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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/11/2008 9:19:11 PM
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nicole6598
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Zippy has a good idea there. I don't know Christina, I don't think people should be making us do things we don't want to do, but your mum really doesn't sound mentally stable at the moment. I wouldn't go saying anything to her at the moment about not moving in with you. I think the main priority is to help her seek some help so that when you are firm with her she can take it.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/11/2008 9:43:15 PM
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manda59
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Christina
I feel it bears repeating that your mother is not your responsibility, and her mental health is not your responsibility. She is an adult, and responsible for herself.
If you feel she is depressed and might benefit from someone to talk to, perhaps you could suggest that she makes an appointment with a church pastor.
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"That's what I would say as well."
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/11/2008 9:48:54 PM
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HisCovenant
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I agree, Manda, but would like to hear your opinion about something because I don't know much about mental health issues. You can PM me if this is off topic.
If Christina's mother is having a mental health problem, then she is not in a mental position to take responsibility for herself. If she was able, then we wouldn't call it a mental health issue. Maybe it depends on the type of mental health issue? IDK, but could you explain further? What am I missing?
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/11/2008 10:06:12 PM
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nicole6598
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I am with Zippy, if she is depressed and not coping how can she look after herself? She needs someone to sort of step in and help until she is able to make rational and clear decisions.
I don't think kicking her mum when she is down is going to be good for anyone. God says to honour your parents, Christina would be honoring her by helping her get the help that she needs. It doesn't mean she is taking responsibility for her at all. She is being a daughter, she is helping her mother at a time when her mother needs her, needs someone. And if Christina can't do it then find someone that they both trust to help. That doesn't mean she has to hold her hand through it all, but if it was my mother (and we all know how my relationship with my mother is) I would sit down with her, find some places to call and help her call them, take her to the appointment if I felt she wouldn't go alone and then let the professional help. But sometimes when you are in a foggy place you need someone to come along side and sort of push you. I know I did with my depression.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/11/2008 10:25:05 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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OR is far more liberal than WA, and I know here in WA that if you can be diagnosed with some sort of mental illness (and I don't know the extent or anything) you CAN receive public support and medical. My middle sister has gone this route. She got in touch with some social agency or another which guided her through the process. You may want to do some calling around.
Of course, the last thing this woman probably needs is encouragement not to work, but medical care might be nice.
In the meantime, as the ONLY woman in my family (biologically-speaking) NOT on anti-depressants, Levity Vitamins really do help with this condition. Thankfully I have enough posts that I don't think I'll be accused of advertising or spam, lol, but really, they can be a lifesaver. Depression in women is many times a vitamin deficiency, and Levity is formulated based on studies of depressed women.
Even depressed, though, your mom seems to have a history of relying on others to take care of her. I would not encourage this. I would limit my help to helping her help herself.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/11/2008 10:27:01 PM
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nicole6598
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Yep Jenny, helping her to help herself is what I am thinking. I think by getting her mental health issues under control it would do EVERYONE the world of good!
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 1:15:03 AM
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Mrs.X
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Yeah, I'm thinking there's gotta be something out there. My hubby and I went to Good Sam for some counselling ont he other side of town. I wonder if there may be one on her side of town. I'll have to look around on the DHS website too.
Jenny, can you buy Levity vitamins at like Freddy's and Winco, or only a place like GNC? Are they safe for nursing women?
Manda, if she was a normal person, I'd probably be able to step back a bit. But, last time it took some jogger pulling her out of the ocean and calling the police for her to get help. Maybe that's why I was so afraid of telling her she wouldn't be able to stay with us if/when she gets evicted.
I really gotta go to bed, but I'll post more tomorrow. Thank you all for ideas.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 6:29:21 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
If Christina's mother is having a mental health problem, then she is not in a mental position to take responsibility for herself. If she was able, then we wouldn't call it a mental health issue. Maybe it depends on the type of mental health issue? IDK, but could you explain further? What am I missing?
