RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (Full Version)

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SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 12:27:28 AM)

quote:

They will not subcontract the task of educating their children to the systematic and sworn enemies of the Christian faith,


Last time I checked salvation was not dependant on where you send your kids to school. While I can commend you ( and this case it is specific ) for your ferver, it is however not an absolute. As I stated before, if the school has more moral influence over children than the parents, its not the school's fault.

Its the parents.

This kind of "fanaticism" some might say is the anti-wishy washy stance. I prefer to call it...legalism. When you start to qualify salvation upon works, you will always end up in a very legalistic position.

Commitment to Jesus is not measured in rule following...alone. Its measured in love, how you love, and whom you love. The OT was filled with rules...and God sent Jesus to straighten us out.



MrFribbles -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 12:36:43 AM)

quote:

Last time I checked salvation was not dependant on where you send your kids to school.


Sure it is! It's right there in, um... 2nd Colossians?
Heh, I'm a former home schooler myself (all 12 grades, too), and I agree with you that there is no absolute place that children must be educated. It's a decision that every family has to make prayerfully. Some kids will fair much better in public schools - some in private - and some kids, in some odd combination thereof!



mayfly -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 1:18:26 AM)

Hi, I'm coming into this kind of late I know, but I've read the whole thread and it's really interesting. I have a (related) question for you folks, based on something that I was talking to my FH about. He was talking about his career ambitions (he's planning on being a pastor) and he was saying kind of apologetically that God had to come first for him BECAUSE of his chosen career, and that he was sorry that I couldn't be his #1. I was kind of confused--I thought that being a Christian inherently meant that God comes first in your life? I know that that is how I try to live my life. I told him so and he was amazed. I think the church he attends must have a lot of wishy-washy believers, or else he wouldn't have assumed that a)God doesn't come first in all Christians' lives and that b)I wouldn't understand why God is his highest priority.

So my question for you folks is, would you equate wishy-washyness with not giving God first priority in your life? Why do you think so many supposed Christians don't put Him first?



MrFribbles -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 1:44:56 AM)

quote:

he was saying kind of apologetically that God had to come first for him BECAUSE of his chosen career, and that he was sorry that I couldn't be his #1.


While I certainly agree that Christ must be first in our lives, I would be careful! Your FH's relationship with you is his first and most important ministry! Being in the same position as your FH (getting married in one week and one month, and I plan on being a Pastor eventually), I feel that any job or ministry that keeps me from meeting the needs of my wife will be a ministry or job that God does not want me in. Same thing goes for kids, whenever they come along.

But I agree with your post in general. I'm not sure what's causing it, aside from the general sinful notion all humans have that the universe really is about them, and the extra dose we as Americans get of that from our popular culture.



mayfly -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 3:13:08 AM)

I don't think he meant that I couldn't be his first priority on this earth, or that I couldn't come before his ministry necessarily, but just that God was the #1 most important thing to him. (Although I think we need to talk and clarify what he meant exactly on that--I don't want to make assumptions.) I just don't understand how anyone can call themselves a Christian and NOT have God come first.

I have to admit, I'm new to faith (I was raised atheist and converted fairly recently) but it just strikes me as odd that a person could be saved, accept the Lord into their heart, and then choose to put worldly things above God. For me at least, I feel like it would be impossible for me to put anything above the Lord, at least not without feeling incredibly guilty about it. The things I do here on earth are important to me BECAUSE of the Lord. My relationship with my FH, my career path, my day to day activities, and everything else I do are all a direct result of my relationship with God. They are all about glorifying Him.

Now of course I fail sometimes, and I'm far from perfect, but that is my goal. Isn't that pretty much what everyone believes? Like I said I'm new to all of this and I don't have a supportive church community where I live right now, so it's rare for me to come in contact with other like minded Christians.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 9:22:06 AM)

Its very possible your future husband is informing you in the most diplomatic way, that his future vocation may take up a lot of his time and energy...and you may have to "take a back seat" when it comes to some things in your relationship



RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 6:28:21 PM)

quote:


I'll tell you what... I would rather have someone out there with a heart for Christ... someone who is on fire for the Lord, any day of the week over their money. TITHING just doesn't cut it with me.


