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RE: The Defilement Of Physical Death! - 7/8/2008 4:18:16 PM
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LucySmith
Posts: 12
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hello Spying
it is good to see the ministry of Christ in action thru you, rather than the dangers of church traditions hey!!
plus
to get back to the preaching of Paul, and truth rather than the 1/2 pagan ideas + mixture of church traditions.
I loved this pauline revealing....
2 tim. 1 v -9-10quote:
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
yes sir....thats the Gospel...He came to Abolish Death and bring to His Church that new form of life called ETERNAL [zoe]! ofcourse it is a Gift therefore only those who have received His eternal life would understand His Gospel and divine Goodnews. No wonder there was rejoining hey? to think that the fallen nature is removed and life in the Spirit begins,...resurrection from the dead.
ofcourse a Believer is processed by the Holy Spirit, and learns how to overcome death and defeat their last enemy as per bibe NT recommendation. what does it say again ''put off mortal [dying in the tomb because of sin] and put on immortal [ the very nature of Abba].
how good is that!!! 
eternal life is not interupted by death.....death is an enemy and death is to be overcome. hurrah.... in this world.
as Heaven is a realm not a location.
somehow the church became anti-life and died.
The pews die
however IN Christ believer lives.....just as Messiah said in John 11 v 25-26.
I guess not too many have this eternal life hey?
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RE: The Defilement Of Physical Death! - 7/8/2008 4:29:59 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
hello Spying
it is good to see the ministry of Christ in action thru you, rather than the dangers of church traditions hey!!
plus
to get back to the preaching of Paul, and truth rather than the 1/2 pagan ideas + mixture of church traditions.
I loved this pauline revealing....
2 tim. 1 v -9-10quote:
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
yes sir....thats the Gospel...He came to Abolish Death and bring to His Church that new form of life called ETERNAL [zoe]! ofcourse it is a Gift therefore only those who have received His eternal life would understand His Gospel and divine Goodnews. No wonder there was rejoining hey? to think that the fallen nature is removed and life in the Spirit begins,...resurrection from the dead.
ofcourse a Believer is processed by the Holy Spirit, and learns how to overcome death and defeat their last enemy as per bibe NT recommendation. what does it say again ''put off mortal [dying in the tomb because of sin] and put on immortal [ the very nature of Abba].
how good is that!!!
eternal life is not interupted by death.....death is an enemy and death is to be overcome. hurrah.... in this world.
as Heaven is a realm not a location.
somehow the church became anti-life and died.
The pews die
however IN Christ believer lives.....just as Messiah said in John 11 v 25-26.
I guess not too many have this eternal life hey?
None of this means that we won't physically die. Yes Jesus did come to abolish death, which He did. That death is not the physical death though. It is the spiritual death of an eternity in hell.
Basically, if what you are saying is right, we either have a whole lot of thousand plus year olds walking amongst us, or there has not been one single true believer since Jesus came, until you, right now.
Is there corruption in the church, yes. Is there hypocrisy in the church, yes unfortunately there is. But there is also a lot of false teaching going around that claim to be the truth, and in time reveal what they really are. This in my opinion is just one of them.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: The Defilement Of Physical Death! - 7/8/2008 4:40:46 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
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From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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Lucysmith - considering you're friends with Spying and both came here in one accord - perhaps you can answer the questions I asked of Spying on page 1? Thanks.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: A Believer CANNOT overcome physical death now! - 7/8/2008 5:02:32 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
hello Spying
it is good to see the ministry of Christ in action thru you, rather than the dangers of church traditions hey!!
plus
to get back to the preaching of Paul, and truth rather than the 1/2 pagan ideas + mixture of church traditions.
So you only do hubris and posturing too - can't accept the challenge to produce any 200 to 2000 year-old healthy, living & breathing Christians.
You, like old Spy, are slowly succumbing to the corruption of the flesh that you deny.
Who says an old fool can't be fooled?
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Who Told You That Souls Were Immortal? - 7/8/2008 5:04:17 PM
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Spying
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/8/2008
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Hi SavedByGraceMD,
Thank you for your response, and please be assured that I am never offended by the sincere expression of one's opinion to me. This is actually one way that we can be a blessing to each other:
quote:
By no means is he alive to this day. If so, where is he? Wouldn't he still be out there preaching and teaching?Would he not be right now at this moment spreading the good news?
