RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why?
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/17/2008 3:38:40 PM
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Giggles56
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I know that not all people are not going to be violent just because they listen to that type of music. I said before that songs can bring up different emotions. If you have a a lot of anger in your life and haven't dealt with or resolved those feelings, listening to angry music MAY only enhance those feelings. You may find listening to music that is encouraging as a way to bring out more positive emotions until you have dealt with whats really making you angry. Music isn't the cause or blame for our actions. It's whats going on in your life and the choices you make. Ask God to help you find another outlet and deal with the anger in a more constructive way. As I said before it's a choice.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 9:28:38 AM
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kencool99
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when i think of music in general, everyone has their different story. you might not like their story, but that does that doesn`t mean that they are not telling the truth. what we must understand, is that no one is the same. I didn`t grow up with the white picket fence or whatever ya call it. so my music will be different , you might like it or ya might not. do i listen to secular music, yes i do, do i listen to christian music, yes i do.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 9:36:28 AM
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edlove50
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I love reading the different threads, particularly this one as listening to secular music or not was a real problem for me at one time in my life as a Christian. But I resolved the situation this way. Mostly I listen to Christian music, particularly prasie and worship but I like to listen to CCM a lot also. I feeds my spirit and draws me closer to Christ. But I see nothing wrong with listening to secular music. There are certain groups/singers who I refuse to listen to as a Christian that I listened to before I got saved. I used to be hard core do-not-listen-to-secular period but I have changed. Most of the music I still listen to is from when I was in high school and into the late 70's and these are good solid rock and roll music with no particuar message to them. If you want to listen to secular and are a christian struggling with that decision, do what I do. Look at their website and see what they are involved in. Read the lyrics to their music and read about their concerts and what happens there. A lot of these guys are harmless. But never let go of CCM or praise and worship.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 9:36:44 AM
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kencool99
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The fact that rick mullins didn`t sell out and play the game, makes him more cooler and rebellious just like our LORD. RIP Rick Mullins , we`ll keep the light on.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 9:55:16 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Well, Ken, if you have a chance, it would be great to hear about your music.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 12:09:31 PM
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beachcooky
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quote:
But I don't think secular music is bad unless it's talking about how sex is so good
Um, sex IS good. God created it, and obviously created it to be enjoyed. Perhaps you should qualify that statement...
I think you know what that statement meant.
But if you don't, it's saying how sex OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE is ok.
And that's bad. But after marriage it's fine.
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www.myspace.com/xsweetheartforux
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 2:44:42 PM
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edlove50
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Quote: In some ways, swearing is needed. Do I agree with it? No. But in certain circumstances it's needed
________________________________________________________
Hello beachcooky,
I wanted to let you know for a young christian you seem to be headed in the right direction. But I wanted to point out a observation based on my experiences. Swearing is not okay no matter if it is needed or not. I don's see in the Bible where it says when needed, only then can we curse. You will find references to God who would rather you be hot or cold, not lukewarm or He will spew you out of His mouth, There is no gray area in God's rule book. He also says to let no corrupt thing proceed out of your mouth and I think there is scripture covering the types of foul language. I remember reading it but can't tell you where it is. I have been a christian since 1975 and find it hard to control using curse words. It only happens when someone gets me mad enough and then I can let them fly. We are all human but what you can do as I have done is admit you are wrong and ask for forgiveness. God looks at the heart. He knows we all slip up and He looks for how you handle the situation, even when you let them fly. Do you then ask for forgiveness and for help to control your mouth? It's hard to NOT use those words because of people who around you. Keep going strong!!
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 5:13:15 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Swearing is not okay no matter if it is needed or not. I don's see in the Bible where it says when needed, only then can we curse. You will find references to God who would rather you be hot or cold, not lukewarm or He will spew you out of His mouth, There is no gray area in God's rule book. He also says to let no corrupt thing proceed out of your mouth and I think there is scripture covering the types of foul language.
Actually she was responding to my post and being agreeable more or less. Because she is a nice young lady. Although I realize you didn't attack her I just think its fair that your post respond to me.
First what defines a cuss word? What is the difference between using a certain word that means having sex or using the term having sex? Is it when the word is used in anger? Then what is the difference between using the word or using a "clean" version like "oh fiddlesticks". I'm sure Jesus was angry when he saw the moneychangers. I don't know if he cursed but I know he was angry and used what might be considered "unwholesome" or perhaps "angry" language but did so in righteous anger.
