Lack of respect for Pastor. (Full Version)

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csl7037 -> Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 1:59:59 PM)

I posted a while ago in the Marriage folder about wanting to change churches but dh doesn't. I got good advice there as far as dh and I not being on the same page. But, as soon as I decide (again) to try to check my attitude and hold out unless/until the Lord leads dh to think about change, something else comes up that doesn't sit well with me.

We went out of town this weekend so we missed church Sunday. A friend told me today that Pastor did one of his "this church isn't growing...you people aren't doing your part" sermons. That just bugs me. I don't really invite people, I admit it. I have one friend who asked me directly (because she lives around the corner from our new building) and I've mentioned it again since she asked. I'd like her to start coming because I think her pre-teen dd's will enjoy the youth - which seems to be the only place anything is happening. If I had a friend in real need, though, looking for a church where they can be ministered to, I'd refer them to the church where my kids go to school.

My church just suffers from a real lack of leadership. I've struggled with a diminishing respect for our pastor for a while. I feel terrible even saying that but I can't get away from it. Our church has struggled a lot. Every time I think we may be turning a corner, it doesn't happen. I'm burned out and disappointed. There's something really holding this church back.

Am I being discerning or do I just have a rotten attitude?

Edited to add: Dh and I are and have been involved in ministry/leadership. At least until recently - dh still is; I'm really just doing the obligatory nursery duty at this point. It's not that we haven't put anything into it or that we don't feel recognized or appreciated. We're really part of the "core group" (or what's left of it). It's not about recognition, it's about results. I feel like what I have put in doesn't accomplish anything. Toiling away under a lack of leadership and/or lack of annointing in this thing. Thinking for years if we work harder, pray harder, give more God will move. He's not moving so where's the missing link here? So frusrating!



rcjames -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 3:46:50 PM)

My suggestion; either leave or get an attitude adjustment.

I would also imagine that if you leave you will be dissatisfird with the next Church as well.

So please go for the attitudr adjustment.

Thanks
RC



lw9 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 3:46:52 PM)

quote:

csl7037: Dh and I are and have been involved in ministry/leadership. At least until recently - dh still is; I'm really just doing the obligatory nursery duty at this point. It's not that we haven't put anything into it or that we don't feel recognized or appreciated. We're really part of the "core group" (or what's left of it). It's not about recognition, it's about results. I feel like what I have put in doesn't accomplish anything. Toiling away under a lack of leadership and/or lack of annointing in this thing. Thinking for years if we work harder, pray harder, give more God will move. He's not moving so where's the missing link here? So frusrating!


Hi csl7037! I'm sorry, but I only have time to address this portion. Something that really struck me in reading this are the expectations that if you do X [work more, pray more, give more], God will do Y. It doesn't work that way. We can ask for something in prayer, but there's no guarantees we will receive what we think is a 'return on our investment' because God's will is sovereign. I may be reading this incorrectly, but it just kind of sounds like you are expecting God to follow through on your wishes because you have worked so hard, and this may be part of the problem.

Anyway, take care and God bless you!



musicboss11 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 4:48:53 PM)

I agree with lw9. I would also add that because you were not there to hear the sermon, you don't know what exactally was said.



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 4:52:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9
I may be reading this incorrectly, but it just kind of sounds like you are expecting God to follow through on your wishes because you have worked so hard, and this may be part of the problem.

Anyway, take care and God bless you!


If it's a clarification, what I mean is that we've been with this church pretty much since the beginning. I don't think we're looking for some kind of return as much as some kind of fruit. I guess we (at least I) just expect to see God's hand in it. Since the very beginning, building this church has felt like beating your head against a brick wall. If God's not in it, I don't see the point. I've never faced this kind of dissatisfaction or frustration in an kind of church or ministry I've been involved with. It's really not as simple as RC's flippant retort. I'm fully aware of people who go from church to church never satisfied and constantly flaw-finding. I've spent the last several years urging frustrated friends to hold on. I spent years believing we were on the verge of spiritual breakthrough as a church. I don't see that now. I'm struggling with whether I'm finally realizing we're part of something that's not being led or blessed by the Lord or I'm just under attack and about to miss something.



