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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 3:34:53 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
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And I am supposed to believe those who have no trouble with the cold blooded murder of the unborn care about anyone else but themselves? Sure thing... I may stop laughing by lunch...
John
[/quote]
Why are you so hung up on that one issue? It's not just the unborn that are being slaughtered in this country. Don't misunderstand me, I am TOTALLY AGAINST abortion and all forms of misuse of the murdered baby. There is NO justification for the travesty of abortion. Why is it that we MUST be fully informed of the particulars of any other medical procedure we undergo, but nurses are FORBIDDEN to tell a mom choosing abortion that she may feel her live baby thrashing about in her womb for an hour or so before he/she dies.... or look at pictures of the hacked to pieces babies of other abortions, or the headless babies that often result from the suction method ? Gee I wonder.
Hmmm....So I guess I'm a bit hung up on abortion myself.. 
but its just the tip of the iceburg.
What about Terri Schivo? Starved and dehydrated to death despite the fact that when she was told this was going to happen, she cried uncontrollably and couldn't be comforted? Murder of the helpless, in another form that is so much more rampant in this country than we can even imagine.
And how about all those little kids that ARE born, and then their moms and dads have to watch them go hungry, and without medical care when they get sick? Isnt that just a slower means of destroying them? and is it really defensible at ALL in this humongously rich populace?
NOPE --NO HOW --NO WAY.
And WHO is to blame? The government for making it legal? To some degree, of COURSE they are.
But how about the doctors that agree to get rich off of dead babies? or the offing the helpless disabled? or the elderly? or the terminally ill?
Or maybe is it the medical profession that hides the facts about the reality of the abominable practices they participate in?
Just because something is deemed legal, we have a MORAL obligation that takes Holy precedence over the legality of the issue.
Doctors should REFUSE to participate in abortions and experimentation on the slaughtered children.
Nurses should TELL the moms what the baby will go through.
We ALL should STOP estimating a person's eternal "worth" in terms of his "productivity", "IQ", "financial worth" or whatever, and refuse to accept anything but the Word of God as our source of right and wrong.
Will the government do that? Nope.
Do the churches as we know them do that? Not in MY experience.
Most churches today are just social clubs where people go to get told that as long as they tithe and confess their sins each week, they can go right back out and commit them again.
Why is that? Because the work of God is no longer centered in the church as its defined in our culture. The church is US. All scattered around and all in remarkably varying circumstances.
I don't mean NONE of Gods work can be done within a church body that meets in a church building of their choice. I'm sure there are churches that ARE doing God's work as He commands them. But OUTSIDE the building are the fields ripe for harvest. And we are a mighty priesthood in God.
Bye now.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 3:45:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Why are you so hung up on that one issue? It's not just the unborn that are being slaughtered in this country. Don't misunderstand me, I am TOTALLY AGAINST abortion and all forms of misuse of the murdered baby. There is NO justification for the travesty of abortion. Why is it that we MUST be fully informed of the particulars of any other medical procedure we undergo, but nurses are FORBIDDEN to tell a mom choosing abortion that she may feel her live baby thrashing about in her womb for an hour or so before he/she dies.... or look at pictures of the hacked to pieces babies of other abortions, or the headless babies that often result from the suction method ? Gee I wonder.
Hmmm....So I guess I'm a bit hung up on abortion myself..
but its just the tip of the iceburg.
What about Terri Schivo? Starved and dehydrated to death despite the fact that when she was told this was going to happen, she cried uncontrollably and couldn't be comforted? Murder of the helpless, in another form that is so much more rampant in this country than we can even imagine.
3500 a day?
quote:
And how about all those little kids that ARE born, and then their moms and dads have to watch them go hungry, and without medical care when they get sick? Isnt that just a slower means of destroying them? and is it really defensible at ALL in this humongously rich populace?
NOPE --NO HOW --NO WAY.
And WHO is to blame? The government for making it legal? To some degree, of COURSE they are.
But how about the doctors that agree to get rich off of dead babies? or the offing the helpless disabled? or the elderly? or the terminally ill?
Or maybe is it the medical profession that hides the facts about the reality of the abominable practices they participate in?
Just because something is deemed legal, we have a MORAL obligation that takes Holy precedence over the legality of the issue.
Doctors should REFUSE to participate in abortions and experimentation on the slaughtered children.
Nurses should TELL the moms what the baby will go through.
We ALL should STOP estimating a person's eternal "worth" in terms of his "productivity", "IQ", "financial worth" or whatever, and refuse to accept anything but the Word of God as our source of right and wrong.
Will the government do that? Nope.
And you trust the same government to handle health care???