How do you yourself feel about the fulfillment of the Law? Do you not think that Messiah has a responsibility there in light of what HE has claimed? Consider this demand of the Torah:
quote:
Deuteronomy 19:15
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
John was a very special witness, was He not? Whether you believe that John is yet alive or not, you must admit that there is some grounds for believing that John outlived His Peers or fellow Witnesses.
According to the Law, that you have just read, should one witness continue His testimony against His accused? It is not lawful to do so; therefore, legal grounds exist for John remaining silent in His exile wherever that exile might be!
quote:
The soul is immortal
Ouch! You perhaps should close your eyes here because this might sting a little:
quote:
Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Sincerely, Spying
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RE: Who Told You That Souls Were Immortal? - 7/8/2008 5:13:52 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Spying
Hi SavedByGraceMD...
More hubris and posturing and poor handling of scripture. Can you put up or just yak?
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RE: Who Told You That Souls Were Immortal? - 7/8/2008 5:14:10 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Spying
Hi SavedByGraceMD,
Thank you for your response, and please be assured that I am never offended by the sincere expression of one's opinion to me. This is actually one way that we can be a blessing to each other:
quote:
By no means is he alive to this day. If so, where is he? Wouldn't he still be out there preaching and teaching?Would he not be right now at this moment spreading the good news?
How do you yourself feel about the fulfillment of the Law? Do you not think that Messiah has a responsibility there in light of what HE has claimed? Consider this demand of the Torah:
quote:
Deuteronomy 19:15
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
John was a very special witness, was He not? Whether you believe that John is yet alive or not, you must admit that there is some grounds for believing that John outlived His Peers or fellow Witnesses.
According to the Law, that you have just read, should one witness continue His testimony against His accused? It is not lawful to do so; therefore, legal grounds exist for John remaining silent in His exile wherever that exile might be!
quote:
The soul is immortal
Ouch! You perhaps should close your eyes here because this might sting a little:
quote:
Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Sincerely, Spying
True but the believers soul lives on, does it not.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: A Believer CANNOT overcome physical death now! - 7/8/2008 5:24:45 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Spying
Ouch! You perhaps should close your eyes here because this might sting a little:
quote:
Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
And you PRETEND to be a teacher?!?!?! Do a little research - outside your tiny box - and discover that "soul" in the Hebrew means LIFE, not some mystical ethereal protoplasm.
The more you yak the more you show how little you understand.
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The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:28:56 PM
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Spying
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/8/2008
Status: offline
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Hi Earthless,
Thank you for your questions, and I already know what answer Lucy will give you concerning our denomination affiliation so I will indeed give a simple answer to your simple question: Lucy and I do not belong to any denomination or church group.
I do believe that after HIS Resurrection, that Messiah Yahushua is HIMSELF the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!
Sincerely, Spying
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:31:07 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Spying
Hi Earthless,
Thank you for your questions, and I already know what answer Lucy will give you concerning our denomination affiliation so I will indeed give a simple answer to your simple question: Lucy and I do not belong to any denomination or church group.
I do believe that after HIS Resurrection, that Messiah Yahushua is HIMSELF the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!
Sincerely, Spying
When was Elohim ever UNrestored or in NEED of restoration?
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:33:13 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Spying
Hi Earthless,
Thank you for your questions, and I already know what answer Lucy will give you concerning our denomination affiliation so I will indeed give a simple answer to your simple question: Lucy and I do not belong to any denomination or church group.
I do believe that after HIS Resurrection, that Messiah Yahushua is HIMSELF the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!
Sincerely, Spying
So you do not attend any church? No preachers or teachers you both listen to?
I also asked the simple question of who do you say Jesus is?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:47:06 PM
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LucySmith
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/14/2007
Status: offline
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i am sad you dont believe the Words of the Saviour JimboFletch.
i do
John 11 v 24 - is Martha's version and the church version - most demons. that is
John 11 v 25-26 is THE SAVIOUR'S gospel, that matches up directly with Paul and His preaching of the goodnews 2 tim. 1 v 9-10.
I actually believe them.
I am A BELIEVER.....not a church-creeder. Cuz if i sit under that system i die.
however if i sit under the tutoring of the Holy Spirit I LIVE,
why?
i learn how to overcome my last enemy.
here on earth.
now - how good is that!!!!
the Holy Spirit's goal for a Believer is to train them the race to the finishing line and receive the Prize - the Prize is immortality or obtining the same nature as their Real father Abba.
I am [along with my Pal Spying named after Caleb the spy who knew how to enter into the promised land, when all others were too fearfull] running this divine race.