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 4:54:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: musicboss11

I agree with lw9. I would also add that because you were not there to hear the sermon, you don't know what exactally was said.


Maybe. But he does this same thing every couple of months.



lw9 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 5:13:58 PM)

Hi csl7037:

quote:

It's really not as simple as RC's flippant retort.


No, it never is that simple and I could see that.

quote:

I spent years believing we were on the verge of spiritual breakthrough as a church. I don't see that now. I'm struggling with whether I'm finally realizing we're part of something that's not being led or blessed by the Lord or I'm just under attack and about to miss something.


Can you explain what you mean by spiritual breakthrough and describe what you see as a blessed vs. a non-blessed church? What kind of fruit do you see as lacking at your church? I think that would help to us to see where you're coming from and what your expectations are.

I don't know anything about your church, but is your pastor is preaching the gospel message faithfully and without shame [including those things a lot of people consider 'negative', like sin and repentance]? Is he standing firmly by the scriptures and guarding his flock well? Those are very important aspects to look at.



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 5:58:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9
Can you explain what you mean by spiritual breakthrough and describe what you see as a blessed vs. a non-blessed church? What kind of fruit do you see as lacking at your church? I think that would help to us to see where you're coming from and what your expectations are.

I don't know anything about your church, but is your pastor is preaching the gospel message faithfully and without shame [including those things a lot of people consider 'negative', like sin and repentance]? Is he standing firmly by the scriptures and guarding his flock well? Those are very important aspects to look at.


We bought land and were trying to get the building built - took about five years. We've been through a lot of upheaval - losing two Asst Pastors, several worship leaders, lots of people coming in, getting involved, and leaving frustrated along the way. Maybe all that's pretty normal. In numbers, we've seemed to go in waves, growth then collapse, growth then collapse. Numbers don't mean a whole lot, though. Spiritually, I can't say the church, or the people in it (except maybe the youth) are growing at all. We seem to go through fads (Purpose Driven Life) or campaigns that start with fanfare but never go anywhere. There's no consistency of message or mission.

I hesitate to get into what I see the pastor doing or not doing - but I guess that's what I titled this thread and the heart of my discontent. There's no consistency there either. I say he does these "family meeting" type sermons every few months. Every few months he gets discouraged and comes down on the congregation like this. Then he'll spend a few weeks on some breakthrough he's having or that's coming, but never really goes anywhere. He flirts with moving ahead in the Spirit, then pulls back. There's just no leadership, IMO. There's very little follow through. A few months ago, I was really just about at whit's end. He spent several Sundays in his sermons talking almost nonsense. I really was dumbfounded. He'd go off for several minutes and I'd be completely lost. I know dh was lost; I never really had the nerve to talk to anyone else about it. To be quite honest, I thought he was losing it. Truly, I think he's battling some physical and emotional things and I've tried to hang in, pray for him...the church just seems to have been floundering for so long. It's not accomplishing anything for the Kingdom that I can see. People in it aren't growing, lives aren't being changed, the lost aren't being reached. I don't think my children are learning anything at all.

I guess getting into this new building is what I was holding out for. I guess I've been thinking that this would be the turn of the corner but it hasn't been. I guess through all our struggles before, there was still this to look toward and now that we're here and there's still no growth (spiritually), I don't see anything on the horizon to make me think things will change. I fear I'm rambling but hope that makes some sort of sense. Thanks.



prophet -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 8:01:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

My suggestion; either leave or get an attitude adjustment.

I would also imagine that if you leave you will be dissatisfird with the next Church as well.

So please go for the attitudr adjustment.

Thanks
RC


Maybe the pastor's the one who needs and attitude adjustment OR a chnage of calling?



mayfly -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/9/2008 9:32:50 PM)

Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me too. From what you say, it seems that the core leadership of this church is not inspired by the Lord and His word the way it should be.



timf -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 8:47:04 AM)

I'm struggling with whether I'm finally realizing we're part of something that's not being led or blessed by the Lord or I'm just under attack and about to miss something.

