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[Poll]
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Exactly what is sin?
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| willful violation of a known law of God |
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| falling short of God's perfect mark |
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| violation of God's laws, whether known or not |
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| The sin nature is always with us |
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| the sin nature can be eradicated |
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| I don't sin, but sometimes I do make "Mistakes" |
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| Other |
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Total Votes : 119
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(last vote on : 8/17/2008 10:12:31 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/3/2008 6:44:22 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3036
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
I've sometimes heard some people talk as if when they do something poorly (perhaps they got a bad grade in school) despite applying themselves diligently, yet they seem to think that their failure is somehow morally wrong. Has anyone else ever experienced this (either personally or in others), and if so, do you have any opinions on it?
I only have opinions on it!  I can't see that as sin. I would like to see what others would have to write about this, though.
If I studied and got a bad grade, well, that's too bad, but I wouldn't call that sin. If I didn't study and got a bad grade, I would call that unintelligent of me, but not sin. The Scriptures say to study (biblical things, concepts) in order to show ourselves "approved" (KJV), but that's all I can think of that would be even remotely applied to this.
There is a danger in adding in things, including sins, to the Bible. I know I am going out on a limb to write this, but for example, the Bible doesn't say dancing is a sin, but some churches will teach that it is. And perhaps, if a child is in one of the schools and gets a bad grade, they might say that is a sin, , but nyahhh. There. You have my opinion. 
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/4/2008 10:15:42 AM
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drmark
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quote:
I don’t think this would be considered a myth as such…I think this is the accepted principle; that we will never in this life be without the sin nature. The thought that we can be sin free is not the majority. So when does "majority" determine correct doctrine?!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 12:41:09 AM
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2Preacher
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All sin is rebellion against God. It is the lifting up of oneself against the principles, laws and commands of God's word. Sometimes it involves things which are against the laws of man or against another human being, but it is always against God.
Since the deception of Eve in the garden by the serpent and the subsequent fall of man, he has been a sinner by nature and by choice. We sin because we are sinners. The lie which Satan told Eve was a two part lie. Number one it said that God was holding out on man by not allowing him to eat of the fruit of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Secondly, it was implied by Satans lie, that man does not need God.
All sin is based on these lies. It is, at its root, prideful selfishness. It is an attitude of the depraved heart of man which says that "I" can be a god unto my self and "I" do not need God. It is man lifting up his will against God's will and doing as he pleases rather than as God has said he should do.
Sin takes many forms. Lying, cheating, stealing, murder, hatred, incest, are all sin and when we look at these things, we see that they are all in direct violation of God's moral law as given in the Ten commandments. There are many more less "noxious" forms of sin as well, but none is any less deadly.
As to different kinds of sin and what is and what isn't sin, it is not a "subjective" matter. The Bible is the definitive place to look for a definition. If God's word calls an individual thing "sin" then it is sin regardless of what I or any one else may think. There are many such areas where Scripture speaks to the issue.
If the bible is silent on a particular issue i.e. it is not in black and white, then the Scriptures give us principles which are to guide our lives . For instance, the Bible does not say " thou shalt not smoke" but it does say that our bodies are the "temple of the Holy spirit" ( I Cor. 6:19-20) . One should defile the temple. Scripture does not say "thou shalt not drink" but it does say that "wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging, and fools are deceived thereby" (Proverbs) It also warns in many other places about the problems associated with drinking.
These "grey areas" are allowed by God because of mans free will. The Word is still the guide which we should use to judge. One simple principle is that, if a particular activity cannot be looked upon as bringing Glory to God then it is sin. (I Cor. 10:31) For the believer this is most true.
Christians are not sinless. We still deal with the old nature daily. We have the same urges and desires, weaknesses of the flesh. The only way of freedom is through submission to the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 7:55:25 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3162
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quote:
Christians are not sinless. We still deal with the old nature daily. 2preacher, why not kill the "old nature" instead of dealing with it daily:
Romans 6:6 - For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
Galatians 5:24 - Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Colossians 3:5 - Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 9:01:08 AM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
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To drmark:
God says through Paul in I Corinthians 15:31b, 34a, "I die daily....Awake to righteousness, and sin not;"
Whenever that flesh creeps up, kill it outright just as you said. The nature remains but the Holy Spirit now empowers us to overcome. But we must willfully do it. It is not a one time thing. Otherwise are you suggesting that the verses you quoted were written in the aorist tense (which they are not) meaning that we die once to sin and are forevermore free from it (e.g. - we don't sin anymore)? God says through Paul in Romans 6:11, "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." This reckoning must be done at every moment when the Holy Spirit checks and says, "This temptatation, this thought is about to advance to sin if you do not crucify the flesh right now (James 1:14-15).