WE ARE receiving even now LIFE ABUNDANT [John 10 v 10] and bciase of this new way of living in His gift of eternal life, we would not go back to the scraps of traditional church denomination religion that kills us.
We see Messiah's opinion of these places [Rev 3 v 16-17] and take His advice.....not to be wretched, naked and miserable and make Him sick.
therefore because we are BELIEVERS, we know how to overcome death...our last enemy.
We are not self-righteous, religious nor puffed up as the seminary educated but have received Wisdom by eating from the Tree of Life.
the grave is meant for sinners.....as the wages of death is sin.
U see , sickness nor acidents dont kill people SIN DOES.
something to think about hey!
The Saviour tells people that few receive eternal life - so - what do the rest receive?
ummmm.
few is NOT many
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:52:59 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
i am sad you dont believe the Words of the Saviour JimboFletch.
You don't understand anything you've quoted, Lucy. And you can't back up your assertions. I have KNOWN my Savior for 41 years, and you do not represent His teachings correctly.
And you can't back up your assertions.
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:54:49 PM
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LucySmith
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/14/2007
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perhaps the answer is Suspense Writer
you have not received eternal life.
those who have called Believers and His temple, dont think it strange at all.
eternal life is [zoe] and no death interupts such a life - few find.
Perhaps Abba is ''sparing'' with His gift of Life.
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RE: A Believer CANNOT overcome physical death now! - 7/8/2008 5:56:17 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Spying
Hi Earthless,
Thank you for your questions, and I already know what answer Lucy will give you concerning our denomination affiliation so I will indeed give a simple answer to your simple question: Lucy and I do not belong to any denomination or church group.
I do believe that after HIS Resurrection, that Messiah Yahushua is HIMSELF the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!
Sincerely, Spying
When was Elohim ever UNrestored or in NEED of restoration?
Jump in here any time you like, Lucy or Spy. I'm waiting to read this explanation, since neither of you can give evidence of your other claims.
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:57:27 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
you have not received eternal life.
IF you have received eternal life, explain how you obtained it.
Thanks,
JF
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 5:59:24 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11004
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
LucySmith - Please note TOS 6, which states in part, this:
- Attacking the character or motives of someone who differs with your view or denying that he or she is a Christian is unacceptable.
Please keep this in mind in future posts.
Thank you!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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The Opportunity Of A Lifetime! - 7/8/2008 6:02:26 PM
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Spying
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/8/2008
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Hi JimboFletch,
Despite this your preference:
quote:
I prefer not to waste time playing games.
I do appreciate you taking your time and effort in making a defense of the hope that is within you:
quote:
1 Peter 3:15
15 But sanctify YAHWEH ELOHIM in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Here is how I look at it. The very worst that can happen to Lucy and myself should you be right is simply that we will grow old, get sick, and die as you have sincerely indicated to us. However, what is the worst that can happen to you if we should happen to be right?
If you should continue in your obstinate denial, then you will miss out on the opportunity to be a part of the ground floor of the 2nd Temple. You will miss the opportunity of a lifetime! Do you have any idea of how bad that might feel?
Sincerely, Spying
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 6:08:56 PM
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LucySmith
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
i am sad you dont believe the Words of the Saviour JimboFletch.
You don't understand anything you've quoted, Lucy. And you can't back up your assertions. I have KNOWN my Savior for 41 years, and you do not represent His teachings correctly.
And you can't back up your assertions.
perhaps you know the church jesus only JimF.
That system of paganism and mixed truth that kills people.
He is different than the bible MESSIAH who came to give life to the dead in sin.
Church misrepresents Him and His resurrection life....i guess that is why He terms them as wretched, miserable, naked and blind.
A BELIEVER believes the Word of their Saviour and so are a different species i guess called A NEW CREATURE, where all old things have passed away. Death is an old thing.... it would be in the list of ''old things'' dont u think?
well OLD THINGS dont belong anymore in HIS NEW CREATURE.
I hope u can see this now a little better than previously.
ofcourse LIFE ABUNDANT means death has been overcome.... that last enemy has been defeated
why?
well u see the Holy Spirit is a Believer's teacher and His name is HOLY so His teaching makes His pupil HOLY too.... HOLY SPIRIT = HOLY PUPIL and so sin is stopped just as Messiah said to some STOP SINNING,
again ''BE HOLY AS THE FATHER IN HEAVEN IS HOLY''.
holiness in a person brings them into LIFE
sin IN A PERSON GIVES THEM DEATH.
NOW IF i listen too you - i die, for you have not received the information needed to overcome your own personal death.