When one sees discord at church, there are several possible answers. First start with identifying the types of problems;

1. Too weak.
2. Too strong.
3. Biblical error.
4. Worldly.
5. Cliques or factions.
6. Too materialistic.
7. Too busy

Next consider who is responsible for the problems;

1. You are the problem.
2. The pastor is the problem.
3. The denomination is the problem.
4. The other people in church are the problem.
5. Church leadership is the problem.

Last consider if the problems can be fixed. If the problems can be fixed, do you think that they will be. You will likely discover that other people do not see "problems" the same way that you do and so a "solution" may not be achievable. The next question is can you live with something unresolved or will it fester and become a stumbling block for you.

Many people approach church as consumers. They are somewhat similar to the connoisseur who never quite finds that perfect dry red wine. Other Christians begin to discover that as you subtract personalities and circumstances from the equation, that there may be something structural that impedes Christian life in churches.

Some Christians turn in a direction where the church is little more than a place to meet other Christians and cultivate relationships with these other Christians. They discover that there can be a richness in these relationships and even opportunities to minister to one another that is not often found in more traditional church activities, events, and programs. The peculiarities and eccentricities of a particular church may not be significant if you are drawing a richness in living the Christian life with other Christians.

If you can find an older wiser woman who clearly shows the light and love of Jesus in her life, you may want to ask her to help you grow to know Jesus like she does. Church is not necessarily a denomination, building, or even pastor. The body of Christ is the ecclesia and we have been somewhat remiss in our ministry to each other.



rcjames -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 10:06:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: prophet
Maybe the pastor's the one who needs and attitude adjustment OR a chnage of calling?


That is always a possibility.

Something to consider is that if a person ever finds a Church where everything suits them, then that Church will have only one member; that person.

I maintain that the simplist way to handle situations such as this is to search one's own heart and seek to worship God, even though the circumstances may not be ideal.

Or quietly move to a gathering where one can worship God without distractions.

Thanks
RC



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 11:55:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timf
When one sees discord at church, there are several possible answers. First start with identifying the types of problems;

1. Too weak.
2. Too strong.
3. Biblical error.
4. Worldly.
5. Cliques or factions.
6. Too materialistic.
7. Too busy


The only thing I think could apply on this list is "too weak". I've been in a church where I think the Pastor was too strong. I really don't think any of those others could be said about this church. And I know no situation is perfect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: timf
Next consider who is responsible for the problems;

1. You are the problem.
2. The pastor is the problem.
3. The denomination is the problem.
4. The other people in church are the problem.
5. Church leadership is the problem.


I admit, I'm not really trying right now to make anything better. I've tried, I've burned out, I don't see any place for me anymore. It's non-denominational - which I think is part of the problem. I've been in non-denominational churches most of my life and I prefer that, in theory. But the Pastor has spent most of his ministry in a denominational setting (SBC); sometimes I think he's lost. He talks about and seems to emulate other churches - Willow Creek, Rick Warren, etc. I don't think this church has any kind of identity. Frankly, after 7 years, I just recently found out we're supposedly part of WCA. I'm not even sure how I feel about that and I'm certainly not sure how I didn't know that!

As far as other people - for the most part, the vast majority are just completely uninvolved. It's very much a Sunday-only crowd, IMO. Another reason why I see no growth. Except for the youth, there really isn't anything

quote:

ORIGINAL: timf
Last consider if the problems can be fixed. If the problems can be fixed, do you think that they will be. You will likely discover that other people do not see "problems" the same way that you do and so a "solution" may not be achievable. The next question is can you live with something unresolved or will it fester and become a stumbling block for you.


I guess that's where I am. I don't see anything changing. I was holding out hope that, in the new building, it would. It hasn't.



drfuss -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 1:00:40 PM)

drfuss: How big is this church? You may have already told us, but I didn't see it. Sometimes churches have a transition phase from small church (less than 150) to medium siae church (150 TO 300).

Years ago, my sister and her family were the main ones in getting a church started and helping it grow. However, when the church got large enough that they did not know everyone personally, they got unhappy and left the church. They went to a small church of less that 100 where they are the main families and they are now happy there. Different strokes for different folks.