Jesus preached a lot more about money than he did about pious vaporings. In fact, He said that we value what we invest in. Our hearts follow our treasure. It's not my role to judge someone's heart -- or yours. I tend to be suspicious of folks who make a big production out of how pious they feel, but react warmly to those who are "for real," or as Oliver Cromwell demanded, "warts and all."

Tithing is "for real." Pious vaporings are hot air.

Living on 1.n incomes and doing what it takes to raise your kids in the Christian perspective, rather than in secular humanism, is "for real." Sending God's little lambs out into the care of the wolves "to be a witness" is not appropriate Christian behavior at this point in history, no matter what kind of VRG[1] you use as a fig leaf.


[1] I owe this nifty acronym to Bob Mumford. It stands for "verbalized religious garbage," and is the most frequent substitute we try to offer God for simple obedience.



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 10:51:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

quote:


I'll tell you what... I would rather have someone out there with a heart for Christ... someone who is on fire for the Lord, any day of the week over their money. TITHING just doesn't cut it with me.


Jesus preached a lot more about money than he did about pious vaporings. In fact, He said that we value what we invest in. Our hearts follow our treasure. It's not my role to judge someone's heart -- or yours. I tend to be suspicious of folks who make a big production out of how pious they feel, but react warmly to those who are "for real," or as Oliver Cromwell demanded, "warts and all."

Tithing is "for real." Pious vaporings are hot air.


You left out the part of me saying that there are thousands of people out there tossing a few bucks in the plate and then thinking that they are doing their "Christian Duty." As I have said many times... folks only put in quotes the parts they want to pick apart, and neglect the meat of the comment.

You see... money ain't nothin' if the person isn't there (in church) for the right reasons or if they are putting money in the plate for show or thinking they are buying their way to heaven!

Jesus said to give joyfully... and He doesn't want our money if it isn't for the right reasons... no matter how much He has talked about it! He doesn't need "hush money" or "payola" or "token tithing"... He doesn't need our money at all! He wants our love and obedience.

AND..... Pious vaporings???? please.[8|]

quote:


Living on 1.n incomes and doing what it takes to raise your kids in the Christian perspective, rather than in secular humanism, is "for real." Sending God's little lambs out into the care of the wolves "to be a witness" is not appropriate Christian behavior at this point in history, no matter what kind of VRG[1] you use as a fig leaf.


I have 4 adult children who all attended public schools. Those same 4 children went to church, Bible Study, Wednesday night church, Church camp, etc.... were taught in the home how to pray since they could talk, and were modeled Christ before them.

They were taught how to stand on their own two feet, speak up for justice, take a stand against wrong doing and to trust in their Father (God).

When opposition came at school... they knew what to do. When the teachers wanted to teach them evolution... they took a stand and told their teacher, "no thank you... it is against my beliefs and I choose not to partake." And after several meetings with principles... my kids were excused for those discussions. When the science teacher who allowed a cult practicing young man to discuss his beliefs, my eldest daughter demanded that she be able to discuss hers. When the same teacher waved his science book in the air declaring it to be the class bible... the same daughter took her Holy Bible to school and declared that she could also show the class hers. When the teachers handed out the "required reading" and my kids found that these books demeaned their Lord, they asked to be excused from reading that book. And after more meetings with principles, etc., they were allowed.

Now some may call them rebels... but they were rebels WITH a cause. They made a statement.... they stood up for Christ and their beliefs... and people listened. Something folks should be teaching their children to do today, rather than hiding them away. Something like... oh, I don't know... maybe something like hiding your light under a bushel. [sm=aside.gif]

They're are all grown and raising their own children with those same set of standards. Praise the Lord!

