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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/8/2008 1:58:00 PM
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growingseed
Posts: 157
Joined: 5/24/2005
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It's funny what you remember when you walked in darkness. I remember seeing a picture of footsteps in the sand and some friends home and asked them what it meant. I really thought wow! Then i became a Christian and really undestood how that could be true, but maybe at the beginning and at the end.
1. The lord does carry you when you are growing because we are to weak in spirit to walk on our own.
2. But from my life and the Lord teaches that we are all going through the same thing in that we are learning to be obediant, there are a set of footprints with dotted and snakey trial behind the footprints. I realize i was making that pattern because the Lord was dragging me forward and i was fighting to have things my way. We mislead ourselves thinking that we are so obediant when in fact we try to break free from moving forward.
3. Then there are footprints behind the others footprints, which is me finally realizing that i want to follow, but i still will be learning to walk in his strides.
4. Finally and i don't know if that will ever happen, but i believe that with God nothing is impossible, that we walk with his stride in his footsteps, so that when you look you see one set of prints.
His grace is sufficient, which makes me try harder to listen.
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/8/2008 6:13:13 PM
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celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: growingseed
It's funny what you remember when you walked in darkness. I remember seeing a picture of footsteps in the sand and some friends home and asked them what it meant. I really thought wow! Then i became a Christian and really undestood how that could be true, but maybe at the beginning and at the end.
1. The lord does carry you when you are growing because we are to weak in spirit to walk on our own.
2. But from my life and the Lord teaches that we are all going through the same thing in that we are learning to be obediant, there are a set of footprints with dotted and snakey trial behind the footprints. I realize i was making that pattern because the Lord was dragging me forward and i was fighting to have things my way. We mislead ourselves thinking that we are so obediant when in fact we try to break free from moving forward.
3. Then there are footprints behind the others footprints, which is me finally realizing that i want to follow, but i still will be learning to walk in his strides.
4. Finally and i don't know if that will ever happen, but i believe that with God nothing is impossible, that we walk with his stride in his footsteps, so that when you look you see one set of prints.
His grace is sufficient, which makes me try harder to listen.
This was a good read and thank you for your witness. I relate. For me "the dragging" is of myself, not God dragging me but rather Him leading me on, while I am just scuffling my feet along because I know I have to go with Him, I truly want to, but that old nature is always there trying to slither in and get me to not just stop, but to go follow the "other". I imagine this stubborn little girl walking 10 feet behind her mom or dad. They are leading the way, but she/he is not getting their way maybe, so they slow way down and sort of, drag their feet and pout. The child freaks if the parents disappear from sight though because the child knows they are alone without them and that is scary, for a little one:) I am like a little one. I know I need to be going along, and I make myself miserable by balking:) Yes, obedience. Dead on GS!
Hey, thank you for your post, it really hit home, God bless you, ysic, denise
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/10/2008 2:34:52 AM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 650
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911
Hi Debi, the last thing I want to do is hurt someone but to be honest, when I realized what your username said, I was not comfortable with it as I do not believe in women being pastors, over men anyway. If you are, it makes me think what other bible/scripture is misunderstood or not looked at. If it means something else, please accept my humble apology.
To answer your question, it is very difficult in my opinion, to find a church(bldg, group)with biblical doctrine today. In fact, it seems "they" are all going with what they "think" instead of what God "said". I am going to go to Trail fellowship as I see their doctrine pretty close to biblical, if not entirely. But, I will allow the Holy Spirit to discern that for me when I go.
Again, I truly did not want to hurt you. I am just so careful and do all I can to fill myself with Him so that I won't be deceived in this fallen world.
Living for Him, denise
I understand... and there isn't too much that can hurt me. I have been through way too much in my life, than to let a few opinions hurt me. You are entitled to your opinion.
1st... This thread is not about me.
2nd... I am under the covering of my husband... our Senior Pator.
3rd... I am not trying to preach or teach anyone here; I am giving my opinion, ideas, thoughts, etc... just like anyone else in these forums.