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 1:42:45 PM)

It's been hovering at 300-something for quite sometime. Dh and I came from a church of about 7,000! This is the smallest church we've ever been in. Sometimes I have wondered if I just feel so disconnected because we don't seem to know many people but I don't think it's the new people that make me feel that way as much as we've had so many people leave. Maybe part of me just doesn't want to bother to meet new people any more. But, at the same time, it doesn't seem like the new people, or anyone, is really plugged in anymore. There's just not much to be plugged into. The church where my kids go to school has several thousand and I think it feels more like a family or a community; and I think I know more people there than at my own church. We've always had home "cell" groups. That worked OK for a while but we've not really been in a consistent group now for a couple years (at least). Maybe I just wish our church would have something like Sunday school classes now that we're in our building. I think I'm boiling a big part of this down to feeling really disconnected. I'm sure I can't be the only person feeling this way.



Bro_Shane -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 2:25:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

We went out of town this weekend so we missed church Sunday. A friend told me today that Pastor did one of his "this church isn't growing...you people aren't doing your part" sermons. That just bugs me. I don't really invite people, I admit it.



That says volumes to me.

Pray for the man. Love him anyway. Ask him what you can do to help. Actually invite people and be pro-active. If everyone does this in the right heart, and the church does not grow and people aren't being discipled, then it will be clear who the problem is and it can be dealt with then.

I mean you no disrespect, but on this issue you are not "bugged" because he got it wrong - you are bugged because he stepped squarely on your toes.



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 3:48:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

We went out of town this weekend so we missed church Sunday. A friend told me today that Pastor did one of his "this church isn't growing...you people aren't doing your part" sermons. That just bugs me. I don't really invite people, I admit it.



That says volumes to me.

Pray for the man. Love him anyway. Ask him what you can do to help. Actually invite people and be pro-active. If everyone does this in the right heart, and the church does not grow and people aren't being discipled, then it will be clear who the problem is and it can be dealt with then.

I mean you no disrespect, but on this issue you are not "bugged" because he got it wrong - you are bugged because he stepped squarely on your toes.


Invite them to/for what, though? To see if more new people make things start happening? Seems kinda disingenuous.



drfuss -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 4:17:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

It's been hovering at 300-something for quite sometime. Dh and I came from a church of about 7,000! This is the smallest church we've ever been in. Sometimes I have wondered if I just feel so disconnected because we don't seem to know many people but I don't think it's the new people that make me feel that way as much as we've had so many people leave. Maybe part of me just doesn't want to bother to meet new people any more. But, at the same time, it doesn't seem like the new people, or anyone, is really plugged in anymore. There's just not much to be plugged into. The church where my kids go to school has several thousand and I think it feels more like a family or a community; and I think I know more people there than at my own church. We've always had home "cell" groups. That worked OK for a while but we've not really been in a consistent group now for a couple years (at least). Maybe I just wish our church would have something like Sunday school classes now that we're in our building. I think I'm boiling a big part of this down to feeling really disconnected. I'm sure I can't be the only person feeling this way.


drfuss: From 7000 to 300 will really make a difference on how people relate to each other within the church. About 15 years ago, we went from churches with attendance around 250 and started attending a church of 2000 and saw a big difference. In the 250 attendance church, we knew every regular attender in the church and were expected to participate in about every activity in the church.

In the church of 2000, we had to pick and choose what activities we would participart in and only learned to know those within those activities. The 2000 church had good leaders, was well organized, and the activities were lead by professional staff members.

On the other hand, many of the small church activites and functions were lead by volunteers and are less organized. Of course the pastor of the smaller church was less talented as a leader. I suspect maybe you are discouraged from this type of contrast.

One pastor can only sheperd about 250 people. I have seen churches grow to about 350 people and then have problems mostly because the original 250 were feeling left out when the pastor provides less attention to them and more to the new people. This problem can be solved by the church bringing on an effective associate pastor to assist in sheperding the flock. This usually does not happen because the senior pastor is too insecure to permit giving up a part of the sheparding of the flock. In most cases where this was tried and failed, the real problem was not the associate pastor (who got the blame), but the insecurities of the senior pastor, i.e. the senior pastor was not happy that some of the people are sheparded by the associate pastor instead of him.