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 4:40:44 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
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Then who?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 4:47:22 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
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I found you 10 billion dollars in one state alone? What's wrong? Not enough? Not part of the plan? Surely before we burden those who work and pay their bills with more operssion from the government in the form of taxes we should apply the billions going out to deal with those who shouldn't be burden in the first place, right?
John
[/quote]
Sigh..............
Who is not your brother?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 4:52:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 4:54:43 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
if the church doesn't do it's job where are the poor supposed to go to get help paying for health care? You've never answered that question
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 4:55:08 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Who is not your brother?
I am sending my bills over... I know you will not flinch to pay them, right?
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 4:58:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
if the church doesn't do it's job where are the poor supposed to go to get help paying for health care? You've never answered that question
I am still waiting for someone to speak about the obligation of families...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 5:00:01 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
if the church doesn't do it's job where are the poor supposed to go to get help paying for health care? You've never answered that question
I am still waiting for someone to speak about the obligation of families...
John
plenty of families who are poor can't afford to pay for health care costs. who do they turn to if the church doesn't do it's job? Stop dodging the question and answer it.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 5:07:53 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
if the church doesn't do it's job where are the poor supposed to go to get help paying for health care? You've never answered that question
I am still waiting for someone to speak about the obligation of families...
John
plenty of families who are poor can't afford to pay for health care costs. who do they turn to if the church doesn't do it's job? Stop dodging the question and answer it.
Not the government... It's not their job to provide health care to the populace... It's wasn't meant to and it has shown it cannot...
And who is really dodging? I showed you where billions of dollars are and you ignored it...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 6:28:47 PM
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relady
Posts: 1279
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
Medical care in the Navy was a joke... My wife almost went blind because of their type of care, her dad was in the Navy.. Yeah, I know of a few people who had serious issues with Navy medical care, but I have to say the care I got, and the care my son got, was very good. I suspect it varies from base to base just like everywhere does. I did not raise my son in a military lifestyle, my hubby got out, but it wasn't because of the medical care. It was general lifestyle issues for me. My sister is married to Navy lifer and nowadays you can choose not to use military docs. In fact, that was changing as we were leaving - the Navy at least made it so dependents are no longer treated by Navy medical personnel. My sister had her last two kids at civilian hospitals I believe.
But yeah, I've heard horror stories. But I've heard horror stories from civilian hospitals & doctors as well. Bad ones are everywhere.
quote:
Where do the families come into play? Why isn 't the family obligated somewhere in the mix? Are you talking extended family? How would you bring them into the mix?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 7:44:50 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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Many believe that the family should pay and help the person...instead of the person getting disability or government help. My hs government/economics teacher was that way.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 9:08:54 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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WE want a civil gov't, use Romans 13 all the time to stop murderers of unborn, but in the same sentence we should not have them do what they should do and help the vulnerable of this country??
Taxes are to be paid. Taxes should be spent wisely. Helping the people of this country. Medical Insurance, etc.
The people are not gonna get help because some peoples Church is this forum!
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/24/2008 9:31:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
WE want a civil gov't, use Romans 13 all the time to stop murderers of unborn, but in the same sentence we should not have them do what they should do and help the vulnerable of this country??
Romans 13 says God ordained the civil govenrment as His minister of wrath for those who do evil....
quote:
Taxes are to be paid. Taxes should be spent wisely. Helping the people of this country. Medical Insurance, etc.
The government's was never intended to be the provider of all things... Actually those who set it up feared what is has become...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/25/2008 12:58:13 AM
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relady
Posts: 1279
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
Many believe that the family should pay and help the person...instead of the person getting disability or government help. My hs government/economics teacher was that way. that's fine IF you come from a family that does that sort of thing. My family would not do that. I guess if it was the norm they might, but it's not and my parents made it abundantly clear that once we left the nest we were on our own and to not come to them for money. Ever. Not that they have the means to help anyway, they don't have much and they are retired anyway. So I guess under that "plan" I wouldn't get much medical care, lol.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/25/2008 1:09:52 AM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2474
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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Well, that's what I think is wrong with it. Not all people's families aren't about to help them...and even then, many times there comes a point where they cut off their "help." My mom is disabled; if she didn't have diability and my dad, family wouldn't help out. I think they might do a little, but after a while stop... plus they're in bad shape financially as well. Many of them can't afford insurance or anything like that. Family just isn't dependable, but I guess when you're poor enough, you just have to try. I'm not really sure if I think family has an obligation though... I guess maybe morally, but I just don't see this happening on a large scale anytime soon.
