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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/11/2008 4:59:34 AM
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scutus
Posts: 352
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
quote:
That's not true. Most Muslim countries are democracies.
Let's not go too far here. Some Muslim countries have some democratic institutions, but it would be a bit of a stretch to say that most of them are democratic in the way that we here understand democracy.
They're not 'our' democracies. Many aren't good democracies in any sense of the word. But most countries with majority Muslim populations are democratic.
_____________________________
Suo enim quisque studio maxime ducitur.
—Cicero, De Finibus, 5.5
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/11/2008 8:12:34 AM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doodah62
My response is to Gladheart who is SO sure Sharia Law would never be implemented in America.
I’m WormHeart. GladHeart is my hippie cousin. ;)
quote:
ORIGINAL: doodah62
You need to read "Slavery, Terrorism & Islam" Contemporary Threat" by Dr. Peter Hammond. In his book, he explains how Islam in not just a religion or a cult, it is a complete system--religious, legal, political, economic & military. Religious component masks the others. Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called "religious rights". When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to "the reasonable Muslim demands" for their "religious rights" they also get the other components under the table.
World Book of FActs 2007 lists our Muslim population at 1.0%, Britian at 2.7%. Anything under 2.0% usually no problems, but over that, the problems begin. Demanding self-governing under Sharia Law does not usually happen until around 5% and over, but already they are pushing for it in Britian. You would do well to educate yourself with how their system works. Remember, our G & L population is only around 1% and look what they are able to demand as their RIGHTS.
What are G & L populations?
I know fully well, that Islam is a total packet – but only in theocracies.
Sharia law will never be implemented in the US for several obvious reasons. The constitution does not allow for the state to sanction a particular religion, so unless you fight a second civil war with the muslims as winners, it is just a no-go.
Of course parts of Sharia law, that only concerns muslims and doesn’t break the law, is probably already in place.
Jews eat Kosher without it having any effect on the rest of the population.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/11/2008 8:15:16 AM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: galadriel2
I think, Wormheart, what I am also concerned about is that God is going to judge America and we aren't going to be able to change His mind on this one. From what I can tell, Al-Qaeda is still organized, calling the shots from the top down, and we haven't stopped that. In view of this and 45 million unborn Americans murdered by the conspiracy of their mothers and doctors via abortion, and other things wrong with America, I am concerned that we aren't going to thwart God's judgment much longer and another attack bigger than 9/11 is looming in our future - not because we won't accept Islam, but because we won't receive Christ - to whom the Word says: 'But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name'. I mean what a gift - to be a child of God - and what a gift to treat with contempt especially when it cost God so much to make it available to men. I'm not saying there isn't still a lot of good in America, but wow, we have so much sin.
God bless all,
Galadriel2
I would respectfully disagree.
From the Born Again stance Denmark has fallen much deeper in sin, and we have thousand year history as a Christian nation. Still – no wrath from God on this one.
I suspect it is a pride thing – considering the US to be blessed among all nations by God. If my reading of the Bible is to be trusted, the only nation to be blessed is the biblical Israel.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/11/2008 2:57:00 PM
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galadriel2
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Thanks, Wormheart, for your thoughtful responses.
If you look in Romans chapter 1, one of the ways that God's wrath is manifest is that He lets people fall into sin - so the U.S. and Denmark pulling more away from Christ and into sin is a manifestation of God's anger at people. But I think another terrorist attack would be an expression of His wrath too.
As far as Israel being the only nation blessed by God - this is a good point to bring up. Israel was set up as a theocracy until Christ came - then the New Covenant was brought into play and the church became the vehicle through which God would save men and teach men the truth replacing Israel - but there is a spill-over. In other words, God blesses countries on behalf of the believers who live in them - it seems to me.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/12/2008 5:30:05 AM
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galadriel2
Posts: 293
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Basically, Christ says in Matthew 24 something to the effect that will He find any faith when He returns. That is what the world is moving towards. I don't want to be overly negative. Where Christ's grace is leading and reigning in lives there exists the blessing of God and genuine good due to Christ living in the person and the person being in Him, but outside of Christ all you find (in America included) is people practicing self-righteousness, idolatry (valuing something more than God in Christ), perversion, murder (there are all kinds of ways to try and destroy someone), deceit, and gluttony.
