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What would you do? - 6/25/2008 1:24:49 PM
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HenriettasCat
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My children are not in thier teens and so I have not faced this personally. I was visiting with my sister in law (not Christian and facing a lot of difficult things at the moment)and listening to her current experiences it made me wonder what I would do in similar circumstances.
My neice is 15 and like most teenagers going out a lot with her friends. She comes accross as a nice young lady but she is going through "typical teenage behaviour" and resents SIL who neice feels is overprotective - this leads to a lot of sullen behaviour and, I think total out and out disrespect. A lot of the time SIL says she just has to trust she is where she says she is. SIL says she feels that nieces attitude is just part of being a teen and she just hope that when the time comes and she is faced with a compromising situation (drugs, sex etc) that neice will do the right thing ie choose to be a good girl.
There is a school trip to France coming up - it will be for two weeks. Niece was grumping with SIL because she wouldn't let her camp in the garden of a friend with no adult supervision. Nieces arguement with SIL was 'Well you are letting me go all the way to France on our school trip"(imagine angry, ugly, stroppy attitude). SIL reasoned "that is because you will be going with the school and there are teachers to supervise". Niece retorts " you don't think THEY are going to STOP us from doing what WE want to do, do you?".
I just listened to my dear SIL and felt in no place to judge or give advice since I am not a parent of a teen. I just felt the pain of a mother who feels she is losing her daughter - Talking with DH afterwards however, we both agreed that if our children ever said such a thing it would be a sure grounding from any such school trip - I mean she basically showed her mother no respect and flaunted the fact that she was going to do exactly as she pleases! On the other hand I do seem to get the vibe from so many parents of teens that once your child reaches the teenage years there is not a lot you can do.
So, having mulled this over for a few weeks I just wondered what the views of other parents of teenagers on this forum are. Or perhaps you have some encouraging examples of how effective discipline has worked.
I'll be taking notes for future reference!
< Message edited by HenriettasCat -- 6/25/2008 1:32:25 PM >
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RE: What would you do? - 6/25/2008 1:39:06 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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If my child implied that they would misbehave on a school trip...they would not be taking the trip.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 12:59:34 AM
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garsyt
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I have a 14 year old that is contemplating a trip to Germany in the next few years also with a school group - But IF he even HINTS at an attitude that might suggest any sort of misbehavior on said trip OR if he should show ANY hint of disrespect toward his parents or most any adult he has contact with he would most certainly NOT be going on the trip.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 1:09:13 AM
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PatricksPeaches
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First, I am not a mother of a teen either but I will definitely be "checking up" on my dd when she becomes a teen. She may get embarrassed by this but I think it is a way of preventing things. If my dd knows that I may check up on her, she may be less likely to do the wrong things, "just in case". I believe in a pro-active approach to parenting. Know what they are doing at all times! Know their friends and their friends' parents. Don't be afraid to call them either! I do not believe that we can just sit and hope our children will do the right thing.
After this teens comments, I would not let her go to France. Her words are pretty much admitting that she is not doing exactly what she says she is. I would be worried. If you don't want her to do questionable things, don't give her the opportunity!!!!!!
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 9:55:29 AM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 866
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
On the other hand I do seem to get the vibe from so many parents of teens that once your child reaches the teenage years there is not a lot you can do.
Not true, there are always things you can do. Parenting a teen is in some ways more work that with an infant. There are concerns about their activities and their choice in friends. You have to step back and allow them to grow while at the same time be aware of what they are involved in. Much of parenting teens is direction and prevention.
In the case of your niece, she shouldn't be going to France or anywhere else far away from home.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 10:32:02 AM
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daisies4u
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Parenting a teenager begins when they are born!!!!
How you discipline them, how you talk to them, what you expect from them...the list goes on and on. How you handle those things when they are little has an effect on what type of teenagers they become. I can say with assurance that my teenagers (I have 2) would NEVER speak to me that way, because they have been taught since they were little that that was not acceptable behaviour. Neither one has ever raised their voice to me. Now I am not saying they are perfect. They have, on occasion, gotten a little snippy, but I very quickly nipped that. Most teenagers will push the limits as much as they are allowed. The point is don't allow it. And start BEFORE they are teenagers. You can't just wake up on day and decide...this is going to be the rule. It doesn't work that way. The rules have to be established early and abided by before they get to the age that they want to push them.
My kids don't go places that I don't know where they are. They report in. They know this is what is expected and they do it. Otherwise they don't get to go. This is not unfair. It is for their protection as much as it is my peace of mind. If either of my children so mush as implied that they would not be behaving on a school trip, they would not be going. But the fact is that school trips are usually not very well chaperoned anyway and what your niece said is true. The question is - can your SIL trust your niece? OR should she after that remark combined with the attitude?
