.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 2:51:31 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
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Fortunately, we are not governed by your reading of history, who types things in ALL CAPS, or even popular opinion. We are governed by law.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:07:38 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5657
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Fortunately, we are not governed by your reading of history, who types things in ALL CAPS, or even popular opinion. We are governed by law.
And that law ought to read; Must have certifird photo ID to vote; period.
Thsnks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:08:58 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3971
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Regardless of what the constitution SAYS,
That speaks volumes.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:09:07 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1507
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From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Fortunately, we are not governed by your reading of history, who types things in ALL CAPS, or even popular opinion. We are governed by law.
And that law ought to read; Must have certifird photo ID to vote; period.
Thsnks
RC
Agreed!!!
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:12:43 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
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That would have been a funny thing to put in the constitution at a time when nobody had "certified photo IDs"
Again, a voter ID act would not be a problem if it included a provision to make sure that everybody had an ID. But this isn't happening, because the point is not to make sure only citizens vote--that already happens. The point is to have less poor people vote. Republicans are sponsoring this because they know that poor people tend to vote for Dems.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:23:08 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1507
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From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
That would have been a funny thing to put in the constitution at a time when nobody had "certified photo IDs"
Again, a voter ID act would not be a problem if it included a provision to make sure that everybody had an ID. But this isn't happening, because the point is not to make sure only citizens vote--that already happens. The point is to have less poor people vote. Republicans are sponsoring this because they know that poor people tend to vote for Dems.
I have to disagree on a few things. Some poor people vote for the Democrats but a large number of them (including me - average income for the past 5 years is less than $20K) do not.
The purpose of the photo ID is to avoid voter fraud. Each person should be entitled to one vote, not multiple votes. It is also used to prevent illegal aliens from voting, and as I recall, there were some instances where that happened in the past few elections.
Another problem that occurred was that people went to the wrong polling place, sometimes in a completely different district from the one in which they lived. Had they been allowed to vote there with no questions asked, they could have influenced the outcome of elections (state and local offices) for which they should not have been voting in the first place. Requiring a photo ID would make it easier for the poll workers to inform people of the proper location for them to vote.
An easy fix, since the objection seems to deal with the poor, would be for each person to get a photo ID when they go to the Welfare of Social Security office.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:23:26 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3642
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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Oh, good night, you're a trip, Phunks. Don't you know what has happened in the last 100 years? The people who died for trying to assure the "right" to vote? The people who were kept from the polls because others did not WANT them to vote? In the USA? Amazing.
Oh, yeah -- and Cow
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:37:56 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
Joined: 2/17/2008
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It's funny you should mention that. 100 years ago, blacks and women couldn't vote. It's amazing that we are taking steps to keep some of them from voting again.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:39:38 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
Joined: 2/17/2008
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quote:
An easy fix, since the objection seems to deal with the poor, would be for each person to get a photo ID when they go to the Welfare of Social Security office.
Agreed. There are lots of "easy fixes" that fight fraud and allow everybody to vote.
But none of the proposals make use of such easy fixes. That's why I believe that it's not really about fighting fraud.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:40:57 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
JimboFletch
How much of that are YOU willing to give up to just vote for candidates with not enough imagination to know how you live - rent, feeding your family, and losing a day's pay from a heartless boss?
It sure is easy to expect others to sacrifice necessities when your stomach is full in an easy chair with air conditioning going.
Jimbo, I glad to see you know so much about my situation that you can accuse me of being incompassionate. I have been there and done that. I have several very good friends who are still there, living in extended stay hotels, sometimes sleeping in cars because they couldn't make rent for the week. Working 2 - 3 jobs trying to make ends meet. So yes I do know what it is like and I do know what it is to give up somethings when something else is more important.
And to your point about the heartless boss who won't let them have a day to get an ID, well it's these same heartless bosses who also give my friends a hard time when they want time off to go vote so rather than fight with their boss and risk losing a job they so badly need they don't vote.
quote:
cow451
There is poor and poor. The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store. NO state has any provision for waiving the cost of having an ID. Those of us with drivers licenses don't pay anything extra to use it as a voter ID. The callousness of Christians is sometimes amazing. Or maybe it's just not having lived on the edge of society.
Again, you assume that those of us who are for a required photo ID are just being callous, that we've never lived on the edge that we are all just fat cats stuffing our faces full of Bon Bon's laying on the couch watching T.V. Amazing.
Yes there are elderly and disabled poor that can't just hop in a car, but they have family and or friends who help them get to the doctors, the grocery store, the pharmacist, etc. I have watched my father personally care for his mother in law, driving her to the store for food or medicine, driving to the doctors office, all the while patiently waiting for her to take care of her business.
You make it sound like these elderly and disabled poor are just sitting there at home, unable to do anything or go anywhere. Well someone is helping to take care of these people and if voting is an important issue to them then so would be getting an ID so they could vote. They managed to register didn't they?
quote:
freakofnature
Okay, then what is wrong with having to show then your SS Card for ID purposes. Oh, but wait, that would eliminate the illegal aliens from voting? No that wouldn't work.
Actually no this wouldn't keep them from voting, it's not keeping them from working. Regardless of popular belief not every polling station checks signatures, names, registration etc. That is why I said that to insure against voter fraud ID cards were just a part of the picture, better training and better enforcement of the rules are necessary. A lot of the smaller polling places in rural areas just hand you a ballot and point you to a booth. I have seen this firsthand. They may ask if you are registered or which party but they don't verify it.
quote:
Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
Source?
