RE: Question About Healing (Full Version)

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1love1God1way -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:06:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miril

I disagree, all that is needed is Faith and a Pure Heart. Problem is that most people do not have a pure heart.

A pure heart is not about going to church every Sunday, reading scripture everyday and hanging out in a Christian forum.

It is about following God's Word when no one is looking . What people always forget is that God is ALWAYS looking, and he knows.

Psalm 73:1 (NIV)
Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart.


I do those things and have suffered from anxiety disorders and bi-polar disorder for a long time.

. . . and I have watched people who fall back into sin again and again miraculously healed.

Your statements are false.



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:12:28 PM)

Pure heart? I guess the Apostle Paul didn't have a "pure" heart.

NOWHERE in Scripture do we find the promise that all born-again believers living today would be free of physical sickness, pain, affliction.



SirWintery -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:20:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb


Then we will see if what I am saying is nonsense or not.


tomb awaits


Tell that at your church's next prayer time. If God doesn't answer any prayer, why pray for the sick?

Yes the Gospel was confirmed and I doubt anyone will have a gift of miracles or perhaps even a gift of healing, but let's not confuse that with corporate prayer or even individual prayer being answered by God. It does happen and you probably know I don't mind questioning and denouncing what I think are false reports, but God is still God.

I could make a different deal with you. I can show you a man who can walk and talk miraculously after a doctor removed the infected half of his brain---documented. The son of a local businessman I've known for twenty years received this miraculous recovery as his church prayed for him while he was in surgery. Half his brain was removed...no ifs ands or maybes.



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:22:26 PM)

Yes, we do have the complete Word of God. Yes, we have false teachers and charlatans out there making merchandise of men by claiming they can heal..

But God still does heal today and God still does do miracles when He wills and chooses to.

Seems like he is confusing two different things and in doing so making God a liar.



Ezra -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:23:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trixie123
I'm having a bit of a hard time w/ something. If Jesus says if one of you is sick pray for them and they will be healed. Obviously this doesnt always work. Why would he say it if it weren't true? What did he mean?


Trixie:

The first thing to clearly understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Great Physician. He healed absolutely everyone who came to Him for healing. Also, we find that all those who came to the apostles for healing were healed after Pentecost. These were all signs and wonders, or miracles to authenticate that Jesus was the Son of God, and the Gospel was of Divine origin, and the apostles were messengers of God.

However, the instructions in James 5:14-16 are not regarding signs and wonders but Divine healing through the prayer of faith offered by the the elders of the church. If this does not always result in healing, it could either be because of lack of faith on the part of one or many, or lack of confession of sins on the part of the one afflicted, since the forgiveness of sins is joined to the physical healing in these verses.

God does allow His saints to be afflicted in many ways (including disease and sickness) for testing their faith and giving them an opportunity to develop patience. Job was severely afflicted and we can expect afflictions also. However, this is not a reason to avoid praying in faith for healing. We should pray for healing for ourselves and others, and then leave it with the Lord. He may or may not heal as he chooses.



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:25:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

ORIGINAL: trixie123
I'm having a bit of a hard time w/ something. If Jesus says if one of you is sick pray for them and they will be healed. Obviously this doesnt always work. Why would he say it if it weren't true? What did he mean?


Trixie:

The first thing to clearly understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Great Physician. He healed absolutely everyone who came to Him for healing. Also, we find that all those who came to the apostles for healing were healed after Pentecost. These were all signs and wonders, or miracles to authenticate that Jesus was the Son of God, and the Gospel was of Divine origin, and the apostles were messengers of God.



Exactly - Jesus was speaking to His disciple, to those in that immediate context, and His promise to them.. His claim was 100% fulfilled.



my quivers full -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:38:59 PM)

Basing our theology on our experiences or the testimony of others is a fault many of us walk in. Gods word is the lamp unto our feet and the light unto our path. If what we experience doesn't line up with Gods word, we need to, to put it bluntly, be in Gods face about it. There could be many reasons why people aren't healed when we pray for them. The fault doesn't lie with God or His word. We judge ourselves as having faith, or being right having done nothing wrong, yet is God convinced? He sees our hearts, He knows what's there. I do not have the ability to judge why a person I pray for is healed and the next not. Gods word is very clear it is His will to heal, yet not all receive. This doesn't change God's desire. If I'm praying for a healing and that person doesn't get healed, I have the ability to ask God why and expect Him to answer.

