RE: living together (Full Version)

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Kat_D -> RE: living together (6/9/2008 11:03:00 AM)

38 "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." -Mark 14

14 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren." -James 1

9..."nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents..." I Corinthians 10

To the OP: Besides the appearance of evil which should be, in and of itself, a significant deterrent, stop and think of it this way: If you move in with a member of the opposite sex you are gambling...risking your morals in the hopes that you'll come out on the winning side, and we all know gamblers rarely win, so why take the chance? Why put yourself in that position? You may not have feelings or a desire for this person now, but you have no way of knowing if that might develop in a living situation.

Don't do it...it's not worth the risk.



Kat_D -> RE: living together (6/9/2008 11:05:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fist.sensei

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I brought it up, Shane. I made that point when I quoted Matthew Henry's exposition of the verse (I Thess. 5):

"We should therefore abstain from evil, and all appearances of evil, from sin, and that which looks like sin, leads to it, and borders upon it. He who is not shy of the appearances of sin, who shuns not the occasions of sin, and who avoids not the temptations and approaches to sin, will not long abstain from the actual commission of sin."


And I already refuted it, and you ignore further posts of mine because they are contrary to your own "logic".

[:D][:D][:D]



mch3172 -> RE: living together (6/9/2008 11:19:41 AM)

quote:

You completely miss my point.


I don't think I do, but I'll let it go since I prefer discussion to an argument. I think the real point here is our testimony as the church in a fallen world, as ambassadors of Jesus Christ. Make no mistake, people are watching us. Such is the prevalence of premarital sex, and cohabitation as an alternative to marriage (up 1,000 % since 1960 according to the US Census), that the natural assumption of both nonbelievers and believers will assume some hanky-panky is going on. In my own experience, it was hard enough convincing non-Christian friends that my (at the time) fiancee and I abstained from sex until marriage, without giving ANY cause for them to think otherwise. So, in keeping with your earlier call not to let secular standards determine Christian ethics, keeping unmarried men and women living apart is a way in which we set ourselves apart in a fallen world that believes these arrangements are acceptable.

To the group at large: have any studies been done on this issue, as far as how many people cohabit without having sex? Any searches I've done on cohabitation deal exclusively with sexual relationships.



DarleneSchreiber -> RE: living together (6/9/2008 12:40:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

38 "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." -Mark 14

14 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren." -James 1

9..."nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents..." I Corinthians 10

To the OP: Besides the appearance of evil which should be, in and of itself, a significant deterrent, stop and think of it this way: If you move in with a member of the opposite sex you are gambling...risking your morals in the hopes that you'll come out on the winning side, and we all know gamblers rarely win, so why take the chance? Why put yourself in that position? You may not have feelings or a desire for this person now, but you have no way of knowing if that might develop in a living situation.

Don't do it...it's not worth the risk.


Amen and thank you! And, I'll add this...I asked in another post (which went unanswered as it will here) who among us can look temptation (or evil) in the eye and win? Did Peter? How confident was he?

Hmmmmmmmm..........I, for one, would never even consider the thought that I am further along in my walk than Peter was! And he even had the One that mastered temptation right with him, in bodily form!



jaimestarcross -> RE: living together (6/10/2008 2:52:22 PM)

I would be cautious about living with any one regardless of their sex.... I just know of and have experienced how roommates end up costing you more money.... I've experienced getting stuck with bills to pay when my roommate took off on me!
I've heard tons of other friends who have experienced the same thing!

If you want to save on money rent a place you can afford on your own - even if it's living in your parents home or in a basement apartment. I had a small mobile home that I could afford on my own - that way, I didn't have to worry about roommates stiffing me on bills/rent or stealing from me. You can also become a live-in: housekeeper, nanny, personal assistant, care aide - there are agencies around that are seeking individuals who are willing to live-in and get paid a good salary and you have scheduled time off.



