quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: triode

Maybe I'm as dumb as you think, because you lost me: What's that got to do with my questions?

I posted what I did in regards to coveting...

For the record I don't think you are dumb...

John

quote:


And corporations subsidize government by paying huge ammounts in taxes. The ones that make a profit, that is. Anybody catch the taxes Exxon/Mobile paid from their record profits.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/2195.html
If corporations go down, who pays for your precious health care?

quote:


Links? Any facts from you yet, solo?

quote:

ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

quote:


And corporations subsidize government by paying huge ammounts in taxes. The ones that make a profit, that is. Anybody catch the taxes Exxon/Mobile paid from their record profits.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/2195.html
If corporations go down, who pays for your precious health care?

Just out of curiosity HOW MUCH were those "RECORD PROFITS"???
I bet they are REALLY hurting !! LOL
I say TAX THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF THE LIKES OF THEM !!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

quote:


Links? Any facts from you yet, solo?

Any facts from YOU yet turkey ?? [oops I mean BACK ROW]?

quote:

ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

quote:


Links? Any facts from you yet, solo?

Any facts from YOU yet turkey ?? [oops I mean BACK ROW]?

quote:

ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: triode

Maybe I'm as dumb as you think, because you lost me: What's that got to do with my questions?

I posted what I did in regards to coveting...

For the record I don't think you are dumb...

John

You looked closely at the eye of a needle lately John?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I stayed at the Holiday Inn Express, does that count?

John

quote:

ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

quote:


And corporations subsidize government by paying huge ammounts in taxes. The ones that make a profit, that is. Anybody catch the taxes Exxon/Mobile paid from their record profits.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/2195.html
If corporations go down, who pays for your precious health care?

Just out of curiosity HOW MUCH were those "RECORD PROFITS"???
I bet they are REALLY hurting !! LOL
I say TAX THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF THE LIKES OF THEM !!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: relady

quote:

Any two bit fool that reads and understands the Bible knows we should help the poor.

Yup. And without asking and determining whether or not they "deserve" it.

quote:

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

quote:

ORIGINAL: relady

quote:

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

I think on a very personal level you have to use some discernment at some point. I would more than likely buy you a meal and perhaps give you a few dollars but I would certainly try to find out more about your situation. But I really think the scenario you've set up probably does not happen very often. Although it is definitely used by those who don't want to help as a reason not to, on a fairly consistent basis.

quote:

I have noticed that with many people, having something given to them for free causes them to place a low value on whatever was given, which of course does not really help either party involved in the attempted assist.

quote:

Ok, then how about I quit my job, sell all of my earthly belongings for petty cash, blow the wad on drugs and alcohol and live on the street. Then I find my way to your doorstep and ask you to give money. Would you do it without question?

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sophie11

quote:

ORIGINAL: relady

quote:

Any two bit fool that reads and understands the Bible knows we should help the poor.

Yup. And without asking and determining whether or not they "deserve" it.

Ok, then how about I quit my job, sell all of my earthly belongings for petty cash, blow the wad on drugs and alcohol and live on the street. Then I find my way to your doorstep and ask you to give money. Would you do it without question?

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

quote:

Ok, then how about I quit my job, sell all of my earthly belongings for petty cash, blow the wad on drugs and alcohol and live on the street. Then I find my way to your doorstep and ask you to give money. Would you do it without question?

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

WEll maybe that has happened to people that I give money to. I usually do not know their persaonal stories, I have a testimony myself that sounds wayyyy worse than that.

The Bible says give, not pick who to give to based on merits, or whatever.

quote:



I used to use "discernment" when I gave to homeless people. But one experience in my young adult years taught me to stop judging and just give.

Outside our youth group meeting, a homeless person was lying on a bench. He was dirty, unshaven and it was winter so the night was cold and he only had a fabric camo jacket to keep off the cold. He was a young man mid to late 20’s so my street experience told me his homelessness was most likely due to drugs. My youth group kids were urging me to do something about him and under that positive peer pressure I had to set a good example.

