RE: Fake Homeschoolers (Full Version)

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IonMoon -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 11:19:49 AM)

Alright... apparently this opinion is going to be unpopular... but I think you should mind your own business.

Being available as a support person to give advice or help if asked, sure. Stepping in... no.

You have said you have little contact with these people- and over the past several months NO contact with them. You have said mom seems defensive and doesn't want to share anything with you- well, I personally would feel the same if I thought someone had a negative opinion of me (even if they were trying to "help").

And it sounds like all or most of your opinion is based on info you are getting from the dd (filtered through your dd).

The fact that you don't like their choices does not necessarily mean they are harmful or abusive. People do things differently. Some people yell. Some people believe that girls should have an active role in housekeeping/caring for siblings.

To be honest, with the stressors you listed, I think I would look pretty dysfunctional, too!

Tara P



shadowspring -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 11:50:40 AM)

allisonbrett and Nashga5,

Thank you for sharing your professional experience and opinions. And thank you for bothering to go to work and try to make the world a better place every day. May God richly reward you for your efforts!


quote:

What if they get sent to an old lady and she slaps them in the face with a yardstick?
What if they never go to church?
What if it takes a couple of years and being sent to a half dozen or so foster homes before a good relative can finally get them out of foster care?
hmm, I guess I don't like the foster care/cps system very much, either!!


How do you know this isn't better than what the girl is living with now? Listen to those who come from abusive homes- what people outside the home see is usually only the tip of the iceberg. You don't know that she is not being abused worse than any of the above now.

Why not let the authorities do their job and investigate and they can determine what actions (if any) needs to be taken to help this teen?

CPS/the police are NOT the devil incarnate! Many, many caring professionals are in this line of work because they want to help children and make the world a better place.

Honestly, as allisonbrett wrote, the odds that this child would be removed from the home are s-l-i-m. If anything is done at all, it would be taking some sort of action to ensure the young lady has access to an education.

This teen does deserve an education!

As far as "turning in" fake home schoolers, that is the job of the state to identify people who are not in compliance with the law. It is not our job to turn them in to anyone for doing a poor job.

However it is everyone's job to report someone who is denying their child an education and keeping them at home to babysit their younger siblings. Being a home schooler personally does not exempt anyone from reporting abuse/neglect.

I applaud cynthia for not rushing to judgement. She has obviously given this a lot of thought and prayer.

I pray this young lady does get access to an education somehow, as being functionally illiterate will make everything in her life excruciatingly hard for her in our society.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 1:21:31 PM)

FYI, Judy's 'what if' examples were part of her personal, and very terrible and traumatic, experience with CPS being involved in her family.



MrsDC -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 1:43:23 PM)

Hi, Cynthia!
I didn't take the time to read all 3 pages of comments, but I wanted to encourage you in this situation. More than likely, this has been said. If so, well, I'll say it again and if not, it should have been![;)] The most important thing your family can do for this family is to actively pray for them. You and your daughter should be joining in prayer daily for their lives -- both physical and spiritual. "The fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." God isn't blind to this situation; you should be praying a trusting Him to work it out according to his plan.

The other thing that pops into my mind is that, although it seems that "Alice" should have a chance at a "life of her own", one has to consider the other 5 kids. What will happen to them if Alice leaves? If she is the stabilizing factor of the family, should she really be removed from it? Where we live there are many, MANY instances of 15 yos tending the family. In fact, if a 15yo girl DOESN'T take care of her younger siblings, she's considered lazy and selfish. In most large families that I know (and I know a BUNCH), the older kids generally tend the younger and take care of the house.

It does sound like this family goes WAY beyond the norm in so many ways. I'm not saying that what this family is going through is either good or correct -- I doubt that it's in God's perfect plan for them. God is, however, still in control of them and He will work everything out ultimately for the good of those who love Him. SOOOO...I would think that the most important thing you can do for this family is to pray that they would come to LOVE GOD. That, as they say, changes everything.

OK, my time's up! Gotta go pick up my van from the oil-change place.

I hope that this was encouraging to you!!!

Blessings!
-- Rebecca



shadowspring -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 1:52:53 PM)

I am sorry to hear that judii also suffered a traumatic childhood. (((((judii)))))



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 3:53:46 PM)

It wasn't her childhood. This was a recent experience. A lot of people DO have these terrible experiences--the reputation the system has is well-earned. No, it doesn't fail every time, but it definitely comes by this reputation honestly.



cynthia -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/14/2008 9:38:23 PM)

Many things to think about. Many of you have articulated my reasons why I didn't call cps before and why I don't want to call them now. One of which is that I’m not really sure this is any of my business. Even with my strong feelings on the matter, I’m still not really sure about that. I disagree with a lot of people’s parenting choices, but wouldn’t consider doing anything about it, simply because it’s none of my business. With them in another state and me not in direct contact with the family or the girl, I think contacting CPS would be ridiculous at this point. Besides that, the people just had a house fire and a son in the hospital with a serious illness. I believe they love their children and don’t think they are entirely incompetent parents. My main concern is that their fifteen year old daughter and her lack of education. Furthermore, school is probably out there, or it is about to be out.