My friends are a good source, as I mentioned above several are living hand to mouth with very little to their name, yet they buy cigarettes, beer, lottery tickets and yes even drugs sometimes. I'm not saying this is true for all poor people but the truth is a lot of poor people look to something to help them cope and a lot of them turn to alcohol. I've seen it, I've lived it.
quote:
PhunkD
If it is so important for people to have IDs to vote--simply insert a provision into the bill that any person unable to afford an ID will be provided one for free. But they won't do that, because it isn't about having honest elections, its about keeping people away from the polls.
There are a lot of laws that get passed that require citizens to do something and sometimes that something costs money and a lot of times I can't afford the money but I have to pay it anyway. You are now required to wear a helmet in most states when riding a motorcycle but the government didn't pay for the helmet. You are now required to insure you car in order to be able to drive it, you didn't used to, but the government doesn't pay for my premiums. So this is an invalid argument.
quote:
Again, a voter ID act would not be a problem if it included a provision to make sure that everybody had an ID. But this isn't happening, because the point is not to make sure only citizens vote--that already happens. The point is to have less poor people vote. Republicans are sponsoring this because they know that poor people tend to vote for Dems.
Strange, seems that in 2000 and 2004 it was the Dems who were crying fraud and disenfranchisement.
Democracy Imperiled
Some excerpts:
"Our nation may be on the brink of repeating the 2000 Florida election debacle, but this time in several states, with allegations of voter fraud, intimidation and manipulation of voting machines added to the generalized chaos that sent our last presidential contest into overtime"
"At least eight of the nineteen hijackers who attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were actually able to register to vote in either Virginia or Florida while they made their deadly preparations for 9/11."
"The 2000 election resulted in some modest reforms, such as the federal Help America Vote Act, but the implementation has been so slow. Only $670 million of the promised $3.9 billion in grants to upgrade technology, cull voter rolls and enhance training had been dispersed to the states as of May 2004. This means that the nation's voting systems will be in no better shape this November than they were in 2000, when about 2 percent of all votes for president nationwide weren't counted for one reason or another, the vast majority because of voter error or outdated machines."
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:41:43 PM
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IonMoon
Posts: 920
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
I'd have to ask him. He has all of the statistics, but you don't need statistics. Just go to any place that sells lottery tickets and see how many poor people come in and waste their money in the hopes of getting rich quick.
And you can tell they are poor... how exactly?
The VAST majority of the people I know who play the lottery on a regular basis are all middle class. I do know that gambling can make people poor... and that some poor people waste money on things like cigarettes, alcohol, and gambling. But I do not believe 1) that most people who gamble are poor OR 2) that most people who are poor gamble.
Tara P
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:44:17 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4976
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: online
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quote:
The point is to have less poor people vote. Republicans are sponsoring this because they know that poor people tend to vote for Dems.
Noooo, the point is to prevent people from voting more than once. I grew up below the poverty level and my whole family always voted Republican, and so did all of our church-going, single-income, homeschooling, conservative friends.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:49:19 PM
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Random
Posts: 1035
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
There are a lot of laws that get passed that require citizens to do something and sometimes that something costs money and a lot of times I can't afford the money but I have to pay it anyway. You are now required to wear a helmet in most states when riding a motorcycle but the government didn't pay for the helmet. You are now required to insure you car in order to be able to drive it, you didn't used to, but the government doesn't pay for my premiums. So this is an invalid argument.
Neither riding a motorcycle, not driving a car are Constitutionally guaranteed rights. So this is an invalid argument.
_____________________________
"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:59:01 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1507
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
I'd have to ask him. He has all of the statistics, but you don't need statistics. Just go to any place that sells lottery tickets and see how many poor people come in and waste their money in the hopes of getting rich quick.
The "fact" that most lottery tickets are bought by poor people is NOT the same as the claim that most poor people buy lottery tickets.
Most dogs have four legs, but most animals with four legs aren't dogs.
Go to the small local grocery stores in major cities. You don't see any middle class folks walking in there to buy lottery tickets. You see the poor from the neighborhood spending their last few dollars on the very small hope that they will hit the big time. I've seen it and I've done it. Lotteries are nothing more than a tax on the poor and the uneducated.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 3:59:53 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4976
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: online
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I think you can get free helmets for your kids. Insurance--now that's one law they did pass that we have to pay for whether or not we want to, but like Random pointed out, they aren't requiring you drive, just requiring you to have insurance if you do. You are liable for damages you might cause if you hit someone, and so liability insurance is all that's required.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:01:42 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1333
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Most of the poor drops $10 easily on the lotto each month.
Source?
Financial expert Dave Ramsey among others.
And Dave Ramsey's source?
I grew up in Detroit...where people had NOTHING...yet, they always had at least $20 or more a week to "play the numbers"....
not to mention, get nice "rims" for their car, electronics (cable TV, big screen TVs, stereos, cell phones), designer "hip hop" clothing, and other "luxuries"....
democrats don't WANT the ID law, because it removes their one excuse to yell "VOTER FRAUD", should they see the need to do so (like whenever a republican wins an election)....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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