RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 9:05:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
So for someone to say that going to bars is wrong, or being around people drinking is wrong, in all situations, is naive at best. To you it may be, but that doesn't mean it is wrong for your brother to do so in his freedom.
So Christians can hang with fornicators, liars, idolaters, those who worship whatever, porn stars, etc...
John
If you want to look at everything black and white you are going to miss the rest of the color spectrum. Those same fornicators, liars, idolaters, etc are the very people we are to reach out to, not to mention we have all been at one time. Let the Spirit within you shine like a beacon, to who? your brethren? or the world? You can have exclusivity and elitism if you want, but its not my path. God bless.
How "lukewarm" can one be?
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 9:09:53 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
Does a bar necessarily promote sin?
What does it promote?
quote:
Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not?
Sure...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 9:19:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
he spent His time MINISTERING, not fraternizing with them. There is a difference and you know it.
And you honestly think He got the reputation of the religious folk for being a drunkard and a glutton by dropping off meals or a few words and moving along?
For God so loved the WHAT, hypocrites and religious? And you think you can avoid the lost as much as possible but love them?
You have a very sanitized and unrealistic view of the Lord.
For further edifcation, read what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 5. In it the ones he says to avoid company with were not fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters. No, he said to avoid the company of church folk that were hypocrites - just like Jesus practiced.
The verse says that being around them can't be avoided in order to live in the world, not that one should seek out their company...
John
Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 9:21:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
How many Christian bars do you know of?...
Just curious: Do you only frequent "Christian" restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, clothing or sportwear stores, and other businesses?
What is the purpose of a bar as compared to a grocery store?
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 9:24:17 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Does a bar necessarily promote sin? Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not?
How many Christian bars do you know of? I'm not saying it's wrong to drink. I am saying that it is sinful to participate in a place that encourages sinning.
Now, how does one tell if a bar promotes sin? For example, my wife and I go to the local China Buffet, and they do serve alcohol, but I rarely see people drinking there. Is it ok or not ok for a Christian to go to there? Where does one draw the line?
Is there not a discernable difference between a bar and a buffet that offers drinks?
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 9:31:05 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Ok, here is my 2 cents, responding to the OP and not the conversation already happening, so I apologize in advance, anyway:
I do not drink at all, however I have in the past gone to bars with coworkers who do drink. They would have fun, but did not like the fact that I wouldn't buy them a round. Its my personal conviction that it is sin however that is just my conviction and not a Biblical mandate at all, anyway.
One time my old boss who admittedly had a drinking problem bought me a drink and insisted that I drink it, I kept on saying no. He finally got convinced as a testimony that because I was a Christian that I would stick by my convictions.
My point is as long as you are not sinning, that is feeling God telling you that you are doing wrong, then going out with friends should be just fine.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:12:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Ok, here is my 2 cents, responding to the OP and not the conversation already happening, so I apologize in advance, anyway:
I do not drink at all, however I have in the past gone to bars with coworkers who do drink. They would have fun, but did not like the fact that I wouldn't buy them a round. Its my personal conviction that it is sin however that is just my conviction and not a Biblical mandate at all, anyway.
One time my old boss who admittedly had a drinking problem bought me a drink and insisted that I drink it, I kept on saying no. He finally got convinced as a testimony that because I was a Christian that I would stick by my convictions.
My point is as long as you are not sinning, that is feeling God telling you that you are doing wrong, then going out with friends should be just fine.
Paul was persecuting Christians and felt as if he was doing the work of God... Not only did he not feel he was sinning while God's very people were being put to death, he thought he was doing what God wanted him to do...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:28:00 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Ok, here is my 2 cents, responding to the OP and not the conversation already happening, so I apologize in advance, anyway:
I do not drink at all, however I have in the past gone to bars with coworkers who do drink. They would have fun, but did not like the fact that I wouldn't buy them a round. Its my personal conviction that it is sin however that is just my conviction and not a Biblical mandate at all, anyway.
One time my old boss who admittedly had a drinking problem bought me a drink and insisted that I drink it, I kept on saying no. He finally got convinced as a testimony that because I was a Christian that I would stick by my convictions.
