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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/16/2008 12:59:45 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
Another problem I had with the book when I went back and read it through to see what it was really saying,
1. It lacked a clear presentation of the Gospel, oh it had a feel good presention but not the Gospel. No mention of sin, repentance, hell, God's Holiness and Justice.
Excuse the observation, but the book was primarily written to the Church, i.e. belivers. One would hope the average reader, therefore, is up to snuff on the Gospel. You are. So, did you need more than was presented in the book?
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/16/2008 1:27:26 PM
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alias007
Posts: 137
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Our church joined the Purpose Driven bandwagon a few years ago. We got halfway through it and the leadership realized that it was unbilical and dropped it like a hot potato.
He uses 15 different bible translations to fit into his point, he quotes well know atheists, etc.
The theology isn't really out of whack, because technically there is no theology.
I'd rather call it the "Purpose DRIVEL Life"
I found the atheist quote you were referring to, and I see nothing wrong whatsoever with the way in which Warren uses it.
It is on the first page; Chapter 1 and this is how it is presented:
"Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless."
He credits "Bertrand Russell, atheist" with the quotation.
I think it's very obvious why he decided to include this quote. He's using it to drive home his reason for writing the book: If you believe in God, the question of life's purpose is of utmost importance.
I don't see anything objectionable about his use of Russell's quote. It's merely a clever way of underscoring an important point.
< Message edited by alias007 -- 7/16/2008 1:34:58 PM >
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/16/2008 1:52:58 PM
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alias007
Posts: 137
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
1. It lacked a clear presentation of the Gospel, oh it had a feel good presention but not the Gospel. No mention of sin, repentance, hell, God's Holiness and Justice.
So couple with a low view of Scripture and a lack of clear presentation of the Gospel I have problems with PDL. As Rick Warren became more well known it has become clear what way he leans and where his priorities are and they are in a totally different direction then what I see presented in the Bible so that makes me even more warry of PDL then I was already.
Oh BTW Jumbo its not because I don't like Baptist, I am a Baptist.
I find it interesting that you can tell us what is NOT in the book, when you admit to having not read all of it (your words: I couldn't get past the first week in the book )
If you actually read the book, it does present the gospel, and it speaks of sin, repentance, and the cross:
Page 58:
"Will you accept God's offer? First, believe. Believe God loves you and made you for his purposes. Believe you're not an accident. Believe you were made to last forever. Believe God has chosen you to have a relationship with Jesus, who died on the cross for you. Beleive that no matter what you've done, God wants to forgive you.
Second, receive. Receive Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. Receive his forgiveness for your sins. Receive his Spirit, who will give you the power to fulfill your life purpose."
[emphasis added]
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/16/2008 2:24:38 PM
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bzirk
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You will wait in vain for something that is heretical.
I remember when the book first got popular, that I checked it out at the library, and it wasn't my cup of tea, but I appreciated it was reachign a certain audience. Then I heard a lot of complaints about Warren not ever mentioning sin. I ended up going to the saddleback website where lo and behold Warren had a message about salvation that basically covered the Romans Road. It's hard to use the Romans Road nad not talk about sin. LOL!
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/20/2008 1:06:36 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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Rick Warren closely associates with New Age sympathizers and obvious heretics like Ken Blanchard who helps run his organizations.
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My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/20/2008 1:14:54 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
Another problem I had with the book when I went back and read it through to see what it was really saying,
1. It lacked a clear presentation of the Gospel, oh it had a feel good presention but not the Gospel. No mention of sin, repentance, hell, God's Holiness and Justice.
Excuse the observation, but the book was primarily written to the Church, i.e. belivers. One would hope the average reader, therefore, is up to snuff on the Gospel. You are. So, did you need more than was presented in the book?
Who said it was written only to the Church...oh you mean those buildings with crosses on top. Many non-believers read Rick Warren and are getting confused and more lost. Who said that we should never remind the Church(body of Christ) about the sin they came from. Oh and since this is a book about the purpose of the Church we should give great examples of evangelism. Oh, but Rick Warrens Purpose is church building growth and experiencing religion. What would you expect from an adherent of Robert Schuller and his Vegas Cathedral.
We have a purpose to seek and save the lost.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/21/2008 12:42:15 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
...Who said it was written only to the Church...oh you mean those buildings with crosses on top....
If that's your idea of what the Church is, then you are sorely mistaken, sir. You may need to take Christianity 101 again yourself.
quote:
We have a purpose to seek and save the lost.
So you agree with Rick Warren. Why the sarcasm, then?
quote:
Who said that we should never remind the Church(body of Christ) about the sin they came from.