I received a healing once, then by the confession of my own mouth, I allowed the sickness back. I repented and was prayed for a second time and again was healed. The scriptures say life and death are in the power of the tongue. I learned a lesson from that. When we minister healing, do we hope God will work, or do we expect it? When we issue a command for the sickness to be gone, do we expect our command to be obeyed? Can we flow in God's authority here on Earth, if we refuse to submit to the authorities He has placed in our lives? The Roman centurian recognized that Jesus was able to do the works He did because He was a man under authority. The centurian knew what being under authority meant. We claim Jesus as Lord and then do what we want. Who really is Lord? Who's commandments do we obey?

God is good and all He does is good. Jesus said we should pray that God's will would be done here on Earth just as it is in Heaven. There are no sick people in Heaven. His will can be accomplished when we submit to Him. Lay down our lives, take up our cross and follow Him. If we don't we can't be His disciples.



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 8:41:35 PM)

my quivers full,

We cannot speak things into existence (ala Word of Faith), sorry but that is not biblical. Faith is not a force and our words are not the containers of the force.

NOWHERE in Scripture do we find the promise that all born-again believers living today would be free of physical sickness, pain, affliction.



my quivers full -> RE: Question About Healing (6/19/2008 10:43:49 PM)

earthless

nowhere did I claim word of faith, I quoted this scripture

Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21

If you disagree with this scripture, that's up to you. Faith is believing what God said. This what Abraham did and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith in action is acting on what God said.

The Lord said to Jeremiah, that He watches over His word to perform it (1:12)

Jesus told of the persistent widow who got what she was owed because of her persistence. (Luke 18:1)

Isaiah said that the chastisment which brought us peace was upon Him and by His wounds we are healed (53:5) We know that Isaiah was speaking of the Messiah. The word of the Lord says we were healed at the cross, we have a right as Gods children to ask for what He provided. If you provide food for your children, do they not have a right to ask you for something to eat when they are hungry? God provided healing for us, we, His children, can ask our Heavenly Father for what He has for us. If it does not come right away, be persistent. It is not a sin. Do we not think that God will see we want Him to give us what He says He wants to give us. Do you think this might please Him that we know what He has done for us and we believe enough to keep asking till we receive it? I'm not talking new cars and houses, I'm talking about need.



DaveW -> RE: Question About Healing (6/20/2008 6:17:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

earthless

nowhere did I claim word of faith, I quoted this scripture

Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21

If you disagree with this scripture, that's up to you. Faith is believing what God said. This what Abraham did and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith in action is acting on what God said.
While I am not who you wrote this to, I will jump in and say that even though you have not claimed wof, you are using the wof application of the passage.

Context, my brother. This is a PROVERB, not an absolute law nature or spirit. That does not denigrate the passage (or the book) at all; indeed, it is using it as HE intended.

The meaning behind the proverb: what you say can soothe and encourage someone, or can cut them to the heart and emotionally destroy them. You will benefit if you use your words to build people up.

If we take passages such as this to order the universe (and even God) to obey our will, who are we saying is really god?

Does God heal today? Absolutely yes. Does He speak to us and do miracles? Again, yes.

Does He do it on our timetable or in the way we think He should? Sometimes but not always.

Do NOT try to intrepret scripture from a 20th or 21st century western mindset. It will lead you to many wrong conclusions.



PolarBear -> RE: Question About Healing (6/20/2008 7:30:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

Know anyone who has walked on water lately?

Where does Jesus say we should walk on water?

quote:

Know anyone who has raised a person from being dead for four days Lately?

There have been some accounts. None that I know personally.

quote:

The reason for miracles was to confirm the word (message) was from God and the messenger was sent by God (Mark 16:20) (Heb.2:3,4). And of course to create faith in men (John 20:30,31).

