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SonInMe1 -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 9:11:37 AM)

My question is...where are all the "prophets" proclaiming this is God's wrath? It seems with every natural disastor there is some preacher going on and on about how the region deserved what it got.

Must be that racism I hear about that inhabits america and its churches. Middle america gets hit with terrible floods and no one blames their sins for the weather because middle america...is white...????

Gotta be racism....eh?



Consecrated2God -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 2:06:58 PM)

I wouldn't say it's racism, because morality or immorality has nothing to do with skin color. The midwest has never been regarded as a hotbed of immoral behavior, so that's probably why no one has said that.



stampinlady -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 2:09:43 PM)

quote:

Keep in mind I've only seen picture of Katrina, and I've not seen everything around here, either, but in my opinion it wasn't on the same scale.


Exactly what I was thinking. Very different surroundings.



StephK -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 2:33:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Does the question need to be asked? Middle America doesn't see itself as victims.

That's the difference between the sane moderates up north and the crazy conservative folks from LA and MS.



I've read where many of the people did not have flood insurance because they were in a 500 year flood plain and were told they didn't need it. Hopefully FEMA won't give them the runaround like they did here. There were many similar stories in Louisiana and Mississippi by the way. Many people had insurance but you should hear how many creative ways the insurance companies have used to get out of paying out what people paid for. It would make you sick and angry. One thing to keep in mind is the MSM hyped up the inner city welfare class who have always been dependent on the government and not the couple million + people who did prepare, evacuate, take care of themselves and their families and then they went back home as soon as the winds died down and picked up the pieces. . The media didn't spend any time on the areas where the decent, hardworking and fiercely independent people went back to pick up the pieces of their communities, like mine, and doing what we've always done. There are many decent and hard working people in New Orleans who have been doing a phenomenal job rebuilding in spite of the problems. Do you think the MSM will report on them?



blessedinnyc -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 2:48:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

My question is...where are all the "prophets" proclaiming this is God's wrath? It seems with every natural disastor there is some preacher going on and on about how the region deserved what it got.

Must be that racism I hear about that inhabits america and its churches. Middle america gets hit with terrible floods and no one blames their sins for the weather because middle america...is white...????

Gotta be racism....eh?

One of my friends once asked what would happen if Pat Robertson got a minor jolt while he was walking outside in a thunderstorm.

I don't think natural disasters are aimed at certain specific people or groups. IMHO, it's part of the general curse that the world is under.



StephK -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 2:51:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

Well, I have heard some reports of looting, but they aren't very many.

I think it's just a very different situation. People are busy filling sandbags and bringing water to those who don't have any. The National Guard has been helping, and the Red Cross, and people are volunteering and working hard to help each other out. As hard as it is around here for many people, Katrina was a much larger disaster and because they weren't able to get help in time to save many of the people, a lot of the victims felt like no one cared about them.



I don't think a lot of people realize just how large of an area was utterly destroyed with Katrina. A lot of people don't realize that part of the problem was the lack of communication due to the fact that the communications infrastructure was demolished or heavily damaged from the Texas border eastward. It wasn't just the coastal areas and New Orleans that was heavily damaged. Many of the roads and bridges were heavily damaged or impassable due to debris and downed trees and there was no electricity from the coast to nearly 150 miles inland in Louisiana and I believe it was farther north in Mississippi. Just as things were getting up and running Katrina's evil twin sister hit two and a half weeks later on the other side of the state and actually did more damage further inland than Katrina did. The entire electrical grid was wiped out from east Texas to close to Baton Rouge and northwards to Shreveport. What took 60 years to build was rebuilt in about two months. I really do appreciate those linemen who left their families and went to work in some nasty circumstances to restore the electricity, phones, water treatment, and so on.

I will say this about my own observations up close and personal in the recovery afterwards, it's more of a rural/urban thing. Rural people know it's going to take time to get help so they tend to prepare more because of necessity. If you live in an urban area you know you usually can find whatever you need 24/7.



StephK -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 2:56:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

My question is...where are all the "prophets" proclaiming this is God's wrath? It seems with every natural disastor there is some preacher going on and on about how the region deserved what it got.

Must be that racism I hear about that inhabits america and its churches. Middle america gets hit with terrible floods and no one blames their sins for the weather because middle america...is white...????

Gotta be racism....eh?