I realize that I do need to pray for them more fervently. At this point, I am not being led to call anyone, but am feeling that more prayer is necessary. I like what Rebecca said about praying for them daily with my daughter. That struck me very deeply. I think that is the best thing I can do to help them. They have a lot of very serious issues and I wonder if anyone is really praying for them daily. They don’t seem to have anyone close to them that would do so, but it could be that the Lord is speaking the hearts of many, like me, who are choosing to pray and seek the Lord for their family. Or perhaps no one is praying for them but us. Either way, they surely need prayer. I would really like to do that and especially with my daughter.

I was feeling very pressed that maybe I was wrong and should call CPS, but now I realize that, unless the Lord speaks something else to my heart, prayer and only prayer is what I ought to be doing.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 3:19:38 AM)

quote:

Where we live there are many, MANY instances of 15 yos tending the family. In fact, if a 15yo girl DOESN'T take care of her younger siblings, she's considered lazy and selfish. In most large families that I know (and I know a BUNCH), the older kids generally tend the younger and take care of the house.


That's what I kept thinking. True, this girl's situation is not optimum, and I'm not saying her parents are right, but, around the world, this really isn't so unusual.

As far as her education, if she starts jr. college when she turns 18, she can certainly fill in the gaps then. Most 2 year colleges offer remedial classes. It may mean it takes her a little longer to get through school, but that's OK. I would imagine homeschoolers of all people wouldn't have the mentality that EVERYONE has to finish their four year degree by age 22, or even that a 4 year degree is the right path for EVERYONE.



IonMoon -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 9:47:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia
My main concern is that their fifteen year old daughter and her lack of education. Furthermore, school is probably out there, or it is about to be out.

I like what Rebecca said about praying for them daily with my daughter. That struck me very deeply. I think that is the best thing I can do to help them.


I agree with the above. I certainly understand the concern you have- esp about the friend. Think of it this way, though... if she were in school under these circumstances, she would still probably not be getting much of an education.

She would likely be miss a lot of school, have trouble getting her work completed, and still be needed after school to help wtih home & siblings. It actually might very well end up causing her MORE stress.

Tara P



Kerrlaw -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 7:39:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

My daughter has a friend who is supposedly homeschooled. Fact is that she isn't homeschooled at all. I have a very dim view of this girl's parents. The mother seems very unstable and the father seems cowed by the mother. The parents are not providing an education for their children.
...


Ah, Memory Lane. [sm=cooltilt.gif]

I remember when I was relatively new to the forums and posted about situations similar to this that I had encountered in my professional life. Several people were quick to tell me that I really didn't understand how homeschooling worked and that I wasn't qualified to judge whether or not the children were being properly schooled. Someone suggested that when I got more posts under my belt that I would understand better. Unfortunately, I'm not any smarter now than I was then. In fact, I may have regressed.[sm=aside.gif]

I have not read any of the responses, but I hope you get some good ones.

You said in the (not quoted) part of the OP that you did not want to notify CPS, so I would suggest that you call the county truant officer, since if the kids are not being schooled at home, they are probably in violation of your state's laws regarding school attendance.



Ellie-Mae -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 7:56:38 PM)

Kerr, You DID get a lot ofposts under your belt so maybe you are a bit more qualified now.[8D]



Kerrlaw -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 8:11:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae

Kerr, You DID get a lot ofposts under your belt so maybe you are a bit more qualified now.[8D]


I was wondering why my pants were getting tight.[sm=cooltilt.gif]



Consecrated2God -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 9:28:06 PM)

It's posts that make your pants tight? Wow, you learn something new every day. [8D]



Kerrlaw -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/15/2008 10:57:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

It's posts that make your pants tight? Wow, you learn something new every day. [8D]


That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



judii1 -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 9:57:07 AM)

quote:

How do you know this isn't better than what the girl is living with now?

