RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is it possible for men and women to just be friends?


Yes
  76% (57)
No
  24% (18)


Total Votes : 75
(last vote on : 7/26/2008 1:38:48 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

futuremartyr -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/11/2008 12:46:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

Is it possible for men and women to just be friends?

I am not talking about a sexual relationship in any way. I'm talking strictly about friends without any "benefits" shall we say.


Possible but dangerous if married.



frances67 -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/12/2008 10:28:27 PM)

to answer the initial question...yes.



imit8him -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/13/2008 6:00:39 AM)

Hey Torch,

I'm not sure if you've read The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis, but his chapters on friendship and romantic love deal with this subject. Granted it's not directly from the Bible, but he is such a great Christian luminary that I take his word on most subjects. I highly recommend that book!

(Lewis' basic view, though, is that men and women normally cannot be close friends. They do not have enough in common and also the complications that arise from being emotionally intimate are not healthy - if not downright sinful - given the lack of a marriage union. In other words, there is such a thing that can be called "emotional cheating" in addition to "sexual cheating" in a marriage relationship. Just as sexual initimacy ought to be reserved for marriage, one can also argue that emotional intimacy should too. It's sort of like..how would you feel if your wife constantly called a male friend to talk about her intimate and personal problems and thoughts? Not cool right? But those are often the kinds of things friends do with one another.

....Lewis' famous words on the subject matter are also super hilarious. He says that unless a man and woman are mutually physically "repulsive" to one another, that they most likely cannot share a close friendship for fear of being attracted to one another and having all the complications that come with that, in addition to the emotional intimacy in close friendship. Aside from the above exception about two people thinking each other are ugly - so as to have no hidden or ulterior motives in a relationship - he also says that married people can be friends...Singles generally cannot. That is because with a married person there is also no confusion about where you stand. ......This also assumes you respect that the person is married! ...It's been a couple years since I've read the book, but I'd definitely recommend it and also to check for any inaccuracies in my memory. He has a very length section on this topic.)

-Imit [:)]



stimulus -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/13/2008 10:57:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imit8him

Hey Torch,

I'm not sure if you've read The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis, but his chapters on friendship and romantic love deal with this subject. Granted it's not directly from the Bible, but he is such a great Christian luminary that I take his word on most subjects. I highly recommend that book!

(Lewis' basic view, though, is that men and women normally cannot be close friends. They do not have enough in common and also the complications that arise from being emotionally intimate are not healthy - if not downright sinful - given the lack of a marriage union. In other words, there is such a thing that can be called "emotional cheating" in addition to "sexual cheating" in a marriage relationship. Just as sexual initimacy ought to be reserved for marriage, one can also argue that emotional intimacy should too. It's sort of like..how would you feel if your wife constantly called a male friend to talk about her intimate and personal problems and thoughts? Not cool right? But those are often the kinds of things friends do with one another.

....Lewis' famous words on the subject matter are also super hilarious. He says that unless a man and woman are mutually physically "repulsive" to one another, that they most likely cannot share a close friendship for fear of being attracted to one another and having all the complications that come with that, in addition to the emotional intimacy in close friendship. Aside from the above exception about two people thinking each other are ugly - so as to have no hidden or ulterior motives in a relationship - he also says that married people can be friends...Singles generally cannot. That is because with a married person there is also no confusion about where you stand. ......This also assumes you respect that the person is married! ...It's been a couple years since I've read the book, but I'd definitely recommend it and also to check for any inaccuracies in my memory. He has a very length section on this topic.)

-Imit [:)]


I just read quite a bit of that section of the book. While Lewis does say that men and women don't have enough in common to truly be friends, I'm not sure he would still hold that view if alive today. He writes at length about how men and women in his day didn't have enough in common because of different education levels, careers, and pursuits. He calls companionship - working together, studying together, doing something together - the "matrix" from which true friendship emerges, and the separation of the sexes during his day is a big part of why he says men and women can't be friends.



Hislittleone -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/15/2008 12:41:08 AM)

I voted yes but caution should be used and proper boundaries set if one or both parties are married. My dh and I don't have friends of the opposite sex (meaning exclusive friendships) and we would never have a friendship with someone we used to be romantically involved with. We just think that's too risky to even consider doing. Not to mention that it would make both of us very uncomfortable to know that the other one was talking/visiting with a person they'd shared emotional and/or physical intimacy with.



manda59 -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/18/2008 7:05:56 PM)

TorchHeart,

I hope you don't mind me mentioning it - but I noticed your prayer thread HERE

I am wanting to be gentle with you, as you are clearly upset. However, it would seem to me that the intensity of emotions you express in that thread appear indicate a personal involvement that may well have crossed a boundary and could be unhealthy. You even said that you were "no better than her ex-husband". For a married man, it's not at all appropriate to be comparing yourself to someone else's husband, of even thinking of yourself in those terms, and to me indicate a potentially dangerous situation.