Bro_Shane -> RE: living together (6/10/2008 3:03:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fist.sensei

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
OK, I think something people are not focusing on here is something that is quite simple. If you put a man in close proximity to a woman where they are alone for extended periods of time, even if there is no initial attraction, the man will at least think about having a physical relationship. All this talk about "platonic" relationships may seem on the up and up for women, but for heterosexual men that still have a modicum or hormonal drive it is nonsense. Men desire women.


I guess it isn't the case for you, but I don't want to sleep with every woman I meet. Physically my hormone levels are where they should be (according to my last physical). Perhaps for men who can't segregate "women" from "sex", but I feel sorry for someone who can't do that and experience the wonderful friends that women make.

quote:


And, yes, if two people of the same sex live in an area populated by a large homosexual community, the same standard would apply.


So now we are letting "secular" standards apply to "christian" ethics? And what is somebody in these areas supposed to do? Do you realize you've now condemned them either way?

quote:


Men are pigs, dogs, and apt to wallow in the flesh at the first chance they get. It's part of our fallen nature.


Perhaps you think of yourself as such, but I know very different of "men" in general. And if this statement were true, then every marriage would be apt to infidelity, and every man a fornicator because there are plenty of chances for every man to "wallow in the flesh".

quote:


Now I would wonder why a Christian woman would care so little about her purity, phyiscal or otherwise, as to give the impression (intended or not) that she is not striving to be or remain pure. Is saving a few bucks worth it?


What is all this speak about "impression"? Since when did the "christian" community start caring so much about "impression"? I wonder how far Jesus would've gotten worrying about "impression". Do you happen to remember that the "religious" types of the time spoke so loudly about his "sinfulness"?


I'm sorry you are unable to grasp humor and glean the point from it.

As far as for caring what others think, and when this infected Christianity, it was about here:

I Corinthians 8:9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.



rcjames -> RE: living together (6/10/2008 3:45:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
As far as for caring what others think, and when this infected Christianity, it was about here:

I Corinthians 8:9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.


Excellent point Bro_Shane, I would also throw in that what others (even non-Christians) think is paramount to being in the ministry;

(1Ti 3:7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Thanks
RC



SonInMe1 -> RE: living together (6/12/2008 8:37:55 AM)

I would think dating is tough enough to keep from temptation let alone living together. They would almost have to not be attracted to each other physically for sex not to happen...and that ain't a good recipe for a succesful relationship.



Stronger2day -> RE: living together (6/14/2008 12:01:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: car2ner

On a more light hearted note, why would any woman want to clean up after a guy she isn't even married to? Granted, slobs come in all shapes and sizes but you know what I mean. [;)]



YOU ARE TOO FUNNY!

Out of college I lived in large city and had many friends who HAD to have roomates because they couldn't afford to live there. Of the friends I had who moved in with the opposite sex over half of them told me that they ended up having physical relationships with them- they didn't intend it to happen, and for a couple they weren't even attracted to them...but they got lonely and well you know the rest....



Jet_A_Jockey -> RE: living together (6/15/2008 8:26:37 AM)

oh lets make sure not to talk to the unsaved either as it'll give the impression of evil if someone sees us, since after all, its more important what the world thinks of us rather than what God thinks [8|]

Women, I'm male, so just disregard and do not read this message, I'd hate to give the impression of evil. Lol, come on, seriously. With the cost of housing these days, and fuel prices, let a man and woman live together. It may lead into sin? Sure, of course, but so does getting on the internet, doesn't it?

This is no different than the churches around here preaching that consumption of alcohol is a sin. ahh but thats another thread for another day. God bless.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: living together (6/15/2008 11:48:09 AM)

When I was planning a move from Minnesota to California with my children, I sold my house and moved into an apartment I could exit more easily for the move. The apartment I chose was the basement in a house, but to reach my part of the house, I entered the single male owner's kitchen and went directly downstairs.

I thought nothing of that, because my conscience was clear, I had no ulterior motives, and I had no interest in the fatherly single man who owned the home. I thought nothing of it until the pastor of the church I was in told my parents that they should get me to move. I have always thought, "How silly of the little man. This shows where his mind goes."

