RE: Question About Healing

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Tomb -> RE: Question About Healing (6/23/2008 6:25:49 AM)
Keeping in mind that (Rom.15:4) & (1Cor.10:11) remind us to look and learn from the things that happened in the O.T scriptures. Let us notice a few things found in the O.T. scriptures. In (Isa.2:1-5) (Dan.2:44) teach that the church (or kingdom) would have its beginning in Jerusalem. (Acts 2:36-47) gives us an account of what happened on that day of Pentecost. But notice what (Zech.13:1-5) has to say. 1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: 5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. In (Heb.8:12,13) this section of scripture teaches us that forgiveness of sins will be something that will happen in the N.T. (New Covenant). (Heb.8:12) - 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. These scriptures in Hebrews helps us to realize when the prophets were to cease according to (Zech.13:1-5). GBNtv -- Gospel Broadcasting Network tomb

PolarBear -> RE: Question About Healing (6/24/2008 11:19:44 AM)
Tomb: Perhaps you can explain, do you see a connection between your bolded verse in Zech 13:2 and healing? That is saying that false prophets will be driven out of the land.

LifeMaster -> RE: Question About Healing (6/30/2008 4:59:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: trixie123 I'm having a bit of a hard time w/ something. If Jesus says if one of you is sick pray for them and they will be healed. Obviously this doesnt always work. Why would he say it if it weren't true? What did he mean? Dear trixie123: May God Bless your search for the truth and may your findings challenge your faith and give you a hunger for the fullness of God’s exceeding great and precious promises. I’m not a final authority but here’s what I’ve discovered. It’s never valid to base our faith on life experiences. Jesus judged not after the sight of his eyes or the hearing of his ears but he judged righteously (after the truth, the Word of God). Why? Because it’s obvious that God’s perfect will is not being done in the Earth—people are sinning and going to hell (help us Jesus), people are being raped, banks are being robbed, etc., etc. etc. etc. It’s also very obvious that God’s perfect will is often not done among his own people. Scriptures in the OT such as Ex. 15:26 and Duet. 7:15 make it clear that God wanted his people healed and healthy under the Old Covenant, yet they often weren’t because they refused to listen to Him (the Word of God). (For those of you thinking of Job, if you want to compare your time of sufferings to him, the truth is that he came through his adversity, repented (42:6), ended up with twice as much as he had before and lived another 140 years in peace and goodness). Today, we have a new and better Covenant. Jesus healed all who were sick—all who came to Him were healed. He never told anyone they had to stay sick so He could teach them something. He said in John 10:10, “the thief cometh not but to kill, steal and destroy. I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly”. Acts10:38 says that Jesus went about doing good and healing those who, like Job, had been oppressed of the devil. The biggest reason I’ve seen for Healing Prayer failure is that unless you know and understand what God’s will is you can’t act or Pray decisively and your prayers will be weak and ineffective. The more you understand and know God’s Will the stronger your faith will be. On the other hand, satan will try to kill you and all the while he’s doing it, he’ll try to blame it on God. But Jesus revealed God as a loving Father worthy of all praise. I recommend studying what the Bible says about long life and length of days. Eph. 6: 1-3 and Proverbs are a good starting point. The Bible tells us that we can have a huge say in how long we live. The second reason I’ve seen for failed Healing Prayer is that it’s not applied deligently enough. In Mark 8: 23-25, Jesus had to lay his hands on the blind twice to heal him. If Jesus had to pray twice, how much more do we need to pray 15 minutes, and hour or two hours to see the same result (instead of getting discouraged)? It helps to know that healing is by degree based on the anointing (power) available and the faith that gives action to it. One final thought if you’re praying for healing for yourself, is that any fight of faith involves (1) establishing the Word of God, (2) resisting the evil (the sickness), and (3) establishing the good (healing). It helps very much to try to discern (or seek an Elder you can trust who can tell you) where you’re at spiritually in the battle. The three stages of victory are—having the upper hand, gaining the victory, and having the victory in-hand. If you know where you are it and are making progress it is a tremendous encouragement. Thank you for reading. May God’s Richest Blessings be yours

