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Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 2:26:08 PM
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Beth67
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Can someone please help me with the following passage:
Genesis 4:13-17 (King James Version)
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Where did the people come from???
"every one that findeth me shall slay me."
Obviously there were other people if "the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
And where did Cain's wife come from???
"And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived"
Up until this point (at least as far as I can see), I see reference only to Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel. Some have told me that Cain's wife came from Adam and Eve (therefore, his sister). I know Adam and Eve went on to have other children, but I have a hard time accepting that Cain's wife was his sister based on how Genesis is written...
After Abel is killed and Cain is driven out, Genesis 4:25 says:
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Then a few verses later, in Genesis 5:4, it says:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters.
Did Adam and Eve have daughters before having Seth? And if so, were all the people that the LORD had to protect Cain from his brothers and sisters?
Is anyone as confused as I am? Any thoughts?
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 2:43:23 PM
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Machaira
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quote:
Genesis: Where did all the people come from?
Genesis 5:4 tells us that during Adam's long lifetime of 930 years (800 after the birth of Seth) he had other sons and daughters. Since he and Eve had been ordered to produce a large family in order to populate the Earth (Gen. 1:29) it is reasonable to assume that they continued to have children for a long period of time, under the then ideal conditions for longevity.
Without question it was necessary for the generation following Adam to pair-off brothers and sisters to serve as parents for the ensuing generation; otherwise the Human race would have died off. It was not until the course of subsequent generations that it became possible for cousins and more distant relations to choose each other as marriage partners. There seems to be no definite word about the incestuous character of brother and sister marriage until the time of Abraham, who emphasized to the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister, thus implying to the Egyptians that if she was his sister, she could not be his wife.
In Leviticus 20:17 the actual sanctions against brother-sister marriage is spelled out. But as for Cain and Seth and all the other sons of Adam who married, they must have chosen their sisters as wives. - Gleason L. Archer, Encyclopedia Of Bible Difficulties
< Message edited by Machaira -- 7/5/2008 2:59:42 PM >
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 2:55:44 PM
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LCannon
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Probably the 'regular' way. There was lots o' 'begatin' goin' on!
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play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 7:03:53 PM
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McFatty
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Does the Bible say that God didn't create anyone else in the manner He created Adam and Eve? Not necessarily what happened, but might this be a possibility?
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 7:44:22 PM
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Machaira
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Does the Bible say that God didn't create anyone else in the manner He created Adam and Eve? Not necessarily what happened, but might this be a possibility?
The following verse would seem to preclude the idea of a separate 'special creation' of other men and women --
Act 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place . . .
_____________________________
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake . . . Php 1:29
Check out my blog @ www.thomasboston.wordpress.com
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 7:46:24 PM
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McFatty
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Could not that one man be Noah?
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 7:58:29 PM
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Machaira
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Could not that one man be Noah?
I think it's highly unlikely that Paul meant Noah, especially when you begin to factor in the problem of 'sin and salvation.' Paul tells us that "in Adam, all die." This would imply that a separate special creation of humans would not affected by the problem of sin and death. Where does the Bible ever speak of such Humans? If we surmise that they were wiped out in the flood, then the question becomes; Did God wipe out these sinless Humans along with the sinful ones? Why would He do that? The theory as a whole just opens up a big ol' can of worms.
_____________________________
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake . . . Php 1:29
Check out my blog @ www.thomasboston.wordpress.com
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 8:12:04 PM
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McFatty
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Fair enough. Just trying to look at all the options. The popular opinion sometimes isn't the right one. In this case it seems to be.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/5/2008 9:20:01 PM
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evry1needsgod
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quote:
Fair enough. Just trying to look at all the options. The popular opinion sometimes isn't the right one. In this case it seems to be.
I admire and applaud your humility and all-round thirst for Godly knowledge McFatty. God bless you!