The irony of the proclamations of judgment on New Orleans was that the most sinful areas of the city never shut down. [;)]



StephK -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 3:07:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

At the time, forecasters did not know where Katrina would hit so there was not time to fully evacuate


Wrong....the "cone of uncertainty" made it likely the Big Sleazy would take a direct hit. With a storm as large as Katrina and due to the fact the city is below sea-level, anyone with any degree of iinteligence would hit the road. And who it the road before the storm it; none other the Ray "Chocolate City" Nagin.


Actually about 80% of the metro area did evacuate. Part of the problem wasn't Nagin but BlanKo who failed to open up the shelters outside of New Orleans. Of course I later found out that no Red Cross shelter in the cone of possibility south of Interstate 10 could be legally opened if the storm was a Cat 3 or above. That took out some of the biggest shelters in Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Lake Charles, Houma, Morgan City and the many small towns in between that always open as soon as needed because the entire state was in the cone of possibility up until a day before it hit. The entire life of the storm from the beginning was 6 days from when it formed east of Florida.



SteveSund -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 3:41:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveSund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

Why is it that we're not seeing anything about the midwest flooding that resembles what we saw after Katrina hit New Orleans?



Huh? The local paper has front page coverage on this every day. I just sat down in front of Fox News for 10 minutes and the lead story was on the flooding. Do you watch TV much?


No, not much. But re-read my question. Note the word "resembles".


I see your point. I am not really sure why, but hurricanes tend to get more media coverage even if they aren't as bad as Katrina. Maybe there will be a big benefit concert for the midwest?



rcjames -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 4:58:18 PM)

I guess the real "Difference" here is that the citizens obeyed the authorities when they said evacuate.

And in New Orleans many (including all who were injured and died) did not.

Go figure.

Thanks
RC



ak2007 -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 6:28:15 PM)

This one didn't kill 1,800 people and wreck a 300-year-old city of a half-million.



Consecrated2God -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 9:27:04 PM)

quote:

I don't think a lot of people realize just how large of an area was utterly destroyed with Katrina. A lot of people don't realize that part of the problem was the lack of communication due to the fact that the communications infrastructure was demolished or heavily damaged from the Texas border eastward. It wasn't just the coastal areas and New Orleans that was heavily damaged. Many of the roads and bridges were heavily damaged or impassable due to debris and downed trees and there was no electricity from the coast to nearly 150 miles inland in Louisiana and I believe it was farther north in Mississippi.


Right. With the floods here, not everyone was affected. One house might be under water, the house across the street might not be. Many people went and stayed with a friend or relative locally who didn't have any flooding.

quote:

I will say this about my own observations up close and personal in the recovery afterwards, it's more of a rural/urban thing. Rural people know it's going to take time to get help so they tend to prepare more because of necessity. If you live in an urban area you know you usually can find whatever you need 24/7.


We were talking about our different experiences at church today, and it was interesting listening to the ways they coped with things around here. The neighboring town was without water for a week because the levee broke, but they collected rain water to wash their clothes, fixed up sump pumps to their wells they hadn't used in years, scooped flood waters out of their yards to flush their toilets, etc. I think some of them enjoyed the challenge of getting along without running water for a few days, but they were glad to get their water back again. [:)] They know how to take care of themselves in an emergency.



Peter_Gunn -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 9:28:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveSund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveSund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

Why is it that we're not seeing anything about the midwest flooding that resembles what we saw after Katrina hit New Orleans?



Huh? The local paper has front page coverage on this every day. I just sat down in front of Fox News for 10 minutes and the lead story was on the flooding. Do you watch TV much?


No, not much. But re-read my question. Note the word "resembles".


I see your point. I am not really sure why, but hurricanes tend to get more media coverage even if they aren't as bad as Katrina. Maybe there will be a big benefit concert for the midwest?


I wish but I'm not going to hold my breath.



Peter_Gunn -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 9:32:32 PM)

None of the excuses fly with me. It doesn't matter what the scale, scope or size, the poverty level, the age of the area affected...none of that has one thing to do with choosing to do the right thing. Or, rather, choosing to NOT do the wrong thing.

Character is not dependant on circumstances. If you doubt that, find an Eric Liddel or any other of a number of people that have done the right thing in the face of tough times.



Consecrated2God -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 9:37:14 PM)

I'm not sure what you mean. Who isn't choosing to do the right thing?

Were you affected by the flooding? Are you upset that we aren't getting as much attention as Katrina?



Peter_Gunn -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 10:19:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

I'm not sure what you mean. Who isn't choosing to do the right thing?