Gazingstock -> RE: Question About Healing (6/30/2008 8:24:54 PM)
quote: earthless: Some blunt truths... Physical healing is not promised to all believers living today. Satan can and does perform false miracles, signs and wonders, healings which deceive and fool. God actually brings on aliments, etc to complete His will when He deems it proper. -Amen, earthless is on track in this thread. Here are some facts I have experienced about healing: I have seen God heal, many times. Sometimes instantly. Sometimes non-believers. Sometimes consequential damage in particular is not healed directly. Sometimes pain and suffering can be reduced. Sometimes healing marks only the turning point. Sometimes healing, to my great dismay, results in rebellion and resentment towards God. When we read the Old Testament, we find very few healings. This is because it was an era of living with the consequences of sin, and pain and suffering are about the #1 consequence. In the New Testament, healing was the most common miracle. Yet remember, every miracle is a sign, and the sign is this: God alone has the power to fix and heal everything, and restore us to paradise. @ChristopherJ: You made some good points, and these can help explain some of the cases where healing does not occur. Sometimes it just isn't within the plan of God to heal. We will have to let Him enlighten us in the future about those occasions.

thebullhorn -> RE: Question About Healing (7/1/2008 5:12:29 PM)
But sickness is not from God. sickness only exists on earth, and therefore has an evil nature all its own. To say that 'it's not always God's will for people to be healed' is to deny the true power of God over all forms of evil on earth. I don't know exactly why everyone that prays to be healed isn't. I do know for some it's a matter of faith; for others it's a matter of sin; and yet for others it's simply a matter of timing; for most, though, it's a matter of doubt. Even when SOME people pray for healing, there is that small section of doubt - which is often times the obstacle to true healing. I do believe that if people had the same trust in the ability to heal through the Power of Christ the same way Jesus did (which would equate to the trust we have that when we put our foot down, it will stop firmly on the floor and not keep going or stop mid-air), more healing would be seen.

earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (7/1/2008 5:43:07 PM)
thebullhorn, Please feel free to respond to the points I have posted regarding your comments.

Dagwat -> RE: Question About Healing (7/1/2008 8:23:26 PM)
One scripture comes to mind which we often forget while we are wondering why healing didn't come. I'm away from my Bible at the moment but it says that : "IT IS APPOINTED that all men should die". We each have an appointed hour to go home. We will keep that appointment. Only God can change your appointment if He so chooses, but God isn't about "change" so most likely it's not going to happen. SO why healing? Well, while we are here, and face struggles, illness and so on, if we pray and seek God, healing does exist and it is freely given to man. Sometimes we don't see it that way because someone died and we didn't see them healed. When healing means changes someone's appointment to go home, then it contradicts the scripture that we do have an appointment with God. Not sure if that came out right but I know what I'm trying to say. I think it would grieve God to let someone stay here longer than He appointed for them, when they are ready to go home, have run their race faithfully and have won the prize of eternal life. There are many questions about healing that we can't seem to answer. Probably because there is much about God that we do not understand, but maybe that will at least answer ONE of the many questions on this topic.