I don't recall Christina having given us any indication that her mother is not capable of looking after herself.
Christina, is your mother getting herself up and washed and dressed every day? Eating properly, taking care of herself, shopping etc?
Asking her if she'd be open to getting any help for how she is feeling at the moment (if she has said how she is feeling) would be a good idea, but it's not something you can force - unless you feel she is incapable of looking after herself and need to have her committed to a psychiatric hospital/nursing home.
Is there psychiatric help available in your State for those who do not have insurance?
Does your mother have a faith btw? I am sorry if you said before (I don't remember).
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 6:35:53 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
I don't think kicking her mum when she is down is going to be good for anyone.
That's very unpleasant emotive language, Nicole. No-one has advocating Christina "kicking" her mother when she is down. Being tough, and setting healthy appropriate boundaries is not kicking anyone.
The danger here is that her mother could end up taking Christina down with her (emotionally). Christina should honour her mother, yes - but that could mean simply being pleasant and civil with her, and praying for her. It does not mean she has to be closely involved with her. Christina's FIRST priority has to be her husband and children (and herself).
Unless her mother is incapable of looking after herself and deciding for herself (in which case residential care should be investigated), her mother is responsible for herself and what she chooses to do, responsible for deciding whether she seeks/accepts proper help.
What we don't know here is whether her mother is really mentally unwell, or just attention-seeking, and trying to avoid taking responsibility for herself.
I echo Jenny's concern here:
quote:
Even depressed, though, your mom seems to have a history of relying on others to take care of her. I would not encourage this. I would limit my help to helping her help herself.
Absolutely.
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"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 6:40:06 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelMagnolia
Manda, if she was a normal person, I'd probably be able to step back a bit. But, last time it took some jogger pulling her out of the ocean and calling the police for her to get help. Maybe that's why I was so afraid of telling her she wouldn't be able to stay with us if/when she gets evicted.
How long ago did this happen, Christina, and what help was she given at the time?
I am cynical about many suicide attempts. My thoughts are that if people really want to take their lives, they plan it to the nth degree and make sure there is no-one else around. It's quite possible that she saw the jogger and knew she'd be seen. Cries for help are valid of course, but they need to be seen as such, without any unnecessary drama being attributed.
For the record, my mother is depressed. If she took her own life, I would not blame myself. She is responsible for herself, and it would be her own choice.
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Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 10:23:03 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelMagnolia
Manda, if she was a normal person, I'd probably be able to step back a bit. But, last time it took some jogger pulling her out of the ocean and calling the police for her to get help. Maybe that's why I was so afraid of telling her she wouldn't be able to stay with us if/when she gets evicted.
How long ago did this happen, Christina, and what help was she given at the time?
I am cynical about many suicide attempts. My thoughts are that if people really want to take their lives, they plan it to the nth degree and make sure there is no-one else around. It's quite possible that she saw the jogger and knew she'd be seen. Cries for help are valid of course, but they need to be seen as such, without any unnecessary drama being attributed.
You can be cynical all day long and it doesn't change a thing. You have no way of knowing Christina's Mom's state of mind when she made this attempt and I think you assume way too much...possibly even recklessly so. You have obviously not been in a place where suicide seemed to be the only "hope" to end your suffering. Attempting suicide is proof that someone is mentally ill...giving serious thought or action to it goes against the thinking of a sane and rational person. I have been there...several times before I knew Jesus Christ...and I can tell you I was dead serious each time I attempted and it was only by the grace of God that I survived.
quote:
For the record, my mother is depressed. If she took her own life, I would not blame myself. She is responsible for herself, and it would be her own choice.
Yes, it is ultimately the "choice" of the person that commits suicide, but it would be pathetic and unconscionable for anyone to stand by and watch and do nothing while their loved one slipped to those depths without making any attempt to help them.
Christina, there is help available to your Mother. Please seek it out. If it were not for God, and the love and support of my family, I am fairly sure I would be dead today. When I was depressed, I was simply paralyzed and unable to seek out help for myself.
