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manichunter -> Conflicting Gospels (7/5/2008 2:42:01 AM)

How do you reconcile four different conclusions in the gospels that have major differences? Why all the contradictions and variations?

Matthew 28
1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.

This one has just two Marys, the only one with guards, an earthquake, one angel who was witnessed coming from heaven and rolling back the stone.


Mark 16
1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3And they said among themselves, "Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?" 4But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away--for it was very large. 5And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed.

This one has both Marys but adds a Salome, no earthquake, the angel was already inside the tomb, the stone was already rolled away, and the guards where missing.


Luke 24
1 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments.

Here we have a group of unknown people, stone rolled away, two angels are present already in the opened tomb, no earthquake or guards present


John 16
1 Now the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him."

Here we have Mary Magdalene going by herself, the stone is rolled back, sees no body in the tomb and runs to go the disciples. She eventually sees angel later that turns out to be Jesus.

Why are all these different accounts of the resurrection?



Ezra -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/5/2008 2:49:21 AM)

quote:

Why are all these different accounts of the resurrection?


So that you will take the time and trouble to harmonize them chronologically, instead of looking for "contradictions".

The fundamental premise with which we approach the Bible is that is has no contradictions.

However, it is not a text-book on systematic theology either. God demands that we labor in the Word and in doctrine, and become "workmen" who "rightly divide the Word of Truth".

I trust other posters will refrain from giving you what you should dig out for yourself.



manichunter -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/5/2008 3:03:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

Why are all these different accounts of the resurrection?


So that you will take the time and trouble to harmonize them chronologically, instead of looking for "contradictions".

The fundamental premise with which we approach the Bible is that is has no contradictions.

However, it is not a text-book on systematic theology either. God demands that we labor in the Word and in doctrine, and become "workmen" who "rightly divide the Word of Truth".

I trust other posters will refrain from giving you what you should dig out for yourself.



You are making a hugh error yourself. I was asked this question and thought others where more mature in knowledge and character to answer it. My answer was apparently not adequate enough. I said that they are different accounts of the same events from various prospectives. I think you assumed me to have bad motives. Why do some saints on this site often default to carnality in reaction to others in a negative and condemning manner. I hope someone else can help me......... Not to insult you back, but I do not want confusion...... thanks



BibleL7 -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/5/2008 6:07:30 AM)

The main reason you find differences in each of the Gospel accounts is because 4 different people wrote the accounts. Just as if you asked 4 different people about an accident you will find some agree with others accounts totally yet others may have seen it differently they see things through their own eyes. Take the factor that all say that women went to the tomb first, Angels were there, and the stone was rolled away. You see just because only one thought the earthquake and guards were important details does not mean the others did not know of it or are saying it did not happen is more a factor the others thought there were other things more important to express. Also you will see that in the account of Mary Magdalene being alone that would seem to be a separate time as she went back and told disciples and as John and Peter went out to see then after that was the Mary Mag incident, at least that is how many have explained it.

But if you think about it, it is not necessarily contradiction when people see same incident differently. I will give you an example that may help explain perspectives.

I am treasurer which causes me to go to the bank to make deposits and occasionally ask questions. (Only one bank in town) I had an incident where I felt one of the tellers was very much against churches and was taking it out on me. No big deal but I asked my pastor as he also uses the bank and is known as a pastor there and the pastor was not sure who I was talking about. He recalled this teller as being one who is nice but shows too much cleavage. I had never noticed her chest area to realize she did wear low cut blouses most of the time I always noticed her thin waistline and cute eyes and her hiding some tattoos with light sweater. See he never noticed her thinness or eyes and I never noticed her chest area. But we were both talking about the same woman. Oh only about 5 or 6 people working at this bank but to hear each of us describe her you would not be sure we were talking about the same person unless you had seen both parts in this person. And there was one other person in on discussion and she just said she thought we were both talking about the same person. And she is also a customer of the bank and knows the girl very well. Also if I recount a visit to that bank to anyone if this teller is there I will absolutely bring up her and know where she was or if she had waited on me yet even though there are always at least 3 employees present I would not necessarily been able to say who else was there at the time as I will usually focus on her somebody else would not even notice her.

You see this is what makes it all the more credible that there were indeed 4 different writers of the Gospels because we get different nuances in each authors accounts. This is also why you will find one person saying there was one demon possess man and another will say there were two the one person stood out more to the one person and he did not notice the second not a contradiction necessarily as one author being more observant than another on certain details. So not necessarily conflicting.



BibleL7 -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/5/2008 6:22:22 AM)

BTW on earthquakes I can say when I lived in So Cali unless it was 5.0 or higher most of the time I did not feel earthquakes and some would make big deal out of 2.3 so the factor that only one mentioned it is not meaning it did not occur the others were probably focused on something else or were not up at the time to feel the quake. Yes there are people who can sleep through earthquakes except when it is 7.0.