Here's what you're missing though, I never stated that we should use profanity in our daily lives. While I don't limit myself to social norms (many of which are birthed in ignorance, conformity or assumption) I understand that many people consider some words worse than others due to the tyranny of tradition. So I don't use the offensive words in order to present a good Christian image. The only words I refuse to use on principle is racial slurs and the Lord's Name in vein. Because the base meanings of those words are offensive to people and intended to be so (taking the Lord's Name in vein is an insult to God). Other words are just "dirty" words for perfectly acceptable terms.
My statement is that in movies, TV and other forms of art it may be necessary to use offensive words (even the ones I won't use). There are some stories worth telling as realistically as possible. If I'm going to tell the story of a veteran of a war like Iraq or Vietnam and try to sell it as based on real life events it is deceitful, insulting and offensive to clean up any part of that. So if we clean up the language what's next? Lessening the violence? Soon the experience portrayed in the movie has little to do with the horror of their real experience.
I think that is one example of a story that is worth being told and any "cleaning up" of that story is a disservice. If we disagree on that then so be it because I'll never change my mind on this one. One of the strengths of our modern media that was missing in the past is realism as opposed to making a story more palatable to "family audiences" by eliminating all disturbing content. I think we need to be aware of just how dirty, nasty, disturbing and horrifying this world is without the societal blinders of living in the clouds. You can't sanitize certain stories without losing the realism and therefore the impact.
Don't get me wrong not everybody needs to see high level intensity realistic entertainment. But it should be out there and Christians should understand its value, even if they themselves choose not to watch it. I don't cuss, wouldn't feel bad if I did and watching or listening to cussing in my media does not affect me. But others are different and I respect their convictions. As far as the verse on unwholesome talk I think its referring to gossip and an overall courseness of discussion unbecoming of a Christian, not the use of certain buzzwords no matter the context.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/18/2008 9:14:19 PM
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lrdl3537
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Ok, my question to all this is , is there anything scripturally that will stop people from listening to secular music. I guess if you talke the bible as a whole and are listening to music with things in it that make you have impure thoughts. Then that is what I would consider music that wouldn't be considered appropriate. Most secular music has something in it that relates to the world and might make you think in a more worldly way.
Yes, maybe some christian artists may have had affairs or even worse. But the thing is we can't judge all for what a few do.
The idea is to continue to Praise and Worship God at all times and music that doesn't isn't a good idea to listen to. I listen to christen music now where as I use to listen to country. I can still find country music that is christian and when I do I lisen to it.
I guess it all falls into the catagorie of your body is a temple of God and what you eat , drink, think, listen to or feel can make it better spiritually or worse.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/19/2008 4:27:35 PM
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edlove50
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I was not attacking beachcooky because I realize she is a new christian and, just like everyone else, is trying to find answers. There is no considering which words are worse than others. In Gods word He says in Eph 4:29 "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." It matters what God thinks about what comes out of your mouth not what we consider bad or good language. There is no gray area in God's realm. Rev 3:16 says "So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth. " As far as Jesus getting angry, He did get angry but He did not use curse words. It is impossible for Him to do so for He is perfect. Any Christian should automatically know that. Here is one more scripture for the record - James 3:10 "Out of the same mouth comes blessing and cursing. My brothers, it is not right for these things to be so." So choose you this day whom you will serve which is in Jeremiah. I have to constantly remind myself of this.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/19/2008 5:20:06 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lrdl3537
I guess it all falls into the catagorie of your body is a temple of God and what you eat , drink, think, listen to or feel can make it better spiritually or worse.
Then don't leave your door for you will be subjected to all sorts of temptation.
Here's a Sciptural quote for you:
"That which enters into the mouth doesn't defile the man; but that which proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." Matthew 15:11
Use of discernment and willpower is a must for a Christian! Or am I mistaken and we live in a perfect world where Christianity is evident from sea to shining sea? 
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/19/2008 5:42:45 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
I was not attacking beachcooky
I know you weren't but I was pointing out she was on your side in this, more or less. She was simply trying to find middle ground in order to be polite. Why would you address your points to someone who agrees with you?
quote:
There is no considering which words are worse than others.
Then how do I know which words I'm suppose to use and which ones I am not? Does the Bible have a list or should I just ask you?
quote:
There is no considering which words are worse than others. In Gods word He says in Eph 4:29 "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."
Define corrupt communication. I don't see where it is "cuss" words in particular. Actually there is a difference between cursing and cussing. Cursing means to spew verbal hate toward someone or something. I agree that is prohibited. When we talk about cussing it is usually certain words society deems offensive.