4th... I'm not trying to solicit our church to you.
and
5th... don't be fooled by false teachings. There were many women teaching in Jesus day. Do a study on women teaching and preaching for yourself... don't go by what you have just heard in the past. I am certainly not trying to sway you or anyone else for that matter...
and when I do teach, I teach from the Word of God... I preach Christ, and Him crucified. Much more than I can say for a lot of big male preachers I have heard on the telivision lately that are tickling 1000's of ears.
They are wishy-washy, who won't preach the truth of Christ.
Again (for anyone else)... this thread is not about me... it's about wishy-washy Christians.
Blessings...
Pastor Debi
PS... the quote you quoted was a reply to KnowJesus... were you answering what I asked her, or the wishy-washy one?
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/10/2008 9:21:18 AM
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celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
quote:
ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911
Hi Debi, the last thing I want to do is hurt someone but to be honest, when I realized what your username said, I was not comfortable with it as I do not believe in women being pastors, over men anyway. If you are, it makes me think what other bible/scripture is misunderstood or not looked at. If it means something else, please accept my humble apology.
To answer your question, it is very difficult in my opinion, to find a church(bldg, group)with biblical doctrine today. In fact, it seems "they" are all going with what they "think" instead of what God "said". I am going to go to Trail fellowship as I see their doctrine pretty close to biblical, if not entirely. But, I will allow the Holy Spirit to discern that for me when I go.
Again, I truly did not want to hurt you. I am just so careful and do all I can to fill myself with Him so that I won't be deceived in this fallen world.
Living for Him, denise
I understand... and there isn't too much that can hurt me. I have been through way too much in my life, than to let a few opinions hurt me. You are entitled to your opinion.
1st... This thread is not about me.
2nd... I am under the covering of my husband... our Senior Pator.
3rd... I am not trying to preach or teach anyone here; I am giving my opinion, ideas, thoughts, etc... just like anyone else in these forums.
4th... I'm not trying to solicit our church to you.
and
5th... don't be fooled by false teachings. There were many women teaching in Jesus day. Do a study on women teaching and preaching for yourself... don't go by what you have just heard in the past. I am certainly not trying to sway you or anyone else for that matter...
and when I do teach, I teach from the Word of God... I preach Christ, and Him crucified. Much more than I can say for a lot of big male preachers I have heard on the telivision lately that are tickling 1000's of ears.
They are wishy-washy, who won't preach the truth of Christ.
Again (for anyone else)... this thread is not about me... it's about wishy-washy Christians.
Blessings...
Pastor Debi
PS... the quote you quoted was a reply to KnowJesus... were you answering what I asked her, or the wishy-washy one?
Sorry to have offended you.
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/10/2008 10:20:22 AM
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celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
quote:
ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911
Sorry to have offended you.
You didn't offend me. Like I said... it's ok. I find it funny that more women have a problem with me being a Pastor than men do.
Just because a woman is a pastor... doesn't mean you can't talk to them or interact in discussion with them. If folks are going to continue to hang on to the whole "women shouldn't teach men" thing... then you need to pull all the women Sunday school teachers out of class that are teaching 13 year old boys, since that is the age of accountability in Biblical times and that boy is a man at age 13.
Since women are teaching these 13 years olds, and the preachers are teaching from the pulpits that women should keep silent and not teach... isn't that wishy-washy?
(just trying to keep it on topic!)
God bless you, Denise...
love in Christ,
Pastor Debi
No, you misunderstood debi. By the way, I looked at your website and if it hadn't been that one thing about you being called a Pastor I would have visited your church in a moment. I do not see unGodly people here. I am just wanting to hear from God, again, on this subject so once again I am doing what I am told, read His Word. No, women are meant to lead women in some areas and I like a woman present when I talk with my pastor. I love women, they are my sisters and I would not survive without their counsel and learning to be accountable.