In Christ,
ZG
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/6/2008 12:43:29 AM
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Bluethread
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Since Adonai had commanded Adam and Havah(Eve) to be fruitful and multiply, they probably told Cain of this and that is why he feared everyone who finds him would seek to slay him, even if there were only four of them at the time. If everyone is a close relative, this would even be more likely. We also do not know how much time passed between vs.16 and vs.17.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/8/2008 12:02:38 PM
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cherryfly
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On the thought of Cain marrying his sister/relative, it would have been no problem at all back then as there was likely none of the generative diseases and such from intermarrying. The more time goes on, the more diseases there are, but at the very beginning...it would have started out almost perfect, wouldn't it? Just a thought.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/9/2008 6:33:49 PM
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cherryfly
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AIG is an excellent site to look for these type questions/answers
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 5:23:08 AM
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BibleL7
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One thing to look at in Bible is that Seth would appear to have been born shortly after the death of Abel. We know from Scripture that Adam lived 130 years before Seth was born. Good possibility that in that time which could be more than 100 years Adam and Eve may have had many children. Note that afterwards in genealogies Cain is never mentioned. The account in Genesis is not meant to be an extended history of all that happened only what God felt was needed to show what was leading up to our Savior. So is no problem with daughters being born shortly after Cain remember not many women are mentioned in genealogies.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 12:12:09 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cherryfly
AIG is an excellent site to look for these type questions/answers
Only if you are of the Young Earth Creationist pursuasion. Otherwise it is full of unscientific drivel.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 12:15:27 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cherryfly
On the thought of Cain marrying his sister/relative, it would have been no problem at all back then as there was likely none of the generative diseases and such from intermarrying. The more time goes on, the more diseases there are, but at the very beginning...it would have started out almost perfect, wouldn't it? Just a thought.
And why would it have been "more perfect"? That's an assumption required to shoe-horn the literalist/YEC interpretation into scripture.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:08:52 PM
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cherryfly
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: cherryfly
On the thought of Cain marrying his sister/relative, it would have been no problem at all back then as there was likely none of the generative diseases and such from intermarrying. The more time goes on, the more diseases there are, but at the very beginning...it would have started out almost perfect, wouldn't it? Just a thought.
And why would it have been "more perfect"? That's an assumption required to shoe-horn the literalist/YEC interpretation into scripture.
I think no one can deny that new diseases keep popping up...which ergo seems logical that there were less diseases if there are more now. If at the beginning the world was full of disease, then wouldn't everyone have died off by now?
And I am throwing this out without bringing up how young/old the earth is....
_____________________________
Not a lot to lean on
I need Your light to help me find
My place in this world
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:10:50 PM
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jazzact13
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It may seems kind of...uncouth, to say that Cain and his siblings may well have married each other, like that's something against the Creatsion account.
But consider this--if one accepts evolution, then one would have to postulate that...
1. There was not just one but at least two of a new kind of species bred at the same time.
2. At least one have to be male, another female. Very likely, they would have had to have been siblings.
3. They would have had to have found each other and bred together.
4. Their offspring would have had to have lived long enough to have had offspring, very likely by each other again.
In other words, evolution does not escape the need for sibling-relation and breeding. If anything, it exacerbates it, because it had to happen 'ad nauseum', for every phase, and had to not produce genetic defects such as would cause the offspring to die or not be able to produce or have their own offspring be genetically unviable.
Evolution is, in sorriest sense of the words, a fairy tale.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:14:12 PM
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jazzact13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: cherryfly
On the thought of Cain marrying his sister/relative, it would have been no problem at all back then as there was likely none of the generative diseases and such from intermarrying. The more time goes on, the more diseases there are, but at the very beginning...it would have started out almost perfect, wouldn't it? Just a thought.
And why would it have been "more perfect"? That's an assumption required to shoe-horn the literalist/YEC interpretation into scripture.
Mostly because it's true, and partly because it will honk off cow, here's what the Christian Answers link above says.
quote:
Adam and Eve did not have accumulated genetic mistakes. When the first two people were created, they were physically perfect. Everything God made was “very good” (Genesis 1:31), so their genes were perfect—no mistakes! But, when sin entered the world (because of Adam—Genesis 3:6, Romans 5:12), God cursed the world so that the perfect creation then began to degenerate, that is, suffer death and decay (Romans 8:22). Over thousands of years, this degeneration has produced all sorts of genetic mistakes in living things.