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 10:46:06 AM
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SteveSund
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I guess I would want to know what led up to this situation and I doubt I would decide not to let her go based on one conversation. Teens (and the rest of us) occasionally say things out of anger. I am not saying that is ok, but to assume that she will misbehave based just on that statement is naive. Having been on and supervised these kinds of trips, it just isn't an accurate predictor of who will misbehave.
quote:
Parenting a teenager begins when they are born!!!!
This is true. Hopefully, they will undertsand they have appropriate limits by the time they are teens.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 11:31:54 AM
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IonMoon
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I would also not make a huge decision like that based on one conversation.
Something I know happens with my ds a lot (or did when he was younger (he's 19 now)) was that he would say something in anger or spur of the moment and then later, we would discuss it when we were both calm. Teens do not have full use of logic... so sometimes they have to think something through before it makes sense. They have a tendency to see everything very black and white. It is easy for us as adults to see the difference between going on a supervised trip and sleeping out- we understand that just because one situation is okay does not mean that every similar situation is...
Teens will often say things just to get a reaction, too.
If I had been the mom in the OP, I would have completely ignored the statements and attitude, hopefully saying something that would diffuse the situation, but completely refusing to get dragged into an argument. Then later, I would bring it up, explaining the differences and why each decision had been made. Also, I would address the fact that when she makes such statements it is hard for me to trust her.
Another thing I do is really try to listen to my kids and their ideas. Teens can be really smart (when they aren't being stupid!) and I have found allowing my kids to have input in decisions within the family has helped them feel important and less rebellious AND has helped us as a family come up with a lot of great ideas that I or dh wouldn't have come up with on our own.
I think the important thing with teens is to be thoughtful about decisions, to respectfully accept their input, but to be firm and consistent about your decisions once they are made. Being either too strict or too lenient is what will hurt you- but good luck striking that balance!
Tara P
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 11:39:26 AM
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pbaribeault
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It's surprising that nobody seems to have noticed that what the teen said (problem attitude aside) is completely true. No amount of supervision is going to prevent a determined teen from intentionally doing something wrong.
I can see why the absolute illogic of these 2 parenting decisions would drive a teenager batty.
When them mom gave permission to go on the France trip, the daughter thought she said, "I believe you are the kind of young woman who is essentially reasonable and inclined towards making good choices. I think you can manage yourself among your peers, even if your peers are determined to do wrong." It would have been nice to hear that her mom trusts in her character.
When the mom refused permission for the garden sleep over, she said, "I believe that you are the kind of young woman, who is likely to be promiscuous, given any opportunity of darkness and lack of surveillance." Essentially, she does not trust in her daughter's character.
When the daughter found out that there really was no original character-trust implied by the France trip, but rather that her mom was trusting in the dubious capacity of the trip's chaperons -- REALLY! Anybody would be deeply hurt by that. It's a relationship problem more than a practical permission situation.
The girl did not imply that she would misbehave on the trip, she merely indicated that anybody who wanted to could. A fact that, if the mom had not considered in the first place, she probably should be thinking about now. Any teen that is reasonably expected to misbehave on a sleepover should be also expected to misbehave in France.
The mom needs to get a reasonable grasp on her daughter's character and desires, her responsibility, ethical standards etc. If these things are sufficient for overnight trust, then trust her. If not, not. (Sounds like not.)
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 6:23:47 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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I would tell her that she has a good point. We {father and I} will start discussion whether or not we letting her go to France is inconsistant our parenting goals and decisions. If it is then it will be on the table to either come up with a consistent solution, or to cancel it altogether.
My eldest will be 13 in a couple of months and would not have pulled that attitude because he would know that he would jeopardizing the trip to Fance.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 8:50:04 PM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
My children are not in thier teens and so I have not faced this personally. I was visiting with my sister in law (not Christian and facing a lot of difficult things at the moment)and listening to her current experiences it made me wonder what I would do in similar circumstances.
My neice is 15 and like most teenagers going out a lot with her friends. She comes accross as a nice young lady but she is going through "typical teenage behaviour" and resents SIL who neice feels is overprotective - this leads to a lot of sullen behaviour and, I think total out and out disrespect. A lot of the time SIL says she just has to trust she is where she says she is. SIL says she feels that nieces attitude is just part of being a teen and she just hope that when the time comes and she is faced with a compromising situation (drugs, sex etc) that neice will do the right thing ie choose to be a good girl.