Another reason is because Jesus simply had compassion on the sick. He is the same today, yesterday, and forever. He still has compassion for the sick!

quote:

The written word about the miracles should be enough to create faith in men today (John 20:30,31).

I agree to a certain extent, since a lot of testing can be done that validates the Biblical text. However miracles certainly add weight to the message, even today.

And a lot of miracles today (maybe the vast majority of them) happen on the frontiers of the mission field, where the Gospel is being preached for the first time into demonic territory.

quote:

But if you can make an appoinment with someone who can raise the dead,lets all meet at a cemetery and see what happens. The proof will be in the puddin (1Thess. 5:21).

That isn't how Jesus or anyone in the New Testament did it or what the Scripture tells us to do. Neither does it tell us to go "clear out hospitals." God heals when/where He wants, based on His criteria. "Mass healings" didn't occur in the Bible, but many individuals, each of whom wanted to receive healing from Jesus.



deliveredarling -> RE: Question About Healing (6/20/2008 8:05:04 AM)

Is it really just a matter of believing or did God actually give to some of us the ability to heal?

Scripture tells us that some are given the ability to heal? In what context though?
Mental, physical, emotional?
How about all.

Luke was a physician. If we weren't meant to heal, why would Luke have been given as an example?

We simply can not discount that we have been given some amazing doctors as well as treatments.

We have to be able to discern what it is that God is telling us when it comes to healing. Whether or not we need prayer or a doctor. If we seek Him first, we can be assured that we will find what it is He wants from us.

Sometimes our healings are not for us, but are used as a testimony to others.



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/20/2008 8:05:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

earthless

nowhere did I claim word of faith, I quoted this scripture

Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21

If you disagree with this scripture, that's up to you. Faith is believing what God said. This what Abraham did and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith in action is acting on what God said.

The Lord said to Jeremiah, that He watches over His word to perform it (1:12)

Jesus told of the persistent widow who got what she was owed because of her persistence. (Luke 18:1)

Isaiah said that the chastisment which brought us peace was upon Him and by His wounds we are healed (53:5) We know that Isaiah was speaking of the Messiah. The word of the Lord says we were healed at the cross, we have a right as Gods children to ask for what He provided. If you provide food for your children, do they not have a right to ask you for something to eat when they are hungry? God provided healing for us, we, His children, can ask our Heavenly Father for what He has for us. If it does not come right away, be persistent. It is not a sin. Do we not think that God will see we want Him to give us what He says He wants to give us. Do you think this might please Him that we know what He has done for us and we believe enough to keep asking till we receive it? I'm not talking new cars and houses, I'm talking about need.


I do not disagree that our words can hurt people and our edify people. But we cannot speak things into existence (positive confession/negative confession). Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22).

Our faith comes from God in the first place (2 Peter 1:1), and is not something we create for ourselves.

The mantra "by his stripes we are healed" is repeated endlessly in Christian circles. However, these words extracted from Isaiah 53:5 focus on spiritual rather than physical healing.

First, a quick look at the context makes it clear that Isaiah had spiritual rather than physical healing in mind: Christ "was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53:5, NKJV).

Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, "He Himself bore our sins in His Body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by His wounds you have been healed" (1 Peter 2:24).

Furthermore, while healing for the body is not referred to in Isaiah 53:5, it is referred to in he verse immediately preceding it. Here Isaiah writes, "Surely He has borne our grief’s and carried our sorrows; Yet was esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted" (Isaiah 53:4 NKJV).

Physical healing here is not only clear in context, but it is affirmed by the Gospels where it is given an important qualification: "When evening came, many who were demon possessed were brought to Him, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases'" (Matthew 8:16-17).

Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.

Finally, I should note that in a real sense Christ's atonement on the cross does extend to physical healing. One day, "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4).

However, as the apostle Paul points out, "We hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently" (Romans 8:25).

In the meantime, we will all experience sickness and suffering. Indeed, those who live before Christ returns will all die of their last disease - the death rate is one per person and we're all going to make it!