Were you affected by the flooding? Are you upset that we aren't getting as much attention as Katrina?


I still referring to the differences between the current situation and the situation in New Orleans when Katrina hit. And my parents live about 30 minutes west of Iowa City. Their town has been spared most of the flooding...just a street covered here and there, a few basements, but no major stuff so far. Other than no phone service and not being able to get out of their town, they're fine. And I do think there's sufficient attention being given.

What I don't see is people rushing to help. I'm sure it's there and it's too early to really do much...we'll hopefully hear more later.

There are still groups going to the New Orleans area, though. Our church is sending a team (again) next month...to my dismay...I'd rather seem them go to the midwest. But there are still a lot of people going down there, doing some great work. Many, many, many of the people that lived there before and during Katrina left and never went back...left the mess for others to clean up. You will not see that in the midwest.

I went down there, personally, twice...a week at a time. Once, the owner of the house we were working in, was living in his garage apartment. He came and went but never even offered us a glass of water, much less picked up a hammer. On another occasion, the owner and his wife, wouldn't leave the work scene. They both had health problems and shouldn't have even been there, but they were insistant on working alongside us...and so grateful!

The bad thing is, the former siutation is the norm...the latter is the exception.

I don't really think we'll see the outpouring of help to the midwest...at least, after the shortterm. And that's fine...that is because they will take care of themselves and rally around each other. It's also because they won't be screaming for handouts from the government and the rest of America. They have too much (of the good kind of) pride for that.

I just don't understand why there is such a dramatic difference in the people from the two regions.



humbleinspirit -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/15/2008 10:23:43 PM)

quote:

There are still groups going to the New Orleans area, though. Our church is sending a team (again) next month...to my dismay...I'd rather seem them go to the midwest. But there are still a lot of people going down there, doing some great work. Many, many, many of the people that lived there before and during Katrina left and never went back...left the mess for others to clean up. You will not see that in the midwest.


Thats because the media pounded about Hurricane Katrina for days (not to mention other hurricanes as well.) The news hasn't covered this one as much, or there hasn't been as much interest news wise as well. People only do things on what they know.



Consecrated2God -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 7:58:57 AM)

Well, Katrina was much worse, and I don't think there would be much for a lot of missions groups to do if they came here, really. We have had a lot of people come in to help, though. The National Guard was out sandbagging and so were a lot of volunteers when the waters downstream were threatening to flood additional towns, but most of the waters have receded now. There's a ton of money being raised to help flood victims, the Red Cross is helping them, and all we see on the news around here is how to donate money. People are helping out those they know, but in all the TV watching I've done I've not seen anyone make a call for volunteers. I've heard them say to stay away from the flooded areas, not come and help people out.



mapachito13 -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 8:34:13 AM)

What sort of fuss do you want?

It's been national news since it started. It's been a lead story in LA for awhile. (Of course Britney Spears has been behaving herself, otherwise it would have been trumped by that![;)]) There have been follow-up stories on how it will affect the price of food although CA is pretty self-sufficient in this regard.

So again, what type of "fuss" do you want?



Peter_Gunn -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 9:38:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

What sort of fuss do you want?

It's been national news since it started. It's been a lead story in LA for awhile. (Of course Britney Spears has been behaving herself, otherwise it would have been trumped by that![;)]) There have been follow-up stories on how it will affect the price of food although CA is pretty self-sufficient in this regard.

So again, what type of "fuss" do you want?


No fuss is needed. When Katrina hit New Orleans, it was on every TV station constantly...even before it hit. We lived in Atlanta at the time and I never knew why everything had to be pre-empted for this event taking place several states away. But that just may have been Atlanta.

That's been the case now but only on the Weather Channel and the cable news network channels. Much more appropriately handled, in my opinion.

My biggest beef is not with the media coverage as some like to make it. My big problem is the fact that we (as Americans) are still having to listen to people whine about how bad they had it with Katrina. I also have a huge problem with the looting that went on during that time...but you're not seeing it in the midwest. No one seems to want to try to understand why and what the difference is. No one seems interested in getting to the root cause of that problem. It seems sufficient to blame the government, the rich, the "haves", etc. It also seems perfectly acceptable to pass off the utter lawlessness that occured after Katrina to people being poor, being "have nots", desperation, frustration, government insufficiency, etc.