I got him some food at the local burger place and then got him a room at a motel up the street. In the process of talking with him I found out that I knew him even though I didn’t recognize him at first. He looked quite different than four years earlier when we played pool in his dad’s garage. He had gotten into drugs and two years earlier his brother tried to get him out of it by talking to the pusher that kept selling him drugs to leave him alone. The pusher ended up murdering the brother something that caused this man to disappear, get deeper into drugs and wracked him with guilt.

We talked more about his brother and his family. He said that his mom and dad would never let him go home because of what happened to his brother. I spent a lot of time urging him to go home but told him to think about it and make a decision in the morning. The next day I got a phone call from his mother thanking me. Needless to say it was an emotional experience for the both of us and an even greater humbling experience for me. Years later I met him again with his new wife and kids.

The moral I learned was the truth of not judging a book by its cover and not to use a person’s “appearance” to judge their worthiness of my almsgiving. “No, when you have a reception, invite beggars and the crippled, the lame and the blind. You should be pleased that they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid in the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:13-14) “If you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what merit is there in it for you?” (Luke 6:34)

Is the repayment we expect is that the recipient does the right thing with the money given or will lead an “acceptable” lifestyle? My discernment was just my excuse to judge other people's worthiness to receive my money.

quote:

Is the repayment we expect is that the recipient does the right thing with the money given or will lead an “acceptable” lifestyle? My discernment was just my excuse to judge other people's worthiness to receive my money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

quote:

Is the repayment we expect is that the recipient does the right thing with the money given or will lead an “acceptable” lifestyle? My discernment was just my excuse to judge other people's worthiness to receive my money.

I don't think it's about any sort of repayment for ourselves. We do have to use a very personal discernment. I used to work with a homeless women's shelter. Some of them truly needed temporary assistance. Some actually lived there. They chose to live there because the churches used the shelter as a Sunday school project. I was there during Christmas this past year. This one particular church pick set up a system of anonymous donations from the womwn's wish list. Many of those women stayed during Christmas, after it was over, they left with their new stuff and went back to the streets.
Now here is the kicker, I held a 12 step study as one of my functions. 90% of the women who were in my care (40 in all), were drug addicts. They left with their goods, went back to the streets and sold their new stuff to pay for their drugs.
If we don't use discernment with street people, we can end up helping them in their addictions. Nobody wants that. These people are on the streets for a reason, their families have abandoned them for a reason. Yes, there stories are horrendous and make you want to cry. Most often they a self-inflicted stories based on their choices. My sympathy for them is not what it used to be. The whole experience was very eye-opening and disheartening.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sophie11

quote:

ORIGINAL: relady

quote:

Any two bit fool that reads and understands the Bible knows we should help the poor.

Yup. And without asking and determining whether or not they "deserve" it.

Ok, then how about I quit my job, sell all of my earthly belongings for petty cash, blow the wad on drugs and alcohol and live on the street. Then I find my way to your doorstep and ask you to give money. Would you do it without question?

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

I used to use "discernment" when I gave to homeless people. But one experience in my young adult years taught me to stop judging and just give.

Outside our youth group meeting, a homeless person was lying on a bench. He was dirty, unshaven and it was winter so the night was cold and he only had a fabric camo jacket to keep off the cold. He was a young man mid to late 20’s so my street experience told me his homelessness was most likely due to drugs. My youth group kids were urging me to do something about him and under that positive peer pressure I had to set a good example.

I got him some food at the local burger place and then got him a room at a motel up the street. In the process of talking with him I found out that I knew him even though I didn’t recognize him at first. He looked quite different than four years earlier when we played pool in his dad’s garage. He had gotten into drugs and two years earlier his brother tried to get him out of it by talking to the pusher that kept selling him drugs to leave him alone. The pusher ended up murdering the brother something that caused this man to disappear, get deeper into drugs and wracked him with guilt.

We talked more about his brother and his family. He said that his mom and dad would never let him go home because of what happened to his brother. I spent a lot of time urging him to go home but told him to think about it and make a decision in the morning. The next day I got a phone call from his mother thanking me. Needless to say it was an emotional experience for the both of us and an even greater humbling experience for me. Years later I met him again with his new wife and kids.