Dagwat -> RE: Question About Healing (7/1/2008 9:00:52 PM)
I have a couple more thoughts on this subject as I have pondered it. Sometime God uses illness (I do NOT believe God CAUSES illness) to draw a man or woman close to God and prepare them for eternal life. In some cases, that person might never draw close to God otherwise. Therefore by giving that person healing over that illness would defeat His purpose for allowing it in the first place to come upon them. I'm reminded of the story of Hezekiah. A man ready to meet God, and to whom was told that he would surely die. Hezekiah begged God for healing and God granted his wishes and healed him. God gave Hezekiah 15 more years to live. By all indications I see in scripture, during that 15 years God added to the life of Hezekiah, he turned from God. Had God taken him when it was first appointed, Hezekiah was ready. He was a man of God. Sometimes God has a purpose for NOT healing someone. And secondly, healing is not really all about US, but about God using healing miracles to draw people to Himself. If He cannot use that healing to reveal Himself to someone, He may not have a reason for healing a person. We take things so personally sometimes that we often forget that everything God does is to further His own purpose, for it's His purpose for which he created man in the first place. He has given us life, He gave us His son to die for our sins, He doesn't OWE us ANYTHING. God heals whom He chooses and He has a reason for all things. We cannot question God's decisions. He knows things we do not know and cannot see. All we can do therefore is to trust that His way is the RIGHT way, and continue to serve Him and place all our trust in Him. In due time, we will understand all the whys that we may never understand in this lifetime. Sometimes God heals us purely because He loves us and doesn't want us to suffer. Other times He heals as a means to reveal Himself to us or to someone else. It's not all about faith, or lack thereof, but more specifically about God's will, and His will alone. Don't be caught up in wondering why, just trust that He knows EXACTLY WHY and trust Him. His promises are true and He WILL "work all things together for the good of those who love him." Even when it's not the way we wanted Him to do it.

doinkdom -> RE: Question About Healing (7/2/2008 3:56:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebullhorn But sickness is not from God. sickness only exists on earth, and therefore has an evil nature all its own. To say that 'it's not always God's will for people to be healed' is to deny the true power of God over all forms of evil on earth. I don't know exactly why everyone that prays to be healed isn't. I do know for some it's a matter of faith; for others it's a matter of sin; and yet for others it's simply a matter of timing; for most, though, it's a matter of doubt. Even when SOME people pray for healing, there is that small section of doubt - which is often times the obstacle to true healing. I do believe that if people had the same trust in the ability to heal through the Power of Christ the same way Jesus did (which would equate to the trust we have that when we put our foot down, it will stop firmly on the floor and not keep going or stop mid-air), more healing would be seen. God does allow sickness if it is for our benefit to glorify Him

TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Question About Healing (7/8/2008 3:22:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: doinkdom quote: ORIGINAL: thebullhorn But sickness is not from God. sickness only exists on earth, and therefore has an evil nature all its own. To say that 'it's not always God's will for people to be healed' is to deny the true power of God over all forms of evil on earth. I don't know exactly why everyone that prays to be healed isn't. I do know for some it's a matter of faith; for others it's a matter of sin; and yet for others it's simply a matter of timing; for most, though, it's a matter of doubt. Even when SOME people pray for healing, there is that small section of doubt - which is often times the obstacle to true healing. I do believe that if people had the same trust in the ability to heal through the Power of Christ the same way Jesus did (which would equate to the trust we have that when we put our foot down, it will stop firmly on the floor and not keep going or stop mid-air), more healing would be seen. God does allow sickness if it is for our benefit to glorify Him Where is a biblical verse that says that God allows people to be sick for his own pleasure? III John 3:2 2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. God's word is his will, and if it says that he desires above all things it means all things. How can he desire you to be in sickness if he desires above all things for you to be healed. Romans 8:32 32 He (God) that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? So if it's God's desire to heal us above all things and will also freely give us all things. How can we pray and not expect God to heal us. God can and will heal you it's just a matter of believing. Believe and act like you are healed when you pray and you will get healed. You can do this on your own as well.

doinkdom -> RE: Question About Healing (7/8/2008 11:43:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH Where is a biblical verse that says that God allows people to be sick for his own pleasure? 2 Corinthians 4:16-18: "Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the thing which are not seen are eternal." Romans 5:3-4: "And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance: and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope." 1 Peter 4:12,13: "Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that also at the revelation of His glory, you may rejoice with exultation." Romans 8:18: “I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.” 1 Peter 1:7-8: “These [all kinds of trials] have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy.”

TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Question About Healing (7/8/2008 10:28:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: doinkdom quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH Where is a biblical verse that says that God allows people to be sick for his own pleasure? 2 Corinthians 4:16-18: "Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the thing which are not seen are eternal." Romans 5:3-4: "And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance: and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope." 1 Peter 4:12,13: "Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that also at the revelation of His glory, you may rejoice with exultation." Romans 8:18: “I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.” 1 Peter 1:7-8: “These [all kinds of trials] have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy.” II Corinthians 4:16-18 is referring to heaven! Even in the last verse it talks about eternity (which isn't now, but after Christ's return). The light affliction we are going through now is only momentarily compared to the eternal greatness in Heaven. Romans 5:2 2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:2 talks about the "hope of glory." The hope of glory in the bible always refers to the glory that we will have in Heaven. This same glory is also mentioned in II Corinthians 4:17. This leads in to Romans 5:3-4 which talks about how even tho we are going through tribulations it is helping us grow in our believing if we trust in God to help us instead of going by our five senses. This does not say that God makes us unhealthy or causes us to be sick. Romans 8:35-39 shows God's great love for us! 35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Nothing can separate us from God's love! Paul is using some sarcasm in the first 2 verses to lead up to verse 37 which states that we are supreme conquerers! Even sickness is conquerable! Furthermore, God is incapable of causing people to be sick. I'll show you! I John 1:4-5 4) And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. God is light and in him is no darkness at all! It's God's word and it means what it says and it says what it means. Sickness is darkness. And if there is no darkness in God there is also no sickness. Sickness must come from the devil. I John 4:7-9 8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. God is also love! And if you love someone you wouldn't want them to be sick. How can God be love and make us sick? It wouldn't make any sense at all. Your last two verses are also talking about the hope of glory when Christ returns. Those are talking about eternal things. Not that God makes us sick to grow us closer to him. However, if you are still unsure of what I'm saying then ask God to help you. He will most certainly help you if you ask him!

greatdivide46 -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 7:32:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: trixie123 I'm having a bit of a hard time w/ something. If Jesus says if one of you is sick pray for them and they will be healed. Obviously this doesnt always work. Why would he say it if it weren't true? What did he mean? I don't know the experience of others but personally I have never prayed for a sick person to be healed who is still not healed. There were all healed. Maybe not instantaneously, but then, Jesus never said they'd be healed instantly. He just said they'd be healed. So as far as I'm concerned praying for the sick and seeing them healed always works.

doinkdom -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 2:54:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH God is also love! And if you love someone you wouldn't want them to be sick. How can God be love and make us sick? It wouldn't make any sense at all. So what do you tell someone who has fibromyalgia or cerebal palsey? They aren't spiritual enough or God doesn't love them enough? What about Joni Erickson Tada? Does God not love her?

Roberta_ -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 4:23:27 PM)
Good points doink!

