Dying To Self (Full Version)

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Liveloved -> Dying To Self (6/9/2008 5:37:28 PM)

In these last days the Spirit would bring us to the cross, "That we might know Him". . .being made conformable to His death.

These thoughts on dying to self are wirtten by an unknown source. I will share them slowly, thought by thought, so that we have time to ponder and respond to them. I first read them in a book by John MacArthur called Different by Design.


When you are forgotten, or neglected, or purposely set at naught,
and you sting or hurt with insult or oversight,
but your heart is happy, being counted worthy to suffer for Christ. . .
that is dying to self.



Walker311 -> RE: Dying To Self (6/10/2008 7:26:29 PM)

No one has conquered it.

A majority of Christians stay somewhat disappointed in their lack of self-control. Dying to self seems to be out of reach at least in this lifetime.

I was watching a sci-fi show last night and the main character had met a duplicate of himself who had come from a different part of space-time which was wreaking havoc on reality and the only way to make things right was for the main character to kill the duplicate. It worked!

How often do we wish that we could kill the "old man" that prevents us from being what we believe God created us to be.

The secret to the kingdom of God is to die to self and it often takes a lifetime of living to finally grasp the significance of "for me to live is Christ... to die is gain".



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/10/2008 7:35:25 PM)

quote:

The secret to the kingdom of God is to die to self and it often takes a lifetime of living to finally grasp the significance of "for me to live is Christ... to die is gain".


Amen.

When your good is evil spoken of,
when your wishes are crossed,
your advice disregarded, your opinions ridiculed,
and you refuse to let anger rise in your heart or even defend yourself,
but take it all in patient loving silence. . .
that is dying to self.



drmark -> RE: Dying To Self (6/11/2008 11:54:31 AM)

quote:

No one has conquered it.

A majority of Christians stay somewhat disappointed in their lack of self-control. Dying to self seems to be out of reach at least in this lifetime.
Well, that's not what I read in my Bible! By the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, we can all die to our sinful self natures:

Romans 6:6 - For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Romans 8:13 - If by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

Galatians 5:24 - Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14 - May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Colossians 3:5 - Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature.



stampinlady -> RE: Dying To Self (6/11/2008 12:11:01 PM)

We are to die daily.



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/11/2008 2:39:02 PM)

quote:

By the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, we can all die to our sinful self natures:


I agree. With God nothing is impossible---even the crucifying of the flesh. (I say 'even' because to us, the flesh seems like such a huge adversary but to God our puny little flesh is a nothing. Praise the Lord!)

But the willingness to die is another thing. The flesh does not want to die. And the flesh is a master of deception. It masquerades as religion and the possum is alive and well (as in the flesh life).

So my prayer each day is for God to continue His crucifying work in me for I know that to die is gain. . . and as I die, Christ is exalted.



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/11/2008 2:42:24 PM)

quote:

but take it all in patient loving silence. . .


This is one of the hardest for me. When I read about Hannah and her patient silence, crying out to the Lord, I am convicted of how often I am not bearing these things in patient loving silence. I want my spouse to be compassionate. I want my friends to console me. So I know that this is one of the dying places He is at work in.



drmark -> RE: Dying To Self (6/11/2008 3:10:50 PM)

Not to great side-tracked here, Liveloved, but I am firmly convinced that God wants your spouse to be compassionate and your friends to console you as much if not more than you do. Please don't think that "bearing these things in patient loving silence" makes other folks' disobedience to God's Will your problem. They are accountable for their actions - you are accountable for your responses. Sometimes, others need to know what we're feeling for God to use them to help us. That can also be a part of "dying to self".



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/11/2008 3:31:02 PM)

quote:

Not to great side-tracked here, Liveloved, but I am firmly convinced that God wants your spouse to be compassionate and your friends to console you as much if not more than you do. Please don't think that "bearing these things in patient loving silence" makes other folks' disobedience to God's Will your problem. They are accountable for their actions - you are accountable for your responses. Sometimes, others need to know what we're feeling for God to use them to help us. That can also be a part of "dying to self".