I realize that your Mom can't come to live with you if she is evicted, but I think from everything you've said here, this woman likely has a serious untreated clinical depression. It is not normal for someone to do the things she has done and a lot of her past behaviors scream that she likely has some form of mental illness.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nicole
I am with Zippy, if she is depressed and not coping how can she look after herself? She needs someone to sort of step in and help until she is able to make rational and clear decisions.
I don't think kicking her mum when she is down is going to be good for anyone. God says to honour your parents, Christina would be honoring her by helping her get the help that she needs. It doesn't mean she is taking responsibility for her at all. She is being a daughter, she is helping her mother at a time when her mother needs her, needs someone. And if Christina can't do it then find someone that they both trust to help. That doesn't mean she has to hold her hand through it all, but if it was my mother (and we all know how my relationship with my mother is) I would sit down with her, find some places to call and help her call them, take her to the appointment if I felt she wouldn't go alone and then let the professional help. But sometimes when you are in a foggy place you need someone to come along side and sort of push you. I know I did with my depression.
As you probably already can tell, Christina, I highly agree with Nicole and Zippy. I think you love your Mother very much. She sacrificed to raise you alone, now this may be a time you can really help her and I just don't think you can leave her to fend alone in her present condition.
Your mother needs a Mental health evaluation at the very least. I know she has no insurance, but check with your local County Mental Health and they may be able to treat her...or check with Medi-Cal. There is likely help available out there for her, but she may just need you to help her find it and direct her to it.
Please continue to reach out to her and love her...she needs you,
Edited to correct spelling.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 6/12/2008 10:32:32 AM >
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 1:24:13 PM
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Mrs.X
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
I don't recall Christina having given us any indication that her mother is not capable of looking after herself.
Christina, is your mother getting herself up and washed and dressed every day? Eating properly, taking care of herself, shopping etc?
Asking her if she'd be open to getting any help for how she is feeling at the moment (if she has said how she is feeling) would be a good idea, but it's not something you can force - unless you feel she is incapable of looking after herself and need to have her committed to a psychiatric hospital/nursing home.
Is there psychiatric help available in your State for those who do not have insurance?
Does your mother have a faith btw? I am sorry if you said before (I don't remember).
I'm actually not sure how she's doing, so it's hard to say if she's incapable or not. I just talked to her close friend, C. C said she's is worried about her too, but I don't think C knows everything about my mom's past, so she doesn't know the clues to look for. I can't make it over to mom's until a week from Friday.
There is a mental health agency in her county that may be able to help her if she needs that kind of help.
My mom was raised Catholic, but I'm pretty sure she is Agnostic now.
quote:
How long ago did this happen, Christina, and what help was she given at the time?
8ish years ago. I think I was 16. After the guy pulled her out of the water and the police were called, I think the police took her straight to the funny farm. She continued counselling and received Welbutrin.
quote:
I am cynical about many suicide attempts. My thoughts are that if people really want to take their lives, they plan it to the nth degree and make sure there is no-one else around. It's quite possible that she saw the jogger and knew she'd be seen. Cries for help are valid of course, but they need to be seen as such, without any unnecessary drama being attributed.
I don't know for sure if it was merely a cry for help or a real attempt. I guess it all depends on if she knew the jogger was there. It was 6am on a normally empty beach.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 1:41:01 PM
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Mrs.X
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quote:
Yes, it is ultimately the "choice" of the person that commits suicide, but it would be pathetic and unconscionable for anyone to stand by and watch and do nothing while their loved one slipped to those depths without making any attempt to help them.
I believe that was my mistake when I was 16. Sure, it's not my fault that she had/has a chemical inbalance, but if I had told my grandma or dad about what was going on at home before we got evicted and "lost it all" everything could have been prevented perhaps. It's not my fault everything happened the way it did, but I probably could have prevented it. I won't make that mistake again.
