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Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/19/2008 9:47:39 PM
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Marcus.
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by RACHEL ZOLL
Originally published 03:10 a.m., June 18, 2008, updated 03:08 a.m., June 18, 2008
Less than a month ahead of a global gathering of Anglican leaders, conservative bishops angry about the liberalism of churches in the United States, Canada and elsewhere are meeting for a strategy summit in Jordan and Israel.
Organizers of the Global Anglican Future Conference say they will not formally break with the 77 million-member Anglican family when the meeting ends June 29. Even so, the gathering is a clear challenge to Anglicans who want their fellowship to remain unchanged.
"This is a show of force, unity and global significance," said the Rev. Peter Moore, former dean of Trinity Episcopal School of Ministry, a conservative Pennsylvania seminary. "The Anglican Communion is in the process of breaking up. What will emerge from that, I don't know."
Story Continued
I should have included this here when I posted this one.
What have any Anglicans heard in regards to this meetings? Is schism really about to happen?
Personally I don't see how you can stay with the apostates in the Canadian or American denominations but what are your thoughts on this?
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 6/19/2008 11:04:47 PM >
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/19/2008 9:50:45 PM
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Marcus.
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Hardline archbishops declare Anglican split
By Tim Butcher in Jordan and Martin Beckford
Last Updated: 9:12AM BST 19/06/2008
Hardline Church leaders have formally declared the end of the worldwide Anglican Communion, saying they can no longer be associated with liberals who tolerate homosexual clergy.
The traditionalists dealt a serious blow to Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, by claiming that he can no longer hold the Church together. They warned that the Church was gripped by its most serious crisis since the Reformation. It could only be saved by the repentance of the Americans who triggered the row by ordaining a homosexual bishop, the Rt Rev Gene Robinson, five years ago.
Story Continues
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/19/2008 10:17:24 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
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< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 6/19/2008 10:52:27 PM >
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/19/2008 11:45:41 PM
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prophet
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They have been at schism phases for years on end! The root of all this evil started years ago. Poor olde Rowan has inherited the matured fruit of the apostasy.
When schsim was mentioned few yaers back, same questions were asked: will it happen? Years on, still same olde.....will it happen? Who cares anymore about a manmade communion glued with polity and manmade nonsense?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/20/2008 3:55:44 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Who cares anymore about a manmade communion glued with polity and manmade nonsense?
Take a look at the Book of Common Prayer; it is filled with and is based on Scripture. The same goes for liturgy - which translated means work of the people - it is based on Scripture.
This over 70 million people make up this communion. Take a look at where God is moving it is in Africa and SE Asia and the churches of these provinces are driving this move.
Anglican Mission in the Americas
My church
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 7:53:26 PM
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prophet
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CollieFan
The original communion was sound.
Its not anymore. It probably has as many aposattes as any other denominations and nothing was done about them..eg Spong.
All these inactio has spawn the apostasy they are in now.
AMIA is NOT Anglican communion of the 70 mil that you mentioned. It was formed by the faithful remant out of the Episcopal church of America. It is NOT recognised by the Anglican comm.
My ex bishop was very heavily involved with the formation.
However, still a manmade communion plus heavily by polity of a manmade governance....at best.
Shalom
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 7:56:47 PM
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Marcus.
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So what are you hearing inside the denomination?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 8:20:12 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
So what are you hearing inside the denomination?
The break-up is all but certain; but we as a church are moving a God-directs. This past week, we had over 200 children, many coming from unchurched backgrounds, attend our VBS program. Considering our church has about 300 members, this is great. The seeds of another church plant in the Triangle area are in their formative stage.
I am on the missions team at church and we are in the process of sending a group to our partner church in Rwanda. Our goal is to learn from them how they oversome the genocide and how they serve Christ.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 8:24:13 PM
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colliefan
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OUR AFFILIATION
The Church of the Apostles is a part of the Anglican Mission in America (AMiA), a mission of the worldwide Anglican Communion through the Provinces of Rwanda and South East Asia. We belong to a global community of 70 million Christians in 164 countries.
Since its inception in 2000, the Anglican Mission has grown from 11 churches to 108 congregations in 2007, with another 13 fellowships, 64 new works in progress and ten more underway in Canada.
Anglican Mission congregations are now located in 27 states in the US, and in Canada and Puerto Rico. These statistics demonstrate clearly that God is spreading out and enlarging the tent known as the Anglican Mission.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 8:49:16 PM
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prophet
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Collie,
Inspite of whats written, the Canterbury see does not recognise AMIA..... thats polity.... 