Concerning people leaving the church, maybe the 300 size church is too large for them if they are really small church people who want the attention of the pastor evey Sunday. On the other hand, if they are large church people, they may have the same problems as described above.

Anyway, a part of your problem is probably due to coming from a large church with its good group of leaders, and coming to a smaller church where the leadership is less and the group dynamics are very different.

Just something to consider.



Bro_Shane -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 5:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

We went out of town this weekend so we missed church Sunday. A friend told me today that Pastor did one of his "this church isn't growing...you people aren't doing your part" sermons. That just bugs me. I don't really invite people, I admit it.



That says volumes to me.

Pray for the man. Love him anyway. Ask him what you can do to help. Actually invite people and be pro-active. If everyone does this in the right heart, and the church does not grow and people aren't being discipled, then it will be clear who the problem is and it can be dealt with then.

I mean you no disrespect, but on this issue you are not "bugged" because he got it wrong - you are bugged because he stepped squarely on your toes.


Invite them to/for what, though? To see if more new people make things start happening? Seems kinda disingenuous.



The body should function regardless. If a church body is not functioning in leading people to Christ, edifying and interceding for one another, and in fellowship with one another, then the problem is not so much the pastor. A pastor can lead and guide only so far. If a local congregation is being a congregation and functioning as a body it is easy to tell whether or not the pastor is a problem. If they are not, it's easy for him to be a scapegoat.

There's nothing disingenuous about serving the Lord and fellowship, even if the conditions are not what we wish they were.



cow451 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 6:17:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: prophet
Maybe the pastor's the one who needs and attitude adjustment OR a chnage of calling?


That is always a possibility.

Something to consider is that if a person ever finds a Church where everything suits them, then that Church will have only one member; that person.

I maintain that the simplist way to handle situations such as this is to search one's own heart and seek to worship God, even though the circumstances may not be ideal.

Or quietly move to a gathering where one can worship God without distractions.

Thanks
RC

Definitely one should examine the one in the mirror. It's the Lord's work, not the Churches. By church i am referring to a particular congregation. That leads people to where they are supposed to be. Some people may be led to help a struggling ministry, others to a church that meets their own family needs for youth ministry, etc. A church that's doing the work well will grow and do so steadily over time. A flash in the pan church will grow for a time, then dwindle.

Here in the south, one can throw a rock in any direction and hit at least three churches. So, there is no reason to stay with a church that isn't working for you. But make sure the problem is the church and not you.



rcjames -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 6:22:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
Definitely one should examine the one in the mirror. It's the Lord's work, not the Churches. By church i am referring to a particular congregation. That leads people to where they are supposed to be. Some people may be led to help a struggling ministry, others to a church that meets their own family needs for youth ministry, etc. A church that's doing the work well will grow and do so steadily over time. A flash in the pan church will grow for a time, then dwindle.

Here in the south, one can throw a rock in any direction and hit at least three churches. So, there is no reason to stay with a church that isn't working for you. But make sure the problem is the church and not you.


Most perceptive post.


Thanks
RC



Bro_Shane -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 7:55:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: prophet
Maybe the pastor's the one who needs and attitude adjustment OR a chnage of calling?


That is always a possibility.

Something to consider is that if a person ever finds a Church where everything suits them, then that Church will have only one member; that person.

I maintain that the simplist way to handle situations such as this is to search one's own heart and seek to worship God, even though the circumstances may not be ideal.

Or quietly move to a gathering where one can worship God without distractions.

Thanks
RC

Definitely one should examine the one in the mirror. It's the Lord's work, not the Churches. By church i am referring to a particular congregation. That leads people to where they are supposed to be. Some people may be led to help a struggling ministry, others to a church that meets their own family needs for youth ministry, etc. A church that's doing the work well will grow and do so steadily over time. A flash in the pan church will grow for a time, then dwindle.

Here in the south, one can throw a rock in any direction and hit at least three churches. So, there is no reason to stay with a church that isn't working for you. But make sure the problem is the church and not you.