Thank you, drmark, for this reminder. I do have the tendency to think I have to bear all these things alone. That is probably my pride rising up in me. Bless you for your words to me. I desire the helpful correction that points me more and more away from me and towards Him. [:)] LL



kingdust -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 10:05:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

Not to great side-tracked here, Liveloved, but I am firmly convinced that God wants your spouse to be compassionate and your friends to console you as much if not more than you do. Please don't think that "bearing these things in patient loving silence" makes other folks' disobedience to God's Will your problem. They are accountable for their actions - you are accountable for your responses. Sometimes, others need to know what we're feeling for God to use them to help us. That can also be a part of "dying to self".


Thank you, drmark, for this reminder. I do have the tendency to think I have to bear all these things alone. That is probably my pride rising up in me. Bless you for your words to me. I desire the helpful correction that points me more and more away from me and towards Him. [:)] LL


I don't think it is a case of side-tracking but side-branching out to a deeper aspect of denying to self.

Yes, you and God both want your spouse to be compassionate- that is true.

However, what you have to kill is the demanding or now mentality, or expectation that may be right according to the will of God and no doubt right thing to do for us Christians.

Yes, God wanted me to be saved, but He has to wait more than 40 years.
Yes, He wanted to sanctify me but I am taking it at a snail phase.

My point is that what is to be killed is the impatient we have and the thinking of anti-suffering, in order to be patient for others to do as I treat them or I wish them to be.

In that, silent suffering is nothing less than glorious instant reward, because that is what God values the most.

I am not sure if I worded it right.



drmark -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 10:14:58 AM)

quote:

In that, silent suffering is nothing less than glorious instant reward, because that is what God values the most.
I'm sorry, kingdust, but I respectfully disagree. What God values most is our loving obedience! If He wants to sanctify you, then why are you "taking it at a snail's pace"? Is that bringing Him glory? Seems to me most of us could do with a little less suffering and a whole lot more trust!



indigoblue2008 -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 12:01:28 PM)

Lots of good dialog on this exceedingly difficult subject. I say difficult, because it is for me. I became a practicing Christian and follower of Jesus Christ later in life after the damage of my life/choices had been done.
While it s absolutely true that Jesus has forgiven all my sins, it is MY RESPONSIBILITY with the ever present help of the Holy Spirit to live an intentional life for my Saviour.

Friends, true repentence is not easily achieved, one has to make deliberate choices for holiness, goodness, virtue and seek the face of God daily and spend time with Him in His Word. "One week without God makes one weak." For individuals like me who led a damaging life prior to Acceptance of Jesus the uphill climb is often more difficult than one could imagine.

Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ, our minds and the adversaries snares are our battlefields.

Everyday when you awake, a choice is to be made in whom you will serve. Will it be you, or the Lord?



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 12:36:12 PM)

quote:

I don't think it is a case of side-tracking but side-branching out to a deeper aspect of denying to self.

Yes, you and God both want your spouse to be compassionate- that is true.

However, what you have to kill is the demanding or now mentality, or expectation that may be right according to the will of God and no doubt right thing to do for us Christians.

Yes, God wanted me to be saved, but He has to wait more than 40 years.
Yes, He wanted to sanctify me but I am taking it at a snail phase.

My point is that what is to be killed is the impatient we have and the thinking of anti-suffering, in order to be patient for others to do as I treat them or I wish them to be.

In that, silent suffering is nothing less than glorious instant reward, because that is what God values the most.

I am not sure if I worded it right.


Yeah, kingdust! It's good to see you here.

I understand the demanding/impatient parts. Yes, those need to be killed. A hearty amen here---except when I'm in the midst[sm=unsure.gif] and then its more like a hearty groan.

But I'm not sure I understood your sentence on silent suffering. What are you saying God values most?

Anyway, I'd really appreciate your expounding on this for me. Thanks.



