|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 3:56:26 PM
|
|
|
Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1419
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: robto
(Evolution doesn't require that any particular ancestor can be found as a fossil.) In the 1980s (IIRC) paleontologists began finding such fossils. Prediction confirmed.)
Evolution makes no predictions in terms of what we should find. It predicts nothing. If we found such alleged transitionals, that's fine with evolution. If we didn't, that's also fine. Either way, evolution predicts nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 4:29:13 PM
|
|
|
essentialsaltes
Posts: 1012
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: robto
(Evolution doesn't require that any particular ancestor can be found as a fossil.) In the 1980s (IIRC) paleontologists began finding such fossils. Prediction confirmed.)
Evolution makes no predictions in terms of what we should find. It predicts nothing. If we found such alleged transitionals, that's fine with evolution. If we didn't, that's also fine. Either way, evolution predicts nothing.
It's not about whether it's 'fine' or not.
The important thing is that the ones we do find have the right properties in terms of anatomical features and age to be transitional forms. Many particular examples were indeed predicted: "It's one of those things you can point to and say, 'I told you this would exist,' and there it is." Indeed, the researchers were explicitly looking for just such a transition, and evolution and palaeontology told them where to look. And they succeeded - a successful prediction.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 4:29:32 PM
|
|
|
Method
Posts: 1134
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
Evolution makes no predictions in terms of what we should find.
Evolution predicts what types of animals have lived in the past. Finding fossils of these animals confirms the predictions. The theory also predicts the type of animals we should not find, and those animals have not been found. The theory predicts we should find a combination of mammalian and reptillian features but not a mix of avian and mammalian features. That is what we find.
quote:
It predicts nothing.
Are you knowingly passing on this falsehood?
quote:
If we found such alleged transitionals, that's fine with evolution. If we didn't, that's also fine. Either way, evolution predicts nothing.
It still predicts that these animals lived. Finding fossils of these animals confirms the prediction, does it not?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 5:00:52 PM
|
|
|
Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1419
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
Evolution predicts what types of animals have lived in the past.
That's not a prediction. Predictions concern the future. Hence the prefix "pre."
quote:
Are you knowingly passing on this falsehood?
It's not a falsehood.
quote:
It still predicts that these animals lived. Finding fossils of these animals confirms the prediction, does it not?
Again, that's not a prediction.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 5:04:58 PM
|
|
|
Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1419
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
The important thing is that the ones we do find have the right properties in terms of anatomical features and age to be transitional forms.
No, what we do find are alleged to have the "right" properties. There are no "right" or "wrong" properties. For example, some evolutionists have claimed that dinosaurs had feathers and others claim they don't. If they find a dinosaur fossil with feathers, those that are right get remembered and those that are wrong get forgotten. Then evolutionists claim, "see, this fossil has the 'right' properties for evolution" but even if no such fossil was found, then those who claimed that dinosaurs did not have feathers would be remembered and those who said they did would be forgotten and evolutionists would still claim the same thing.
Post 65
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 5:27:44 PM
|
|
|
ianz
Posts: 330
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
Evolution predicts what types of animals have lived in the past.
That's not a prediction. Predictions concern the future. Hence the prefix "pre."
Pre- as in before knowledge:
predict
• verb state that (a specified event) will happen in the future.
For example: UCD predicts that such and such transitional species will be identified in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Accepting myths - 7/15/2008 6:11:33 PM
|
|
|
Method
Posts: 1134
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
No, what we do find are alleged to have the "right" properties. There are no "right" or "wrong" properties. For example, some evolutionists have claimed that dinosaurs had feathers and others claim they don't. If they find a dinosaur fossil with feathers, those that are right get remembered and those that are wrong get forgotten. Then evolutionists claim, "see, this fossil has the 'right' properties for evolution" but even if no such fossil was found, then those who claimed that dinosaurs did not have feathers would be remembered and those who said they did would be forgotten and evolutionists would still claim the same thing.
Birds are dinosaurs (theropod dinosaurs to be exact) so the argument is moot.
It is always unknown which derived feature will evolve first in a lineage. However, the mixture of characteristics must fit the lineage. For example, it was unknown whether or not avian morphology would evolve before feathers. What was found in the fossil record was that feathers evolved before avian specific morphology. What was not disputed was that a transitional must have a mixture of avian and basal dinosaur features.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