It is a good post - perhaps I have rushed to judgment on some of your other posts. Who knows, I was wrong once before, it could happen again (in theory). [&:]



prophet -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 8:20:30 PM)

Theologically its the Lords work. But how many congregations work as a such?

In most churches, the governmental structure is such that the pastor IS the leader.

Therefore, the Lords work appears to become his work objectives and invariably becomes his ambitions.
How oft do pastors recognise the building blocks of the congregations where some are called to be pastors, taechers, evangelists and so on? Especially those congregation who are not paid by the institution.

More oft than not, this pastor(in charge) sets the programs for the rest to contribute. Is this a right bilblical model?

Flash in pan churches equates membership builders. Disciples builders are what the Lord requires.
However you cant measure disciples technically but measuring members is much easier and fulfilling to the flesh. Discipleship takes much more than methodogies that the world delivers. Disciples takes a lot of sweat and tears of leadership.

Just how many leaders are willing to do this?



csl7037 -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/10/2008 8:37:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: prophet
More oft than not, this pastor(in charge) sets the programs for the rest to contribute. Is this a right bilblical model?


I think what I'm seeing is a lack of leadership and organization hindering the efforts of others to get things rolling. Plenty of people try and lots have tried and become frustrated and left. Without cohesive leadership, nothing really gets off the ground, people's best efforts aren't supported, and nothing is accomplished. I'm not expecting the Pastor to do all the work but at least set a tone and create a dynamic and a stucture where people can use their gifts.



rcjames -> RE: Lack of respect for Pastor. (6/11/2008 11:09:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
I think what I'm seeing is a lack of leadership and organization hindering the efforts of others to get things rolling. Plenty of people try and lots have tried and become frustrated and left. Without cohesive leadership, nothing really gets off the ground, people's best efforts aren't supported, and nothing is accomplished. I'm not expecting the Pastor to do all the work but at least set a tone and create a dynamic and a stucture where people can use their gifts.


csl7037,

I am not speaking to you personally but to Churches in general. I have been in Church leadership for over 45 years and one of my duties for our denomination now is calming down proplems that arise in our member Churches.

When the prarie fires of discontent get started they are really hard to put them out. Folks are unhappy, so they try to fix it, it doesn't work or is not accepted by the leadership and the folks really get out of sorts about it. Why?

It is usually pride (arrogance) that keeps fanning the fire, and pride (arrogance) can be on both sides (leadership and/or laity). The folks that try something and it doesn't fix all the problems get bent out of shape because it was their "Way" and they take it personally. Wrong attitude. I mean when anyone gets the "It's my way or the highway" attitude growth in the Lord is stopped.

The Leadership looks out and sees 4 or 8 or 10 different attempts at fixing what some see as a propblem, and they know (or should know) that the approach will bring nothing but confusion. And they rightly so are very cautious about change, especially wholesale change that might destroy the Church altogether.

My suggestion to you or anyone else that is so "Bothered" that thye cannot learn and worship God is to go and talk with the leadership. Quietly and politely express your concern and any suggestion that you might have to rectify what you see as a hinderance. Then listen to the responses, listen to the responses, consider the responses, pray about the responses; then you can make an informed dicision about where you wish to hang your hat.

Do not gather up a bunch of folks by finding others who are stirred up o do not go around trying to stir up others to your way of thinking. Do not take a large group to "Confront" the leadership. To do any on that is divisive and a sin.

When you speak to the leadership offer to be of help in any way, shape, or form to help the Church. This is paramount for you are not a spectato, but an intergral part of the local Body of Christ. There are far too many folks that think because they attend a Church and drop a few bucks in the plate when it comes by, that they are to be entertained, conjoled, patted on the head, and their every whim catered to by the leadership. That is wrong as if they are at that Church; then they are an intergal part of that church for as long as they are at that Church.

If one (you or anyone else) stays out of sorts after seriously trying to help fix a situation that you feel is detremental to the Church: then quietly and politely go to another fellowship. Do not try to justify your move with the other members, do not try to get a group to go with you, do not diss the old Church when you get to a new one. Just go and be blessed.

Thanks
RC



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