There is a school trip to France coming up - it will be for two weeks. Niece was grumping with SIL because she wouldn't let her camp in the garden of a friend with no adult supervision. Nieces arguement with SIL was 'Well you are letting me go all the way to France on our school trip"(imagine angry, ugly, stroppy attitude). SIL reasoned "that is because you will be going with the school and there are teachers to supervise". Niece retorts " you don't think THEY are going to STOP us from doing what WE want to do, do you?".
I just listened to my dear SIL and felt in no place to judge or give advice since I am not a parent of a teen. I just felt the pain of a mother who feels she is losing her daughter - Talking with DH afterwards however, we both agreed that if our children ever said such a thing it would be a sure grounding from any such school trip - I mean she basically showed her mother no respect and flaunted the fact that she was going to do exactly as she pleases! On the other hand I do seem to get the vibe from so many parents of teens that once your child reaches the teenage years there is not a lot you can do.
So, having mulled this over for a few weeks I just wondered what the views of other parents of teenagers on this forum are. Or perhaps you have some encouraging examples of how effective discipline has worked.
I'll be taking notes for future reference!
(emphasis mine)
It's hard to give any advice about this, because there are so many parents who have bought into the belief that they should abdicate so much of their authority to the school and to their children not to mention teachers at school basically having their authority undercut. It seems that many adults who deal with teens feel very helpless, and get into a passive/aggressive cycle as a result. At the end of the day, it seems that kids pretty much run things at high school. So sadly, I think that statement I highlighted is probably fairly accurate. Now if a kid is in elementary and maybe if they're in middle school, there is more supervision, because hey, they're little. But from my own experience with high school sports for the last six years (and also factoring in the experiences of many firends of mine who have kids in other high schools in other states), it doesn't shock me a bit that this niece would make that statement. Frankly, I almost don't blame the teachers if they repond that way. The ones who seem to try to hold a standard are usually not supported by the parents much less the school. So why should they hold a kid to a boundary? Well, most don't unless it can cause a lawsuit or a media event.
All of this is to say, that if I it were my kid, I probably would shut them down on taking the trip. However, with someone who may have abdicated more of their authority than I have, it might be tougher to do this. I don't know where your SIL stands on that issue, but that's my thought on the subject.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 9:37:08 PM
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Calea37
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I can't give an answer because I think a 15 year old girl is too young to take a trip so far away for so long with no parent. No way!
I agree with this post, though!
quote:
ORIGINAL: daisies4u
Parenting a teenager begins when they are born!!!!
How you discipline them, how you talk to them, what you expect from them...the list goes on and on. How you handle those things when they are little has an effect on what type of teenagers they become. I can say with assurance that my teenagers (I have 2) would NEVER speak to me that way, because they have been taught since they were little that that was not acceptable behaviour. Neither one has ever raised their voice to me. Now I am not saying they are perfect. They have, on occasion, gotten a little snippy, but I very quickly nipped that. Most teenagers will push the limits as much as they are allowed. The point is don't allow it. And start BEFORE they are teenagers. You can't just wake up on day and decide...this is going to be the rule. It doesn't work that way. The rules have to be established early and abided by before they get to the age that they want to push them.
My kids don't go places that I don't know where they are. They report in. They know this is what is expected and they do it. Otherwise they don't get to go. This is not unfair. It is for their protection as much as it is my peace of mind. If either of my children so mush as implied that they would not be behaving on a school trip, they would not be going. But the fact is that school trips are usually not very well chaperoned anyway and what your niece said is true. The question is - can your SIL trust your niece? OR should she after that remark combined with the attitude?
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Isaiah 2:22 Stop regarding man, whose breath life is in his nostrils; for why should he be esteemed?
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 9:47:22 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 767
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
My children are not in thier teens and so I have not faced this personally. I was visiting with my sister in law (not Christian and facing a lot of difficult things at the moment)and listening to her current experiences it made me wonder what I would do in similar circumstances.
My neice is 15 and like most teenagers going out a lot with her friends. She comes accross as a nice young lady but she is going through "typical teenage behaviour" and resents SIL who neice feels is overprotective - this leads to a lot of sullen behaviour and, I think total out and out disrespect. A lot of the time SIL says she just has to trust she is where she says she is. SIL says she feels that nieces attitude is just part of being a teen and she just hope that when the time comes and she is faced with a compromising situation (drugs, sex etc) that neice will do the right thing ie choose to be a good girl.
There is a school trip to France coming up - it will be for two weeks. Niece was grumping with SIL because she wouldn't let her camp in the garden of a friend with no adult supervision. Nieces arguement with SIL was 'Well you are letting me go all the way to France on our school trip"(imagine angry, ugly, stroppy attitude). SIL reasoned "that is because you will be going with the school and there are teachers to supervise". Niece retorts " you don't think THEY are going to STOP us from doing what WE want to do, do you?".