If I listen to the Holy Spirit - He make me Holy 2....see this? therefore I stop sinning. He makes sure i hate sin. that i hate it o much i cease from it. The church allows sin in its ranks. As long as their priests eek out a salary who care who enters into its halls.
sin is in
Holiness is abandoned.
the pews die
their wage is death
We have a choice.
die to sin
die in sin.
simple really.
now ofcourse it take practice to stop sinning it is called OVRCOMING AS HE [the MESSIAH] OVERCAME.
now.... it is so good to read of these overcomer's rewards.
Rev. 2-3 lists them and please notice - death is our last enemy to be overcome.
so perhaps it would be great to seek the Holy Spirit ....just ask.... and the Father knows those who are His, He knows His church and His living stones.
I do hope ye take some good advice and live.....rather than die in sin.
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 6:13:10 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11004
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
LucySmith and Spying,
Please note TOS 15 (wow, I'm throwing around the Terms of Service a lot), which states this (emphasis mine):
quote:
15. You will not promote by repeated statements, by provision of URLs to other Web sites, by recommendation to engage in non-community activities such as watching programs, reading books, or attending events, or by any other means, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by Salem Web Network in its sole discretion.
- Refrain from making statements or URLs which promote the acceptability of the homosexual lifestyle, adult entertainment, sexual immorality or pagan and false religions. No repeated posting of URLs to sites which have content that would violate the Terms of Service, the Nicene Creed or other majorly accepted scopes of Christian beliefs as interpreted by Salem Web Network at their sole discretion. If you are unsure about a site or content please direct your question to community@salemwebnetwork.com. This rule also applies to any material whether it be on the web, in print, on video, or on audio. (No telling everyone to go check out Anton Lavey's latest published audio speech.)
If you are unable to comply with this, please refrain from posting.
Thank you!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: The Restored YAHWEH! - 7/8/2008 6:54:13 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: LucySmith
i am sad you dont believe the Words of the Saviour JimboFletch.
You don't understand anything you've quoted, Lucy. And you can't back up your assertions. I have KNOWN my Savior for 41 years, and you do not represent His teachings correctly.
And you can't back up your assertions.
perhaps you know the church jesus only JimF.
That system of paganism and mixed truth that kills people.
He is different than the bible MESSIAH who came to give life to the dead in sin.
Church misrepresents Him and His resurrection life....i guess that is why He terms them as wretched, miserable, naked and blind.
A BELIEVER believes the Word of their Saviour and so are a different species i guess called A NEW CREATURE, where all old things have passed away. Death is an old thing.... it would be in the list of ''old things'' dont u think?
well OLD THINGS dont belong anymore in HIS NEW CREATURE.
I hope u can see this now a little better than previously.
ofcourse LIFE ABUNDANT means death has been overcome.... that last enemy has been defeated
why?
well u see the Holy Spirit is a Believer's teacher and His name is HOLY so His teaching makes His pupil HOLY too.... HOLY SPIRIT = HOLY PUPIL and so sin is stopped just as Messiah said to some STOP SINNING,
again ''BE HOLY AS THE FATHER IN HEAVEN IS HOLY''.
holiness in a person brings them into LIFE
sin IN A PERSON GIVES THEM DEATH.
NOW IF i listen too you - i die, for you have not received the information needed to overcome your own personal death.
If I listen to the Holy Spirit - He make me Holy 2....see this? therefore I stop sinning. He makes sure i hate sin. that i hate it o much i cease from it. The church allows sin in its ranks. As long as their priests eek out a salary who care who enters into its halls.
sin is in
Holiness is abandoned.
the pews die
their wage is death
We have a choice.
die to sin
die in sin.
simple really.
now ofcourse it take practice to stop sinning it is called OVRCOMING AS HE [the MESSIAH] OVERCAME.
now.... it is so good to read of these overcomer's rewards.
Rev. 2-3 lists them and please notice - death is our last enemy to be overcome.
so perhaps it would be great to seek the Holy Spirit ....just ask.... and the Father knows those who are His, He knows His church and His living stones.
I do hope ye take some good advice and live.....rather than die in sin.
I have a problem with the highlighted sentences. We even though we are believers, are still in the world, and still in the flesh, so we do not stop sinning. At least I have found this to be true. But through the Holy Spirits conviction, and through the law, we recognize it as sin, confess it, repent from it, and humbly receive Gods forgiveness. I think Romans 7 explains it better.
So are you saying, that a believer cannot sin?
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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I did have a little laugh though.