Proof that you didn't read the book, only the "PDL for Dummies" by another person who could not be bothered with the facts.
BTW, Dan, since you lectured me last week on sweet talking people that you agree with, your tone seems to have sunk a bit off the high road...
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/27/2008 5:37:31 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
...Who said it was written only to the Church...oh you mean those buildings with crosses on top....
If that's your idea of what the Church is, then you are sorely mistaken, sir. You may need to take Christianity 101 again yourself.
You take me out of context or perhaps I should clarify. Most people think that if you attend a bldg with a cross on top then you are a Christian, but it's just not true. I have found that most people who think they are saved are not, because they have never truly dealt with sin in their own lives. I see Warren as writing to the unsaved cultural "christian-like" person. True Christians know their purpose it's the Great Commission. I don't need no cake eatin mystic in sheepskin tellin me my purpose!
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/27/2008 5:48:30 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
We have a purpose to seek and save the lost.
So you agree with Rick Warren. Why the sarcasm, then?
quote:
Who said that we should never remind the Church(body of Christ) about the sin they came from.
Proof that you didn't read the book, only the "PDL for Dummies" by another person who could not be bothered with the facts.
BTW, Dan, since you lectured me last week on sweet talking people that you agree with, your tone seems to have sunk a bit off the high road...
Sarcasm noted and I appologize...
I do not believe Rick Warren is seeking to save the lost. What I see is church growth, or butts in pews. That is not the mission. I will send a new Christian to any bible believing , teaching Church.
I have read the book, I got it free off a pile at a local church 5-6 years ago. I was disgusted by chapter one, but continued through 1/2 of the book. It amazes me that so very few have recognized this, but then look at the times and the signs.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/27/2008 5:54:48 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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If I finish this book to the end it will be for further refuting of it.
Does everyone know who Ken Blanchard is? He is Rick Warrens' leadership trainer. He is a New Age heretic who sits on the Board of a group called the Hoffman Institue Foundation since 2003. Rick Warren has a New Ager teaching Pastors and other leaders. Read 1 Timothy 6.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/27/2008 5:59:08 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alias007
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
1. It lacked a clear presentation of the Gospel, oh it had a feel good presention but not the Gospel. No mention of sin, repentance, hell, God's Holiness and Justice.
So couple with a low view of Scripture and a lack of clear presentation of the Gospel I have problems with PDL. As Rick Warren became more well known it has become clear what way he leans and where his priorities are and they are in a totally different direction then what I see presented in the Bible so that makes me even more warry of PDL then I was already.
Oh BTW Jumbo its not because I don't like Baptist, I am a Baptist.
I find it interesting that you can tell us what is NOT in the book, when you admit to having not read all of it (your words: I couldn't get past the first week in the book )
If you actually read the book, it does present the gospel, and it speaks of sin, repentance, and the cross:
Page 58:
"Will you accept God's offer? First, believe. Believe God loves you and made you for his purposes. Believe you're not an accident. Believe you were made to last forever. Believe God has chosen you to have a relationship with Jesus, who died on the cross for you. Beleive that no matter what you've done, God wants to forgive you.
Second, receive. Receive Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. Receive his forgiveness for your sins. Receive his Spirit, who will give you the power to fulfill your life purpose."
[emphasis added]
A very weak presentation of the gospel and no mention of sin just "come as you are" This sounds like a universalistic gospel.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/28/2008 8:15:43 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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From: The Land of Graham
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Since you seem to support Rick Warren, let me show what that link above supports:
"The Word within a Word shapes our lives so we need to listen to what our own inner being is telling us and to what nature is bringing us. This is our truth.".........Huh?............
Truth is a word. What's the word within that word. Jesus said I am the way the Truth and the Life.
When truth is dead in America all that will be left is the experiences people can have. That is sinking sand people. This is where Rick Warren is taking us.
< Message edited by Kath -- 7/28/2008 11:19:06 AM >
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/28/2008 10:29:28 PM
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soma77
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Matthew 4:4 "But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live
by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of
God."
John 17:17 "Sanctify them through Thy Truth: Thy word is truth."
Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them
that put their trust in Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He
reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of
Thy righteous judgments endureth forever."
Psalm 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my
path."
A Christian that rejects the word of god and agrees to receive only themselves as authority or only themselves as an authority of the Bible will not unite because they lack understanding and love. These individuals see not to possess the spirit of the Bible so are very far from Christian word.
Those that read the Bible and use it as a standard of authority need to possess the proper Christian attitude. They need to apply love with those attitudes when handling the Word of God. If they do not have love in their heart than , the "sword of the Spirit" (Ep 6:17) will be abused to hurt or harm the parties involved. Spiritual immaturity is usually the cause of this problem.