The moral I learned was the truth of not judging a book by its cover and not to use a person’s “appearance” to judge their worthiness of my almsgiving. “No, when you have a reception, invite beggars and the crippled, the lame and the blind. You should be pleased that they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid in the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:13-14) “If you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what merit is there in it for you?” (Luke 6:34)

Is the repayment we expect is that the recipient does the right thing with the money given or will lead an “acceptable” lifestyle? My discernment was just my excuse to judge other people's worthiness to receive my money.

quote:

This thread is about socialized medicine, where government takes money from you in the form of compulsory taxation (it's NOT a loan that we can gain merit for by not expecting repayment), and gives it to others in the form of bureacratic health care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: relady

quote:

I have noticed that with many people, having something given to them for free causes them to place a low value on whatever was given, which of course does not really help either party involved in the attempted assist.

Well no one is getting much given to them free gratis nowadays so that should make you pretty happy. It just seems to me that no matter how much social programs are cut, the conservatives just want to cut more because of course NO ONE really deserves to be given anything. I mean is there any level of cutting back to where you all might possibly stop harping and whining about all the poor people being given too much for free? Sheesh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

quote:

Ok, then how about I quit my job, sell all of my earthly belongings for petty cash, blow the wad on drugs and alcohol and live on the street. Then I find my way to your doorstep and ask you to give money. Would you do it without question?

And if I honestly answered you would you give money? Or would you loan me some clean clothes and lead me to the nearest McDonald's to put in an application?

WEll maybe that has happened to people that I give money to. I usually do not know their persaonal stories, I have a testimony myself that sounds wayyyy worse than that.

The Bible says give, not pick who to give to based on merits, or whatever.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

I used to use "discernment" when I gave to homeless people. But one experience in my young adult years taught me to stop judging and just give.

Outside our youth group meeting, a homeless person was lying on a bench. He was dirty, unshaven and it was winter so the night was cold and he only had a fabric camo jacket to keep off the cold. He was a young man mid to late 20’s so my street experience told me his homelessness was most likely due to drugs. My youth group kids were urging me to do something about him and under that positive peer pressure I had to set a good example.

I got him some food at the local burger place and then got him a room at a motel up the street. In the process of talking with him I found out that I knew him even though I didn’t recognize him at first. He looked quite different than four years earlier when we played pool in his dad’s garage. He had gotten into drugs and two years earlier his brother tried to get him out of it by talking to the pusher that kept selling him drugs to leave him alone. The pusher ended up murdering the brother something that caused this man to disappear, get deeper into drugs and wracked him with guilt.

We talked more about his brother and his family. He said that his mom and dad would never let him go home because of what happened to his brother. I spent a lot of time urging him to go home but told him to think about it and make a decision in the morning. The next day I got a phone call from his mother thanking me. Needless to say it was an emotional experience for the both of us and an even greater humbling experience for me. Years later I met him again with his new wife and kids.

The moral I learned was the truth of not judging a book by its cover and not to use a person’s “appearance” to judge their worthiness of my almsgiving. “No, when you have a reception, invite beggars and the crippled, the lame and the blind. You should be pleased that they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid in the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:13-14) “If you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what merit is there in it for you?” (Luke 6:34)

Is the repayment we expect is that the recipient does the right thing with the money given or will lead an “acceptable” lifestyle? My discernment was just my excuse to judge other people's worthiness to receive my money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist

That's a great story. Bless you for your faithfulness in ministering to him. I'd only say that it wasn't the money you gave him that helped turn him around. It was your personal time and your counsel, which you voluntarily and proactively gave.
This thread is about socialized medicine, where government takes money from you in the form of compulsory taxation (it's NOT a loan that we can gain merit for by not expecting repayment), and gives it to others in the form of bureacratic health care. It divorces you from personal, proactive and voluntary ministry. And the recipient receives no blessing from it, only increased dependency on government and no accountability for change.