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 9:02:43 PM
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colliefan
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Canterbury does recognize conservative provinces such as Rwanda, SE Asia, Australia, etc. It is these that are the ones that are pulling away. What is formed from the split will be a Reformed Church that will have the same scriptural foundationations as the original.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 9:23:27 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Canterbury does recognize conservative provinces such as Rwanda, SE Asia, Australia, etc. It is these that are the ones that are pulling away. What is formed from the split will be a Reformed Church that will have the same scriptural foundationations as the original.
Yes, thats the hope but its been like that for years ago....its talk and talk. i remebered the issue of hmosexuality being accepted (not widely) by some bishops as far back as the early 80s.
But the apsotasy started long while back and the church government did nuthing. Thats why its taken different forms...not least the liberaliasm of morals and doctrines. i quote doctrines as Latter Rain teachings are being subtily brought in.....
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 9:30:56 PM
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Marcus.
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Is the new mission still sending missionaries to the apostate congregations? I read about that going on years ago. Just curious if any attempt at correcting this heresy is still going on.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/22/2008 9:39:21 PM
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colliefan
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Many churches in Africa have refused money from the ECUSA because they consider it be tainted. Alongside the AMIA is the Common Anglican Network a similar movement that differs only on the ordination of women as priests.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/26/2008 7:57:32 PM
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9drtr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Collie,
Inspite of whats written, the Canterbury see does not recognise AMIA..... thats polity....
Canterbury will refuse to recognize AMIA until AMIA is finally forced to refuse to recognize Canterbury.
The question now isn't whether the Anglican Church is sound, but can it be salvaged. My feeling as a lifelong Anglican is that the liberals are too firmly entrenched in too many leadership positions. The only way to salvage the worldwide body of Anglican churches is to break away and invite all who will follow. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think there's another choice at this point.
Likely the best we can hope for is that the conservatives of all stripes - evangelicals, charismatics, and Prayer Book Society members - will set up a stronghold within the church so influential that the Anglican Church breaks away from it. That's essentially what happened with John Wesley.
But for the record, my pastor - who is evangelical and conservative - does not yet see sufficient justification for schism. It's one of the things we don't agree on.
< Message edited by 9drtr -- 6/26/2008 8:05:50 PM >
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/26/2008 8:18:26 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 9drtr
Canterbury will refuse to recognize AMIA until AMIA is finally forced to refuse to recognize Canterbury.
The question now isn't whether the Anglican Church is sound, but can it be salvaged. My feeling as a lifelong Anglican is that the liberals are too firmly entrenched in too many leadership positions. The only way to salvage the worldwide body of Anglican churches is to break away and invite all who will follow. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think there's another choice at this point.
Likely the best we can hope for is that the conservatives of all stripes - evangelicals, charismatics, and Prayer Book Society members - will set up a stronghold within the church so influential that the Anglican Church breaks away from it. That's essentially what happened with John Wesley.
But for the record, my pastor - who is evangelical and conservative - does not yet see sufficient justification for schism. It's one of the things we don't agree on.
The Liberals have been at it for the last 25 yaers or more! The Anglican communion is an ill disciplined deno. Thats the reason why its at this juncture. There will be no hope of salvaging as Canterbury is questionable! The politicals prefer compromise than separation and Truth....leaven at its worst.
Alas, now the charismatics have also strong footholds in the communion as well! 
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/26/2008 9:22:35 PM
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9drtr
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Yes, be negative at all times. That really gets a lot done.
Parts of the Anglican Church are healthy. While its leadership is largely hopeless, many local clergy - both high- and low-church Anglicans although few in the middle - have sound theology and remain true to their calling and their faith. The denomination - as a faithful church - is not dead yet, although it does require radical surgery.
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When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/26/2008 10:10:43 PM
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Marcus.
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Does the leadership use some 'litmus' test to prevent traditional belief members or lower level clergy from rising to national office? Is there any chance to retake the leadership positions from heretical leaders?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/26/2008 10:33:55 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Does the leadership use some 'litmus' test to prevent traditional belief members or lower level clergy from rising to national office?
Individuals who hold tradtional views are not promoted to the level of bishop while ones that devalue the role of scriputre are appauled and promoted as making the "needed" changes to the church so that it fits today's culture.
quote:
Is there any chance to retake the leadership positions from heretical leaders?