I just listened to my dear SIL and felt in no place to judge or give advice since I am not a parent of a teen. I just felt the pain of a mother who feels she is losing her daughter - Talking with DH afterwards however, we both agreed that if our children ever said such a thing it would be a sure grounding from any such school trip - I mean she basically showed her mother no respect and flaunted the fact that she was going to do exactly as she pleases! On the other hand I do seem to get the vibe from so many parents of teens that once your child reaches the teenage years there is not a lot you can do.
So, having mulled this over for a few weeks I just wondered what the views of other parents of teenagers on this forum are. Or perhaps you have some encouraging examples of how effective discipline has worked.
I'll be taking notes for future reference!
Most teens going out, typical teenage behavior, nothing we can do??? I hear these things so often and I truly believe these and other trite (not speaking of your comments solely) comments regarding teen behaviors are lies from satan. Our children behave the way they are taught and the way we have raised them to behave. I am truly sorry for the woman the OP is talking about. I do believe it is not too late for their relationship though, but sounds as though both sides need help...Jesus mainly. Lord bless them.
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Red
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RE: What would you do? - 6/26/2008 9:58:08 PM
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sen10tious
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
I'll be taking notes for future reference!
In that case, I recommend that you take your child’s current age and subtract it from today’s date— and that was the time to get started! ~ because you can be sure that twelve years ago there was a "cute & harmless" little three year-old who was testing her chops.
edit to add: quote:
It is for their protection as much as it is my peace of mind. daisies4U
This is an important part of training also; it is not just teaching a child how to act, but includes their having respect for their parent's peace of mind too.
< Message edited by sen10tious -- 6/26/2008 10:14:01 PM >
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RE: What would you do? - 6/27/2008 4:00:07 AM
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HenriettasCat
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Thank you for your feedback. Pbaribeualt - I always love your posts, you have a wonderful ability to make sense of a situation. Red, may I clarify that the 'comments' are those that I hear and do not personally beleive. I think it is easy, when you hear these comments all the time from those around you to start wondering "Is it me, or am I the only person who would be taking some action one way or another here". Its like last weekend my kids went to a party, they had a giant trampoline with no net and about six crazy 5 year old boys with sugar rush bouncing around on it (right next to a concrete step I hasten to add). I quietly informed my sons that they could wait until they got home and bounce on our own trampoline then which has all the proper safety equipment added. None of the other mothers seemed remotely bothered that there was no protection if one of them was pushed or fell.
quote:
This is an important part of training also; it is not just teaching a child how to act, but includes their having respect for their parent's peace of mind too.
This is one of the things that bothers me with my niece. She is constantly rude to her mother and mocks her for being "overprotective". I only see my in-laws once a year but my niece's father ran off with another woman about 3 years ago, - it turned out he had been unfaithful for years. At the time neice was angry and accused mum of not being able to keep a man. SIL has got back together with her husband - but I think a lot of neices anger and rebellion stems from this. I wonder if SIL also feels guilty and therefore does not step in as she might. I also doubt she has much support from her husband. Having a supportive male figure in the home makes the world of difference. I cannot imagine my husband ever allowing one of our children to treat me with such disrespect.
< Message edited by HenriettasCat -- 6/27/2008 4:08:27 AM >
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RE: What would you do? - 6/27/2008 4:18:00 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2542
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quote:
I cannot imagine my husband ever allowing one of our children to treat me with such disrespect.
But the reason that husband does, is because he obviously for years had no respect for the mother herself.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/27/2008 7:00:16 AM
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Sunnymom
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I only have one thing to add- sin is sin, whether it is a 3 yo screaming their head off or a teenager giving attitude. Rebellion is wicked, and should not be tolerated. There is no season of life that changes God's Word and makes sin acceptable, normal, or 'just a phase'. A child who is disrespectful should not have any privileges such as sleepover and European vacations until they get their attitude adjusted. And there is no childhood trauma that excuses rebellion either- it may explain some things going on in the heart, but it doesn't teach the child how to deal with it by catering to their emotions.
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RE: What would you do? - 6/27/2008 10:37:26 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 767
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From: Georgia
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quote:
Red, may I clarify that the 'comments' are those that I hear and do not personally beleive. I think it is easy, when you hear these comments all the time from those around you to start wondering "Is it me, or am I the only person who would be taking some action one way or another here".