I see much of Jesus teachings being slowly but surely "left out" though, so again, I take my time before I jump, well, most of the time. Im sort of a Peter, wack an ear off and then have to have a time out:( I know that my comments hurt you debi, it was clear in your writing. Maybe you don't see it but I do and again, I am sorry. I beleive you to be a sister in Christ, but each of us can get caught up in "wordly" ways and they sound so right, but are not God's plan. So we study with an open heart. And listen for His direction. I know you don't know me but I would not say anything for a long time. But now, if I feel it is the Holy Spirit telling me something isn't quite right, I will speak with His guidance. I am humble and speak from the voice of experience. You say you've been through a lot so nothing hurts you. So have I but things still hurt me. But blessed is the man/woman that mourns, right?
I am going to post a thread on this, because you are right about changing the topic and I apoligize the originator of it.
God bless you and yours debi. Things are moving faster everyday and the church(groups)as well as the Body of Christ must stand firm in His Word. To do that, for me, is to be in His Word. So I am off to do that. If you feel you want to talk more about this, write me anytime.
Your sister in Christ, denise
We live so close, it would be nice to be friends, God willing.
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/10/2008 10:30:45 AM
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celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
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shoot, didnt see this, and all the RED, accept my apology please:) in Christ, denise
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/10/2008 1:54:21 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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There is one thing I would like to say and I think it is on topic.
We must not confuse differing doctrine for wishy washiness. I have seen too many times, esspecially in these forums and chat, divisions in the body over what to me are minor issues.
I saw today on an episode of Touched by an Angel the conflict between catholics and protestants in Ireland. While it is more than religion, it saddens me to have christians killing each other over doctrinal differences. How many people must die, either naturally or spiritually because we are so in love with our doctrines, we forget to love others?
I am a very firm believer in...believeing what you believe with all your heart and to be open to be led by the correcting voice of the Holy Spirit. We must not call another with a differing doctrine something they are not.
None of our doctrines are perfect. No one understands all there is in the bible and if you can't recognise the minor issues from the true issues contained oin the truth of the bible then...you are the opposite of wishy washiness...legalism.
I would also like to say, that if you believe exactly what your church is teaching...all 100% of it, then you do not read the bible, you are not asking for a personal revelation and very possibly you are worshipping your church over God.
Having said that, I will say I agree with about 95% of what my pastor believes. ( The main difference is the issue discussed in the previous few posts )
Fact is, unity in the church is not conformity of thought, its agreement in action. A church, of Christ, will love people, will reach people, will proclaim the gospel, will feed the poor, will take care of its own, and will be a place of safety and encouragement. No gossip allowed, ever. You gossip in my church, you will garner pastoral...attention...
A church, of Christ, will also...convict. It will not do so in pride. It will not do so to cut people off in self righteousness. It will do so to temper the Elect. To sanctify and if neccesary, to seperate them FOR the reason of reconcilation.
A church that loves rules over loving people..is dead. I am sorry to offend the holiness crowd but...a church that does not have seekers is also a dead church. If the unsaved are not welcome, just close your doors. It is very possible to equip the saints and lead the unsaved to Christ...with the same sermon. We do it every week. The sermon has bite. People are led to the Lord, every weekend. Just another reason for small group bible study. The people who want a deeper relationship, more knowledge and true christian fellowship can get these from a small group bible study.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/11/2008 9:04:46 AM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 650
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
There is one thing I would like to say and I think it is on topic.
We must not confuse differing doctrine for wishy washiness. I have seen too many times, esspecially in these forums and chat, divisions in the body over what to me are minor issues.
I saw today on an episode of Touched by an Angel the conflict between catholics and protestants in Ireland. While it is more than religion, it saddens me to have christians killing each other over doctrinal differences. How many people must die, either naturally or spiritually because we are so in love with our doctrines, we forget to love others?
I am a very firm believer in...believeing what you believe with all your heart and to be open to be led by the correcting voice of the Holy Spirit. We must not call another with a differing doctrine something they are not.
None of our doctrines are perfect. No one understands all there is in the bible and if you can't recognise the minor issues from the true issues contained oin the truth of the bible then...you are the opposite of wishy washiness...legalism.
I would also like to say, that if you believe exactly what your church is teaching...all 100% of it, then you do not read the bible, you are not asking for a personal revelation and very possibly you are worshipping your church over God.
