RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (Full Version)

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Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 5:40:05 PM)

Well, our L-rd was of the Hebrew culture. That culture included sports, games, and other pleasurable pass times. While He lived on earth a little bit before the time of 8-tracks, still, the culture had music, and not all of it was religious. In the culture, they even danced! Now, Messiah, not being Baptist, likely danced, especially since He brought up dancing so easily while talking to the crowd. Shall we condemn Him for that? Or maybe for bringing it up? Or for the fact that His ancestor is known for being the original lord of the dance?

While He lived on this earth, He was a part of us. He went to people's homes and enjoyed their company, and (horror of horrors!) all of them were not believers! He was in the Hebrew culture, and He was of the Hebrew culture, even to the point of being accused of being a drunk and a glutton because they were nit-picking and fault-finding.

I know that I have been a bit facetious in some of this, but within that, there is the truth: He does not expect us to be religious, strictly religious, all the time. What He expects, however, is that we do all things to His glory.

We can and should get up and put our feet to the floor to the glory of G-d. We can and should go to the bathroom to the glory of G-d. We can and should brush our teeth to the glory of G-d. We can and should go to work to the glory of G-d. We can and should eat lunch to the glory of G-d. We can and should listen to music to the glory of G-d. Whatever we do is either to the glory of G-d or it is evil, whether it is dancing, singing, eating, playing ball, watching TV.

You will have to make up your mind what glorifies Him and live accordingly, but if you are going to tell others that what they do is not up to your standards, when what they do is not wrong, well, what can I say? It's just wrong, when it goes beyong the plain word of the Bible, the only measure of rightness and of salvation.



RodneyJ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 6:42:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

Well, our L-rd was of the Hebrew culture. That culture included sports, games, and other pleasurable pass times. While He lived on earth a little bit before the time of 8-tracks, still, the culture had music, and not all of it was religious. In the culture, they even danced! Now, Messiah, not being Baptist, likely danced, especially since He brought up dancing so easily while talking to the crowd. Shall we condemn Him for that? Or maybe for bringing it up? Or for the fact that His ancestor is known for being the original lord of the dance?

While He lived on this earth, He was a part of us. He went to people's homes and enjoyed their company, and (horror of horrors!) all of them were not believers! He was in the Hebrew culture, and He was of the Hebrew culture, even to the point of being accused of being a drunk and a glutton because they were nit-picking and fault-finding.

I know that I have been a bit facetious in some of this, but within that, there is the truth: He does not expect us to be religious, strictly religious, all the time. What He expects, however, is that we do all things to His glory.

We can and should get up and put our feet to the floor to the glory of G-d. We can and should go to the bathroom to the glory of G-d. We can and should brush our teeth to the glory of G-d. We can and should go to work to the glory of G-d. We can and should eat lunch to the glory of G-d. We can and should listen to music to the glory of G-d. Whatever we do is either to the glory of G-d or it is evil, whether it is dancing, singing, eating, playing ball, watching TV.

You will have to make up your mind what glorifies Him and live accordingly, but if you are going to tell others that what they do is not up to your standards, when what they do is not wrong, well, what can I say? It's just wrong, when it goes beyong the plain word of the Bible, the only measure of rightness and of salvation.


for the first bold letters, I almost agree with you. I believe he expects us to be, not religious, but Christ-like ALL the time, but He knows it is impossible for us, as mere humans, to do so. However, He DOES expect it of us.

For the second part, it is not for us to make up our minds and live accordingly. The bible is our blueprint for life and it is VERY plain about how we are to live so therefore, our minds need not be made up. It's right there in front of us. This is wrong. This is right. That is the only decision to be made. Which way will we walk? Towards or away from the light. If I make my mind up that cursing and excessive drinking is okay in the sight of our Lord, and then I live accordingly... does that make it right? After all, I have made my mind up, right?

Absurd, I know.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 6:55:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodneyJ
For the second part, it is not for us to make up our minds and live accordingly. The bible is our blueprint for life and it is VERY plain about how we are to live so therefore, our minds need not be made up. It's right there in front of us. This is wrong. This is right. That is the only decision to be made. Which way will we walk? Towards or away from the light. If I make my mind up that cursing and excessive drinking is okay in the sight of our Lord, and then I live accordingly... does that make it right? After all, I have made my mind up, right?

Absurd, I know.