Public school works... as long as the kids have their priorities straight. It comes from what they learn in the home... from the parents.
[sm=aside.gif]

PS... I don't spout religious garbage... I spout the truth.
[:)]



ta_mosquito -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/1/2008 11:20:42 PM)

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pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/2/2008 12:37:04 AM)

Back on topic...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

Its very possible your future husband is informing you in the most diplomatic way, that his future vocation may take up a lot of his time and energy...and you may have to "take a back seat" when it comes to some things in your relationship


I agree. I thought this when I first read the post.

Even if he never knew this before... sounds like he is learning it now... and that doesn't make him wishy-washy.

There are many things that God reveals to us as we grow in Him. It's the act of "growing" that sets those folks apart from the wishy-washy ones.
[:)]



mayfly -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/2/2008 1:33:13 AM)

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're saying, or that you understand what I'm saying.

Basically what I was trying to say is not that he is a wishy-washy Christian himself, but that I was surprised that he considered it "abnormal" in some way for the primary focus of his life to be on God. I was trying to say, albeit in a very rambling way, that I believe that's pretty much the #1 requirement for calling yourself a Christian: God is the centre of your life. Period.

Did y'all get that or was I off on another irrelevant tangent?



SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/2/2008 2:09:53 AM)

quote:

Jesus preached a lot more about money than he did about pious vaporings


Matthew 23:23..

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

The proper focus....on tithing and mercy. Its not an either or. Its both. That...is not wishy washiness.



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/2/2008 2:42:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mayfly

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're saying, or that you understand what I'm saying.

Basically what I was trying to say is not that he is a wishy-washy Christian himself, but that I was surprised that he considered it "abnormal" in some way for the primary focus of his life to be on God. I was trying to say, albeit in a very rambling way, that I believe that's pretty much the #1 requirement for calling yourself a Christian: God is the centre of your life. Period.

Did y'all get that or was I off on another irrelevant tangent?


Not everyone gets that right off the boat (that God is number 1)... It is something that God puts in us as we grow in Him. We fall in love with Him more and more until He is #1. I'm not saying that that revelation doesn't come to some immediately when they receive Him... but not everyone has a Road to Damascus experience when the find Christ.

Really... I think it's not a big deal. He's growing more in love with Jesus.
[;)]



growingseed -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/3/2008 10:31:01 AM)

When you plant a seed and expect the next day that it will be a fully grown tree, is not spiritual reality. Though some people think that to be true in there lives. But having come from darkness to light, i've experienced what Jesus means to seek heaven first and to work at believeing that Jesus is the Son of God. (example) All my life in darkness have been right handed, then when i became saved i have to learn to be left handed because that's my new nature, so unless i practice to be left handed with everything i won't learn to be in my new nature. Because most the time (even christians respond right handed-old nature) it takes practice to respond in our new nature. That's the beauty of his grace and patience, his love allows us to come to him to learn who we are and to practice his ways, and we may even try to do it our way, and that's where the conviction of the Holy Spirit telling us that we are left handed and no longer right handed. But we still have a right handed tendency that we have to deal with, it may be a life long practice or not. Wishy or washy.



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/3/2008 12:10:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: growingseed

(example) All my life in darkness have been right handed, then when i became saved i have to learn to be left handed because that's my new nature, so unless i practice to be left handed with everything i won't learn to be in my new nature. Because most the time (even Christians respond right handed-old nature) it takes practice to respond in our new nature.


Good Analogy! [:D]



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/5/2008 1:28:02 AM)

Ive been one so I know first-hand. My walk with Christ began in 93. But only recently have I began to "give into Gods Will" and start dying to self. I don't think that I "meant" to be that way, I believe that I just didn't "get it". I believed in Jesus, I went to church, blablabla. It is my experience that God will use adversity in my life to turn me more and more in to His Will. I have cried, screamed, thrown tantrums and said why why why, and only in the last 2 years am I realizing that my life can never be the same, in any way. I believe in free will, and I believe I can turn my back and "try to run" but there is no where to hide from the Lord. Adam and Eve knew that, Jonah knew that, the list goes on.