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 12:50:01 PM)

quote:

Lots of good dialog on this exceedingly difficult subject. I say difficult, because it is for me. I became a practicing Christian and follower of Jesus Christ later in life after the damage of my life/choices had been done.
While it s absolutely true that Jesus has forgiven all my sins, it is MY RESPONSIBILITY with the ever present help of the Holy Spirit to live an intentional life for my Saviour.

Friends, true repentence is not easily achieved, one has to make deliberate choices for holiness, goodness, virtue and seek the face of God daily and spend time with Him in His Word. "One week without God makes one weak." For individuals like me who led a damaging life prior to Acceptance of Jesus the uphill climb is often more difficult than one could imagine.

Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ, our minds and the adversaries snares are our battlefields.

Everyday when you awake, a choice is to be made in whom you will serve. Will it be you, or the Lord?


Oh my, indigo, you've made some very good points. And I agree this is a difficult topic---mostly because our flesh rebels against it. And regarding your life choices, perhaps you are at an advantage. I am saying this in all seriousness. I mean for those of us who grew up in the faith, our sin is much more deceptive, subtle and sneaky but every bit as sinful. So while your choices perhaps have led to some obvious and permanent (in this life) consequences, they can be dealt with because they are seen, exposed and out in the open. Growing up in the faith can create blindness to certain things because that's what we were taught, saw lived, etc but is sin nonetheless. I hope I've made sense.

But you are very right. Coming from any angle, it is difficult.

And I really appreciate your emphasis on living in repentance and the importance of our daily seeking of His face. If we quietly seek Him and listen as He speaks, He will reveal, expose, and cut away all of these sneaky little sins that seek to destroy. Hallelujah!

I think it takes time for Him to work out salvation in us. Not because of Him, of course, but because of our finiteness and inability to comprehend and deal with all of the sin that is so sneaky. But it is His work to do and for that I am exceedingly thankful. But I also want to be an active and willing participant.

And you are so right about our choice each day. Upon waking and before I get out of bed, I am speaking to the Lord. Jesus draw me close. Let the world around me fade away. For I desire to worship and obey. Some of the words I sang inwardly before setting my feet on the floor this morning.

A very needful reminder. Thank you!



drmark -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 12:51:15 PM)

quote:

Friends, true repentence is not easily achieved, one has to make deliberate choices for holiness, goodness, virtue and seek the face of God daily and spend time with Him in His Word.
If I may clarify one thing here, indigo08. We do not "achieve" spiritual milestones, rather God graciously bestows them on us. But, you are 100% right about making deliberate, consistent choices that honor Christ. That is exactly what "dying to self" is all about! I must decrease so that He may increase.



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 12:52:13 PM)

When you lovingly and patiently bear any disorder,
any irregularity, any impunctuality, or any annoyance.
When you stand face to face with waste, folly, extravagance, spiritual insensibility
and endure it as Jesus endured it. . .
that is dying to self.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 6:25:54 PM)

Dieing to self means you love God more than you love you.



Liveloved -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 7:22:39 PM)

quote:

Dieing to self means you love God more than you love you.


I agree. Our life is a love transfer.



kingdust -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 9:05:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

In that, silent suffering is nothing less than glorious instant reward, because that is what God values the most.
I'm sorry, kingdust, but I respectfully disagree. What God values most is our loving obedience! If He wants to sanctify you, then why are you "taking it at a snail's pace"? Is that bringing Him glory? Seems to me most of us could do with a little less suffering and a whole lot more trust!


Thank you for correction, drmark.

I guess you disagreed because I didn't say right.

Some people change overnight while others take more than a decade to go from point A to point B.
If everybody does change instantly, I think God doesn't need to have long suffering as love.
We also don't need to suffer long because everybody we pray for stop doing evil overnight and become saints the next day.
What a joy!?

Not that I enjoy disobeying God, but that my hard heard is that tough to break open.
I hope knowing and doing are equally easy.

