Pompous Religiosity (Full Version)

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Walker311 -> Pompous Religiosity (6/17/2008 11:45:14 PM)

Pompous - 1. Characterized by excessive self-esteem or exaggerated dignity; pretentious: 2. Full of high-sounding phrases; bombastic:

Religiosity - 1. The quality of being religious. 2. Excessive or affected piety.

I have a real problem with it.

I love the fact that there are those who have the theological and doctrinal right to be full of themselves yet are humble and thoughtful toward those not quite as knowledgeable or spiritually minded.

I greatly admire a pastor or evangelist who can hold a crowd with every word, expression, or quip yet remembers my name and is willing to shoot the breeze for a few moments.

Prideful, haughty, and egotistical Christian folk... is there such a thing?



Liveloved -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 4:15:43 AM)

quote:

Prideful, haughty, and egotistical Christian folk... is there such a thing?


Another good question, Walker!

It is not Jesus Who humbled Himself to the point of death on the cross. It is not Jesus Who laid aside His garments, took the towel and washed the disciples feet. It is not Jesus Who laid down His life for His friends. It is not Jesus Who only did what He saw His Father doing.

Humility is the path that Jesus will take us down if we are surrendered to Him. Pride is the big deceiver (as in the arrogance of your heart has deceived you. . . the words of two of the prophets, Jeremiah and Obadiah). Can you be deceived and walk in the light with Him? For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God. John 3:20-21

If God isn't dealing with your pride, perhaps you should ask if you know Him? It's not a one time event. It's a daily turning from self loving ways to God loving ways.

I'd say you can start out proud, haughty and egotistical. But He won't let you remain there if you are His.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 8:12:22 AM)

Sometimes christians get a little carried away with their passions and step on toes when they don't really mean to...sometimes not.



mvic -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 12:19:40 PM)

Good question Walker.

Is there such a thing as prideful, haughty, egotistical Christians?

Plenty round here where I live! People who are Christian in name only.

Some may have Degrees from the most famous Universities in theology, philosophy and may be learned beyond belief. They may be able to quote the Bible at the drop of a hat ... but when it comes to the way they live ... need I go on?

Over the years we have managed to distil Christianity to a subject to be learnt and quoted in good quality conversations but not to be lived. After all, it is no different to literature, science or history.

Jesus must be crying at what we have done to Him.



ladyichigo -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 3:35:45 PM)

I hope I'm not coming across as one.[sm=shocked.gif]



Walker311 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 4:39:58 PM)

quote:

I'd say you can start out proud, haughty and egotistical. But He won't let you remain there if you are His.


If you want a relationship, you are right! God will wittle us down and if we truly love Him, we will let Him.

quote:

Sometimes christians get a little carried away with their passions and step on toes when they don't really mean to...sometimes not.


The problem with this logic as it relates to this topic is that the proud have been living so long in their own large shadow, they can't see our toes.

quote:

I hope I'm not coming across as one.


I'm still making THE list... [8D]



ladyichigo -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 4:52:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

quote:

I hope I'm not coming across as one.


I'm still making THE list... [8D]


[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]



Walker311 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 5:43:01 PM)

I don't think that God is pleased with pompous religiosty.

Furthermore, those who practice it most likely are wasting gas going to church. Church is merely their playground. I don't believe it is a good idea to worship your own mind in God's house or in forums or... anywhere!

It is really a shame to be intelligent and truly have understanding of scripture and spiritual matters but be lacking in spiritual wisdom and tact.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/18/2008 6:04:34 PM)

Pride in religion...possibly legalistic? I would say if legalism is the fault then Grace is the cure?

I'm a firm believer that if you believe as much as you can, God will filter out the bad stuff. Legalists, or pompous religiosity, if they differ, will eventually either fall away from false beliefs because they were never saved to begin with, or will eventually be corrected by God.

I guess one could live in conflict with the Holy Spirit, but insanity ain't pretty ( doublemindedness ) In any scenerio, the practioner of such beliefs are gonna have a tough go of it.

I doubt such a person can exhibit the fruits of the spirit. Probably church hoppers looking for the "right fit" or church worshippers when they do find that fit.

A truely unsettled person. Doctrine worshippers without a true relationship with God. Fulfilled by ceremonies and traditions more than the love of God.

Possibly the ones described by Christ as those who call on His name and He never knew Him.



Little_1 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/19/2008 2:18:57 PM)

When I first arrived in the town where we live, I was considering going to a certain church in town until my neighbour (who attends this particular church) told me in no uncertain terms that I would be happier going to a more 'dress code' relaxed church! I am not one for buying expensive outfits (I choose not to) but I do like to look nice and smart when I go to church. The concern of this particular Christian (and she is by no means unusual around here) was more about 'having the right image' than having souls (saved or unsaved) come into church under the sound of the Word of God before a fashion label. Prideful religiosity. [:'(]



deliveredarling -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 7:43:34 AM)

Can confidence be misconstrued as pompous religiosity?