earthless -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 5:28:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH God is light and in him is no darkness at all! It's God's word and it means what it says and it says what it means. Sickness is darkness. And if there is no darkness in God there is also no sickness. Sickness must come from the devil. You're proof-texting to reach and justify a conclusion that is false - that Christians are to be physically healthy and financially wealthy. The death rate (the ultimate physical sickness) is one per person. The Bible describes several instances when physical suffering was caused by Satan and his demons (Matthew 17:14-18; Luke 13:10-16). So, some sickness is not from God, but from Satan. Even in these instances, God is still in control. God sometimes allows sin and/or Satan to cause physical suffering. Even when sickness is not directly from God, He will still use it according to His perfect will. It is undeniable, though, that God sometimes intentionally allows, or even causes sickness to accomplish His sovereign purposes. While sickness is not directly addressed in the passage, Hebrews 12:5-11 describes God disciplining us to "produce a harvest of righteousness" (verse 11). Sickness can be a means of God's loving discipline. It is difficult for us to comprehend why God would work in this manner. But, believing in the sovereignty of God, there is no other option than suffering being something God allows and/or causes. The clearest example of this in Scripture is found is Psalm 119. Notice the progression through verses 67, 71, and 75 - "Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word...It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me." The author of Psalm 119 was looking at suffering from God's perspective. It was good for him to be afflicted. It was faithfulness that caused God to afflict him. The result of the affliction was so that he could learn God's decrees and obey His Word. Again, sickness and suffering is never an easy thing to deal with. One thing is for sure, sickness should not cause us to lose faith in God. God is good, even when we are suffering. Even the ultimate of suffering--death--is an act of God's goodness. It is hard to imagine that anyone who is in Heaven as a result of sickness or suffering regrets what they went through in this life. God uses sickness and other evils to bring about His sovereign purpose, to glorify Himself, and to exalt His holy name. At times, He miraculously heals sickness. Jesus went through Israel healing all manner of sickness and disease (Matthew 4:23) and even raised Lazurus from the dead after illness killed him, and Peter raised Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9). At other times, He uses it as a method of discipline or as a judgment against sin. King Uzziah in the Old Testament was struck with leprosy (2 Chronicles 26:19-20). Nebuchadnezzar was driven to madness by God until he came to understand that “the Most High rules in the affairs of men” (Daniel 4). Herod was struck down and eaten by worms because he took God’s glory upon himself (Acts 12:21-23). There is even at least one case where God allowed disease—blindness—not as punishment for sin, but to reveal Himself and His mighty works through that blindness (John 9:1-3). When illness does come, it may not be the result of God’s direct intervention in our lives, but is rather the result of the fallen world, fallen bodies, and poor health and lifestyle choices. And although there are scriptural indicators that God wants us to be in good health, (3 John 2) "Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers," all sickness and disease are allowed by Him for His purposes, whether we understand them or not. Sickness is certainly the result of the Fall of man into sin, but God is very much in control and He does indeed determine how far evil can go (just as He did with Satan and Job's trials—Satan was not allowed to exceed those boundaries). He tells us He is all-powerful some fifty-six times in the Bible, and it is amazing to see how His sovereignty dovetails with the choices we make (both bad and good) to work out in a perfect plan (Romans 8:28). For those who are believers and suffering with illnesses such as cancer in this life, the knowledge that they can glorify God through their suffering tempers the uncertainty as to why He has allowed it, something they may not truly understand until they stand in His presence in eternity. At that time, all questions will be answered.

Dan1138 -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 7:41:53 PM)
off topic but please note: I frequent, a poster who has been doing research into the early days of Pentecost posted the following 'prophecy,' made at the Azusa St. Revival in 1906: IN THE LAST DAY THREE THINGS WILL HAPPEN IN THE GREAT PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT: 1) THERE WILL BE AN OVEREMPHASIS ON POWER, RATHER THAN ON RIGHTEOUSNESS; 2) THERE WILL BE AN OVEREMPHASIS ON PRAISE, TO A GOD THEY NO LONGER PRAY TO; 3) THERE WILL BE AN OVEREMPHASIS ON THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT, RATHER THAN ON THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST. Passion Power and Possession see temptation of Christ, Eve and Adam see also parable of the sower(soils)

TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 10:39:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: doinkdom quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH God is also love! And if you love someone you wouldn't want them to be sick. How can God be love and make us sick? It wouldn't make any sense at all. So what do you tell someone who has fibromyalgia or cerebal palsey? They aren't spiritual enough or God doesn't love them enough? What about Joni Erickson Tada? Does God not love her? I would tell them to believe and that they can be healed. No sickness is too great for God to heal. If God can create universes then he can heal anything your body has in you. God created the sun (which isn't even the biggest of it's kind) that has millions of nuclear explosions on it per second and it never runs out of energy (atleast in our lifetime). How can a God that big and powerful not be able to heal certain things. It comes down to believing for God to move for you. They just need to believe God and they will absolutely get healed, there are no exceptions.

Roberta_ -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 11:39:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH quote: ORIGINAL: doinkdom quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH God is also love! And if you love someone you wouldn't want them to be sick. How can God be love and make us sick? It wouldn't make any sense at all. So what do you tell someone who has fibromyalgia or cerebal palsey? They aren't spiritual enough or God doesn't love them enough? What about Joni Erickson Tada? Does God not love her? I would tell them to believe and that they can be healed. No sickness is too great for God to heal. If God can create universes then he can heal anything your body has in you. God created the sun (which isn't even the biggest of it's kind) that has millions of nuclear explosions on it per second and it never runs out of energy (atleast in our lifetime). How can a God that big and powerful not be able to heal certain things. It comes down to believing for God to move for you. They just need to believe God and they will absolutely get healed, there are no exceptions. So this means you're never going to need medical treatment for a serious illness?

TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 11:40:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH God is light and in him is no darkness at all! It's God's word and it means what it says and it says what it means. Sickness is darkness. And if there is no darkness in God there is also no sickness. Sickness must come from the devil. You're proof-texting to reach and justify a conclusion that is false - that Christians are to be physically healthy and financially wealthy. The death rate (the ultimate physical sickness) is one per person. The Bible describes several instances when physical suffering was caused by Satan and his demons (Matthew 17:14-18; Luke 13:10-16). So, some sickness is not from God, but from Satan. Even in these instances, God is still in control. God sometimes allows sin and/or Satan to cause physical suffering. Even when sickness is not directly from God, He will still use it according to His perfect will. It is undeniable, though, that God sometimes intentionally allows, or even causes sickness to accomplish His sovereign purposes. While sickness is not directly addressed in the passage, Hebrews 12:5-11 describes God disciplining us to "produce a harvest of righteousness" (verse 11). Sickness can be a means of God's loving discipline. It is difficult for us to comprehend why God would work in this manner. But, believing in the sovereignty of God, there is no other option than suffering being something God allows and/or causes. The clearest example of this in Scripture is found is Psalm 119. Notice the progression through verses 67, 71, and 75 - "Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word...It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me." The author of Psalm 119 was looking at suffering from God's perspective. It was good for him to be afflicted. It was faithfulness that caused God to afflict him. The result of the affliction was so that he could learn God's decrees and obey His Word. Again, sickness and suffering is never an easy thing to deal with. One thing is for sure, sickness should not cause us to lose faith in God. God is good, even when we are suffering. Even the ultimate of suffering--death--is an act of God's goodness. It is hard to imagine that anyone who is in Heaven as a result of sickness or suffering regrets what they went through in this life. God uses sickness and other evils to bring about His sovereign purpose, to glorify Himself, and to exalt His holy name. At times, He miraculously heals sickness. Jesus went through Israel healing all manner of sickness and disease (Matthew 4:23) and even raised Lazurus from the dead after illness killed him, and Peter raised Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9). At other times, He uses it as a method of discipline or as a judgment against sin. King Uzziah in the Old Testament was struck with leprosy (2 Chronicles 26:19-20). Nebuchadnezzar was driven to madness by God until he came to understand that “the Most High rules in the affairs of men” (Daniel 4). Herod was struck down and eaten by worms because he took God’s glory upon himself (Acts 12:21-23). There is even at least one case where God allowed disease—blindness—not as punishment for sin, but to reveal Himself and His mighty works through that blindness (John 9:1-3). When illness does come, it may not be the result of God’s direct intervention in our lives, but is rather the result of the fallen world, fallen bodies, and poor health and lifestyle choices. And although there are scriptural indicators that God wants us to be in good health, (3 John 2) "Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers," all sickness and disease are allowed by Him for His purposes, whether we understand them or not. Sickness is certainly the result of the Fall of man into sin, but God is very much in control and He does indeed determine how far evil can go (just as He did with Satan and Job's trials—Satan was not allowed to exceed those boundaries). He tells us He is all-powerful some fifty-six times in the Bible, and it is amazing to see how His sovereignty dovetails with the choices we make (both bad and good) to work out in a perfect plan (Romans 8:28). For those who are believers and suffering with illnesses such as cancer in this life, the knowledge that they can glorify God through their suffering tempers the uncertainty as to why He has allowed it, something they may not truly understand until they stand in His presence in eternity. At that time, all questions will be answered. You have brought up some interesting points. However, God no longer uses sickness and darkness to glorify him. He no longer punishes people for sins because we are covered by the blood of Christ. We live in the grace administration so once we get forgiven he no longer remembers our sins. Psalm 103:12 12) As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Romans 4:7 7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Hebrews 8:12 12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:17 17) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. He absolutely cannot remember our sins once we get forgiven of them. Now I know of Christians who continue to be sick once they ask for forgiveness. If God was only using sickness to remind people of his glory then as soon as you got forgiven you would be healed. In our grace administration we do not have to worry about be punished for our sins. And the reason he said that he wouldn't remember them was so that you could forget those things which you did wrong. That you wouldn't have to worry about everything you did wrong after you were forgiven of them. In the grace administration our title is that we are sons of God. I John 3:1-2 1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Being sons of God entitles us to certain things which are outlined in the seven church epistles. Here are a few: II Peter 1:4 4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Philippians 4:13 13) I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. All things, including overcoming sickness. II Corinthians 3:5 5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; God is our sufficiency and supplier. Nothing is too great that we cannot overcome with God behind us. III John 3:2 2) Beloved I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. These are our sonship rights as sons of God. His great love has given us all these things so that we might survive in this corrupted world. God is behind us 100% and will not leave us to sickness. Exodus 15:26 26) "... I am the LORD that healeth thee." God is stated many times in the Bible as our healer. God's very nature is to heal. The four words in Exodus 15:26 are the two Hebrew words Jehovah-rapha. The literal translation of Jehovah is "an immutable promise keeper" The literal translation of rapha is "one who heals" So God must be "an immutable promise keeper who heals." Exodus 23:25 25) And you shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee. Serving is a great way to receive God's blessing, but it's not required. This verse states that he will take sickness away from you. Psalms 107:20 20) He sent his word and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. God's word is a healing word! How awesome! Psalms 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; He forgives ALL your iniquities and heals ALL your diseases. And when it says ALL it means ALL! With no exceptions. God will heal anyone of anything no matter who he is or what he has done if he trusts God to do it! I Peter 2:24 24) Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. We need to stand up and claim this healing as sons of God. God through and through wants to help us with our sickness. How can a God this loving cause us to be sick. How can a God who's very nature is to heal use pain and misery to bring us closer to him. Surely this is not his will for us. Ephesians 1:3 3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: God Bless, be healed!

TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 11:51:24 PM)
quote: So this means you're never going to need medical treatment for a serious illness? Everything you do is a partnership with God. Doctors do some good things and often times we need stuff like that. But I will tell you this that I will always always always go to God first for my healing. Going to God first always is a very important thing. Then oftentimes there are things you need to do to like going to the doctor. I will use a non health related example---- I needed my car to pass emission testing. I prayed about it and went and got my test done and I failed. I was in shock because I thought God would help me pass but I had not done everything I needed to do. While I was sitting there asking God why I didn't make it through he reminded me of a friend who rode in my car who could tell that my car was putting out way too much gas which was probably because my spark plugs were old. He also highlighted a part of the test failure sheet to me that said that spark plugs could be a cause of the problem. I immediately got my spark plugs changed for 15$ (God opened the door for me to save 100$). I went back for my free retest and passed with flying colors. Most of the time believing requires action for God to work in our lives. We can't just sit around and be lazy and wait for God. Is medical treatment necessary? sometimes yes. Is it required? not always. Should you go to God first in every situation? You better believe you should.

Roberta_ -> RE: Question About Healing (7/9/2008 11:55:22 PM)
I believe that we should always go to God first. However, what you're saying sounds like you believe that people will never have problems with terminal illnesses. If they have enough faith, then they will be healed.

TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Question About Healing (7/10/2008 12:02:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DenimDiva I believe that we should always go to God first. However, what you're saying sounds like you believe that people will never have problems with terminal illnesses. If they have enough faith, then they will be healed. It happens. People will have sicknesses and terminal illnesses because Adam gave the world over to Satan. Our flesh was born weak and deteriorates over time. All I'm saying is don't try to put a limit on what God can do for you. God created the Heavens and the Earth. He absolutely can heal any and everything. Sometimes it's just your time to go, but if your believing is right on and God still needed you for something on the Earth I think you would absolutely get healed. Psalms 103:3 3) Who (God) forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; The Bible wouldn't say all and actually mean only certain ones. That would be ridiculous!

doinkdom -> RE: Question About Healing (7/10/2008 10:44:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH quote: ORIGINAL: doinkdom quote: ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH God is also love! And if you love someone you wouldn't want them to be sick. How can God be love and make us sick? It wouldn't make any sense at all. So what do you tell someone who has fibromyalgia or cerebal palsey? They aren't spiritual enough or God doesn't love them enough? What about Joni Erickson Tada? Does God not love her? I would tell them to believe and that they can be healed. No sickness is too great for God to heal. If God can create universes then he can heal anything your body has in you. God created the sun (which isn't even the biggest of it's kind) that has millions of nuclear explosions on it per second and it never runs out of energy (atleast in our lifetime). How can a God that big and powerful not be able to heal certain things. It comes down to believing for God to move for you. They just need to believe God and they will absolutely get healed, there are no exceptions. [sm=popsigh.gif] ok

Psalms274 -> RE: Question About Healing (7/10/2008 11:55:57 AM)
quote: I would tell them to believe and that they can be healed. No sickness is too great for God to heal. If God can create universes then he can heal anything your body has in you. God created the sun (which isn't even the biggest of it's kind) that has millions of nuclear explosions on it per second and it never runs out of energy (at least in our lifetime). How can a God that big and powerful not be able to heal certain things. Yes He can ... but often He doesn't ... not because of sin, or unbelief ... but because He knows what is best and many times it is better for Him to go up the mountain with you than it is for Him to remove the mountain. quote: It comes down to believing for God to move for you. They just need to believe God and they will absolutely get healed, there are no exceptions. This is a very dangerous misinterpretation of the scripture you quoted in post 95. He does not exist to “move for me.” Yes is able to heal all diseases, but He also says in Deut. 32:39 "See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.” He is God … He is a loving God, He is able to heal anything He chooses to heal and even bring back from death, BUT He can do what ever He wants to do. It will always be the best thing, and many times healing may look like the best thing to our finite minds, but in His INFINITE wisdom, He KNOWS what is best and chooses NOT to heal many times for that reason. To tie it with faith and making the statement that He WILL heal IF you have enough faith is a dangerous misinterpretation of scripture. I went to a church that embraced this theology, and cringed when I heard some of the things being taught. (I felt God wanted me there for a reason and stayed for 6 months ... anyways, it's a long story.[:)]) One Sunday the preacher got up and told us about an man who the preacher had lead to the LORD by sharing with the man that God would heal his wife from the coma if he would just believe. The church (and man) were worked up into a frenzy of belief ... and later the woman died and many fell from faith, including the man. They were looking for a machine and or system that would make their life wonderful ... you deposit your unfaltering faith, and He gives you the healing you asked for. I had two friends diagnosed with a terminal illness, one with advanced liver cancer and one with Lou Gehrig's disease. Both believed without a shadow of a doubt that they would be healed by God. Their wives enthusiastically believed with them as did many of their friends and family. God chose to bring them both home. I watched one wife turn her back on God for not "doing what He promised" and the other draw nearer to God because she understood her God could not be wrong for bringing her husband home at that time ... she knew His character and knew, though she did not understand, that He does not make mistakes. She also knew That her husband was now in glory with his Maker and Father ... completely healed. This place we call home is a temporary dwelling place and you seem to be confusing the perfect place that is being prepared for us with the temporary dwelling we find ourselves ... I think Hebrews 11:13 says it best, "All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. Our faith in God is not based on what He can do for us, but it is in Who He Is. When your focus is on getting the "healing that proves His love for you" you miss the real prize of knowing Him ... and show yourself to not know Him as you thought you did. Yes He can heal all things ... He healed me when I did not expect Him to ... but if He had chosen not to it would have been for a better purpose, not because He did not love me or was unable. Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."

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