Praise God for that...it is not "just you"...but you would be amazed at how many of the people in our immediate circle do honestly believe that teenage rebellion and attitude is inevitable. It really is ridiculous how it is overlooked and allowed as "the norm"
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Red
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RE: What would you do? - 7/2/2008 6:41:29 PM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 866
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From: So. Calif.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
quote:
Red, may I clarify that the 'comments' are those that I hear and do not personally beleive. I think it is easy, when you hear these comments all the time from those around you to start wondering "Is it me, or am I the only person who would be taking some action one way or another here".
Praise God for that...it is not "just you"...but you would be amazed at how many of the people in our immediate circle do honestly believe that teenage rebellion and attitude is inevitable. It really is ridiculous how it is overlooked and allowed as "the norm"
Absolutely right on.
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RE: What would you do? - 7/3/2008 12:52:59 PM
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shadowspring
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I am the parent of two teenagers, and they most certainly do not get to go where they please with whomever they please, and neither do MOST of their friends.
There is a crowd of rowdy, hard-partying teens that do run around pretty much wherever, whenever, with whoever. But they are not "most" teens.
I don't think it inconsistent to offer a cross-cultural educational opportunity that is well chaperoned while denying a local backyard sleepover that is completely unsupervised. That does not sound inconsistent at all!! It is not the teens trustworthiness at issue (this teen sounds completely untrustworthy to me) but the trustworthiness of the adults supervising, or lack thereof that is at issue.
My son's best friends parents are non-Christians and their kids go to public school, and they are way stricter than I am! They need to know at all times where their teens are, they are not allowed to ever turn off their cell phones, not answering a cell phone no matter what your reason results instant grounding (they do NOT leave their phones on vibrate more than once!). They will ask to speak to parents or instructors to make sure teens are where they are supposed to be. They keep in touch with all teachers by e-mail so they know what's going on at the high school as much as any parent can know. The 16 yr old has to be in at 9:30 on non-school nights, 8:30 on school nights just like his younger siblings. There are special occasions that get special permission, but otherwise that's just the way it is.
I commend them for taking their parenting seriously.
Many parents (especially ones going through painful personal times like a failing marriage) just don't have the stamina or emotional reserves to be so diligent. You will not be popular at times. At times you will be hated. But that's the way it has to be sometimes.
_____________________________
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RE: What would you do? - 7/3/2008 8:25:07 PM
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pbaribeault
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I would never trust any adult to be able to stop a determined teen from wrongdoing.
An excellent chaperon, I might expect to be a deterrent to not-so-determined wrongdoers, and perhaps have a 50/50 chance of catching or discovering after-the-fact (not preventing) those who really want to get away with something. And most of the chaperons are likely to be average, not excellent.
Any teen who can't be trusted to do mostly good of their own will... they should never be unsupervised, whether on a field trip or a social occasion. Strict parenting can be a mild deterrent to bad choices, but if they really want to do wrong all the measures in the world just make for more creative teens. Good character is the only way to make sure they don't hurt themselves.
Chaperons are not going to stop them from doing what they want. As a parent it's important to focus on changing what they want to do, not preventing them from doing the wrong they apparently want to.
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RE: What would you do? - 7/3/2008 9:13:10 PM
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loveineffable
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So, having mulled this over for a few weeks I just wondered what the views of other parents of teenagers on this forum are. Or perhaps you have some encouraging examples of how effective discipline has worked.
I'll be taking notes for future reference!
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I will tell you from my perspective.
We have two ears and one mouth. learn from others experiences, great. But ultimately listen to God in you, your personal savior, he knows all, and by us listening to him we can prevent a lot of heart-ache.
For God knows each and everyone of us like a book, and chooses not to ever shut us up, giving us free will.
Now for my story brief, I was 14, my sister at 18 died on an overdose. MY parents believers, did all they could in, love and discipline, but she had free choice, not anyone elses fault, she made her own choices, that led to her early death.
My foster daughter, got her at 15, did all I could do, she had strictness from mom, along with compassion. She had understanding from me. She has accepted Christ. But she still has made her own choices as well.
And they are good and bad ones just like the rest of us out here in the world, growing in grace
My best advice gain your childrens' trust. If they trust not to be beaten up they will tell you everything, and thus learn what to do. Sometimes they will make bad choices for a long time, but as long as you do not beat them up, (spiritually or physically) they will come back to you, and you will accept them, then and then only will they change. by you accepting them not the behavior. It is when one gets mad over anothers behavior that one feels condemned
This is what my mom learned after my sister, to trust God, listen to him for what to do with me and she here on earth was , before she died, my best friend. Never once acting appauled at any thing I told her. Which is what led me to Christ, for she exhibited herself as christ has , and does exhibit himself to the whole world, being in love with his creation
Ineffable love
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RE: What would you do? - 7/3/2008 10:07:40 PM
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