Nowhere are we promised a life here and now free of sickness and pain.



my quivers full -> RE: Question About Healing (6/20/2008 8:55:31 AM)

I know that it is Gods will to heal, He has made that very plain to me. The fact that people work so hard to undo this truth explains why so many can't receive healing, they don't believe and are willing to be full of doubts.

I can't order God around, But scriptures show many many times where people sought God for healing and that is what they got. Nowhere did Jesus say to anyone, No I won't heal you because God is trying to work something out in your life. The scriptures say He healed all who came to Him. That is still true today. Even when a gentile woman wanted healing for her daughter and jesus told her that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, she persisted, because she recognized who He was. He gave her request to her.

Jesus said there would be a great falling away in the end days and many will walk away from the faith. No doubt because people put human reasoning above the word of God. I have not said we will not be sick, we can and we need to recognize that we also have healing available to us. Can you show me where what jesus did in His days is no longer applicable for us? That we can't walk in His words, "you will do greater things than I have done?" We don't do these things in our own strength but in the strength of the Holy Spirit.



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/20/2008 9:05:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

I know that it is Gods will to heal, He has made that very plain to me.


Again, you will find nowhere in Scripture that promises physical healing for all people alive today. Feelings of "knowing" does not equate to truth from God's Word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

The fact that people work so hard to undo this truth explains why so many can't receive healing, they don't believe and are willing to be full of doubts.


It is not God's will to always physically heal everyone, that is made clear to us in the context of Scripture.

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

I can't order God around, But scriptures show many many times where people sought God for healing and that is what they got. Nowhere did Jesus say to anyone, No I won't heal you because God is trying to work something out in your life.


Jesus' earthly ministry was to establish the point of Him being who He claimed to be. It had its time and divine purpose to authenticate His Lordship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

The scriptures say He healed all who came to Him. That is still true today. Even when a gentile woman wanted healing for her daughter and jesus told her that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, she persisted, because she recognized who He was. He gave her request to her.

Jesus said there would be a great falling away in the end days and many will walk away from the faith. No doubt because people put human reasoning above the word of God.


And that is exactly what is happening due to Word of Faith churches/circles. Look at the current mayhem in Lakeland/Todd Bentley.

quote:

ORIGINAL: my quivers full

I have not said we will not be sick, we can and we need to recognize that we also have healing available to us. Can you show me where what jesus did in His days is no longer applicable for us? That we can't walk in His words, "you will do greater things than I have done?"


Some people (including, it would seem, you) take this passage to mean greater manifestations of the power of God would take place after Jesus' ministry.

Given almost 2,000 years of Christian history, such a perspective is hard to justify. Jesus raised the dead, walked on water, created food for thousands, healed lepers and the crippled, opened the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf - and, as God in the flesh, resurrected himself from the dead! (John 2:19-22).

The point of the passage, when Jesus said his followers would do "greater things" (John 14:11-14) is best understood by the immediate context that precedes these verses and those that immediately follow.

Firstly, the context that immediately follows this passage. In verses 15-18 of John 14 we see that in speaking of "greater things" Jesus was speaking of a spiritual dimension, a reality that, at the time of his earthly ministry, was not yet made available to all humanity. In talking about "greater things," Jesus was talking about the significance and meaning of not only what he had not yet done in his earthly ministry - his crucifixion and resurrection - but also the coming of another counselor - God the Holy Spirit.

So Jesus is saying, in terms of "greater things" that the work of God the Holy Spirit would begin. Just as Jesus had come to be with us and among us, in the flesh, God the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, another counselor, lives in us, spiritually.

Secondly, it is also helpful to consider the context that precedes the verses in which Jesus promises "greater things." In the initial verses of John 14 Jesus reassures his disciples, using metaphorical language, that he is going to prepare a place for them in his Father's house. Jesus told them he knew the way to his Father's house. One of his disciples, Thomas, apparently didn't grasp the deeper meaning of Jesus' words, and like many today, attempt to apply literal meaning to symbolic, metaphorical language inspired by God.