We ALL make up our own minds about what the Bible says. Every one of us read our Bibles through the glasses of our upbringing, our society, and our congregations. Anyone who denies that hasn't given it serious thought.

I have known a LOT of religious people; therefore, I used that term On Purpose. Religious people stun me with their extrabiblical rules they put on others. What religious people do not get is that their religiosity will not improve G-d's salvation. His salvation is clearly written in the Word and does not require human improvement.

For someone to come here and denounce all non-religious music as improper for a believer is astounding.

Yeah, I think that country-western music is almost entirely a sad excuse for "music," that is just my taste: it is not a biblical mandate. I don't like rap or much of modern music, meaning most music on the radio after 1980, but that does not mean that it is all evil; it is simply not my taste in music.

You cannot improve on us as believers by telling us that our music is not right for believers, period.



RodneyJ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:06:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodneyJ
For the second part, it is not for us to make up our minds and live accordingly. The bible is our blueprint for life and it is VERY plain about how we are to live so therefore, our minds need not be made up. It's right there in front of us. This is wrong. This is right. That is the only decision to be made. Which way will we walk? Towards or away from the light. If I make my mind up that cursing and excessive drinking is okay in the sight of our Lord, and then I live accordingly... does that make it right? After all, I have made my mind up, right?

Absurd, I know.

We ALL make up our own minds about what the Bible says. Every one of us read our Bibles through the glasses of our upbringing, our society, and our congregations. Anyone who denies that hasn't given it serious thought.

I have known a LOT of religious people; therefore, I used that term On Purpose. Religious people stun me with their extrabiblical rules they put on others. What religious people do not get is that their religiosity will not improve G-d's salvation. His salvation is clearly written in the Word and does not require human improvement.

For someone to come here and denounce all non-religious music as improper for a believer is astounding.

Yeah, I think that country-western music is almost entirely a sad excuse for "music," that is just my taste: it is not a biblical mandate. I don't like rap or much of modern music, meaning most music on the radio after 1980, but that does not mean that it is all evil; it is simply not my taste in music.

You cannot improve on us as believers by telling us that our music is not right for believers, period.


I did not mean to come off that way as I do listen to music other than just Christian music. Not very much, but some. Nonetheless, the bible has made it clear to us and though "religious" people make their minds up about different verses, I find it extremely difficult to think that the bible is anything other than very plain on how to live a Christian life.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:12:20 PM)

What you find to be plain, I may not see as you do, thus causing confusion between us. What I see as plain will almost surely cause confusion between us. Things are not always that clear because of our cultures, our communities, our societies. Sometimes, even when we spell something out, another cannot see it in the same way.



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:20:23 PM)

Some of us have a few more years of wisdom than others. [;)]



RodneyJ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:25:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

Some of us have a few more years of wisdom than others. [;)]


Thanks for the intelligent discussion.



RodneyJ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:27:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

What you find to be plain, I may not see as you do, thus causing confusion between us. What I see as plain will almost surely cause confusion between us. Things are not always that clear because of our cultures, our communities, our societies. Sometimes, even when we spell something out, another cannot see it in the same way.


Understood.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:31:04 PM)

Well, Rodney, you are new here and perhaps even new to this type of forum. Your humility is beautiful. I should learn from it.



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 7:42:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodneyJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

Some of us have a few more years of wisdom than others. [;)]


Thanks for the intelligent discussion.


When I was your age (I did check your blog out. [;)] ) I thought all secular music was evil. That was the big scare in evangelicalism at the time. Then I grew up and discovered that wasn't the case.



RodneyJ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 8:07:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodneyJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

Some of us have a few more years of wisdom than others. [;)]


Thanks for the intelligent discussion.


When I was your age (I did check your blog out. [;)] ) I thought all secular music was evil. That was the big scare in evangelicalism at the time. Then I grew up and discovered that wasn't the case.


It's a shame that while you grew up in the age department, you didn't grow in vocabulary so that you could discuss instead of add smilies to the conversation.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 8:13:18 PM)

Rodney, I think you misunderstood! Could you erase that before she sees it?



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 8:32:47 PM)

quote:


It's a shame that while you grew up in the age department, you didn't grow in vocabulary so that you could discuss instead of add smilies to the conversation.


It's a shame that a newbie comes in on a discussion and tells everyone that they are sinning by what type of music they listen to. Here's a clue, this is not a new conversation. [8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|] ( You can turn off the smilies if you don't like them in your preferences, by the way.)