When I mentioned about the silent suffering, I meant it to belong to the righteous who sufferes not from own faults but others, yet, not sounding displeasure or discontent.
Like, if a husband is a hard man, then, his wife who prays for husband to change is to suffer the violence until the very last moment God finally changes the husband.

Many suffer from other's faults or shortcomings without keeping it to self but sounding off.
But, if we can take it with no sound, silently that is, I believe that is a glory of God who does the same- long silent suffering for the sake of love.

Don't we have enough thorns of own plus others in the body of Church of God, offending and being offended?
If we cannot remove those thorns because of the sufficent grace of God to overcome them, what kind of grace are we talking about?
What else but suffering silently for the glory of God?



kingdust -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 9:15:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
But I'm not sure I understood your sentence on silent suffering. What are you saying God values most?

Anyway, I'd really appreciate your expounding on this for me. Thanks.


I wasn't sure but now I am sure that I didn't say right.

I believe, when we suffer silently for the glory of God, that is valued most by God who did and still does the same for us, because we can share the burden of God at least a bit.

Am I making sense?



makarizo -> RE: Dying To Self (6/12/2008 9:42:49 PM)

can't remember the exact wording..... from a teacher a looooong time ago

'dying to self is impossible AND it is so easy'

we surrender, and God does a work in our lives, and it is all in His time. And nothing we do could possibly earn or merit, or deserve the grace that is freely given to those who will believe.

I can do all things thru Christ who strengthens me.



kingdust -> RE: Dying To Self (6/13/2008 7:09:13 AM)

quote:

'dying to self is impossible AND it is so easy'


Yes, it is impossible to break a stuborn iron-like will or wish, but when it turned out to be a midst, it vanishes without a trail.

Iron mixed with midst- that is what self is all about.

It is so much like the toes of a strange statute in the Bible, made of iron mixed with clay, very strong yet fregile.

The hard and big head is supported by such a mixture!



timf -> RE: Dying To Self (6/13/2008 9:25:33 AM)

2 Corinthians 5:15
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



URForgiven -> RE: Dying To Self (6/13/2008 10:10:38 AM)

Dying to self is giving up our independence and self-sufficiency, and placing out dependence in Christ and His sufficiency, and is the result of a true understanding of what Gods grace is and what it has accomplished in us.

Dying to self is true repentance...and there is absolutely nothing easy about it! Our flesh is constantly fighting for prominence.

When legalists talk about grace as easy believism, it is obvious the only way they could ever come to that conclusion is because they have never actually tried it...because it is not easy! What Paul describes in Romans 7 is the experience of every Christian, under grace, who is abiding in Christ.

Dying to self, denying self and placing our dependence in Jesus instead of in ourselves goes against everything we are in our flesh. And that flesh does not go away, it does not get better, it does not improve. It can only be controlled, and it can only be controlled by the Spirit of Jesus Christ that now indwells us.

What Gods grace accomplishes in us is the freedom to be who we were created to be...Gods Children. Indwelt by Him, Spiritually alive, and available at all times for Him to do what He desires to do in and through us, to His glory. Dying to self, is the moment by moment placing of ourselves into dependence upon Jesus, offering our bodies to Him as living sacrifices, which is altogether pleasing to Him...this is our spiritual act of worship.

Peace



drmark -> RE: Dying To Self (6/13/2008 10:29:25 AM)

quote:

What Paul describes in Romans 7 is the experience of every Christian, under grace, who is abiding in Christ.
No, what Paul describes in Romans 8 is the experience of every Christian, under grace, who is abiding in Christ:

Verse 2 - through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death

Verse 4 - [we] do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit

Verse 5 - those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires

Verse 6 - the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace

Verse 9 - you are controlled by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you

Verse 10 - if Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness

Verse 13 - if you live according to the Spirit, you will live

Romans 8 is all about dying to self. Romans 7 is all about being a wretched (wo)man who needs rescue from this body of death (verse 24). Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord - that He can enable us to die to self and abide in Him!



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