That's the problem, no one knows!
quote:

I am sorry to hear that judii also suffered a traumatic childhood. (((((judii)))))

That's not the point at all!
The point was taking care of foster care kids for a year and then asking the worker not to send them home! (We were willing to adopt them) The worker was going to do what was" best for the kids" and sent them home. Less than a year later, they were lost to CPS in another state, and it took 2 whole years for one of their relatives to finally get them!! Two years of hell that they didn't have to go through at all!!!



my3boyshomeschool -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 3:45:34 PM)

I was just going to say something similar. I am a little weary of people who think they "know" what is going on in someone's home. To the OP, it does sound like much of the info you have is coming from the daughter to your daughter. It wouldn't be unusual for a teenager to rebel or "talk trash" about their mother if they were not getting their way about something.

Unless we live we people we really do not know what is going on there and I think that unless you have concrete evidence that you should stay out of it. It sounds like this family has plenty of interaction with those in authority and I am confident with the biases out there about homeschooling that someone would do/say something if they really thougth there was somthing to the situation.

How many of us would be perceived by others of "not really schooling" our children just be because we take a "relaxed" approach? There are several public school teachers at my church and they love to talk about all the homeschoolers they know who "really aren't doing anything." I too could be perceived as controlling and have been accused of that just because I have expectations from my kids!

I know you probably mean well and such, but you already stated you wouldn't take her in because she would be disruptive, so why do you give her so much credibility in regards to the information she is relaying?

If I were you I would just pray for her and ask God, who loves her and knows her family, to intervene if it is necessary. JMO

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp

Alright... apparently this opinion is going to be unpopular... but I think you should mind your own business.

Being available as a support person to give advice or help if asked, sure. Stepping in... no.

You have said you have little contact with these people- and over the past several months NO contact with them. You have said mom seems defensive and doesn't want to share anything with you- well, I personally would feel the same if I thought someone had a negative opinion of me (even if they were trying to "help").

And it sounds like all or most of your opinion is based on info you are getting from the dd (filtered through your dd).

The fact that you don't like their choices does not necessarily mean they are harmful or abusive. People do things differently. Some people yell. Some people believe that girls should have an active role in housekeeping/caring for siblings.

To be honest, with the stressors you listed, I think I would look pretty dysfunctional, too!

Tara P



shadowspring -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 5:02:24 PM)

So Judii was the foster parent as well? I guess she does recognize then that sometimes children are better off in foster care, as she firmly believes the kids in her care would have been best served by staying with her and not returning to their bios at all.

But I don't get how her experience proves that staying wtih bios at all costs is always best for the children. I mean no disrespect at all, but it seems to me her story points in the complete opposite direction. [&:]



cynthia -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 5:17:19 PM)

This thread is not a question as to whether I know if the girl is being educated or not. She isn't. Flat out. I know this from:
a. speaking to the mother repeatedly over a period of years
b. speaking to the father
c. speaking to two of the children repeatedly
d. being in their home
e. being told by other people who have known the mother since childhood (and whose husband confronted the father of this family who admitted that it was true)
f. listening to the concerns of mutual friends
g. ect. ect.

The above mentioned is for clarification purposes only. It is not up for debate in any way shape or form.

For the purposes of this thread, the eldest child is not being educated academically in anyway, shape or form. This is not up for debate. If you think this should be up for debate, don't post here.



Ellie-Mae -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 5:22:53 PM)

Cindy, if you got her a subscription to an educational site or curriculum given over the internet, do you think that she would be allowed to use it or have a computer with good enough internet connection?



cynthia -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 5:46:09 PM)

I don't know. At this point, there isn't anything at all that I can do. I'll see if they make it out here for a visit and see if there is anything I can do at that time. In the mean time, we'll keep praying. I believe the Lord has placed this on our hearts for a reason.



Auben -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 7:17:35 PM)

Have you thought about motivating and helping her through non-curriculum sources?



cynthia -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 7:26:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Auben

Have you thought about motivating and helping her through non-curriculum sources?

Hmm. I wonder if TL would be interested in looking over some books our library has and seeing if she thinks Alice would be interested in checking them out, if they are available in her area.

Is that what you mean? Alice's main problem is with math. She should be able to learn anything else since she can read and use the library. It's the math she is struggling with. She needs something to help her in that area, as her parents either cannot or will not teach her. Do you have any recommendations?



cindybode -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 7:31:02 PM)

Are her parents really resistant to having her learn? I wonder if she could just check out a math text from the library and work through it herself.



cynthia -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 7:36:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cindybode

Are her parents really resistant to having her learn? I wonder if she could just check out a math text from the library and work through it herself.

I'm wondering that too. I would think if she checked some stuff out from the library it would be okay, especially if she didn't make a big deal out of it.



Ellie-Mae -> RE: Fake Homeschoolers (6/16/2008 7:56:56 PM)

In Russ' Math Q&A thread, I gave a website where there is math curriculum for free that she could do on her own.



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