Thomas said that the disciples didn't know the way to the Father's house, and therefore they would have no idea how to join Jesus there. Jesus responded with the well known passage, "I am the way, the truth and the life" (John 14:6). Using the verb "to be", identifying himself as the great I AM of the Bible, Jesus made it clear that he was God in the flesh, and that we don't need to find the way to the Father's house if we know Jesus - Jesus doesn't just give us directions, He Himself embodies the "way, the truth and the life." If we are in Him and He in us, then we are going the "right direction" - we are in Him and He is in us.

So, given the context - how exactly would the followers of Jesus do "greater things"? We will experience, and we will be used, by God, because of his grace, to see spiritual transformation.

Jesus' ministry was filled with physical miracles, but physical miracles are not the greatest miracles. The greatest, most wonderful miracles are spiritual healings, spiritual rescues, spiritual transformations.

By God's grace we can be used as his tools to help direct our friends and family to the Great Physician, who will give us new life, transformed life, so that, because of him, we will cross over from death to life (John 5:24).

What a tragedy that religion misleads people and has them looking for the physical, when the "greater things" of the gospel of Jesus Christ are all about the internal transformation that God will work in the lives of those who accept our Lord and Savior.

He asked me to remind you.



Tomb -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 7:15:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolarBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

Know anyone who has walked on water lately?

Where does Jesus say we should walk on water?

quote:

Know anyone who has raised a person from being dead for four days Lately?

There have been some accounts. None that I know personally.

quote:

The reason for miracles was to confirm the word (message) was from God and the messenger was sent by God (Mark 16:20) (Heb.2:3,4). And of course to create faith in men (John 20:30,31).

Another reason is because Jesus simply had compassion on the sick. He is the same today, yesterday, and forever. He still has compassion for the sick!

quote:

The written word about the miracles should be enough to create faith in men today (John 20:30,31).

I agree to a certain extent, since a lot of testing can be done that validates the Biblical text. However miracles certainly add weight to the message, even today.

And a lot of miracles today (maybe the vast majority of them) happen on the frontiers of the mission field, where the Gospel is being preached for the first time into demonic territory.

quote:

But if you can make an appoinment with someone who can raise the dead,lets all meet at a cemetery and see what happens. The proof will be in the puddin (1Thess. 5:21).

That isn't how Jesus or anyone in the New Testament did it or what the Scripture tells us to do. Neither does it tell us to go "clear out hospitals." God heals when/where He wants, based on His criteria. "Mass healings" didn't occur in the Bible, but many individuals, each of whom wanted to receive healing from Jesus.


1. You have asked a great question. That is the point I am trying to make. God has not told us to preform miracles (nor expect them in our day and time). He has told us to preach the gospel (Rom.1:16) (Mt.28:18-20) (Mark 16:15,16).


2. I must agree our Lord is the same yesterday,today and forever. But that does not mean that the Lord did not change how he deals with man. And that is exactly what the Lord has done according to (Jer.31:31-34) (Heb.8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10). God deals with those living on this side of the cross in a different manner than those who lived before the death of Jesus.


From the time of Adam to the time of the Apostles in the first century miracles had a purpose. From that time on till today the Lord said to preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15,16). The power now is in the word of God (Rom.1:16). We must go about calling all people by the gospel (preaching the word) (2Thess.2:14). If they refuse to obey that gospel they will learn about (2Thess.2:10-12) (2Thess.1:7-9). It is a great occasion anytime a person chooses to submit to the word of God and serve Him and then become free from sin (Rom.6:16-18).


3. I would agree that miracles help to create faith in man.That is why I posted (John 20:30,31). This text tells us there were certain miracles which were done in the first century which were written down so that people later would believe. The written word of God is just as powerful as any miracle preformed if planted in the good and honest heart (Rom.1:16) (Luke 8:15).

4. The people being raised from the dead are always in a far off land. It is always a story,never any proof. We can film people living in the backwoods of Africa and other places,but we cannot film a miracle being preformed. There's a good reason why? Miracles do not happen today.

The body healing itself in a natural way is not a miracle. A miracle is somethng that happens which is contrary to all natural laws. Like walking on water or raising someone who has been dead for over four days,or re-attaching an ear after it has been cut off only to look like it never had been cut off.