I'd love to help out those in my family who can't make it, but I can barely make it myself.... but I have more than one chronic illness that saps all the money.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/25/2008 1:17:22 AM
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relady
Posts: 1279
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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I hear ya Solo. I thank God on a regular basis that I am healthy and that my hubby's job provides decent insurance. I do worry about retirement years though, because he won't get retiree benefits. We will be at the mercy of whatever system is available at the time. Now it would be Medicare. My hubby's mom has so many issues that we could never ever pay for her care - it would put us literally in the poorhouse. I just don't see how the extended family being responsible would work - it would put generation after generation into poverty for many families. Unless someone out ther has a plan to make it work???? I'd be open to hearing any real solutions beyond the government getting involved.
Of course there's always the option of just letting people die when they get too sick. ..... 
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/26/2008 2:50:54 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Geetings! The hospitals are already being subsidized by the state and federal Governmental processes directly to the owners, for profit, while the patients are not covered and then charged for the services rendered! Doctors and some hospitals do not want to take medicare and medicaid because the Governmental authorities, in the politics of policies, do not pay any of the bill off to keep the Hospitals going. They merely send $1 for up to $5000 worth of billing.
Anyone who has insurance coverage understands that the insurance, also, does not cover the whole billed amount. Therefore, there is already Socialized Medicine in America in a for profit format. However, why can the Government not pay for services renderred rather than overpay the owners, directly, via politics?
It is because they would like to make the appearance seem to be that Medicare and Medicaid do not work for our own benefit. Thereby increasing the chances of Governmental Subsidies for no services rendered! This is hardly what one would consider to be a competitive or captialistic approach, and yet the people remain unaware of why there emergeny rooms are closing in some areas in Los Angeles; even.
How beneficial is this scenario to any people? Overtax the poor at the pump? Then make all of the money by socialized means anyway while stating that the system of 'insurance' does not work and the people have no coverage, at times, anyway. Sounds like Big Business and Government can coexist contrary to how some are stating! The gas tax works the same way, the people pay at the pump for not loving the 'rich' which Solomon said would be not a good idea.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
This thread is for those folks wanting to discuss universal aka socialized healthcare. This is to let the folks wanting to discuss it have a thread of their own.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/26/2008 2:58:23 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
I hear ya Solo. I thank God on a regular basis that I am healthy and that my hubby's job provides decent insurance. I do worry about retirement years though, because he won't get retiree benefits. We will be at the mercy of whatever system is available at the time. Now it would be Medicare. My hubby's mom has so many issues that we could never ever pay for her care - it would put us literally in the poorhouse. I just don't see how the extended family being responsible would work - it would put generation after generation into poverty for many families. Unless someone out ther has a plan to make it work???? I'd be open to hearing any real solutions beyond the government getting involved.
Of course there's always the option of just letting people die when they get too sick. .....
That already happens, and it's sad to me. I wish I had enough money to help everyone though, but I can understand why some doctors try hard to do certain things without a lot of pay. I read of one doctor who made barely any money because he was trying to help Medicaid patients get decent treatment instead of being treated like they don't matter. He barely even had any staff other than himself.
ETA: I know I said this over in women's, but I wonder what happens when people really just cannot pay. I know some diseases require expensive meds (like Pompe's which is about $300,000 a month for the rest of one's life, JUST for the meds, and many times insurance flat-out refuses to cover it). I feel like some people are punished for being sick, and if you get to where you can't work BECAUSE of the illnesses, then what do you do? Do you just die/suffer because there is nothing you can do as an individual?
And unfortunately, there are some who have died because they didn't have the money when insurance refused (I've seen this happen with cancer that COULD have been treated but the therapy was not covered...so the person just wasted and died). Insurance has refused my treatments sometimes, but if they refuse these things (they refuse the serious ones for me, but the non-serious things they can let go), I imagine they can decide they won't cover ones chemo drugs, etc. Sad state of affairs, IIMO.
< Message edited by solo_soprano22 -- 7/26/2008 3:30:10 PM >
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/28/2008 10:00:25 AM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
Yo mama shoulda whupped you up side the head more often John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/28/2008 11:18:38 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Then who?
I rest my case in regards to where some people put their faith...
John
Yo mama shoulda whupped you up side the head more often John
My mother agrees with my view(s) regarding this topic....
Btw... What other forms of child abuse do you advocate?
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/28/2008 6:03:02 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
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I advocate no abuse, just gentle correction and guidance ... with a swat on the bottom occasionally when needed... fortunately nobody in my family needs any swatting.
why do you ask?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/28/2008 8:04:05 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
I advocate no abuse, just gentle correction and guidance ... with a swat on the bottom occasionally when needed..
You said:Yo mama shoulda whupped you up side the head more often
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/29/2008 7:57:47 AM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
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Figure of speech John.
Mamas usually teach their children manners at least.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 7/29/2008 11:30:08 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
Figure of speech John.
I am sure that's what you tell CPS....
John
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