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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/17/2008 5:01:13 PM
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ConstantReader
Posts: 158
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Agreed, sir.
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Long days and pleasant nights.
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/17/2008 10:10:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
My problem with the death penalty has nothing to do with me not accepting it if it were given to me and I deserved it. I will fully accept the maximum sentence for myself. I don't believe that the maximum penalty must be administered every time. The Bible doesn't either.
Ok... So when should it not, a when should it be? Personally I don't have a issue with mercy taking place, of course prior mercy seem to be defined as having to happen every time for it to be mercy....
quote:
If you were to look at the specific examples of crimes leading to the death penalty in the Bible, I wonder how many you will find that the death penalty was carried out and how many offenders were shown mercy, just on a tally. Anyone know?
First for anyone to think that the bible accounts for every time someone was put to death is plain silly....
John
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/17/2008 10:11:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: draexo
Deuteronomy 21
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
I wonder how many times this command in Deuteronomy was carried out?
How many times did it have to take place to make it valid?
John
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/17/2008 10:12:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I guarantee you won't hear people campaigning for that as heavily as they campaign for death penalty for murderers.
It makes you think whether justice is really their goal, if the maximum sentence is the only just thing. It makes you wonder if those campaigning for death penalty for murderers but not in this situation are really thinking about vengeance.
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
John
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 3:52:21 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
My problem with the death penalty has nothing to do with me not accepting it if it were given to me and I deserved it. I will fully accept the maximum sentence for myself. I don't believe that the maximum penalty must be administered every time. The Bible doesn't either.
Ok... So when should it not, a when should it be? Personally I don't have a issue with mercy taking place, of course prior mercy seem to be defined as having to happen every time for it to be mercy....
quote:
If you were to look at the specific examples of crimes leading to the death penalty in the Bible, I wonder how many you will find that the death penalty was carried out and how many offenders were shown mercy, just on a tally. Anyone know?
First for anyone to think that the bible accounts for every time someone was put to death is plain silly....
John
You seemed to indicate that mercy was inherently unjust. Am I mistaken for inferring that?
I never said the Bible accounted for that, but I trust the Bible in giving fair accounts, so I wouldn't mind knowing, say, the percentage of mercy versus carrying out the sentence.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 3:55:03 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
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From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
No struggle here, sir.
This question is for everyone... if anyone is willing to answer plainly, that is...
If you are a strong advocate of the death penalty for murder, do you work equally as hard to promote the death penalty for kidnapping, perjury, and fortune telling? If not, why not?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 6:24:30 AM
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ConstantReader
Posts: 158
Joined: 1/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I guarantee you won't hear people campaigning for that as heavily as they campaign for death penalty for murderers.
It makes you think whether justice is really their goal, if the maximum sentence is the only just thing. It makes you wonder if those campaigning for death penalty for murderers but not in this situation are really thinking about vengeance.
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
John
Judging by the tenor of your posts, you refuse to differentiate between them yourself.
_____________________________
Long days and pleasant nights.
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 10:03:46 AM
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draexo
Posts: 571
Joined: 1/26/2007
From: Saratoga County, New York
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I guarantee you won't hear people campaigning for that as heavily as they campaign for death penalty for murderers.
It makes you think whether justice is really their goal, if the maximum sentence is the only just thing. It makes you wonder if those campaigning for death penalty for murderers but not in this situation are really thinking about vengeance.
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
John
John
What is your definition of discipline?
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The truth will set you free!
TRUTH
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 12:44:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
You seemed to indicate that mercy was inherently unjust. Am I mistaken for inferring that?
No, I made the point that what you said was mercy... You seem to indicate that mercy must take place and that seem to entail either less or no punishment...
quote:
I never said the Bible accounted for that, but I trust the Bible in giving fair accounts, so I wouldn't mind knowing, say, the percentage of mercy versus carrying out the sentence.
Firs you need to to be clear on what is or isn't a temporal judgment... Was the flood a temporal judgment, or an eternal one... Was Moses putting those who didn't choose God to the sword? Jericho?
John
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 12:46:13 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ConstantReader
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I guarantee you won't hear people campaigning for that as heavily as they campaign for death penalty for murderers.
It makes you think whether justice is really their goal, if the maximum sentence is the only just thing. It makes you wonder if those campaigning for death penalty for murderers but not in this situation are really thinking about vengeance.
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
John
Judging by the tenor of your posts, you refuse to differentiate between them yourself.
Since I have given clear examples of both it would seem you don't have the means to judge...
John
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 3:12:52 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
You seemed to indicate that mercy was inherently unjust. Am I mistaken for inferring that?
No, I made the point that what you said was mercy... You seem to indicate that mercy must take place and that seem to entail either less or no punishment...
quote:
I never said the Bible accounted for that, but I trust the Bible in giving fair accounts, so I wouldn't mind knowing, say, the percentage of mercy versus carrying out the sentence.
Firs you need to to be clear on what is or isn't a temporal judgment... Was the flood a temporal judgment, or an eternal one... Was Moses putting those who didn't choose God to the sword? Jericho?
John
So, to be clear, I'm not mistaken for inferring that? I couldn't tell what "no" referenced above.
We're talking about men delivering the death penalty for certain crimes, are we not? Since when is war lumped in with the judicial system?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 3:14:25 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: ConstantReader
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I guarantee you won't hear people campaigning for that as heavily as they campaign for death penalty for murderers.
It makes you think whether justice is really their goal, if the maximum sentence is the only just thing. It makes you wonder if those campaigning for death penalty for murderers but not in this situation are really thinking about vengeance.
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
John
Judging by the tenor of your posts, you refuse to differentiate between them yourself.
Since I have given clear examples of both it would seem you don't have the means to judge...
John
Perhaps, John, you would reiterate those for us who may have missed them.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/18/2008 10:32:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: ConstantReader
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I guarantee you won't hear people campaigning for that as heavily as they campaign for death penalty for murderers.
It makes you think whether justice is really their goal, if the maximum sentence is the only just thing. It makes you wonder if those campaigning for death penalty for murderers but not in this situation are really thinking about vengeance.
Only in the mind of those who struggle with the difference between justice and vengeance...
John
Judging by the tenor of your posts, you refuse to differentiate between them yourself.
Since I have given clear examples of both it would seem you don't have the means to judge...
John
Perhaps, John, you would reiterate those for us who may have missed them.
Sure...
The state justly putting someone to death for their deeds, justice...
A member of the vitcim's family shooting the person in the court room during the trial, vengeance...
John
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RE: Is death penalty a Christian value? - 7/19/2008 9:51:08 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11525
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
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Please use the time to pray about how you respond to one another.
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