My point is as long as you are not sinning, that is feeling God telling you that you are doing wrong, then going out with friends should be just fine.
Paul was persecuting Christians and felt as if he was doing the work of God... Not only did he not feel he was sinning while God's very people were being put to death, he thought he was doing what God wanted him to do...
John
All I have to say is this:
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[a] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:32:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Ok, here is my 2 cents, responding to the OP and not the conversation already happening, so I apologize in advance, anyway:
I do not drink at all, however I have in the past gone to bars with coworkers who do drink. They would have fun, but did not like the fact that I wouldn't buy them a round. Its my personal conviction that it is sin however that is just my conviction and not a Biblical mandate at all, anyway.
One time my old boss who admittedly had a drinking problem bought me a drink and insisted that I drink it, I kept on saying no. He finally got convinced as a testimony that because I was a Christian that I would stick by my convictions.
My point is as long as you are not sinning, that is feeling God telling you that you are doing wrong, then going out with friends should be just fine.
Paul was persecuting Christians and felt as if he was doing the work of God... Not only did he not feel he was sinning while God's very people were being put to death, he thought he was doing what God wanted him to do...
John
All I have to say is this:
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[a] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
Doesn't wipe away the fact that feeling ok isn't a sure sign from God that what one is doing is ok...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:33:00 PM
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ddave12000
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My opinion of all this is that it's just fine to go in a bar. It's fine to even have a drink. It's also fine if you don't want to, just don't tell others they shouldn't unless you have a personal relationship with them and know that going to a bar for that person would lead to sin.
Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors. He turned water into wine when the wine ran out at a wedding party. He sat down with the town floozy and chatted. He even had her pull his water.
A bar is just another establishment where you can have fellowship, eat food, have drinks if you want.
I do believe that drunkeness is a sin. I don't believe that going to a bar supports drunkeness any more than going to a grocery store or any other store that sells alcohol promotes drunkness. People have been getting drunk since the beginning of time, I doubt they're going to stop now.
I think the key thought here is "be in the world, not like the world".
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:34:24 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
Doesn't wipe away the fact that feeling ok isn't a sure sign from God that what one is doing is ok...
Ok, maybe I used the wrong term, so let me rephrase it as if a person's conscious doesn't condemn them, then it is ok.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:39:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
Doesn't wipe away the fact that feeling ok isn't a sure sign from God that what one is doing is ok...
Ok, maybe I used the wrong term, so let me rephrase it as if a person's conscious doesn't condemn them, then it is ok.
Paul's conscious didn't condemn him... Christians on this forum support homosexual marrige... Their conscious doesn't tell them otherwise, though it should... Yet the word of God is clear on the matter...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:41:40 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
Doesn't wipe away the fact that feeling ok isn't a sure sign from God that what one is doing is ok...
Ok, maybe I used the wrong term, so let me rephrase it as if a person's conscious doesn't condemn them, then it is ok.
Paul's conscious didn't condemn him... Christians on this forum support homosexual marrige... Their conscious doesn't tell them otherwise, though it should... Yet the word of God is clear on the matter...
John
It is? I do not see anywhere in the word that says anything about not going to a bar, but I am not gonna change your mind at all. I posted what I did to help the OP, not to have a debate on whether it is right or not.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:45:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
Doesn't wipe away the fact that feeling ok isn't a sure sign from God that what one is doing is ok...
Ok, maybe I used the wrong term, so let me rephrase it as if a person's conscious doesn't condemn them, then it is ok.
Paul's conscious didn't condemn him... Christians on this forum support homosexual marrige... Their conscious doesn't tell them otherwise, though it should... Yet the word of God is clear on the matter...
John
It is? I do not see anywhere in the word that says anything about not going to a bar, but I am not gonna change your mind at all. I posted what I did to help the OP, not to have a debate on whether it is right or not.
I suggest you read again what I wrote... I never said it's clear regarding going to a bar...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:49:44 PM
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ddave12000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If bars don't promote dunkness more than store that sells alcohol promotes drunkness... Well... I have been in bars and stores around the world and I encountered far more drunks in bars than I did in grocery stores... 