5. I am not talking about a mass of dead people being raised,I am talking about just one. If you can find the person who can raise the dead we will watch him raise just one person who has been dead more than four days. (1Thess.5:21).


Thanks for posting PolarBear



http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html


Click on Publications - Look for a lesson on miracles


in love tomb



Tomb -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 8:27:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolarBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

Healing (miracles) ceased around the end of the first century (1Cor. 13:8-10) (Eph. 4:11-13). One of the reasons we know it ceased is because the only ones who could pass on the gifts to other people were the apostles according to (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).

What nonsense. Try telling that to those who have seen miracles, and it's not hard to find a Christian who has.

Also, healing is not mentioned only in the context of apostles. Ananias, a non-apostle, laid hands on Saul for him to receive his sight. Paul mentioned healing as a spiritual gift in 1 Cor 12. And Jesus said that healing will be a sign of those who believe (again, as I've said before, this is not a guarantee that it will happen every time).




Hello Polarbear,I think you misunderstood my post. I realize that people other than apostles done miracles in the first century. I did not claim that ONLY the apostles done miracles (who were the apostles passing the gifts too?).

What I did say was that it was only the apostles that could pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit to other people (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).

The question is,what happened after all the apostles died somewhere around the end of the first century? Does the scriptures anywhere teach that people other than the apostles could pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit? The answer is no according to (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).


(Acts 6:6) - Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.


(Acts8:18) - And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,


Thanks for posting Polarbear.




http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html


Click on Publications

Look for "A Reply To A Denominational Preacher"


tomb



Tomb -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 8:54:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wintery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb


Then we will see if what I am saying is nonsense or not.


tomb awaits


Tell that at your church's next prayer time. If God doesn't answer any prayer, why pray for the sick?

Yes the Gospel was confirmed and I doubt anyone will have a gift of miracles or perhaps even a gift of healing, but let's not confuse that with corporate prayer or even individual prayer being answered by God. It does happen and you probably know I don't mind questioning and denouncing what I think are false reports, but God is still God.

I could make a different deal with you. I can show you a man who can walk and talk miraculously after a doctor removed the infected half of his brain---documented. The son of a local businessman I've known for twenty years received this miraculous recovery as his church prayed for him while he was in surgery. Half his brain was removed...no ifs ands or maybes.




1. Why pray for the sick? So that this wonderful body the Lord made may work in the way he intended and heal itself by natural law.


2. The fact that the brain can learn to function properly (with half a brain) is not a miracle. God has designed the body to heal itself in magnificent ways,but none of them would be in the category of a miracle. The body heals itself by natural laws .

It seems people have redefined the meaning of a true miracle. If a person went to a doctor to be operated on,that does not compare with the miracles that happened in the first century . A true miracle means that no doctor would be required.



Gospel Broadcasting Network - http://www.gbntv.org/


Good bible lessons


tomb



rcjames -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 1:51:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
NOWHERE in Scripture do we find the promise that all born-again believers living today would be free of physical sickness, pain, affliction.


I agree earthless, but we do find this promise in the Scripture;

(Jas 5:14) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

(Jas 5:15) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 7:59:43 PM)

Amen, pastor. God does indeed still heal today - His grace and providence are simply amazing.



SirWintery -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 8:20:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

quote:

ORIGINAL: wintery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb


Then we will see if what I am saying is nonsense or not.


tomb awaits


Tell that at your church's next prayer time. If God doesn't answer any prayer, why pray for the sick?

Yes the Gospel was confirmed and I doubt anyone will have a gift of miracles or perhaps even a gift of healing, but let's not confuse that with corporate prayer or even individual prayer being answered by God. It does happen and you probably know I don't mind questioning and denouncing what I think are false reports, but God is still God.

I could make a different deal with you. I can show you a man who can walk and talk miraculously after a doctor removed the infected half of his brain---documented. The son of a local businessman I've known for twenty years received this miraculous recovery as his church prayed for him while he was in surgery. Half his brain was removed...no ifs ands or maybes.