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Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 12:51:32 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Otherwise are you suggesting that the verses you quoted were written in the aorist tense (which they are not) meaning that we die once to sin and are forevermore free from it (e.g. - we don't sin anymore)? I'm not suggesting anything - I'm reading the Word of God which states that the sinful nature has been crucified for those who accept by grace that we do not have to "deal with the old nature daily". I'm sorry, but I do not read 1 Cor 15 as referring to crucifying the flesh. However, I do agree fully with your understanding of James 1 - thanks for sharing, LJC.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 1:14:32 PM
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2Preacher
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[quoteDrmark: why not kill the old nature?quote]
To do that one would have to kill the flesh because the flesh is completely sold to the control of sin. Man is, in his flesh, completely depraved no matter how moral a being he may think himself to be. As long as we live in this fleshly body we will be subjected to the temptations of the old nature. We will be subjected to sin.
The VICTORY comes when we are willing to change our mind concerning sin. Paul, writing in Romans 6 :11 states that we are to "reckon" ourselves to be "dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God. The word "reckon" means to "call it as so" or "to be convinced of the truth of a situation."
"Reckoning myself to be dead to sin" but "alive unto God" is a matter of surrender and choice. It is a conscious decision made in response to the promptings of the Holy Spirit within an individual. We must realize, as our baptism signifies, that we have indeed died with Christ on the Cross. (Galatians 2:20) His substitutionary death bought our freedom from the control of the sin nature.
Galatians 2:20 goes on however to say, "... the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me." Earlier in the verse Paul writes that " I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live..." How can that be? Paul is acknowledging the fact that although he is changed spiritually by the new birth, he still lives in the flesh.
In Romans 6-7, Paul deals with the struggle between his two natures. He is distraught because he has this struggle and yet he is hopeful and joyous because he knows that in the end the victory is his through Christ. ( Romans 7:24-25) So where is the struggle ended in this life? The answer is that it is not ended until we die, but the victory is ours through Christ.
We face battles daily with the flesh and our sin nature. One preacher put it this way. "When a person receives Christ as Saviour, it is as though the Devil goes to work overtime to keep him down." What he meant by that is that the "fight is ON". Unbelievers have no struggle with sin, indeed they have no concept of what it is. For them there is only right and wrong according to conscience. But believers have a renewed sense of sin, a sanctified conscience if you will, as to what is right and wrong. This "renewed conscience toward sin" is the Holy Spirit within who has given us a NEW nature which is opposed to the sin nature - hence the "fight is on".
The battle for our soul is won at Salvation. We are no longer condemned when we have Christ as Saviour. ( Romans 8:1) Heaven is ours. ( I John 5:12-13) However, in our minds the battles have only begun between the OLD and NEW nature. Again, like Paul we cry "who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" and the answer comes back "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord...." It is simply a question of appropriating the victory. Just as we trusted Christ to save us in the first place, we must trust him to keep us and deliver us from sin's temptations.
This is where we fall down in the battle. Many times we fall into the trap of believing that now that we are saved we have nothing to worry about. There is truth to this statement. Regarding eternity, we do have nothing to worry about. Heaven is secured once and for all by my acceptance of Christ and trust in him. The Christian life is however a battle, but it is a battle which is won by FAITH.
When Paul uses the word "reckon" in Romans 6:11 he is saying that the victory lies in our "calling it as it is" and believing that we are dead to sin with Christ, but just as he rose from the grave, we are also "alive unto God". In essence, we have switched masters. Sin no longer controls us. We serve a new Master.
Does this mean that the old nature just fades into oblivion and gives up trying to control us, NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. It rears it's ugly head at every turn in the road constantly tempting us to sin.
The question which must be answered in each of those situtations is " who will I obey?" my old nature (giving in to the temptation) or the Holy Spirit of God who now dwells within me. When we make the conscious choice to choose to obey God, we are in fact, saying no to sin.
Where then does the strength to do this come from? It comes from our "reckoning" ourselves to be dead unto sin. It comes from our surrender to the Holy Spirit of God. It comes from our total dependence on Christ. Philippians 4:13 states " I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me".
Where sin is concerned, as believers we are to consider ourselves as "living dead men". Where Christ is concerned, we are to consider ourselves "alive by the spirit of God." The problem is that we fail to make this distinction sometimes and that is when we sin.