That's what no one is making a fuss about.



mapachito13 -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 10:14:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

My biggest beef is not with the media coverage as some like to make it. My big problem is the fact that we (as Americans) are still having to listen to people whine about how bad they had it with Katrina. I also have a huge problem with the looting that went on during that time...but you're not seeing it in the midwest. No one seems to want to try to understand why and what the difference is. No one seems interested in getting to the root cause of that problem. It seems sufficient to blame the government, the rich, the "haves", etc. It also seems perfectly acceptable to pass off the utter lawlessness that occured after Katrina to people being poor, being "have nots", desperation, frustration, government insufficiency, etc.

That's what no one is making a fuss about.


Maybe you're not seeing looting in the midwest because most people affected are rural. There's a lot of distance between homes and then it's hard to loot something that's underwater. (What good is a drowned TV anyway?) The looting in New Orleans mostly happened in the parts of the city which were not flooded. I may be wrong but I don't think any major city has been flooded or forced to evacuate.

News coverage is only happening on the fringe of the flooding right now and is only now in a couple places being shown where the waters are receding. The whole story is not in yet but I expect the looting will be minimum due to already mentioned factors.



StephK -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 10:21:09 AM)

Whether you like New Orleans or not it is a world class city with a lot of history and cultural impact. Unfortunately it took Katrina to do what many in this state have wanted to do to change things that needed to be changed. The biggest impact for good that Katrina has done was shutting down the Orleans Parish School system and the state taking it over and completely redoing how the public school system is run. Katrina was also necessary to get rid of the failed public housing projects that was perpetuating the problems. They are still fighting and protesting the razing of those projects by the way. The problems are being addressed locally but it's not being covered nationally.

What hasn't been shown in New Orleans is the majority of the honest and hard working people who went back and have been working steadily to rebuild their lives and their city. Those very same people are getting groups together to go to the flooded areas to help out and repay what others have done for them. As far as groups going down to work on the rebuilding it is primarily due to the fact that there were two major hurricanes that wiped out the entire coastal area from East Texas to the Florida panhandle which has affected millions of people. These recovery missions have been organized to take that long because of the sheer number of affected people. I live in Southwest Louisiana and own property in a community on the coast that was literally wiped off the face of the earth after Rita and there are youth groups who are still coming to help even nearly three years later. Most of the delays in the rebuilding has to do with the time it took for the Corp of Engineers and FEMA to decide what the height requirements would be and other bureaucratic red tape.

Some of those groups come for the opportunity to enjoy the perks of the city but most are in it to help people out. What happens though when those workers see how they are making a difference in someone else's life is that they are more perceptive to help out again elsewhere. They also have learned a lot of skills too.



upNORTder -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 10:21:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

What sort of fuss do you want?

It's been national news since it started. It's been a lead story in LA for awhile. (Of course Britney Spears has been behaving herself, otherwise it would have been trumped by that![;)]) There have been follow-up stories on how it will affect the price of food although CA is pretty self-sufficient in this regard.

So again, what type of "fuss" do you want?


No fuss is needed. When Katrina hit New Orleans, it was on every TV station constantly...even before it hit. We lived in Atlanta at the time and I never knew why everything had to be pre-empted for this event taking place several states away. But that just may have been Atlanta.

That's been the case now but only on the Weather Channel and the cable news network channels. Much more appropriately handled, in my opinion.

My biggest beef is not with the media coverage as some like to make it. My big problem is the fact that we (as Americans) are still having to listen to people whine about how bad they had it with Katrina. I also have a huge problem with the looting that went on during that time...but you're not seeing it in the midwest. No one seems to want to try to understand why and what the difference is. No one seems interested in getting to the root cause of that problem. It seems sufficient to blame the government, the rich, the "haves", etc. It also seems perfectly acceptable to pass off the utter lawlessness that occured after Katrina to people being poor, being "have nots", desperation, frustration, government insufficiency, etc.

That's what no one is making a fuss about.



Katrinia took out an entire state plus. The storms here in Wisconsin and the midwest only hit certain areas. Big difference. The topography is different too. Louisiana has alot of land at or below sea level, Wisconsin does not. The damage from Katrina was far worse than the thunderstorms we had, far worse.



garsyt -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 10:58:20 AM)

quote:

My biggest beef is not with the media coverage as some like to make it. My big problem is the fact that we (as Americans) are still having to listen to people whine about how bad they had it with Katrina.