Not really. The ECUSA is, for the most part, so apostate it is beyond recovery. Several conservative dioceses in the ECUSA have petitioned for goverance by tradtional provences in Africa. As long as there are bishops in the ECUSA that believe Islam and Christianity are diffeerent paths to the same God a schisim with Anglicanism is inevitable.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/27/2008 2:47:48 AM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Does the leadership use some 'litmus' test to prevent traditional belief members or lower level clergy from rising to national office? Is there any chance to retake the leadership positions from heretical leaders?
very good point! Most leadership behave like lords anyway towards the laity. Priest vs laity thing......traditional curse....
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/27/2008 4:22:28 PM
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9drtr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Does the leadership use some 'litmus' test to prevent traditional belief members or lower level clergy from rising to national office? Is there any chance to retake the leadership positions from heretical leaders?
In Canada, there is no actual litmus test, and conservatives are elevated to the episcopacy, but less often then liberals. There is a clear preference for liberals. What we have to remember is that bishops are elected, and therefore reflect the general congregation, at least to some degree. Part of the problem is that many Anglican conservatives have left and joined denominations that more clearly reflect their theology.
If there is any chance to retake offices from apostate and heretical leaders it's by the mass return of conservatives to the pews.
And for the record, homosexuality is only one of many, many issues that divide Anglican liberals and conservatives. Other issues range from the use of a lectionary that virtually excludes the Gospel of John, to the exclusivity of Jesus' claims, to the very existence of God. There are also lesser issues like the ordination of women. The issues are many the divide is wide and getting wider.
< Message edited by 9drtr -- 6/27/2008 4:29:44 PM >
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When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/27/2008 5:31:37 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
If there is any chance to retake offices from apostate and heretical leaders it's by the mass return of conservatives to the pews.
And for the record, homosexuality is only one of many, many issues that divide Anglican liberals and conservatives. Other issues range from the use of a lectionary that virtually excludes the Gospel of John, to the exclusivity of Jesus' claims, to the very existence of God. There are also lesser issues like the ordination of women. The issues are many the divide is wide and getting wider.
I have been in my church for only seven years. And since the focus of the church is on the Scripture, Spirit, and the Sacrements and not so much the divide, I have cursory understanding of the split.
I do know there are a number of "cradle to grave" Episcopalians in my church who gave up trying to reform the church from within and moved to my church. At last year's AMIA Winter conference I spoke with many who made the same, hard, move.
The problem is that the media paints these individuals hard, unloving individuals when that couldn't be further from the truth/
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/27/2008 5:58:10 PM
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9drtr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I do know there are a number of "cradle to grave" Episcopalians in my church who gave up trying to reform the church from within and moved to my church. At last year's AMIA Winter conference I spoke with many who made the same, hard, move.
The problem is that the media paints these individuals hard, unloving individuals when that couldn't be further from the truth/
That's essentially what I did. When I started attending church regularly in my early teens our priest preached the Gospel. After he left the message was slowly watered down and the congregation dwindled. I was there until the end, and the deconsecration of a church is a chilling experience. After that, I looked for an evangelical congregation within the Anglican church. It's a bit of a commute on a Sunday, but worth it.
quote:
The problem is that the media paints these individuals hard, unloving individuals when that couldn't be further from the truth
I'm scum. 
< Message edited by 9drtr -- 6/27/2008 6:05:29 PM >
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Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/27/2008 9:00:48 PM
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colliefan
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One of our partner ministries targets those trapped in sexual sin such as porn, homosexuality, etc. We must not just preach against sin, we must help overcome its wounds.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 6/28/2008 12:07:58 AM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 9drtr
In Canada, there is no actual litmus test, and conservatives are elevated to the episcopacy, but less often then liberals. There is a clear preference for liberals. What we have to remember is that bishops are elected, and therefore reflect the general congregation, at least to some degree. Part of the problem is that many Anglican conservatives have left and joined denominations that more clearly reflect their theology.
If there is any chance to retake offices from apostate and heretical leaders it's by the mass return of conservatives to the pews.
And for the record, homosexuality is only one of many, many issues that divide Anglican liberals and conservatives. Other issues range from the use of a lectionary that virtually excludes the Gospel of John, to the exclusivity of Jesus' claims, to the very existence of God. There are also lesser issues like the ordination of women. The issues are many the divide is wide and getting wider.
I've heard about these earlier falling away from Scripture. It is a shame. To think that someone would trade the truth of His Word for man's traditions. It's similar to the condition of the church 2000 years ago.
I have heard that there is an Episcopal Bishop who is an atheist and still has his position too.
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