I didn't move. I stayed, and nothing ever happened.

However, something could have. I remember one specific time when something could have. For years, I have purposely ignored that time, purposely desiring to forget that the man made a lame approach, which I declined and went downstairs, where my work to diminish the thought began immediately.

If I were to find myself single again today, would I do it again? I don't think so. As innocent as my motives were, I cannot depend purely on my own motives when there is another person involved, because I cannot control another person's thoughts and motives 100% of the time.

Would I move in with another woman? Possibly, but I would be very careful about that. Given the chance to do something else, I certainly would take the "something else." Why create a problematic circumstance?



humbleinspirit -> RE: living together (6/15/2008 4:43:49 PM)

Posting semi-blindly here:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Donnaym

Is it alright to live with someone of the opposite sex to save on expenses as long as you are not having sex together? Donna


If its a roommate situation and nothing other than friendship then I would see a problem with it per say.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

If you are a Christian it's not O.K. The Bible tells us to abstain from even the appearance of evil. Living with someone of the opposite sex is an appearance of evil as it could be misinterpreted as having a sexual relationship out of wedlock and could very well ruin your testimony and stumble others.


In certain communities people wouldn't give it a second thought other than roommates living together, etc. Now if you are in a relationship then that could pose problems though.



A-Tech -> RE: living together (7/30/2008 9:37:15 PM)

Here is an article in USA Today that suggests that living together before marriage reduces the risk of divorce

ARTICLE LINK

Just for the record, I believe that living together before marriage is inappropriate.

The poll on their page asks your views on cohabitation.

Of the almost 10,000 people that have answered the poll as of this time, 43%, almost half, think cohabitation is perfectly acceptable, while only 1/4 believe that it is living in sin. About 1 in 6 people said that it is OK if there are plans to marry or OK if no kids are involved. Note that I'm not in any way surprised by these results.



ekserekseez -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 9:56:24 AM)

Many women, at least in large cities, share apartments with gay men because people won't think they're sleeping with the person they live with.



Anoc -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 11:02:04 AM)

Let me speak up here because I've been there and done that. I've had four different male flatmates over several years. I figure I'm accountable to God, myself and my home church, but not to whatever nasty thoughts other people may have. God and I know that there was never anything going on. My very conservative Scottish Presbyterian church has always known about all those guys and is trusting me as a Christian adult. If at any point I had thought that there were inappropriate thoughts on either my or any of my flatmates' side I would have ended the living arrangement.

Some people seem to think that sharing a living space with a person of the opposite gender creates an atmosphere of unbridled eroticism in the house. No, I promise it doesn't [8|]. At home is where I am at my least seductive. My flatmates have seen me in my oldest clothes, socks with holes, the throes of a phlegm-spluttering cold, a bad temper and many other things. The thought of whose turn it is to carry the rubbish out is very much more likely to be on your mind than romantic dreaming.

quote:

Men are pigs, dogs, and apt to wallow in the flesh at the first chance they get. It's part of our fallen nature.

Whoa! I have to step in and defend my flatmates here. Nothing like that has never been my experience. I didn't fancy any of my flatmates. They didn't fancy me. That was all. Once that was clear we could settle into a happy, comfy friendship. (And no, none of us was gay.)



solarflare -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 11:25:50 AM)

quote:

If it is a platonic relationship then there is nothing wrong with it.

You can use that "appearance of evil" line all day long and apply it to everything under the sun but it doesn't mean you are using it in context.



Absolutley wrong. I would never believe that 2 people of the opposite sex in the same house would not sooner or later .......... end up in the same bed at the same time. They could deny it all they wanted. In fact, here's a lovely story: Two Christians living together in the same house - opposite sex....everyone knew...they insisted they were not having sex...she became pregant. Immaculate deception. True story.


I do not subscribe to the men are pigs - I've seen a few female ones -
I do subscribe that the verse of scripture stating we are to stay away from even the appearance of evil applies.



solarflare -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 11:29:17 AM)

quote:

Here is an article in USA Today that suggests that living together before marriage reduces the risk of divorce


What else did you think it would say?