God bless,
Galadriel2
'For as many as are led by the Spirit, these are the sons of God.' (Rom. 8:14)
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/12/2008 9:08:10 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 510
Joined: 7/14/2005
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In traditionally muslim countries, with the exception of Turkey, even the government submits to the religious rulers(ayatollahs or imams). Most muslim countries are monarchies as well, particularly the Gulf states(Saudi Arabia, Dhubai, United Arab Emirates, Quatar, etc., as well as the Indonesian kingdom of Brunei). NONE of these are democracies and all employ sharia law in civil matters, and any non-muslims are forced to submit to sharia as well. If you are a christian and in possession of a Bible in your own home, you are "guilty" of defaming Islam and can be sent to prison or out to death.
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/22/2008 12:37:17 PM
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davemiller7
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From: NC via NY
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I fear that giving in to Sharia law, even a little, would be a fatal mistake for America or any other non-muslim nation. I'm not an expert on the ways of the muslim extremists, but Sharia law seems to be very harsh and rigid. There seems to be no forgiveness for any matter.
In the early days of American history, we went through such horrible events as the Salem witch trials. Compared to Sharia law, that would probably be like a Sunday School picnic. That said, I feel that we need to oppose any and all efforts to institute even the tiniest bit of Sharia law into our system. We would end up being like the little Dutch boy plugging the hole in the dike with his finger. "Katie, bar the door!"
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/22/2008 8:35:23 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 293
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I agree, Dave (davemiller7). I don't think we can give an inch on the Sharia Law.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/23/2008 11:22:21 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3067
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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A couple of years ago, there was a push to have Sharia law implemented here in Ontario...it was struck down.
I live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood, I think it's about 80%. It sure seems like more to me. I can answer the following questions based on what I've seen here.
Would they expect banks to not charge interest on loans (I think I read somewhere Muslims can't accept loans with interest)?
From my understanding, most Muslims do business with each other. Loans are often done privately or they set up their own institutions and go through that route. Of the 5 banks in my small neighbourhood, there has never been any such request (and there are always long lines of Muslims in the banks so they do some business with the banks.)
What about alcohol, would someone be offended if restaurants served alcohol?
The non-Muslim restaurants in our neighbourhood do serve alcohol. No one has ever pressured them not to. Some serve halal meat, but it's not out of pressure, but out of meeting the needs of your community.
quote:
What about employment? What if a Muslim were to get a job where they'd have to work in an area that makes them come into contact of a "forbidden" thing in their religion? Pork, dog, alcohol, etc. (I'm thinking of those airport cab drivers that refused to let passengers on that had dogs or alcohol).
My grocery store sells pork. The Muslim cashiers have handled my pork. No one has ever made a comment or given a look or anything. I think the ones who work at the store understand that they will come into contact with packaged pork and are ok with it (it's not like they're actually handling the meat). I'm assuming those who have a problem with it just don't get a job there.
Some non-Muslim people in my building have dogs. Muslim people get in the elevators with the dogs. I've seen them pet the dogs.
Sure, you'll have pockets like my neighbourhood where it is centred around a mosque, has halal butchers and Muslim clothing stores. They have their communities the same way other groups do, because they have the freedom to do so. There are some extreme nuts who want Sharia law, but for the most part, from my own personal experience, they don't want it or need it here.
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/23/2008 6:54:14 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1260
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I do agree with what you are saying. Folks say the courts would never allow the Sharia law in America, but there are schools that are teaching Islamic stuff as a way of allowing kids to 'experience' Islam. But try that with the Bible and folks scream and yell. It seems the separation of church and state really only applys to the Christian church and not all religions. I'm not really too worried about it though b/c God is still in control. If they make me follow Islamic practices and persecute me if I don't, then praise God. I'm being persecuted for His sake. Remember that they took God out of the schools, but He's still there. They took Jesus out of Christmas, but He's still there. They can take Jesus out of society and put in Islam, but guess what? He's still there. He always will be still there no matter what they do. :) they'll never win. :)
quote:
ORIGINAL: galadriel2
Thank you everyone for the good imput. To add and reiterate a wee bit - if a Muslim group wants to open an Islamic gym with separate workout rooms for the men and women - that doesn't violate anyone else's freedom/rights - but to ask a private gym or something like that to change its rules - this goes over the line of one of the foundational tenets that America is all about and that is also key to her prosperity.
As far as your input Wormheart about a takeover of America by Islam - I'm not so concerned about that as about just a bit by bit movement away from America's foundational documents and what they stand for: the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, the Bible, the Gettysburg Address - things of that sort. I trust James Madison and the system that the Founders set up. I don't trust very much of what is going on in contemporary America right now.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Sharia Law in America? - 7/25/2008 12:36:24 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 293
Joined: 6/5/2008
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Good posts, Lexie and Dancre....What an encouragement - God is still on the throne and 'we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose'. (Rom. 8:28)
God bless,
Galadriel2
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