Aside from tradition society has no reason to deem these words offensive. What they refer to is not offensive. Human or animal waste is not offensive, having sex is not offensive, the male and female reproductive organs are not offensive, female dogs are not offensive, illegitimate children are definitely not offensive whatsoever (although the careless actions of their parents might be), the place where we spend eternity if we die without Jesus in not offensive. But there are words which refer to these things that are considered offensive for some reason.
I will admit that these words are used to curse and insult or demean others and that is prohibited. But using the words in order to tell a realistic story (as in this is what these people were like and the language they used) shouldn't be a problem.
Which brings me to this: you haven't addressed my point. I never said it was OK for people to cuss. I am saying that there are real stories about real people that should be told as realistically as possible. This thread is about music and by extention entertainment. To change these stories in any way, including the language used, lessens the impact. So you're saying that someone's war experience isn't worth telling in a realistic manner? That we should be so sheltered as Christians that we don't need to hear about the unpleasant stuff in the world in a way that truly shows how bad it is. You can't have realism in some aspects and sanitizing the truth in other aspects.
quote:
It matters what God thinks about what comes out of your mouth not what we consider bad or good language. There is no gray area in God's realm.
Did God give you a list? The seven words Christians can't say? What if I don't speak English and say the f-word? Am I cursing? I said a prohibited word even though I didn't understand it or, get this, it may mean something else in my language. This being the case, society defines words because society creates language. God does not command that certain words (other than taking the Lord's Name in vain) are off limits. Rather any word used to demean another person or to express a non Christ like attitude is off limits for that purpose alone. The word may be perfectly OK for other uses.
quote:
As far as Jesus getting angry, He did get angry but He did not use curse words. It is impossible for Him to do so for He is perfect. Any Christian should automatically know that.
Really? Did you ever think that since our society determines which words are bad (unless you are going to try to prove that any reference to excrement is wrong) and that the Pharisees were the determiners of the social mores of that subset of society that Jesus may very well have been using words that aren't bad but that the Pharisees would have considered bad? So by the norms of his society he was cursing but He really wasn't. He was expressing righteous anger.
Jesus also hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes. Can you really see him gently chastising them for every word their society (which he considered corrupt in its religious aspects) disdains? But when they talked in anger about someone or something I can definitely see him using that as a teachable moment.
Words have the power that those who use them assign them. Caveat: If I'm so cavalier or inconsiderate as to use a word that I don't have a problem with in the presence of someone who does then I'm wrong because I need to act in love and consider how my words affect others.
quote:
"Out of the same mouth comes blessing and cursing. My brothers, it is not right for these things to be so.
The context is so obvious that the verse is saying we should say nice things to people (blessing) and not mean things (cursing).
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 8/19/2008 11:23:22 PM >
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/19/2008 11:00:36 PM
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I_Walk_Alone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giggles56
I know that not all people are not going to be violent just because they listen to that type of music. I said before that songs can bring up different emotions. If you have a a lot of anger in your life and haven't dealt with or resolved those feelings, listening to angry music MAY only enhance those feelings. You may find listening to music that is encouraging as a way to bring out more positive emotions until you have dealt with whats really making you angry. Music isn't the cause or blame for our actions. It's whats going on in your life and the choices you make. Ask God to help you find another outlet and deal with the anger in a more constructive way. As I said before it's a choice.
I hope you don't think that I meant anything negative towards you in that post. I was just using an example, a general example, of what you were initially saying about the choices we have.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/20/2008 10:46:42 AM
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babbred
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I don't distinguish genres of music like that.
I listen to GOOD music. Period.
Sounds good to me!  I like all kinds of music. Mainly, though, I like older stuff like classic rock or big band music. As long as it doesn't have explicit swearing, references to sex, ect. I regard it as a grey area where I'm free to make up my own mind.
Somebody mentioned adapting music. Right now I'm listening to the classical radio station. Many classical pieces were either written for religious reasons or have been adapted for it. For instance, they just played Beethoven's 9th ("Ode to Joy"). The orginal lyrics to that didn't have anything to do with Christianity, but I'm sure most people have sung the version with Christian lyrics in church at one time or another.
Also, somebody mentioned the famous quote "Why should the devil have the best music?" Drat, I can't remember his name, either. He was a 19th century evangelist. I remember reading how he actually took popular beer hall songs and put Christian lyrics to them, so that sinners could feel a connection to the gospel.