Having said that, I will say I agree with about 95% of what my pastor believes. ( The main difference is the issue discussed in the previous few posts )
Fact is, unity in the church is not conformity of thought, its agreement in action. A church, of Christ, will love people, will reach people, will proclaim the gospel, will feed the poor, will take care of its own, and will be a place of safety and encouragement. No gossip allowed, ever. You gossip in my church, you will garner pastoral...attention...
A church, of Christ, will also...convict. It will not do so in pride. It will not do so to cut people off in self righteousness. It will do so to temper the Elect. To sanctify and if neccesary, to seperate them FOR the reason of reconcilation.
A church that loves rules over loving people..is dead. I am sorry to offend the holiness crowd but...a church that does not have seekers is also a dead church. If the unsaved are not welcome, just close your doors. It is very possible to equip the saints and lead the unsaved to Christ...with the same sermon. We do it every week. The sermon has bite. People are led to the Lord, every weekend. Just another reason for small group bible study. The people who want a deeper relationship, more knowledge and true christian fellowship can get these from a small group bible study.
Thanks for this dear friend...
I agree with almost all your comments...
Although we don't agree on all things (life would be dull, wouldn't it? ) we do agree on the main "convictions" of the Body of Christ... and that is what is truly important.
I dare say, that if you (YOU) knew there was a man that needed salvation, and I was the only Christian left... you would not deny this man his salvation just because I'm a woman.
That wouldn't be wishy-washy... that would just be using common sense.
I do want to state though... that there are many doctrines that border on the edge of wishy-washiness, grant it, many of these churches lay claim to Christianity... but are wolves in sheeps clothing.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/11/2008 9:46:46 AM
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celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
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I see a lot of validity in what people say. There is almost always something true in all we speak if we truly know the Lord. I never forget that satan knew and knows scripture well. I think the danger in "little differences" can be(this is just a "can be")as dangerous as an obvious difference in what the bible says and what a "church" doctrine says(an elephant in the living room but no one choses to deal with it. Things "pile up"). I believe that if there is doctrine within a "body" that is not biblical(and that's the only "difference" Im talking about here)than what else is done within that body that is not biblical? It puts me on yellow alert and so should it with any follower of Christ. It isn't about the people, it's about the powers and the prinicipalities that attempt to seek and destroy those who are not "awake". I think it interesting that this same discussion is going on in so many forums/sites, devotionals, in sermons. I think it's bottomline??? Endtimes, false-teaching running rampant, false everything. Christians need to cling to His Word and listen deeply for that discernment that will come if we pay attention to His Voice.
Im not talking about a "dresscode" or a band thats too loud(in somes opinion). As far as if it's and unsaved person and a "christian" being the last ones on Earth?? If that christian is counterfeit, I pray God there is a bible around so the unsaved would have a chance to know Who God really is. And, if that came to pass(which according to the bible, I dont think it will)God would offer Himself to the unsaved person. The other would either "get it right" with God or, well, we all know what happens to those that don't or won't.
Living for Him, denise
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/11/2008 1:14:06 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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Often its a delicate balance between wishy washiness and legalism.
Our spiritual leaders have many pressures upon them. They are never going to please everyone and hopefully they are only there to please God. Unfortunatly the world does get in the way...or can get in the way.
The mortgage. The funding for ministries. The lack of volunteers. Church repairs. Water bills. What direction the church needs to go in. Feeling out the congregation to their needs. Doctrinal decisions. I am sure there must be a ton more.
Sometimes doctrinal differences are not due to wishy washiness.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/11/2008 2:45:31 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1876
Status: offline
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WW is not knowing what you truly believe and allowing someone to change your mind because it's not a popular thought or because it is very different from others. It's being carried away as the different schools of thought change.
Does it really have to do with doctrine as much as it does deep down truths? (Really asking this question.)
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/11/2008 5:37:54 PM
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celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Often its a delicate balance between wishy washiness and legalism.
Our spiritual leaders have many pressures upon them. They are never going to please everyone and hopefully they are only there to please God. Unfortunatly the world does get in the way...or can get in the way.