1. Why pray for the sick? So that this wonderful body the Lord made may work in the way he intended and heal itself by natural law.


No, we do not pray for God to let natural law work. This is self-contradictory, unless that god is nature.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

2. The fact that the brain can learn to function properly (with half a brain) is not a miracle. God has designed the body to heal itself in magnificent ways,but none of them would be in the category of a miracle. The body heals itself by natural laws .


Chip Watkins did not "learn to function". He came out of surgery with miraculous function with half his brain removed. If you've ever heard the song "My Strong Arm" by Lenny LeBlanc it is based on Chip's miracle--he's stronger on one side but has function on the other where the doctors warned he could be a paraplegic or a vegetable.

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ORIGINAL: Tomb
It seems people have redefined the meaning of a true miracle. If a person went to a doctor to be operated on,that does not compare with the miracles that happened in the first century . A true miracle means that no doctor would be required.


It seems that people have redefined the workings of God to suit themselves. A true miracle is God helping when man can't.



Roberta_ -> RE: Question About Healing (6/21/2008 8:29:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

It is not always God's will for people to be healed. Just look at (1 John 5:16 NKJV) If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. There is a lot of debate about sin unto death, but this is my take on it. Someone who has smoked cigarettes for 40 years and has lung cancer, or were drunkards for years and has cirrhosis of the liver etc and is dieing, i feel this is what this verse is talking about.


I've been trying to quit smoking many years now. I can't say I've ever seen that verse used before in regards to smoking. In fact, I thought that verse was about Spiritual death.

Anyway- back to topic.....

Some people are quickly healed and some aren't. God heals in His time and in His way. Sometimes He doesn't heal at all. He has His reasons which are beyond my reasoning.



louisemlc48 -> RE: Question About Healing from Trixie 123 (6/22/2008 2:27:31 AM)

To trixie 123

I believe that Christians have different Spiritual Gifts. Not all have the gift of healing, or the gift of miracles, as in the scriptures below:

1 Corinthians 12:1-11
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same F39 Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

And there is still the question of "faith". Faith and belief goes hand in hand. If someone doesn't believe that healing is for today, then that person has unbelief and will not get healed. Anyone can have faith, but faith in what? How many times did Jesus talk about faith and unbelief:

Mt 6:30 -
Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mt 8:26 -
But He said to them, "Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?" Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.
Mt 14:31 -
And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mt 16:8 -
But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, "O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?
Lu 12:28
If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
Ro 3:22 -
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Ro 4:11 -
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,

I also believe that unforgiveness is a hindrance to getting our healing. Did not Jesus say that if we do not forgive others their sins He cannot forgive us our sins?

Mt 6:14
"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mt 6:15 -
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The Lord wants to heal everybody, but only when we get to heaven will we find out why after we believe and have faith and have a pure heart why we are not healed sometimes. Daisy Osborn was healed by doctors and by God 2 or more times, but yet she still died of cancer in the end. Why? And look at the thousands who got healed in their healing services all over the world. I'm talking a bout miracle healings. T.L. Osborn is still going strong he and his daughter Ladonna. There are still miracles everywhere they go. Go to www.osborn.org

Even His disciples had unbelief. Did they have faith the size of a mustard seed? I'm sure they did. But even a seed has to grow, but first the seed has to die. Maybe their seed of faith had not grown much at that time, and unbelief took over like a weed with thorns.

Matthew 17:14-21
14 And when they had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying, 15 "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. 16 So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him." 17 Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me." 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not cast it out?" 20 So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; F82 for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."

Some times we have to fast and pray in order to get our faith and Spiritual gifts flowing. We definitely need more healing ministers who operate "with power" with miracle signs and wonders following.

Like connecting a radio to a battery or to the electricity. If you don't connect it it won't play, it is dead. This is why we need the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the power of God. This is when the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given. I have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, this changed my life. Yes, I have some of the Spiritual gifts.

I'm still waiting for my new pancreas so that I will not longer have diabetes. I believe, I have faith and I believe in miracles, so I just wait for my miracle to manafest and I thank God for my "new pancreas" during prayer time from day to day. I also am examining my heart to see if there is a hindrance and asking God to reveal it to me so that I can release it and command it go in Jesus name.