John
I'm sure you have! How many people do you see at the grocery store buy alcohol and drink it there? Yeah, not too many. This is a total guess, but I would say that 50% of people who are alcoholics don't get drunk at bars, they get drunk at home. They need to buy alcohol somewhere, and bars aren't generally the most convenient or least expensive place to buy it.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 10:55:53 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
Paul's conscious didn't condemn him... Christians on this forum support homosexual marrige... Their conscious doesn't tell them otherwise, though it should... Yet the word of God is clear on the matter...
I am sorry John, I more or less misread what you had said, but I do agree with you on this, but it is still God who needs to do the convicting though. We can let people know and in that way brings the truth, thus conviction also.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 11:06:43 PM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
Does a bar necessarily promote sin?
What does it promote?
A bar could promote drunkeness and a bar could promote a place where people can get together and fellowship over a beer or a cocktail. So it is not necessarily true that a bar promotes drunkeness. Perhaps you just have been in the wrong bars.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/10/2008 8:25:03 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
Does a bar necessarily promote sin?
What does it promote?
Touchy, touchy... What does Starbucks promote? Or a public library?
Perhaps you went - or go - to bars to sin, I dunno, but I'm not one who goes about looking for opportunities to sin since I was born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of the living God. I'll explain that, if you want.
I've found that when one has a lust problem, they assume everyone else has their same weakness and uncontrollable desires. Your assumption that one drinks and/or goes to bars to get drunk and hook up with people to commit further sin makes me wonder what afflicts you in this regard. Is this a cry for deliverance for you or someone you love? It certainly is out of proportion to Christians spending time with unbelievers even as Jesus and Paul did.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/10/2008 9:33:53 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Touchy, touchy... What does Starbucks promote? Or a public library?
Perhaps you went - or go - to bars to sin, I dunno, but I'm not one who goes about looking for opportunities to sin since I was born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of the living God. I'll explain that, if you want.
I've found that when one has a lust problem, they assume everyone else has their same weakness and uncontrollable desires. Your assumption that one drinks and/or goes to bars to get drunk and hook up with people to commit further sin makes me wonder what afflicts you in this regard. Is this a cry for deliverance for you or someone you love? It certainly is out of proportion to Christians spending time with unbelievers even as Jesus and Paul did.
I agee JimboFletch that those trying to ewuate hanging out in bars to what Jesus did is just wrong.
Now those defending going to bars may just be of a different mindset about bars than I do.
When I frequented bars back in the days before the Cross; when one went to a bar in Texas where I was raised you either got drunk, laid, in a fight, any combination of the three. There was no other reason to go.
Thsnks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/10/2008 9:36:32 AM
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bluestone
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I don't think the OP was talking about frequenting dives.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/10/2008 12:19:46 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Admittedly, the only time I have been in a bar was when I was in high school and needed money for the bus I could see coming in the distance. The whole bar experience, in downtown St. Louis, freaked me out! I haven't been back since.
But I have been around people who drank too much -- at a Passover seder!! That was weird, and it is the reason my shul quit having public seders, too.
If I have to leave someplace, worried about the others driving out at the same time, that is not a place I want to return to. However, since a typical seder lasts 3 - 4 hours, and one has a few sips of wine here and there throughout the whole thing, now that I attend private seders, it doesn't bother me one bit.
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"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/10/2008 8:21:50 PM
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Jet_A_Jockey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
You hit on a key aspect here-CHOICE. These are "Christians" choosing to go to these places. I do not understand why. Why would I want to go to a bar to fellowship if I wasn't looking for something just a little bit unwholesome? Well being a part of a few different billiards associations I can tell you that there is alot more to going to a bar than drinking and other unbecoming things. And not every bar is alike, some bars are sports bars, and people go there to watch/participate in sports events. Does everyone drink? Most, but not all. Whats next? Avoiding any restaurants that serve alcohol? If you go to a hotel and they have a mini bar with liquor in it you best leave immediately as to not be seen as a hypocrite.
It's too bad that some people don't live up to your standard of what a Christian should be, but luckily none of us are the judge.
And to be honest, in comparison, I've met many more people who were doing the work of Christ inside of a bar setting than I ever have on the internet.
God bless.
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