How does your wife feel about your friendship with this woman?

I am not saying that anything is going on between you and her - just that your level of attachment to her seems, IMO, to be excessive for someone who is just a friend, and could easily be diverting your energies - instead of focussing on your wife and your child. I would ask you to question whether or not it was even appropriate to have been having such an emotionally charged conversation with this woman, one on one, without your wife having been there too.



Hislittleone -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/18/2008 9:20:50 PM)

I just read that post and completely agree with Manda. If my husband got anywhere near this emotionally attached to another woman I'd be extremely angry and hurt.

Your wife is right to feel uneasy about your friendship with this other woman as you seem to be too emotionally invested with her.



bzirk -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 12:43:53 AM)

I agree with the concern Manda expressed. There seems to be a lot more concern and care about the feelings of the ex girlfriend than concern for the feelings of the wife. I think most wives would find the comparision of those two posts disturbing.

Oh, well, this is just a forum of anonymous people who don't really know this guy, and certainly he's free to blow off what we're all saying.

But it might behoove him to look at the passion he conveys in his post about his ex-girlfriend compared with the post about his wife. I have no way of knowing if it means anything. Only this man does. But I do know that if a wife is hesitant about her husband's relationship with another female who is not a relative, then he ought to respect that boundary. About that simple -- no matter how the relationship with the other woman ended or how close they were. The same goes for a wife whose husband objects to an unseemly relationship with another man.



Ninjaearth -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 7:50:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

Is it possible for men and women to just be friends?

I am not talking about a sexual relationship in any way. I'm talking strictly about friends without any "benefits" shall we say.

Definitely. My best friend ( a female) and I have been friends 13 years, this year, since middle school. Granted there were some inner feelings at first, but we have never ever crossed the line of just being more than friends. This has caused some ambiguity among our past relationships, at least for me (some for her too) cause some women thought we'd make a good couple. I didn't ever really think so; now that I have known her for a long time I have come to the conclusion that she doesn't have a relationship with Christ, so unless He saves her there's no way we'd end up together. But, I like it like this (except for her being lost) that we have a close friendship and that it's lasted this long. She's not the only female friend I have though; I don't have many as I used to have, but I know a few. So, yeah, it's definitely possible. Like everything else, all has a standard and communication is key.



deermousie -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 12:30:39 PM)

This has been an issue in my face, and my husband and I have spent several weeks talking about this because of what we have observed in other people's lives.

Guys who have never really talked to each other can watch a football game together and say they are best friends. Gals can talk about the deepest issues of their hearts and say they are best friends. Put one of those guys with one of those gals and you get a trainwreck.

What happened?

We're wired differently. We gals want to talk an issue to death and maybe play with fantasy, and the guys are looking for a dragon to kill (a challenge!) and mission accomplished, let's go get a pizza. DH tells me this is so a man can focus on the lion about to eat his family and not be distracted. But Scripture says for a man to live with his wife in an understanding way, which puts the heavy lifting on him I think to realize that his wife needs to talk and wants to deal with the feelings he is sure he doesn't have. It also commands him to love her.

Scripture tells women to be sure to respect their husbands.

So men need to be told to love, and women need to be told to respect (within the confines of marriage). God wouldn't have commanded this if we didn't have a problem with it. I think the field of relationships of men with women is covered with landmines.

Part of the problem, and I'm being as delicate as I can here, is that one of the five ego drives God put in Adam and shows up in every mature breathing male is the one to reproduce. Guys desire to obey God in this and differ only in how they go about it: pursue this goal dishonorably or get married and be honorable about it. Understand me when I say there is nothing wrong with honorable pursuit of this! It is God given and part of His wonderful plan. But it complicates the non-marriage relationships.

So in a unmarried guy/gal friendship, there is an underlying push for something more. Our society not only doesn't give unmarried people protection from selfishness or just naivity in this area (they used to have chaperones, or the father went places with his daughters) but popular culture (movies, etc.) glorifies selfishness and self-indulgence. And without consequences, too! Amazing! ...not. A non-Christian society is morally adrift in a sea of no absolutes.

So my personal take is: yeah, men and women can be casual friends, but I doubt they can be deep friends, or at least not for long. There are differences in definitions and there are landmines. And most of us aren't well-versed in the various expectations.

I had to get married to find out how my husband's mind worked. Understand that he is an excellent husband and father and a strong Christian whom I love to death (and until death), but my mother never told me about some of this. I doubt she knew. I'm really glad I married him, but I caution single people to understand guys don't think like gals, and that is not a moral problem but a practical one.