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There's nothing better than a good friend, unless it's a good friend with chocolate.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/20/2008 1:02:29 PM
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Giggles56
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I-Walk_Alone
It never crossed my mind. I was making a suggestion and not towards anyone in particular. Depending on the frame of mind you are in that moment can sometimes exacerbate those emotions. An ex. - If your angry maybe you shouldn't listen to that type of music. I don't see how it can benefit you. Choose something that maybe more uplifting and find a way to deal with those feelings in a constructive way not a destructive way.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/20/2008 1:03:43 PM
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edlove50
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I was trying to encourage beachcooky. Besides, my original post was intended for her. I am sorry my post upset you but it was truly mean't to encourage her and mean't for her and her alone. As far the issue of curse words, God's word is plain that we are not to let anything unclean proceed from our mouths. It sounds like you are trying to use reasoning when deciding what is considered a curse word and what is not. I don't want to live by other peoples opinions but to live by the Word of God and if we as Christians are to trust totally, without question or reason, what the Word of God says. We answer to God, not each other, for what we say and how we live. God's word should be final and He is a God of absolutes.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/20/2008 3:20:14 PM
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Rufas2000
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It didn't upset me. What we are having is a debate, not an argument. We are exchanging ideas, not insults.
quote:
It sounds like you are trying to use reasoning when deciding what is considered a curse word and what is not. I don't want to live by other peoples opinions but to live by the Word of God and if we as Christians are to trust totally, without question or reason, what the Word of God says.
You still have yet to show me where the Word of God says "these words are curse words and these are not". I have already provided a detailed Biblical standard concerning course language. I have supported it with Bible verses. Or more to the point, I have used the verses you pr ovided to support my standard.
You have yet to refute my points or even provide your own standard of what cursing is. You simply repeat the same talking points over and over. My standard is much tougher than simply refraining from the use of certain words. My standard involves the very basics of the Christian faith, love others as yourself, do unto others as they would do unto you.
Here's a simple test. Which of the following statements is more offensive to God?
"Can you please go outside and clean the dog (4 letter word for excrement, usually considered cussing)?
Can you believe the stuff she was saying. She's a freakin' dog!
From what little I can gather about your standard you would answer #1 because it has a cuss word. But its simply a request. The second one is much more mean spirited and hateful and therefore I believe offensive to God even though the use of cuss words was carefully avoided.
Its not the word but the way you use it. If we cannot agree on that or if you cannot provide a specific point as to why that statement is untrue then we really have no other place to go. It is my belief that Christians need to be aware of the world around them and use the critical thinking skills God has given all of us to determine how to best glorify Him.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/21/2008 11:29:55 AM
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MindySue69
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I listen to all sorts of music.
Good music, to me, is music that speaks to my heart in such a way as to get a reaction out of me.
Many will disagree, but one of my favorite songs is Tie A Yellow Ribbon by Tony Orlando. Why? It makes me cry. Every. Single. Time. I. Hear. It. It's a song about the guy's true love waiting for him to come back from jail. He did something wrong but, he served his sentence, his love forgave him and held out for him.
Oh, if only the CHURCH would react that way when people "go wrong." Instead of waiting for the sinners to come back with yellow ribbons celebrating their return, they are shamed, ridiculed, bad mouthed, and accused...
I went on the bandwagon with "spiritual folks" years ago and threw out ALL of my secular music.
Big mistake.
To limit myself to a single genre is foolish. Do I listen to "nasty" songs? No - I don't listen to music that contains vulgar language, I don't like songs that glorify violent/sinful behavior - but music doesn't have to be sacred to be good or worthy of listening to.
I love music from hymns/praise& worship/southern gospel/classical/ragtime/jazz/swing/big band/blue grass/old old country(50's-60s)/older country(70s-80s)/classic rock/rockabilly/southern rock/folk/celtic/african/reggae....
My point is - I do not make fun of or harass people who prefer a certain style of music. That is your preference to limit what you listen to - my parents never listened to anything but country music. Too bad they never broadened their horizons and took in the beauty that is MUSIC. Other friends even limit the kind of CHRISTIAN music they listen to - some refuse to listen to old stuff, some refuse to listen to contemporary stuff.
We all have our own preferences, and I know that some people believe it's a sin to listen to secular music. Chapter and verse please. (And no stretching verses to say something it doesn't.)
I really prefer to leave it up to the individual. I think the church spends way too much time meddling in stuff that produces chaff - and doesn't spend enough time helping with the harvest.