As far as the topic, when I was your age, back in the dark ages, I bought the LIE that all secular music was evil. As I grew up and matured in my faith I learned that it was just another scare tactic that was used by the leaders in the evangelical/fundamentalist churches to maintain the control over their congregation. I actually listen to a wide variety of music. I listed a few artist back in this thread as a small sampling of the artists I enjoy. I have a new computer and haven't had a chance to transfer all of my music from the old computer to give an even broader range of artists I listen to on a regular basis. I was going down my list of artists that I'm currently in the mood for.

I did not mention any of the jazz artists, classical music artists, blues, soul, old school R&B, folk, good old fashioned rock and roll in that list I posted earlier. I will say that there are not that many Christian artists out there that bares their soul today like Keith Green and Rich Mullins. Today's Christian artists are owned by labels that the secular artists are owned by now and you can tell it by the way the message has been watered down. It's mostly fluff. I don't care for fluff.

I don't care anymore what others think. I have been freed from that stifling bondage when Sandi Patti and Michael English confessed to having extra-marital affairs while getting on stage day in and day out preaching about faith and righteous living. I understand that they were both imperfect people but it was enough to break the shackles of having to listen to mediocre soul numbing music FOR ME.



RodneyJ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 8:57:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

quote:


It's a shame that while you grew up in the age department, you didn't grow in vocabulary so that you could discuss instead of add smilies to the conversation.


It's a shame that a newbie comes in on a discussion and tells everyone that they are sinning by what type of music they listen to. Here's a clue, this is not a new conversation. [8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|] ( You can turn off the smilies if you don't like them in your preferences, by the way.)

As far as the topic, when I was your age, back in the dark ages, I bought the LIE that all secular music was evil. As I grew up and matured in my faith I learned that it was just another scare tactic that was used by the leaders in the evangelical/fundamentalist churches to maintain the control over their congregation. I actually listen to a wide variety of music. I listed a few artist back in this thread as a small sampling of the artists I enjoy. I have a new computer and haven't had a chance to transfer all of my music from the old computer to give an even broader range of artists I listen to on a regular basis. I was going down my list of artists that I'm currently in the mood for.

I did not mention any of the jazz artists, classical music artists, blues, soul, old school R&B, folk, good old fashioned rock and roll in that list I posted earlier. I will say that there are not that many Christian artists out there that bares their soul today like Keith Green and Rich Mullins. Today's Christian artists are owned by labels that the secular artists are owned by now and you can tell it by the way the message has been watered down. It's mostly fluff. I don't care for fluff.

I don't care anymore what others think. I have been freed from that stifling bondage when Sandi Patti and Michael English confessed to having extra-marital affairs while getting on stage day in and day out preaching about faith and righteous living. I understand that they were both imperfect people but it was enough to break the shackles of having to listen to mediocre soul numbing music FOR ME.


Maybe you should reread my posts. I believe I mentioned that I, too, listen to secular music. Coldplay is one of my favorite bands. Other than that, We the Kings, Journey, Pink Floyd, Jack Johnson, Ben Harper, Elton John, Kelly Clarkson, Flight of the Conchords are also among the music I listen to. I suppose, unlike others, I see this as sinful and yet I ignore it and continue listening. I listen to a lot less of it now but I listen to it, nonetheless. When I first got saved, I sat in a independent fundamentalist baptist church and there is no other church more hell-bent on condemning someone. I have actually grown out of my "all secular music is a one way trip to the hate gates" phase. However, I have gained the position that secular music is NOT God's music. I love Coldplay but nothing about them or their songs is glorifying to my Savior. I know that in no instance would Christ come down and enjoy a Coldplay song with me. Not now and not ever.

If I have misunderstood, I do send my sincere apologies. I love discussion and I am open to other ideas. I try to be as respectful as possible but I suppose with my young age, I am prone to flying off at the tongue without rationally thinking my comments through before letting them loose. Again, for that, I also send my sincere apologies.

ps. the smilies do not bother me but when there is a discussion going, whether it be old, new, overdone, ridiculous, what have you, I do expect more from people than just a goofy little smiley. Input is always welcome and usually expected. A smiley is not input.



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/26/2008 9:12:02 PM)

I like your list of artists there. Good taste. [8D] I have news for you, on message boards where smilies are available it's to be expected that posters will use them to convey the intent meant in the post. Just because someone uses a smiley doesn't mean they have a lowered vocabulary.