Well I can understand why many are still complaining - but A LOT of that is because of the fact that the trailers FEMA sent for them to live in are actually causing sickness, insurance companies are taking FOREVER to settle claims, and even YEARS later folks are STILL living in trailers - simply because they have no choice. AND banks aren't much help either, You still have to pay a mortgage weither your home is inhabitable or not.

quote:

I also have a huge problem with the looting that went on during that time...but you're not seeing it in the midwest. No one seems to want to try to understand why and what the difference is. No one seems interested in getting to the root cause of that problem.

I don't know why looting happened in New Orleans and not in Ceder Rapids except to say that MAYBE it does have something to do with economics and the fact that in New Orleans people were desprete, ALL they had was gone. Some were born and raised and lived in the very same neighborhood all of their lives and NEVER traveled anywhere outside of their little worlds and when all collapsed around them - didn't know what else to do. In Ceder Rapids, and Indiana, Wisconsin and Missouri, folks KNOW they can and often know a way they can survive past the boundries of a neighborhood. AND when they were told to get out they did. Another difference was timing. In middle America many folks had time to get out. In New Orleans - once the levee failed - well there just was NO way out anymore and the window of opportunity closed for many to be able to flee on their own. Then you get the few that are stubborn regardless of where they live and beleive they can hunker down and wait it out and Katriana proved that that was not the wisest thing to do.

quote:

It seems sufficient to blame the government, the rich, the "haves", etc. It also seems perfectly acceptable to pass off the utter lawlessness that occured after Katrina to people being poor, being "have nots", desperation, frustration, government insufficiency, etc.


There enough that went wrong to blame a number of folks. There's enough blame to go around. I think what needs to happen is that we stop trying to place blame - move on already. Help where we can with what we can. There was utterlawlessness in New Orleans and I do believe much of it was due to frustration and desperation. Your not seeing this in middle America because of the fact that it's not entire town that went under - sure it's bad, BUT you can go 30 miles down the road and find a WalMart or a grocery store that isn't underwater and still has supplies and can get more in. This is a rural area that has seen this before, in 1993, and in the 80's as well. People KNEW the levees could fail and actually made prepartions to leave so they could get out on a moments notice. I don't know for sure, but when the levee went in New Orleans after Katrina, I don't think many folks actually expected it to fail and were caught by surprise.

That said. I met a man last month when my dd's class at school took a field trip to the Indiana State house (which is a magnificant building for those who have never been inside[;)]). He and a friend of his both lost their wives to cancer several years back and in tribute to them have become FULL TIME Rv'ers. They travel the country, living on railroad pensions and whatever odd jobs they pick up and the kindness of strangers. In their travels they purposely make trips to hard hit areas and do WHATEVER they can to help out. When I met them they had just finished up a 4 month stay in New Orleans where they helped build 5 homes, a church, and a battered women and children's shelter! So I told them that if they were ever up my way to contact me and I would have them out for a decent homecooked meal. They then put me on their e-mail list. Just the other day I received an e-mail from them. Their RV was parked in Hanibill, MO across the river from Quincy, IL, and they had been part of a volunteer group that was in Ceder Rapids helping with sandbagging and keeping the one working well living. So there are people out there helping. People that just don't want to be noticed and praised for their giving! In fact the one guy does this "just so his wife's ghost doesn't come back to haunt him!" [;)]

Blessings,

Garsy



kernsfamily -> RE: No fuss about flooding? (6/16/2008 11:28:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garsyt

Another reason there isn't more fuss is because instead of WAITING for the federal government to step in and provide all the help, neighbors are helping neighbors, communities that are in safer areas are helping the people of the areas that are in the most trouble.

Blessings,

Garsy


the people who are going in to HELP the people (Red Cross, National Guard, etc..etc..), are NOT getting SHOT AT!

in new orleans, the National Guard and other relief had to "retreat" because of that.....as they certainly didn't anticipate that happening.....which only delayed assistance

quote:

They had live feed from a local NO news channel where they were talking about the storm being a monster hurricane and everyone had better get out now. I remember it so clearly because when they started playing the desperate people I asked my MIL why on earth those people did not heed the warning to get out.


My inlaws, who lived in New Orleans for YEARS (in Plaquimines parish, south of new orleans), ROUTINELY ignored "Mandatory Evacuations"....because,well, it was a lot of hassle...

ignoring the "mandatory evacuations" are a 'way of life' there...

PLUS, don't forget....The mayor of New Orleans had an entire fleet of hundreds of school buses...and some trains at his disposal to help get people out.....and, he said, "NOPE" to that assistance....

The "aversion" to accepting outside assistance, and the hesitation for doing so, is also a difference.



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