The only thing I can't cotton to is the song Up Up and Away. That song is pure evil. Oh yeah, and Slim Whitman.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/21/2008 12:32:02 PM
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mapachito13
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Jesus used words with "shock value" (See Post #191). If it's well placed and is meant to rattle some cages it does have its place.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/22/2008 10:10:33 AM
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babbred
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
I listen to all sorts of music.
Good music, to me, is music that speaks to my heart in such a way as to get a reaction out of me.
Same here.
quote:
Many will disagree, but one of my favorite songs is Tie A Yellow Ribbon by Tony Orlando. Why? It makes me cry. Every. Single. Time. I. Hear. It. It's a song about the guy's true love waiting for him to come back from jail. He did something wrong but, he served his sentence, his love forgave him and held out for him.
Oh, if only the CHURCH would react that way when people "go wrong." Instead of waiting for the sinners to come back with yellow ribbons celebrating their return, they are shamed, ridiculed, bad mouthed, and accused...
I'm a little young for Orlando's music  , but I agree with the sentiment.
quote:
I went on the bandwagon with "spiritual folks" years ago and threw out ALL of my secular music.
Big mistake.
To limit myself to a single genre is foolish. Do I listen to "nasty" songs? No - I don't listen to music that contains vulgar language, I don't like songs that glorify violent/sinful behavior - but music doesn't have to be sacred to be good or worthy of listening to.
Totally agree.
_____________________________
There's nothing better than a good friend, unless it's a good friend with chocolate.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/23/2008 9:21:01 PM
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wbporter
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
I listen to all sorts of music.
Many will disagree, but one of my favorite songs is Tie A Yellow Ribbon by Tony Orlando. Why? It makes me cry. Every. Single. Time. I. Hear. It. It's a song about the guy's true love waiting for him to come back from jail. He did something wrong but, he served his sentence, his love forgave him and held out for him.
I think I read a chaplin was on the train at the same time as that man. He told the chaplin what to look for since he didn't want to see the bad news. With no way to miss seeing the multitude of yellow ribbons, the chaplin told him, "You had better see this for yourself, you'll never believe me." And, of course, the story spread from there.
Music doesn't have to be done in church to have a Christian message. Who can miss the message of "Cat's in the Cradle" or the musical Le Miserables?
_____________________________
Pacem.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/23/2008 10:31:36 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
like Lemmy said about the Judas Priest concerning the suicide trial.
Out of the thousands of people who bought the album. If the music called suicide, their should be thousands of bodies in the streets.
I truly believe that those that are easily influenced by music are the ones who had serious underlying issues. The music is just a scapegoat.
I find it remarkable that anyone understood anything Lemmy says (judging from his singing).
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I know that I listen to bands that have extremely volent content in their music. But I just don't understand how anyone can say that the music made me do it. I listen to that stuff when I am angry and scream along. Then I am back to normal. A nice emotional cleansing.lol
Agreed
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Now that would be an interesting commentary to hear.
I agree with Dennis Miller more now but I don't find him as funny since he went conservative. Conservative comedians in general aren't as funny (look at Fox News' short lived "Half Hour News Hour" and the should have been short lived "Red Eye"). I'm not sure why that is. Maybe its because liberal comedians wil still make fun of other liberals (see Jon Stewart & Lewis Black) whereas conservative comedians are more hands off of fellow conservatives and don't laugh at their own beliefs as much. Of course its a small sample size as there are not many conservative comedians around (the redneck gang doesn't count as they only do a few political jokes).
How is he conservative now? I always heard him being more liberal and swearing a lot.
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ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Jesus used words with "shock value" (See Post #191). If it's well placed and is meant to rattle some cages it does have its place.
FYI, there are no words in the English language outside of swearing that express "angry emphasis so to speak. From what I understand, in other languages there are. BTW, there is a thread on swearing in Morality and Ethics also.
And now back to the regularly scheduled thread.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/23/2008 11:29:53 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
How is he conservative now? I always heard him being more liberal and swearing a lot.
Well he swears a lot but he is a hawk on terror, a supporter of John McCain and a fan of George W Bush. He doesn't have much use for Obama, Al Gore or many other liberal icons. In general he advocates conservative positions on most issues.
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/23/2008 11:37:44 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Interesting!
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RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and ... - 8/24/2008 12:40:58 AM
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Rufas2000
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Miller usually pontificates on The O Reilly Factor Wednesdays or Thursdays. If you're interested (and can stomach O Reilly) you can catch him then. 9/11 changed Miller considerably.
Note: he is more of a Libertarian on the moral issues like gay marriage. His conservatism is more apparent on security and economic issues.
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