Again, for me and me alone, I am not convicted in this area. I do have convictions in other areas that I know is wrong for me. I don't participate in those activities. I also have matured enough in my faith to understand that my convictions are not always other people's convictions.



uncabeeil -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 8:41:22 AM)

Okay, done beating my head against this particular brick wall. [sm=yummy.gif]



stellaluna -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 9:04:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: uncabeeil

Okay, done beating my head against this particular brick wall. [sm=yummy.gif]

Oh stop it. You know you'll be back.
[;)]



uncabeeil -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 10:30:07 AM)

quote:

"I don't agree with Stellaluna..." -- miasma
What she said! [sm=frog.gif] Until the next "Secular Music is Evil" thread, anyway. [:D]



stellaluna -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 10:45:57 AM)

[sm=purplelaugh.gif]



jmpjbc -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 10:57:24 AM)

Hey everyone,
I grew up on rock music because I played the drums when I was growing up. About 15 years ago I was miserable and my life sucked. One day I happened on a christian music station called KLOVE while living in San Antonio Texas. The music touched my heart and has changed my life forever. My relationship with God is never been better. I've tried to listen to secular, but it all sounds like noise to me now. If it's not glorifying God then I don't listen to it, plain and simple as that. Besides the music is just as good as any 70' or 80's rock and roll group ever was and at the same time I'm worshiping God.

God Bless,

Mark



freakofnature -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 11:06:39 AM)

quote:

Besides the music is just as good as any 70' or 80's rock and roll group ever was and at the same time I'm worshiping God.


Hey Mark;

Some would argue that this is actually the problem not the solution...(lol)

TAKE NOTE OF THIS COMMENT:
quote:

mayfly said:
I would love to listen to only Christian music, but unfortunately I just don't think there are enough good Christian artists in the genres that I enjoy. I mean honestly, where's the Christian equivalent to, say, the Beatles? I would gladly burn my UK first edition White Album if I found a Christian group that were as good as them.


If it is worth it for you to listen to music as labled Christian only, then I will support you 100% You will get no backlash from me, I listen to mainly Christ Centered Entertainment but I have a collection of about 30 CD's that are secular and my wife has a vast array of Hispanic Music (I am forced to listen to on an occassion)



gaylel1 -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 12:05:16 PM)

Here is a known fact--

Did you know that R&B, blues, and other types of music came from the church? No kidding. Many of the musical styles that you listen to came from the church, especially from the black church. Now back in the day, the church says that things like Motown, and the Beatles are sinful and people were condemned to hell because of their music choices. Nowadays, many of the musical influences are back in the church and secular artists are recording gospel albums and/or being influenced by christian music.

And yes, your pastors are listening to secular music too btw. One pastor admit he listens to B.B. King and Bobby "Blue" Bland while another one listens to The Beatles. Believe it or not, some of the secular music has meaning to it. I was thinking about a song by Curtis Mayfield a few days ago (btw, Mayfield was the lead singer of the Impressions, a well-known R&B group which had its gospel roots instilled, yet had million seller hits like "People Get Ready") called, "If There is A Hell Below, We Are All Going To Go", which says voulmes giving the state of the world today.


What I'm am saying is that not every secular musician or music is bad, and as Christians, yes, we have to be careful of the lyrics, but don't judge every secular music style or songwriter as "bad" because these people if it was not for them, they would not inspire those to have ideas, Christian or secular.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 12:22:01 PM)

quote:

And yes, your pastors are listening to secular music too btw.


I remember when I was a teen I was over at a youth pastor's house with a friend (visiting a church, he and I went to a camp with many of the youth members) and saw The Eagles: Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 and was shocked. Shocked I tell you. Kinda happy too as I listened to secular music (and still do).

BTW: For those who don't know there was a rumor that The Eagles were satanic due to the song "Hotel California", supposedly about the Satanic church. I think I remember Anton Lavey's picture was on the inside cover of the album with the same name (I don't think my British import replica "mini album cover" of the CD has that picture though, maybe I'm mistaken), there was some lyrics that were being interpreted as Satanic in that song, Hotel California was supposedly the name of a Satanic church and other fun stuff.



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 12:28:57 PM)

I remember those rumors. [8D]



uncabeeil -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/27/2008 3:30:22 PM)

quote:

rumor
This is the operative word. Don Henley laughed when he was asked about it in an interview a couple of years ago.



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