One of the most blessed things about our God and his relationship to us as his children is that he has provided an advocate for us. (I John 2:1-2) It is Christ who saves. It is Christ who keeps. It is Christ who stands before God and pleads our case. Victory is our through Christ alone. Forgiveness is ours through Christ alone.
Are Christians sinless? NO, they are forgiven because of Jesus. Are Christians perfect? Yes, but only on account of Christ sacrifice. We are JUSTIFIED because of him. Can Christians live above sin? Yes, but only through dependence upon Jesus Christ and reckoning ourselves to be dead unto sin and alive unto God.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 4:11:01 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3162
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Thank you for your well-considered and thorough response, 2preacher! It seems we have much more to agree upon than not. However, we do differ in our understanding of how we live the holy life on a daily basis. But the end result is that how we live victoriously over sin is much less important than why we are able to! Praise His Name.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/9/2008 10:21:46 PM
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2Preacher
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Drmark:
Amen to your comments. I really like these forums because they give me a chance to think things through and respond to other intelligent people whether we agree or not. I can appreciate you as a brother in the Lord.
The victory over sin comes through "mortifying" the flesh with its lusts. As you said , the important thing is where the strength comes from. If we depend on ourselves we are doomed to failure. Only Christ gives victory. Stay in the Word. Mortify, reckon as dead, the old nature, and LIVE unto the LORD by his strength.
Galatians 2:20
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/17/2008 8:13:26 PM
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rcjones
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Early rabbis observed that the serpent was "more subtle" than all the other animals, and deduce that the other animals must have been "less subtle" in tempting Eve. They surmise a larger conversation where the serpent suggests that since the animals glorify God by doing things instinctively, that if Eve followed her instincts (looks, good, smells good...) that she would also glorify God.
If part of the original sin was simply to act instinctively without considering what God has said, then we face the same temptation every day. But He has given us clothing to remind us that though our bodies share many characteristics with animals, we are more than animals.
He has given us the morning prayer to re-establish God's word as our guide for the day.
He has given us the Sabbath so that we are reminded not to pass time instinctively.
He has given us grace at meals so that we don't eat instinctively.
...Marriage so that we don't procreate like animals.
...Communion of the saints and the law to build up and edify, reminding us that we are more than "dog-eat-dog" animals.
Though we lapse into instinctive living or responses from time to time, we renew our minds my the washing of his word. The law suggests that we will be "unclean until the evening" which is our death. But that we will be set free upon His glorious return for us.
The 'golden rule' is the opposite of 'instinctive behavior'.
This is the type of sin I believe we will continue to wrestle with.
But rebellion should cease immediately, as the Love of God and His indwelling Spirit give us a heart that is turned toward Him.
_____________________________
Riddle me this:
Job 8.9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/19/2008 5:37:00 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 762
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
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I voted that the sin nature can be eradicated, only to discover I was only the seventh person to do so, one of 6% of the respondents to the poll. I read through the thread--I actually did read most of it--and would like to put my own 2 cents worth in.
I grew up in a Wesleyan church and sometimes heard people testify that they didn't sin anymore. I remember hearing my own mother say it. But I have never said it, because I have never come to believe that about myself, nor did I believe it about the people who were saying it in church. I questioned the doctrine for many years, but now I believe that it is true that our sin nature can be eradicated. But that doesn't eliminate all sin. We don't know everything, and we're not going to act like Jesus in every situation. I do not have full understanding of why sanctified believers are still sinning, and why I still find sin in my own life that I have to repent of and plead with God to deliver me from because I can't stop doing it in my own power, but I do know this: as Christians, our nature is fundamentally changed from that of unbelievers. Have you ever listened to the jokes unbelievers tell about Christians? If you do, it becomes obvious that they believe that we are repressed, unhappy people, constantly obsessed with making sure we don't do what we would very much enjoy if we went ahead and did. I believe that the reason they think this way about us is because that's exactly what they would have to become if they attempted to live according to the Bible.
Another reason I believe the sin nature can be eradicated in the life of a Christian, but that having it eradicated looks very different from what we expect, is a story a friend of mine told me. She told me about attending a funeral of a teenager who had died tragically in an accident. He had only been a Christian for about a year, and was still in many ways "rough around the edges." But the pastor who preached his funeral said of him that he had "100% perfection of desire to please the Lord." And that, I think, is truly possible in this life. The sin nature, that we're all born with, is a desire to do what we want to do regardless of what God wants. And that is what I believe we can be delivered from.