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there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:38:09 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
It may seems kind of...uncouth, to say that Cain and his siblings may well have married each other, like that's something against the Creatsion account.
But consider this--if one accepts evolution, then one would have to postulate that...
1. There was not just one but at least two of a new kind of species bred at the same time.
2. At least one have to be male, another female. Very likely, they would have had to have been siblings.
3. They would have had to have found each other and bred together.
4. Their offspring would have had to have lived long enough to have had offspring, very likely by each other again.
In other words, evolution does not escape the need for sibling-relation and breeding. If anything, it exacerbates it, because it had to happen 'ad nauseum', for every phase, and had to not produce genetic defects such as would cause the offspring to die or not be able to produce or have their own offspring be genetically unviable.
Evolution is, in sorriest sense of the words, a fairy tale.
Your understanding of evolution is standard fundamentalist Sunday School fare and hardly worth discussion. The Science and Origins forum is a better area for this.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:42:48 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Only if you are of the Young Earth Creationist pursuasion. Otherwise it is full of unscientific drivel.
I like you Cow, but I sure wish you'd be a little more direct about what you think. 
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"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:44:32 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: cherryfly
On the thought of Cain marrying his sister/relative, it would have been no problem at all back then as there was likely none of the generative diseases and such from intermarrying. The more time goes on, the more diseases there are, but at the very beginning...it would have started out almost perfect, wouldn't it? Just a thought.
And why would it have been "more perfect"? That's an assumption required to shoe-horn the literalist/YEC interpretation into scripture.
Mostly because it's true, and partly because it will honk off cow, here's what the Christian Answers link above says.
quote:
Adam and Eve did not have accumulated genetic mistakes. When the first two people were created, they were physically perfect. Everything God made was “very good” (Genesis 1:31), so their genes were perfect—no mistakes! But, when sin entered the world (because of Adam—Genesis 3:6, Romans 5:12), God cursed the world so that the perfect creation then began to degenerate, that is, suffer death and decay (Romans 8:22). Over thousands of years, this degeneration has produced all sorts of genetic mistakes in living things.
Again, the whole of interpretation depends on whether one is a "literalist". A literal interpretation requires such an assumption.
However, if one takes the viewpoint that God inspired the scirptures be written for the needs of the time, then it is better understood in terms of it being poetic history vs literal history. Remember, too, that these events fall into a period where history was passed on orally and had to be succinct and easily grasped.
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:49:13 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3614
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How easy is it to be brain washed?
Example:
You leave home and jog.
You jog for a while and stop.
You jog for another while and turn left.
You jog further and turn left.
You return home to find two masked men waiting for you.
If you don't know what this is, you have just been brainwashed.
The whole questioning of "Where did Cain get his wife?"
"Where did the other people come from?" etc. is from the simple
task of all of us being brain-washed.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:51:25 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
Again, the whole of interpretation depends on whether one is a "literalist". A literal interpretation requires such an assumption.
Funny how when we don't believe something which doesn't make anything true or false,
we cast doubt on the obvious. Either God's Word is true, or it's a lie.
No assumption to it.
Evolution is a "religion" not a science.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Genesis: Where did all the people come from? - 7/10/2008 1:58:09 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3614
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
And where did Cain's wife come from???
"And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived"
To stick to the OP, here's the obvious answer in the Bible
that we over look because we are presented with a viewpoint
not based on Scripture.
The viewpoint we are given in one way or another is that Cain
left the garden and found his wife. But let's look at what the
Scripture actually tells us.
Gen. 4:16
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt
in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen. 4:17
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, . . . .
What we "read into it" and what is there is not the same.
Cain took his wife with him when he left Eden and then
"knew" his wife in the new land and she had babies.
Hope that helped.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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