And let me finish this by saying, my husband is my best friend. But I don't it could have happened if we weren't married.



WesP -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 2:07:18 PM)

quote:

Part of the problem, and I'm being as delicate as I can here, is that one of the five ego drives God put in Adam and shows up in every mature breathing male is the one to reproduce. Guys desire to obey God in this and differ only in how they go about it: pursue this goal dishonorably or get married and be honorable about it. Understand me when I say there is nothing wrong with honorable pursuit of this! It is God given and part of His wonderful plan. But it complicates the non-marriage relationships.


JFTR, every friend I have with one exception is female. Two of them I dated more than a decade ago. I have no desire to have any relationship with any of them that is not platonic.



TorchHeart -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 3:10:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

TorchHeart,

I hope you don't mind me mentioning it - but I noticed your prayer thread HERE

I am wanting to be gentle with you, as you are clearly upset. However, it would seem to me that the intensity of emotions you express in that thread appear indicate a personal involvement that may well have crossed a boundary and could be unhealthy. You even said that you were "no better than her ex-husband". For a married man, it's not at all appropriate to be comparing yourself to someone else's husband, of even thinking of yourself in those terms, and to me indicate a potentially dangerous situation.

How does your wife feel about your friendship with this woman?

I am not saying that anything is going on between you and her - just that your level of attachment to her seems, IMO, to be excessive for someone who is just a friend, and could easily be diverting your energies - instead of focussing on your wife and your child. I would ask you to question whether or not it was even appropriate to have been having such an emotionally charged conversation with this woman, one on one, without your wife having been there too.


I'm not going to take the time to dispell all the conclussions that have been suddenly jumped to in this thread after manda59's post, simply because I'm on the job, currently.

These two situations are NOT related to one another. In the thread manda59 mentioned, my comparison to my friend's ex-husband isn't a reflection on my feelings for her, but rather how he's been acting in response to the person she's currently involved with. Both of us have objected to the relationship, but for different reasons: He's and obsessive jerk who still thinks he can dominate her life. I'm more concerned about some things regarding him that she's told me about him... and I finally let loose with some opinions of my own that I should've kept in check. I went WAY out of bounds with some things I said to her, and genuinely thought I'd killed the relationship off.

YES, my wife does know about this and hasn't objected to what was said..



bzirk -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 3:35:38 PM)

I guess what got my attention is the very emotional post you made about your relationship with this woman when compared to the posts about your relationship with your wife. Granted, the other was a prayer, and I don't really know the situation and the manner of your posts may mean nothing. I totally understand that. Just letting you know that those things can be misconstrued, and by your wife as well. If there is nothing to it, and your wife does understand, then great. If she is having trouble with some things, then you might want to rethink your demeanor when it comes to this area.

Blessings.



TorchHeart -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 3:48:26 PM)

Not a problem. I can totally see where that came from.

Which post with the relationship with my wife are you referring to? The one in this thread, or are there other ones?



deermousie -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 4:08:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
JFTR, every friend I have with one exception is female. Two of them I dated more than a decade ago. I have no desire to have any relationship with any of them that is not platonic.


That's fine, and I have no problem with that nor do I disbelieve you. But the exception does not nullify the average. It just means the bell curve has ends (I hope that makes sense).

I hope that no one is thinking I'm casting aspersions on guys in any way (and I took pains to make this plain). I'm not dissing you, either, WesP.



WesP -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 4:14:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
JFTR, every friend I have with one exception is female. Two of them I dated more than a decade ago. I have no desire to have any relationship with any of them that is not platonic.


That's fine, and I have no problem with that nor do I disbelieve you. But the exception does not nullify the average. It just means the bell curve has ends (I hope that makes sense).

I hope that no one is thinking I'm casting aspersions on guys in any way (and I took pains to make this plain). I'm not dissing you, either, WesP.


No worries. I did not take offense. I was just trying to provide an example of someone who has no desire to be ruled by physical desires, etc. In today's society, extramarital affairs are commonplace and acceptable to the masses. It is very sad.



bzirk -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 5:22:02 PM)

I agree that men and women can be friends, but with a proviso that they do need to aware that they can fall into behaviors that often are driven by the way the Lord created them to be. In other words, men will tend to be attracted to women and vice versa -- even if there is no desire to have an affair or sin in any way.

All that aside, men and women being friends when they are single is not the same as when they're married. I might have eaten lunch with a single male friend by myself before I was married and not thought a thing of it. Today, I would be more circumspect because I am married.