If she is able to call me, or when I go to her house in a week and half, I'll be having a serious heart-to-heart with her. C will be calling me after she goes to visit my mom on Saturday. I wasn't sure if I ought to reveal anything to her about my mom's past because mom is a very private person and gets really mad if I tell anyone anything about her. I didn't know if it was totally necessary.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 2:07:02 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5430
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelMagnolia
I believe that was my mistake when I was 16. Sure, it's not my fault that she had/has a chemical inbalance, but if I had told my grandma or dad about what was going on at home before we got evicted and "lost it all" everything could have been prevented perhaps. It's not my fault everything happened the way it did, but I probably could have prevented it. I won't make that mistake again.
Christina,
You were a child, you couldn't have known how serious things were, you really must not blame yourself for it was not your responsibility. It is very different, as an adult, to look back to when you were a child, and start telling yourself how you should have done things differently - but the difference is that you are an adult now, with an adult's mind, you didn't have that then.
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Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 2:14:32 PM
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manda59
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
You have obviously not been in a place where suicide seemed to be the only "hope" to end your suffering.
Actually, you presume incorrectly.
quote:
Yes, it is ultimately the "choice" of the person that commits suicide, but it would be pathetic and unconscionable for anyone to stand by and watch and do nothing while their loved one slipped to those depths without making any attempt to help them.
I was not advocating Christina standing by, watching and doing nothing. I was making the point that unless the person themselves chooses to seek and accept help, there is nothing you can do, unless of course they are deemed incapable and sectioned (forcibly taken into psychiatric care by court order).
Christina can research help/resources, but it is ultimately her mother's decision, and she is not responsible for what her mother chooses, once the options have been presented to her.
My concern is that if people here try to guilt-trip Christina, and add to the feelings of guilt and responsibility she already clearly feels, she may start to oppose her husband and insist that her mother comes to stay - even it costs her her marriage and her own mental well-being.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 2:28:05 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2330
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From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
My concern is that if people here try to guilt-trip Christina, and add to the feelings of guilt and responsibility she already clearly feels, she may start to oppose her husband and insist that her mother comes to stay - even it costs her her marriage and her own mental well-being.
Don't worry, Manda. I have it worked out in my head already. I don't submit to Robert when he is asking me to sin, but other times, I really need to. The Bible says to leave and cleave, so he isn't asking me to sin. She won't be living with us. If he told me I couldn't help her look for help (or forcibly help her if I discover she is unable to help herself), well then I'd tell him what he can do with himself.
< Message edited by SteelMagnolia -- 6/12/2008 2:34:34 PM >
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 8:01:29 PM
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nicole6598
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I just wanted to add that I don't believe her mum living with Christina is the best idea, but helping her mother get mentally stable is what is needed so that she can get a job and a home on her own etc.
Also, we need to always be thinking of what God would have us do. How does He tell us to treat others? We are to treat them with love, grace, compassion, we are to honour our parents and to forgive those who have hurt us. I think it is easy to just say "they should take responsibility for themselves" but it takes alot of strength in Christ to be able to say "you know what, you hurt me, but I forgive you and I want to make sure you are ok, what is it that you need to get to a place where you can be taking responsibility as it appears you are having trouble at the moment"
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 8:08:02 PM
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manda59
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Nicole,
Healthy boundaries (which involve tough love) are Scriptural.
Scripture tells us to carry one another's burdens (be a listening ear), but that each one must carry their own load (take responsibility for oneself).
Healthy boundaries are appropriate for everyone, not just for some.
< Message edited by manda59 -- 6/12/2008 8:50:35 PM >
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 8:55:56 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6656
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
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quote:
Jenny, can you buy Levity vitamins at like Freddy's and Winco, or only a place like GNC? Are they safe for nursing women?
You used to be able to get them at Wally's but they recently quit carrying them. The ONLY place here in the Mid-Columbia that I have found them is the Vitamin Superstore (GNC does not carry them).