IBorn2Worship -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/5/2008 2:12:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BibleL7

BTW on earthquakes I can say when I lived in So Cali unless it was 5.0 or higher most of the time I did not feel earthquakes and some would make big deal out of 2.3 so the factor that only one mentioned it is not meaning it did not occur the others were probably focused on something else or were not up at the time to feel the quake. Yes there are people who can sleep through earthquakes except when it is 7.0.


I slept through a pretty big one down there when I lived down there[;)] Don't even remember it. Does not mean it did not happen.



Bluethread -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/6/2008 1:22:06 AM)

Matthew presents the event as experienced by the guards. This probably happened before the women arrived and the reference to the Mary's could be just for a time reference. Matthew may have had knowledge of the roman account the was not available to Mark.

Mark is thought to be the first account written and some think it might have been used by the others as reference material. This might be why there is a more complete list of names. The "man" was outside the tomb and appears to have been seen before anyone inspects the tomb.

Luke focuses on the revelation in the tomb. This could be the last thing that happened after Mary Magdalene, being driven by emotion, looked in the tomb and ran to tell the disciples. The other, more patient, women are addressed by the angels.

John is focusing on the event from the prospective of Mary Magdalene and himself. Mary takes a quick look, runs to tell the disciples, is questioned as being a silly woman, and drags the disciples to the tomb to prove it. Then, upset, exhausted, and indignent after being humiliated, she finally stops and breaks down, at which point the angels comfort her.

This is why eye witnesses are not considered best evidence in modern courts and why the Scriptures require two or more witnesses. Everyone sees things from the prespective that matters most to them. They also tend to leave out details that are not important to them.



stolar1962 -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/8/2008 1:46:12 AM)

i have to agree wtih Ezra on this one. Manichunter wanted to know why there are contraditions in the record of this event.

The others also provided excellent answers. You have 4 different people writing and account of the same thing, but focusing on different details. Instead of looking at the contradictions. you need to be looking at them and harmonizing them.

One way is chronological. You can also look at it from a biological perspective. Do the 4 accounts only refer to 2 Marys? The gospels record 5 or six different Marys which were associated with Christ's ministry. Why couldn't several women, alone or in a group planned to do the same thing, which was anoint the body. one group found the guards, the next, found no guards. etc. What mattered to all was the empty tomb.

You run into the same issue with the accounts of the crucifixion. Some of them indicate that they only had time to bury the body, while others gave it a proper burial. It starts to make sense when you realize there were 2 sabbaths that week, one for the Passover and the regular one. Again the writers recorded from their own perspectives.



rcjones -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/13/2008 11:22:14 AM)

quote:

heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.


Others have addressed the issue of selective observation.

There may also be a reason to have selective communication.

When I tell how I was saved, I may tell how I was in a cult and God saved me from it.
I may tell how I was under legalism and God saved me from it.
I may tell how I was a drunken sinner and God saved me out of.
And sometimes I may tell how I was under legalism in a cult as a drunken sinner and God saved me from it.
All four testimonies are true, but I select the details depending upon whom I am telling and why.

Each of the four authors has a reason for telling his story. One of the ways to read the Gospels is to see if you can discern the reason for the telling.
Another is to see if you can discern the "voices" of God as he speaks as the prophet, priest, king and judge.

You might try to see if you can identify which gospel represents which voice.



sunofone -> RE: Conflicting Gospels (7/13/2008 9:24:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

How do you reconcile four different conclusions in the gospels that have major differences? Why all the contradictions and variations?

Matthew 28
1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.

This one has just two Marys, the only one with guards, an earthquake, one angel who was witnessed coming from heaven and rolling back the stone.


Mark 16
1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3And they said among themselves, "Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?" 4But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away--for it was very large. 5And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed.

This one has both Marys but adds a Salome, no earthquake, the angel was already inside the tomb, the stone was already rolled away, and the guards where missing.


Luke 24
1 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments.

Here we have a group of unknown people, stone rolled away, two angels are present already in the opened tomb, no earthquake or guards present


John 16
1 Now the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him."

Here we have Mary Magdalene going by herself, the stone is rolled back, sees no body in the tomb and runs to go the disciples. She eventually sees angel later that turns out to be Jesus.

Why are all these different accounts of the resurrection?

There is a reason that goes beyond any of the responses given here.I don't believe you were questioning the bible in a negative light.I think you should be rewarded for your honest inquiry of scripture.

There is nothing in the bible that is at all without purpose.The four gospels represent different stages of relationship to Jesus and their level of revelation.It actually goes much deeper than that,but that's about as much as I would feel comfortable sharing right now.

There are many more differences than were mentioned by you here and to really get into it's significance is best done in a private study as an open forum is limited in what can be discussed.

You are welcome to pm me and I can share some things with you on this subject that I'm sure you will find amazing and will be a blessing to you if you like.



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