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 11:33:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

quote:

Here is an article in USA Today that suggests that living together before marriage reduces the risk of divorce


What else did you think it would say?

Generally specialists have said that living together before marriage increases the risk for divorce. A-Tech was merely pointing out the contrasting study.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 11:38:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

quote:

If it is a platonic relationship then there is nothing wrong with it.

You can use that "appearance of evil" line all day long and apply it to everything under the sun but it doesn't mean you are using it in context.



Absolutley wrong. I would never believe that 2 people of the opposite sex in the same house would not sooner or later .......... end up in the same bed at the same time. They could deny it all they wanted. In fact, here's a lovely story: Two Christians living together in the same house - opposite sex....everyone knew...they insisted they were not having sex...she became pregant. Immaculate deception. True story.


I do not subscribe to the men are pigs - I've seen a few female ones -
I do subscribe that the verse of scripture stating we are to stay away from even the appearance of evil applies.

[8|]

So everyone who rooms together of the opposite sex ends up in the same bed together?

That's some serious generalisation if I ever heard it.

I suppose you would agree it's better for two girls to live together then, correct?

How about when those two girls are lesbians and no one knows it? They are sinning but because they are the same sex it doesn't look like sin. Correct?



solarflare -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 11:49:23 AM)

Aww shucks what a surprise that someone puts a meaning in my words that I did not say or write. I wrote about something I knew for a fact and just those 2 people. The rest of what you wrote is just not worth answering because it looks like you would like to start an argument with me and I don't know you well enough to argue [:D]

It is absoultely wrong to live with someone of the opposite sex - where do I get that from? God's word.

That, does not need a defense. If someone claiming to be a Christian wants to go ahead and do it anyway, they will. But, since the OP asked, as a Christian, I am obligated to provide the best and most Godly council available. That is the person to whom I was responding.

Tinkerbell, feel free to respond to the OP - I did not ask you anything and I am not going to respond to any other inflamatory things you may write to me. Thanks



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 12:02:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

Aww shucks what a surprise that someone puts a meaning in my words that I did not say or write. I wrote about something I knew for a fact and just those 2 people. The rest of what you wrote is just not worth answering because it looks like you would like to start an argument with me and I don't know you well enough to argue [:D]

It is absoultely wrong to live with someone of the opposite sex - where do I get that from? God's word.

That, does not need a defense. If someone claiming to be a Christian wants to go ahead and do it anyway, they will. But, since the OP asked, as a Christian, I am obligated to provide the best and most Godly council available. That is the person to whom I was responding.

Tinkerbell, feel free to respond to the OP - I did not ask you anything and I am not going to respond to any other inflamatory things you may write to me. Thanks


quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

Absolutley wrong. I would never believe that 2 people of the opposite sex in the same house would not sooner or later .......... end up in the same bed at the same time. They could deny it all they wanted. In fact, here's a lovely story: Two Christians living together in the same house - opposite sex....everyone knew...they insisted they were not having sex...she became pregant. Immaculate deception. True story.


I do not subscribe to the men are pigs - I've seen a few female ones -
I do subscribe that the verse of scripture stating we are to stay away from even the appearance of evil applies.

I don't believe I was being inflamatory when I responded to the statement I bolded above. If you think I was, I ask your forgiveness.

I'm not trying to start an argument...I'm merely questioning what you're saying. Just because it looks good doesn't mean it is, and in the same respect just because it looks bad doesn't mean that it is.



solarflare -> RE: living together (8/6/2008 12:31:09 PM)

Well, thanks then. I was really only writing about the two people in my little anecdote - not taking any other conclusions. I stand by what I said re living together and further, I do not believe a Christian should live with any gender confused person either; for the same reasons.
This is not about what the world thinks or how it sees things. As Christians, our first obligation is to God. Scripture indicates that one way we show our love to Him, is by obeying Him - ie His word.

As I stated, that is MY response to the OP. Thanks



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