Ephesians 4:2
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."
We will not have the word of God unless we are motivated by Love.
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http:Christian Mysticism
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/31/2008 7:17:10 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: soma77
A Christian that rejects the word of god and agrees to receive only themselves as authority or only themselves as an authority
Yep that much is true so then show me in the BIBLE where our purpose is taught it is taught in the Great Commission and Rick Warren is bringing New Age sympathizers into the Church to decieve, even if it were possible the elect.
< Message edited by Dan1138 -- 7/31/2008 7:44:26 AM >
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/31/2008 7:28:13 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
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From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: soma77
A Christian that rejects the word of god and agrees to receive only themselves as authority or only themselves as an authority of the Bible will not unite...
We are not called to unite the World the World hates Christians and kills Christians because of Truth. They are called Martyrs. We are called to spread God's Word. If you are uniting the World you are a Universalist and that is not the Gospel of Christ.
quote:
...because they lack understanding and love. These individuals see not to possess the spirit of the Bible so are very far from Christian word.
Those that read the Bible and use it as a standard of authority need to possess the proper Christian attitude. They need to apply love with those attitudes when handling the Word of God. If they do not have love in their heart than , the "sword of the Spirit" (Ep 6:17) will be abused to hurt or harm the parties involved.
It is good that you desire love, but the Spirit of God cannot be used to abuse. He is a God of Love. If I were to abuse it would be from another spirit. Rick Warren does not seem to know the Spirit of Christ. Perhaps Rick Warren and Contemplatives are worshipping another spirit that only looks like Christ and lies to people through wonderful experiences.
< Message edited by Dan1138 -- 7/31/2008 7:45:37 AM >
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/31/2008 7:38:28 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: soma77
Spiritual immaturity is usually the cause of this problem.
Ephesians 4:2
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."
We will not have the word of God unless we are motivated by Love.
Now that was abusive in the spiritual sense. The inference is that one is immature if not uniting the World. That is the World's position and not Christ's. Christ was Crucified by the World.
In 2 Timothy 4:1-5 Paul summarizes the requirements of a faithful preacher: "I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. "
< Message edited by Dan1138 -- 7/31/2008 7:47:17 AM >
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 7/31/2008 7:55:37 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
...I see Warren as writing to the unsaved cultural "christian-like" person. True Christians know their purpose it's the Great Commission. I don't need no cake eatin mystic in sheepskin tellin me my purpose!
If you think that's what the books about, then you missed it and to call Warren a mystic is hilarious. Have you actually read the book or just big-church-hater reviews about the book? The more you write, the less it sounds like your opinion is based on an honest read of the book.
quote:
If I finish this book to the end it will be for further refuting of it.
Okay, you settled my curiousity. A prejudiced read of one chapter and no intent on an honest review. Sad, but you represent a growing number of folk that are comfy in the mode of teaching and delivery (note that I did not say "substance") from the late 19th century church and refuse to entertain any effort to reach or teach 21st century believers.
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 8/1/2008 8:06:30 PM
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InfoCentral
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I thought it was a good book. I purchased the leather bound edition. Sure there are a lot that isn't covered but what it does do is try to direct you to pursuing a Christian life with meaning and purpose. That isn't a bad thing is it?
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RE: Purpose-driven life - 8/6/2008 3:25:09 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Whose purpose? Rick Warren's or our Lord Jesus Christ's?
How many here have read the book? Don't you guys find it rather overhyped and its theology a little out of wack?
At the end of the day, it's not so much God speaking to us what we should do with our life but more of a mortal's idea of how we should live on this Earth. I find that very disturbing to no end!
I agree with what many have already said. Rick Warren met a need in the church. We should bless him for it.
It is basic. But you know what, alot of the basics are new to those in the church. So if this book challenges people to grow, to seek God, He will be found!
Sometimes God used our selfishness as the means to His ends. I was a pretty complacent Christian until we moved and I needed a friend. My sister suggested I find a Bible Study Fellowship to join as a way to make friends. So I did. And you know what? I found Jesus to be the friend I was looking for all along. God used my selfish pursuit of finding a friend to meet my needs to grow me into a woman who loves Jesus and can be a friend to others. That's God.
So I say let's commend Rick Warren. Surely there is deeper, richer, and meatier material out there than PDL but God is using this book to get babes off the bottle and out of diapers. Hallelujah!
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Actually our main purpose is die to ourselves and let Christ live through us. Sharing the Gospel is part of that, but however that is not our only job, our job is die to ourself more and more so we can become the vessel that we need to be for Christ to live through us. It is not about doing things for Christ, it is letting Christ do things through us.