The mortgage. The funding for ministries. The lack of volunteers. Church repairs. Water bills. What direction the church needs to go in. Feeling out the congregation to their needs. Doctrinal decisions. I am sure there must be a ton more.
Sometimes doctrinal differences are not due to wishy washiness.
As I said "can be". I think the bible shows us all answers if we are willing to obey, that is the ticket. I am not saying I always obey, but we are all called to. The verses about the workers are few?? I think that might mean that few are obeying. From what I see, there is always a minority of christians that are actually obeying Gods Word. Im sure it is many's desire, as it is mine to be among those "workers".
God bless, denise:)
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/13/2008 11:59:53 AM
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mattyd00d
Posts: 6
Joined: 7/13/2008
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I find that so called wishy washy christians seem to be in there own little bubble. I find that they hav to be taught something out of there comfort zones.
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/14/2008 8:04:36 AM
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growingseed
Posts: 157
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
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When we as Christians asked (not made) Jesus to come into our lives, did you know that you would be under new management? You have now become the cry baby employee because the Lord is changing you and remodeling who you are inside your heart. Regeneration is just that action to be remodeled, into his image, so because we as Christians want the Lord's will in our lives we forget that his will is changing us into him. I'm learning to turn away from my desires to his, and i mean learning isn't over nite, but is willing to move in a new direction. We are human fleshlights to shine his glory through us to others. That is what we choose when we asked him into our lives.
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/14/2008 8:44:37 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1876
Status: offline
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WW irritates the fool out of me. In theses threads, I see it manifested like a disease. Good grief, take a stand for something and you might as well put on a big target, because people will come out of the woodwork to take fire at you. All because you stand for something they don't. Basically, because you stand period. WW takes on the clothing of the world. Everything is ok when your dressed to look like the world. How will anyone know we are set apart if we look and act like the world. The world is ww, it changes to make everyone ok, to make everyone feel good about things. The world removes conviction. WW says your ok and I'm ok. WW says that you are a pharisee because the standards you hold are too rigid, they are hard and because people don't want to give up themselves. WW means that people don't know what it means to die to self and pick up His cross daily.
I could go on and on, but I'll end my rant now-frustration over!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/15/2008 10:31:16 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 650
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
WW irritates the fool out of me. In theses threads, I see it manifested like a disease. Good grief, take a stand for something and you might as well put on a big target, because people will come out of the woodwork to take fire at you. All because you stand for something they don't. Basically, because you stand period. WW takes on the clothing of the world. Everything is ok when your dressed to look like the world. How will anyone know we are set apart if we look and act like the world. The world is ww, it changes to make everyone ok, to make everyone feel good about things. The world removes conviction. WW says your ok and I'm ok. WW says that you are a pharisee because the standards you hold are too rigid, they are hard and because people don't want to give up themselves. WW means that people don't know what it means to die to self and pick up His cross daily.
I could go on and on, but I'll end my rant now-frustration over!
AMEN, SISTA' FRIEND!
This reminded me... I used to have a sign above my desk that simply read "abnormal." (no comments from the peanut gallary... SonInMe1 ) When people asked my why it gave my the opportunity to witness. I would rather consider myself abnormal, since the word normal means, "to conform to the worlds standards."
(BTW... DD... we're camping at the beach (southern coast of OR) and yes, God is here! )
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/15/2008 11:09:57 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1876
Status: offline
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I hope you are having an awesome, spirit filled time! I can't wait to go again the first week of August!!!! I thought you seemed a little scarce around these threads lately!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/16/2008 7:50:19 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
(no comments from the peanut gallary... SonInMe1 )
Muhahahahaha!
The thing about people coming agaist others who make a stand...its very possible its just a contrary nature more than someone not wishing to make any stand. Often when I comment, I do so just to offer an opinion not stated yet.
There have been..I would guess...a few thousand people who I have met over the years. I doubt any would say I was normal. Being normal..is overrated.
The only bad thing about being abnormal..is that yer closer to being like me.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... - 7/20/2008 11:01:30 PM
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pstrdebi
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