The last 2 years have been the "worst" in my life if I look at it from the "worlds" ideas. Financially, healthwise. But spiritually, I think it would be hard to find anyone as blessed as I am, and I know it. I know there are many that know it, don't misunderstand.

I admire people that get saved and follow God to the letter. I haven't been one of those. But maybe that is all in His plan. Maybe it is about His timing not mine. Maybe it is about the scales being removed from my eyes. Of one thing I am sure, His love for me is indescribable. Anyone but God would have tossed me in the lake a long time ago. But I am here to tell the story. I have some of that peace that passes all understanding, security, contenment, joy. People don't get how I can be smiling with the outside circumstances.

Im grateful for this forum. I was on a dating site "with" a religious forum and I was so hungry for christian fellowship. I rarely get to go to church right now. So again, God provides a way:)



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/5/2008 11:10:07 PM)

Hello neighbor!! You're not too far from me!

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

It is my experience that God will use adversity in my life to turn me more and more in to His Will. I have cried, screamed, thrown tantrums and said why why why, and only in the last 2 years am I realizing that my life can never be the same, in any way. I believe in free will, and I believe I can turn my back and "try to run" but there is no where to hide from the Lord. Adam and Eve knew that, Jonah knew that, the list goes on.


This is awesome... it is so great when people realize this. So many people blame God, rather than letting Him refine them.

quote:


Maybe it is about the scales being removed from my eyes. Of one thing I am sure, His love for me is indescribable. Anyone but God would have tossed me in the lake a long time ago. But I am here to tell the story. I have some of that peace that passes all understanding, security, contenment, joy. People don't get how I can be smiling with the outside circumstances.


Praise God we serve a loving Father who takes us back time and time again!
[:D]



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/5/2008 11:37:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

Hello neighbor!! You're not too far from me!

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

It is my experience that God will use adversity in my life to turn me more and more in to His Will. I have cried, screamed, thrown tantrums and said why why why, and only in the last 2 years am I realizing that my life can never be the same, in any way. I believe in free will, and I believe I can turn my back and "try to run" but there is no where to hide from the Lord. Adam and Eve knew that, Jonah knew that, the list goes on.


This is awesome... it is so great when people realize this. So many people blame God, rather than letting Him refine them.

quote:


Maybe it is about the scales being removed from my eyes. Of one thing I am sure, His love for me is indescribable. Anyone but God would have tossed me in the lake a long time ago. But I am here to tell the story. I have some of that peace that passes all understanding, security, contenment, joy. People don't get how I can be smiling with the outside circumstances.


Praise God we serve a loving Father who takes us back time and time again!
[:D]

Thats awesome to know you are a neighbor. I was born in Roseburg and came to So. Oregon by way of WA, AL, NE, NC, WY, CA, MT, TX. I think that's it, LOL!!!!!!! Home to stay God Willing:)

ysic, denise:)



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/5/2008 11:39:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

quote:

ORIGINAL: growingseed

(example) All my life in darkness have been right handed, then when i became saved i have to learn to be left handed because that's my new nature, so unless i practice to be left handed with everything i won't learn to be in my new nature. Because most the time (even Christians respond right handed-old nature) it takes practice to respond in our new nature.


Good Analogy! [:D]

I second that!! ysic, denise:)



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/7/2008 1:05:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

Thats awesome to know you are a neighbor. I was born in Roseburg and came to So. Oregon by way of WA, AL, NE, NC, WY, CA, MT, TX. I think that's it, LOL!!!!!!! Home to stay God Willing:)

ysic, denise:)


We are in Shady Cove... but our ministry may be taking us to Brookings or Gold Beach area. Still... we'll still be neighbors. [:D]

I was born and raised in So Cal... I miss it.