I have a calling on my life and He is getting ready to release my ministry soon. I know that I will fullfill my calling, so I just take care of myself and take my medicine. I know someday I will not need my medicine, either because He heals me while on this earth or when He takes me home. Right now I am more concerned about my Spiritual condition. I am letting Him purify me and cleanse me & letting Him do whatever I need to be able to fullfill the ministry that He has intrusted me with. I hope that this has helped you trixie 123, or anyone else. May the Lord bless you all and may He reveal to you what you need.



PolarBear -> RE: Question About Healing (6/22/2008 4:58:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

1. You have asked a great question. That is the point I am trying to make. God has not told us to preform miracles (nor expect them in our day and time). He has told us to preach the gospel (Rom.1:16) (Mt.28:18-20) (Mark 16:15,16).

The Great Commission seems to indicate that He has told us to do both.

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Certainly He commanded His disciples (who He was speaking to) to heal, so I think that is part of the "all things". Clearly we are still to preach to the nations and baptize them, so why do you arbitrarily take healing out of this?

quote:

2. I must agree our Lord is the same yesterday,today and forever. But that does not mean that the Lord did not change how he deals with man. And that is exactly what the Lord has done according to (Jer.31:31-34) (Heb.8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10). God deals with those living on this side of the cross in a different manner than those who lived before the death of Jesus.

True but I don't think that involves healing.

quote:

From the time of Adam to the time of the Apostles in the first century miracles had a purpose. From that time on till today the Lord said to preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15,16). The power now is in the word of God (Rom.1:16). We must go about calling all people by the gospel (preaching the word) (2Thess.2:14). If they refuse to obey that gospel they will learn about (2Thess.2:10-12) (2Thess.1:7-9). It is a great occasion anytime a person chooses to submit to the word of God and serve Him and then become free from sin (Rom.6:16-18).

1 Cor 2:4-5 My speech and my preaching were not in persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith wouldn’t stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

That is how Paul reached the Corinthians. He reached a lot more people there than in Athens, where he used persuasive preaching. I think some groups today are reached the same way.

quote:

3. I would agree that miracles help to create faith in man.That is why I posted (John 20:30,31). This text tells us there were certain miracles which were done in the first century which were written down so that people later would believe. The written word of God is just as powerful as any miracle preformed if planted in the good and honest heart (Rom.1:16) (Luke 8:15).

Yeah. Try convincing an atheist over that though ...

quote:

4. The people being raised from the dead are always in a far off land. It is always a story,never any proof. We can film people living in the backwoods of Africa and other places,but we cannot film a miracle being preformed. There's a good reason why? Miracles do not happen today.

You have to have all knowledge to authoritatively state that "miracles do not happen today!" I really doubt you have Godlike knowledge! Proving this kind of thing to skeptics is hard. But I'm sure those who were there believe! Also, there are quite a lot of stories, and if only one of them is true it proves you wrong that "no miracles happen today."

I have personally seen one, though it was more mental than physical. A college buddy of mine was healed from ADD after we laid hands on him several times. He had been failing accounting miserably, despite trying hard and hiring tutors, but after that moment he started doing really well.



PolarBear -> RE: Question About Healing (6/22/2008 5:03:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomb

Hello Polarbear,I think you misunderstood my post. I realize that people other than apostles done miracles in the first century. I did not claim that ONLY the apostles done miracles (who were the apostles passing the gifts too?).

But which apostle passed the gift to Ananias? From the story, it sounds like God just up and gave it to him.

quote:

What I did say was that it was only the apostles that could pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit to other people (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).

You showed that the apostles could indeed pass on the gift. But that is not proof that only the apostles could do so.

Note in 1 Cor 12:9, which was posted by louisemlc48 above, we see that a gift of healings are given "by the same Spirit" -- the spirit who also gives gifts of wisdom, knowledge, faith, discerning, etc. If you are saying that gifts of faith and discerning and knowledge are still given by the Spirit, you are being inconsistent.



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