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On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/19/2008 7:20:56 AM
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rcjones
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Annie64
"100% perfection of desire to please the Lord." And that, I think, is truly possible in this life. The sin nature, that we're all born with, is a desire to do what we want to do regardless of what God wants. And that is what I believe we can be delivered from.
Amen. The new heart is not willfully rebellious.
Ps 37
3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
_____________________________
Riddle me this:
Job 8.9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/19/2008 8:27:14 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3162
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quote:
I voted that the sin nature can be eradicated, only to discover I was only the seventh person to do so, one of 6% of the respondents to the poll. Hey Annie, after two years of contributing to these theology forums, I can assure you that Wesleyan/Holiness doctrinal tradition is quite under-represented among the posters here.
quote:
I questioned the doctrine for many years, but now I believe that it is true that our sin nature can be eradicated. But that doesn't eliminate all sin. We don't know everything, and we're not going to act like Jesus in every situation. It always gets back to how one defines "sin". I would simply restate your position by saying I also believe that sin (our sinful nature which leads to willful disobedience) can be eradicated, but that does not eliminate all sinning behavior (imperfections, frailties, and human weaknesses resulting from the Fall).
quote:
I do not have full understanding of why sanctified believers are still sinning Because we are all living in clay jars in this fallen world! Do you believe that sanctified Believers are able NOT to sin, by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit? I certainly do!
quote:
why I still find sin in my own life that I have to repent of and plead with God to deliver me from because I can't stop doing it in my own power This is precisely why our Christian perfection must come solely from Christ's Love infilling our entire being. When we take control, we eventually sin. As long as God is in control, we do not sin.
quote:
But the pastor who preached his funeral said of him that he had "100% perfection of desire to please the Lord." And that, I think, is truly possible in this life. What a great illustration, Annie - thanks for sharing. By the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, each and every Christian can have a heart perfected with 100% desire to serve the Lord in everything we think, do, and say. God bless you as you seek His perfection.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/19/2008 5:23:17 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3036
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Annie64
I voted that the sin nature can be eradicated, only to discover I was only the seventh person to do so, one of 6% of the respondents to the poll. . . .
I grew up in a Wesleyan church and sometimes heard people testify that they didn't sin anymore. I remember hearing my own mother say it.
I grew up in a brand of such churches, that traced its beliefs to Arminius, through Wesley, through Methodism, but they were really none of the above. My mother would make the same claims, but I always knew better, I don't remember Father making those claims, although he was a preacher, but he may have. However, of the two, he lived the more exemplary life (in front of me) by a long shot, but he was certainly not without sin.
Did your mother actually pull it off -- living consistently without sin? I have never known anyone to do it, but i have been searching for that one (other than Messiah, of course) who did it and have yet to find one.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 1:53:01 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 762
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
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There were some things she did that certainly looked like sins to me. That was why I said I didn't believe it. But she was definitely a godly woman.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: Annie64
Did your mother actually pull it off -- living consistently without sin? I have never known anyone to do it, but i have been searching for that one (other than Messiah, of course) who did it and have yet to find one.
I never liked hearing people say they didn't sin. I thought it would keep them from dealing with it when and if they did mess up, because they'd just call it something else.
Drmark,
Thank you, thank you for your response! I appreciate it more than you can know. And yes, I do believe it is possible not to sin. But I haven't found it true in my own life yet. I have a particular thing, a "besetting sin" that I struggle with a lot, and haven't yet found it possible not to fall into it--a thought pattern that I know is wrong, but I cannot get past. I have prayed and prayed about it, and it has caused me some times of doubt, because I know that this sin can't be stronger than the power of God to deliver me, nevertheless it is still there. I cannot, cannot believe that I just have to live with something so unholy and un-Christlike in me. It must be possible not to have these thoughts. But I haven't found it yet. I would appreciate your prayers for me.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 2:13:01 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Thank you for your answer, Annie. I am going to be one Very Excited Woman if I can ever pull it off for a full week! 
_____________________________
Oh, and let me add that your thoughts that when people don't admit their sins, they cannot or do not deal with them is so right on the money. I saw this for all the years I was in that church. Call them errors, call them mistakes, call them personality quirks, and that way, one can just go on, not admitting that they have sinned. I would rather stand before my holy G-d and say, "I have sinned," than stand before Him and try to come up with such excuses.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 9:10:16 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3162
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quote:
I have a particular thing, a "besetting sin" that I struggle with a lot, and haven't yet found it possible not to fall into it--a thought pattern that I know is wrong, but I cannot get past. I have prayed and prayed about it, and it has caused me some times of doubt, because I know that this sin can't be stronger than the power of God to deliver me, nevertheless it is still there. Of course I will pray for you, Annie! May I also make a humble suggestion. In just two sentences exerpted above, you haved used the first person "I" six times. Perhaps it would help you to change your focus to Jesus and see what He can do instead of what you cannot do. I know that Galatians 2:20 can characterize your life just as it did Paul's!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 11:29:13 AM
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rcjones
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Some in the eastern Orthodox tradition have a prayer rope, which purpose it is to remind them to say a simple prayer continually...