A lot of wishy-washy's there too though.[&o]



KnowJesus -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/7/2008 1:50:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

Thats awesome to know you are a neighbor. I was born in Roseburg and came to So. Oregon by way of WA, AL, NE, NC, WY, CA, MT, TX. I think that's it, LOL!!!!!!! Home to stay God Willing:)

ysic, denise:)


We are in Shady Cove... but our ministry may be taking us to Brookings or Gold Beach area. Still... we'll still be neighbors. [:D]

I was born and raised in So Cal... I miss it.

A lot of wishy-washy's there too though.[&o]




HI Neighbors

I was born in No CA and raised in So CA....and I don't miss it!

My husband and I like Grants Pass. The Lord would have to call us back there to get us to return. He directed us to OR, to get our attention. We came to Christ here in OR.

Thanks pstrdebi...for this topic you started. Four pages now on wishy-washies, already.



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/7/2008 2:13:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnowJesus

HI Neighbors

I was born and raised, too in So CA....and I don't miss it!

My husband and I like Grants Pass. The Lord would have to call us back there to get us to return. He directed us to OR, to get our attention. We came to Christ here in OR.

Thanks pstrdebi...for this topic you started. Four pages now on wishy-washies, already.


It's interesting how God moves. I lived in So Cal all my life and never thought I would leave there... but God had other plans. I guess He obviously had other plans for you too! [:D]



KnowJesus -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/7/2008 3:51:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnowJesus

HI Neighbors

I was born and raised, too in So CA....and I don't miss it!

My husband and I like Grants Pass. The Lord would have to call us back there to get us to return. He directed us to OR, to get our attention. We came to Christ here in OR.

Thanks pstrdebi...for this topic you started. Four pages now on wishy-washies, already.


It's interesting how God moves. I lived in So Cal all my life and never thought I would leave there... but God had other plans. I guess He obviously had other plans for you too! [:D]


Yes, God had other plans for us.

Funny, how I thought we were in control of our moving to OR! But after I came to Christ, he's revealed to me that his plans had been set in place, long before we made the move here.

By the way, I edited last nights post. I meant to say I was born in N. CA and raised in So. CA. My parents moved south when I was a baby.

pstrdebi...I don't want to be a thread killer. I'll try to delete my off topic posts by tomorrow evening.



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/8/2008 11:58:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnowJesus

pstrdebi...I don't want to be a thread killer. I'll try to delete my off topic posts by tomorrow evening.


That's ok... don't worry about it.
To get us back on topic... How do you feel about the churches or the people where you live? Here in this little town... the churches (some) seem quite wishy-washy. There is a pastor of a small church here who says he is an ordained Christian pastor.... and a (Catholic?) priest... and a rabbi.
[&:]
That's seems wishy-washy if you ask me.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (7/8/2008 1:36:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnowJesus

pstrdebi...I don't want to be a thread killer. I'll try to delete my off topic posts by tomorrow evening.


That's ok... don't worry about it.
To get us back on topic... How do you feel about the churches or the people where you live? Here in this little town... the churches (some) seem quite wishy-washy. There is a pastor of a small church here who says he is an ordained Christian pastor.... and a (Catholic?) priest... and a rabbi.
[&:]
That's seems wishy-washy if you ask me.


Hi Debi, the last thing I want to do is hurt someone but to be honest, when I realized what your username said, I was not comfortable with it as I do not believe in women being pastors, over men anyway. If you are, it makes me think what other bible/scripture is misunderstood or not looked at. If it means something else, please accept my humble apology.

To answer your question, it is very difficult in my opinion, to find a church(bldg, group)with biblical doctrine today. In fact, it seems "they" are all going with what they "think" instead of what God "said". I am going to go to Trail fellowship as I see their doctrine pretty close to biblical, if not entirely. But, I will allow the Holy Spirit to discern that for me when I go.

Again, I truly did not want to hurt you. I am just so careful and do all I can to fill myself with Him so that I won't be deceived in this fallen world.

Living for Him, denise



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