I believe it can.

We see it on these forums. Where some people see things as an absolute right or wrong, others will see it and proclaim it because they believe it.

When it's about being right for right's sake, positions can and will change, thus being carried by the winds of doctrine.
When people proclaim because it is the belief that sustains them, their testimony and proclamation is consistent-this is not pompous- it is confidence.

So are we confusing the two?



mvic -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 8:16:34 AM)

Well said Deliveredarling,

I hope I don't come over as pompous on this Forum, nor confident I must say!

My continuous questioning is to learn from others and to see where they draw their strength from.

I feel at the end of the day one's realtionship with God is personal. Sure it is based on the Bible, on belief, and on what influences one obtains from churches, doctrines, pastors etc ... But the final relationship must be personal.

I don't for instance agree 100% with what my church says. (Oops ... pompous again). Because, as you say, positions change as doctrines change. It doesn't follow that if my church changes its opinion on something (and boy has it ever !!!) then I should change also.



PromiseLander -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 8:31:13 AM)

You mean like Elijah? How about Peter? Maybe Paul?
I think that these people were more concerned about the condition of men's souls than stepping on toes.

In this world of Oprah, Dr. Phil, The View, sex in advertising, sex on tv, legalized so-called gay marriage, legalized infanticide, ect... we NEED to be less worried about hurting feelings and more concerned over peoples souls.

Every day I am appauled at the amount of filth that is common practice in every day lives - habits that people have that are by definition abominations! We MUST preach the truth in love, but the truth nontheless.

After all, how can one come to Christ if he is not first offended? Is this not the first hurdle to overcome when coming to Christ: relizing that you are a sinner?



deliveredarling -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 8:40:30 AM)

ooh so agreed, Promiselander. This is part of the problem though. Confidence is construed as pomp! Confidence can intimidate. We are told by so many that we "can't be offensive", we have to cater to the feeble minded, walk on eggshells to "draw" others to Christ.

I have not seen any example of Christ walking on eggshells to bring people close to Him. Nor have I ever seen Him coaxing people by baiting them with promises of a wonderful life. Those winds of doctrine, ever shifting, must be such the disappointment.

I had an instructor of a bible study I am attending, tell me I speak with an authority I do not have. Now how could that be? For me, it's not about authority at all. I speak what I KNOW in my heart. Did my speaking come across as pomp? Don't know, don't care. When it comes right down to it, I will say what the Word of God says no matter who is around or who it may offend. Bottom line is that I will answer for my actions based on what I did or did not do, said or did not say. It is my prayer that He won't ever say to me that I denied Him.



Peter_Gunn -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 8:41:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

quote:

I hope I'm not coming across as one.


I'm still making THE list... [8D]


Sounds pompously religious to me.


***Kidding, kidding, kidding...I hope you know I'm kidding!!!***

Couldn't resist! [sm=funny.gif]



kernsfamily -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 9:13:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1

When I first arrived in the town where we live, I was considering going to a certain church in town until my neighbour (who attends this particular church) told me in no uncertain terms that I would be happier going to a more 'dress code' relaxed church! I am not one for buying expensive outfits (I choose not to) but I do like to look nice and smart when I go to church. The concern of this particular Christian (and she is by no means unusual around here) was more about 'having the right image' than having souls (saved or unsaved) come into church under the sound of the Word of God before a fashion label. Prideful religiosity. [:'(]


One of the ultimate "catch-22s" in church today.

6 years ago, when we were looking for a new church home, EVERYONE had an "opinion" and "perception" about one church in particular. Due to these "perceptions" (by people who haven't even gone to church there, mind you), we were determined to NOT even visit there...not even "try it out"....in the end, we did...and we are so grateful that we did. That's the very church we ended up at!

The "perception" at our church CAN be that you have to have the "right image"...and "dress" a certain way....because the vast majority of people at our church DO dress their "sunday best"....that "perception" is magnified by the fact that the church just happens to be located in an extremely wealthy neighborhood. So, it that does take the "sunday best" clothes thing to an entirely "different level"....and, even getting together with people for something as "casual" as a pool party or cookout, their idea of "casual dress" is a bit different than most.

The "sunday best" thing are just people's preferences...and is no way something that is "required" or even "suggested" by anyone on how we dress. Plenty of people dress very 'casually' as well.

So, what's the catch-22? You're bound to get criticized by people who say my wardrobe is "too expensive", when I am choosing to dress "Sunday Best"....and, get criticized by the "sunday best" people, for when I choose to dress too "casually".....and, i think there is a good "argument" for at least attempting to dress "sunday best".....(it irks me a little when I see a teenager of a millionaire coming to church dressed in wrinkled cargo shorts, a shirt that it looks like he pulled out of the dirty clothes hamper and flip-flops)

with regards to the comment: the "right image" and "come into church under the sound of the Word of God before a fashion label.......
Is that only the PERCEPTION? because at our church, it's just that: a PERCEPTION, but only before you really get to know the people. Then, you can look past the designer clothing and Prada bags.....and realize that they are simply Christians and hard-working people, just like you....and, they REALLY don't care what others dress like or wear....as they are choosing to wear what they prefer, just like Iam.....the only difference being they have a slightly larger "disposable income"....