"Lord, have mercy on me a sinner."
Any such thing can become ritualistic and meaningless, however, it is not a bad prayer to have when you are tempted to sin, or to say before reacting instinctively. It places the Lord first in your mind. It recognizes the sin nature for what it is, which is the first step in overcoming. It reminds us of our position with God and with other men so that we don't think more highly of ourselves as we ought.
Certainly the desire to overcome sin in this life is a worthy one, that is often dismissed if we think it is not possible.
_____________________________
Riddle me this:
Job 8.9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 11:33:01 AM
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rcjones
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If there were any doctrine that we should err in, it is the error in favor of the doctrine of Holiness.
Would God rather have us seek to overcome sin in this life when it is an impossibility?
Or to not seek to overcome it, when it was within our grasp?
_____________________________
Riddle me this:
Job 8.9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 3:49:50 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
If there were any doctrine that we should err in, it is the error in favor of the doctrine of Holiness.
Would God rather have us seek to overcome sin in this life when it is an impossibility?
Or to not seek to overcome it, when it was within our grasp?
Jones, I am not quite going to go so far as to write that it is impossible to live without sin on this earth, but I am going to write that in my 59 years, I have yet to see it done, even by those in whom I have had the most faith.
I have been surrounded by believers all of my life, and through just over 50 of those years, I was surrounded by people who made those claims, but I haven't seen it done. One would think that among that cloud of witnesses, which included hundreds, some in that group would have stood out as possibilities. Not so.
I know I sin, and my CW thread, http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3538588/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#3632091, is one single evidence of my own inability to live without sin.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/20/2008 6:10:29 PM
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rcjones
Posts: 184
Joined: 5/19/2008
Status: offline
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I am not sure why you would take issue with my comment, since I neither affirmed nor denied that Holiness was possible.
Are you going to discourage others from trying by saying it is impossible, or you tell others not to worry about their sin "because no one's perfect?"
I think not. I would never suggest such a thing.
Let's take an example that is outside of scripture. In our church, whenever you have an ice cream cone you have to think of Jesus. (I just made this up.)
Would you come along and say that this isn't scriptural, and we shouldn't think of Jesus when we eat ice cream?
Why would someone do this? We should always think of Jesus. So frankly, I would encourage people to strive for Holiness in their daily walks even if I didn't have one shred of scripture that supported the idea. Christ is worthy enough to warrant our effort in it even if our effort is totally ineffectual.
Someone will come along and accuse me of adding works to faith, and I have done no such thing. Striving for Holiness is a work of love, not a work of salvation. Christ is worthy of our obedience.
Furthermore, I would never be one to excuse another's sin since :
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
It is said that we should hate the sin and love the sinner, but I suspect all too often we forget the first half.
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Riddle me this:
Job 8.9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
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RE: Exactly what is sin? - 7/21/2008 12:47:02 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3036
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
I am not sure why you would take issue with my comment, since I neither affirmed nor denied that Holiness was possible.
Jones, you are new here, so you don't know me. Please understand that I do not "take issue" with you at all. I thought we were just chatting, exchanging ideas. I have no problem with you. Okay? 
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
Are you going to discourage others from trying by saying it is impossible, or you tell others not to worry about their sin "because no one's perfect?" I have been around here a long time, Jones -- longer than the date on my present I.D. indicates. I want to assure that not once have I ever told anyone "not to worry about their sin." That simply is not in either my thoughts or vocabulary. Okay?
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
. . . frankly, I would encourage people to strive for Holiness in their daily walks even if I didn't have one shred of scripture that supported the idea. Christ is worthy enough to warrant our effort in it even if our effort is totally ineffectual.
Jones, you don't know me yet, I assure you. There is likely no one here who strives more for holi living that do I, but at the same time, I also admit that my striving is as filthy rags before G-d, because He is, has, and contains all of any holiness I may ever "attain," because He alone is holy, and His Name is holy. I have no problem with that, because while my personal holiness is so imperfect, His is perfect enough for me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
. . . Striving for Holines | | |
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