TorchHeart,

I was referring to the posts in this thread and the prayer thread only. I don't know about anything else.



deermousie -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/19/2008 9:27:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk

I agree that men and women can be friends, but with a proviso that they do need to aware that they can fall into behaviors that often are driven by the way the Lord created them to be. In other words, men will tend to be attracted to women and vice versa -- even if there is no desire to have an affair or sin in any way.

All that aside, men and women being friends when they are single is not the same as when they're married. I might have eaten lunch with a single male friend by myself before I was married and not thought a thing of it. Today, I would be more circumspect because I am married.


I think you said it better (and shorter) than I did, Bzirk (BTW, I love your name!).



TorchHeart -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/20/2008 9:32:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk



TorchHeart,

I was referring to the posts in this thread and the prayer thread only. I don't know about anything else.


Oh. I was wondering because I posted in another thread about how long we've been married, and I didn't want that taken the wrong way either.

I make a lot of jokes about my marriage (I'm actually working on becoming a stand-up comic, and marriage is a topic I love to play with).



creationtalk -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/22/2008 3:06:58 PM)

quote:

make a lot of jokes about my marriage (I'm actually working on becoming a stand-up comic, and marriage is a topic I love to play with).


I'd be careful with this one and make sure that your wife sees them as jokes as well. "Jokes" can be very hurtful since they work best when there is an element of or the appearance of truth in them.

(One man--radio commentator-- joked that talking on radio was a lot like talking to his wife...you are staring at a blank wall talking as if there's someone there.... She didn't see it as a joke; they ended up divorced.)



vikingfan -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/22/2008 7:41:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk

I agree that men and women can be friends, but with a proviso that they do need to aware that they can fall into behaviors that often are driven by the way the Lord created them to be. In other words, men will tend to be attracted to women and vice versa -- even if there is no desire to have an affair or sin in any way.

All that aside, men and women being friends when they are single is not the same as when they're married. I might have eaten lunch with a single male friend by myself before I was married and not thought a thing of it. Today, I would be more circumspect because I am married.

TorchHeart,

I was referring to the posts in this thread and the prayer thread only. I don't know about anything else.


Agreed...this is a very different question depending on the people in question's marital status. As one who is single, this is easy to do, although I have female friends who have gotten married and the friendship has ceased, as it should (since I didn't know the guy).



MamaPyratekk -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/22/2008 8:42:05 PM)

Agreed! Especially with the part I bolded :)
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissInnocent

Yes men and women can be JUST friends. However I would be very offended if my fella remained friends with someone he'd been intimate with. If I had been msashua's husband...well I am not the kinda person that would end up married to someone who kept someone they'd been intimate with close even just as a friend. It's just not for me. If others can deal with it great. For the OP, as many have said your wife should be more important than your ex. If she's not comfy with you contacting your ex then why are you doing it? It's beyond disrespectful.



TorchHeart -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/22/2008 9:58:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: creationtalk

quote:

make a lot of jokes about my marriage (I'm actually working on becoming a stand-up comic, and marriage is a topic I love to play with).


I'd be careful with this one and make sure that your wife sees them as jokes as well. "Jokes" can be very hurtful since they work best when there is an element of or the appearance of truth in them.

(One man--radio commentator-- joked that talking on radio was a lot like talking to his wife...you are staring at a blank wall talking as if there's someone there.... She didn't see it as a joke; they ended up divorced.)



I try a lot of my material out on her. So far, she's liked a lot of it. Marriage isn't my only subject. I hit on talk-shows, fantasy football, creation "science," and several other topics. Hopefully, I'll be ready to start performing some of them this fall.



preserved -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/23/2008 9:22:36 AM)

If your wife is uncomfortable with the friendship you have with your ex-girlfriend...You need to break it off...Sorry...You have placed your wife in an uncomfortable situation...The ex-girlfriend apparently has no respect for your wife as well?



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? (6/23/2008 1:54:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

If your wife is uncomfortable with the friendship you have with your ex-girlfriend...You need to break it off...Sorry...You have placed your wife in an uncomfortable situation...The ex-girlfriend apparently has no respect for your wife as well?

I am a single woman and I have always had more guy friends than girl friends. My ex husband always had more girl friends than guy friends and for some reason that always made me uneasy. He was also friends with his most his ex girlfriends. I had every reason to be uneasy because he was in a long term relationship while we were married with one women he had previously dated. She knew we were married and didn't seem to care too much.

So as a woman with men as friends, I make it a point to make sure his wife, or even his girlfriend if he's not married, are comfortable with the friendship. If she isn't, out of respect for her I will cease any private conversations. No texting, no IMing, no emails to his seperate account, no phone calls unless she's present....stuff like that.

I agree with those who said you need to put your relationship with your wife ahead of your friend or you could very well be sending signals that don't exist and causing a HUGE strain in your marriage.



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