Look them up online. Seriously these are real vitamins-no funky stuff. They are definitely safe for pregnant or nursing women. In fact, I have a friend who overcame PPD with a combo of these and the estrogen patch for 6 weeks postpartum.
Christina, when you grow up with something, it seems normal and right to you. I know you know this. I didn't realize every town didn't have nuclear fallout shelters and houses that look just alike, and I also didn't realize that it's wrong for a child to be waiting for a parent to come home safely and not the other way around. I totally understand where you have been, because I have been there, as well. I can see you have made progress, but do be careful not to let false guilt and other emotions direct your actions.
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Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/12/2008 11:53:28 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2330
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
Jenny, can you buy Levity vitamins at like Freddy's and Winco, or only a place like GNC? Are they safe for nursing women?
You used to be able to get them at Wally's but they recently quit carrying them. The ONLY place here in the Mid-Columbia that I have found them is the Vitamin Superstore (GNC does not carry them).
Look them up online. Seriously these are real vitamins-no funky stuff. They are definitely safe for pregnant or nursing women. In fact, I have a friend who overcame PPD with a combo of these and the estrogen patch for 6 weeks postpartum.
Christina, when you grow up with something, it seems normal and right to you. I know you know this. I didn't realize every town didn't have nuclear fallout shelters and houses that look just alike, and I also didn't realize that it's wrong for a child to be waiting for a parent to come home safely and not the other way around. I totally understand where you have been, because I have been there, as well. I can see you have made progress, but do be careful not to let false guilt and other emotions direct your actions.
I checked the Geneva Levity website, and it looks like the only place I can get them is on the internet. But, I did find them for $9.95 for 60 tablets. What a steal. So, I'll probably order 2 bottles and see mom wants to try them. She always had at least mild depression, so even if she isn't totally down in the dumps right now, it would probably still benefit her. Mine is more situational depression like dealing with quitting smoking, grouchy husband, rainy weather.
quote:
Christina, when you grow up with something, it seems normal and right to you.
Yeah, you are so right about that. I was able to un-learn some of that stuff in Alateen, but I think since I stopped going, I've just forgotten and the abnormal became normal again. Talk about lifelong disease. My best friend still has the phone numbers to the neighborhood bars memorized.
quote:
I didn't realize every town didn't have nuclear fallout shelters and houses that look just alike
That's funny you say that because when I was kid growing up in San Francisco, I thought only houses in the movies have front yards, but in the real world everyone has stoops. I thought that until I moved to the 'burbs.
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From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House (new music)
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/17/2008 7:32:04 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2330
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From: Newberg, OR
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I called my mom's neighbor yesterday, but my mom wasn't at home L told me. L said she'd have my mom call me back when she got back. L said my mom went to Social Services (welfare office). I supposed she'd qualify for food stamps now. But, my mom never called me back. I know she doesn't like L listening to her conversations, but I know that my mom's best friend C visited her last night, and she didn't use C's phone to call me. So, I'm wondering if she is angry with me, or feels ashamed...I dunno. I wish I could just drive over there and settle it, but I can't until Friday.
I called C 4ish days ago, and she said my mom seemed to be doing OK. She also said that my mom told her that she already applied at Guardsmark prior to going on vacation with us all. But, my mom told me she hadn't applied there yet. So, she lied to Connie who is her best friend. That's not a good sign.
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MySpace
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RE: Had a blowing up with my mom - 6/17/2008 7:38:37 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5430
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelMagnolia
So, I'm wondering if she is angry with me, or feels ashamed...I dunno. I wish I could just drive over there and settle it, but I can't until Friday.
I understand that you are concerned, and rightly so - just be careful that you don't allow her silence to manipulate you. It could be that she is not in her right mind, or it could be that she is doing a passive-aggressive number in order to try and wear you down and get you on her side.
I will be praying for wisdom and discernment for you. And peace and comfort.
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"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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