Walker311 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 1:36:17 PM)

I believe that the OP was very clear that this topic was not about confidence or over confidence. I even offered definitions.

It is an act. It is entertainment. It is insincere. It is a show. And, it is obvious!



Liveloved -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 4:00:34 PM)

In response to Delivered:

I think the distinction is between pride and humility. Pride is full of self but usually self deceived and totally unaware. Humility is full of God. Humility speaks with authority. Pride speaks in an authoritarian manner. Having authority and being authoritarian are very different. Jesus led with a towel. Man leads with a scepter. Few really understand leadership and authority as Jesus modelled it. I've never been in a church that modelled it. I would say pompous religiosity wins hands down.[sm=icon_smile_cry.gif]



deliveredarling -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 4:38:57 PM)

quote:

I believe that the OP was very clear that this topic was not about confidence or over confidence. I even offered definitions.

It is an act. It is entertainment. It is insincere. It is a show. And, it is obvious!


My sincere apologies if you feel like I have headed in a different direction. I'll do better at keeping on track.[:)]



pstrdebi -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 5:58:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

Prideful, haughty, and egotistical Christian folk... is there such a thing?


Yes... unfortunately.[&o]

One of the things I love about mine and my husbands relationship is that we can lovingly hold each other accountable and/or receive it from the other without being hurt. We never want to be "so heavenly minded that we're no earthly good."

We met a woman down the road through praying for her husband. They go to different services (I think). He is new in Christ and very down to earth. She is very flambouant, flaunts their wealth, etc. As she took us on a tour of their home, she showed us a room where she has a shofar and a prayer shall, a kneeling bench and other pieces of equipment that she told us she uses during her times of prayer. Her manner of talk is very self-centered and very self-admiring. She has told us that God will not talk to us regarding her husbands healing, only her. She won't pray for his healing because she says he's led a terrible life and this is his lot.

She has all the outward appearances of a Pious and holy Christian... yet when she talks to us it is all religiosity. No action. No fruit.

It's really sad because her name reflects the gift that God has given us, and yet what she glorifies is what she herself can give.
[8|]



Walker311 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 6:13:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

quote:

I believe that the OP was very clear that this topic was not about confidence or over confidence. I even offered definitions.

It is an act. It is entertainment. It is insincere. It is a show. And, it is obvious!


My sincere apologies if you feel like I have headed in a different direction. I'll do better at keeping on track.[:)]


Ha! You are now off the list... [8D]



deliveredarling -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/20/2008 6:45:23 PM)

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]



lazareth -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/28/2008 10:11:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I greatly admire a pastor or evangelist who can hold a crowd with every word, expression, or quip yet remembers my name and is willing to shoot the breeze for a few moments.


This is an ongoing determination. I know exactly what it feels like on the other end, and never want anyone in my congregation to feel as if I have slighted them in any way.

We want our congregation to feel as if they can come to us at any time, with any problem. Not an assistant or a secretary, but us.
If I can't be there for the people, then I shouldn't be there at all.

DL



Walker311 -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/28/2008 10:36:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazareth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I greatly admire a pastor or evangelist who can hold a crowd with every word, expression, or quip yet remembers my name and is willing to shoot the breeze for a few moments.


This is an ongoing determination. I know exactly what it feels like on the other end, and never want anyone in my congregation to feel as if I have slighted them in any way.

We want our congregation to feel as if they can come to us at any time, with any problem. Not an assistant or a secretary, but us.
If I can't be there for the people, then I shouldn't be there at all.

DL


We belong to a mega church. My mom passed away a week ago and our pastor left a message on the phone and also came to the visitation. I was shocked!

I can't tell you how much that meant to me. I am no one special yet this man who has a doctorate of theology offered words of love and encouragement.

What an excellent ministry you have. Just your presence can do wonders.



lazareth -> RE: Pompous Religiosity (6/28/2008 11:26:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

We belong to a mega church. My mom passed away a week ago and our pastor left a message on the phone and also came to the visitation. I was shocked!

I can't tell you how much that meant to me. I am no one special yet this man who has a doctorate of theology offered words of love and encouragement.

What an excellent ministry you have. Just your presence can do wonders.


God bless your pastor for being there for you. I tire of those who present themselves as some sort of rock star; escorted off stage, can't stand in the back afterwards and shake hands, send elders and others to pray rather than themselves, etc.

We didn't sign up for this job to be entertainers. If Jesus Himself is no respecter of persons, then what gives pastors the right to think they are better than anyone else and that they are unapproachable by hteir own choice. I have seen some that have body guards, for heavens sake!

I'm terribly sorry for the loss of your mom. May God be with you as you go through the days to come.

DL



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