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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/13/2008 10:27:37 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LawrenceJCaldwell
Thank you all for your posts on the reality of the cross and its true meaning. But I would like to take you a little deeper into the question of offense. Consider this from my upcoming book, Christian Mythology:
"Christians tend to think of idolatry as Old Testament figures made of wood and stone and precious metals. God belittles these images and says they cannot see, cannot hear, cannot speak, and certainly cannot save. We are commanded not to serve any other gods. We are encouraged to turn to the living God from idols. We are told that the sin of disobedience is like idolatry and stubbornness is like witchcraft. But we say in our congregations today that such things aren’t around anymore, that these words are for times past.
Does not this present world worship the creation rather than the Creator?...When Jesus said, “It is finished” He meant it. Not only was sin conquered, the Devil vanquished, and the price paid for atonement, but it was also the end of the crucifixion. Jesus died once for all sin for all men for all time. He is not put to the death daily. See Hebrews 9-10. So why do so-called Christians where a cross on a chain around their necks? Why are there crosses in our churches? Worse yet, why are there crosses in so many places with a supposed likeness of Jesus still hanging there?
Jesus is not on the cross anymore. He doesn’t die all over again every time we sin. He doesn’t shed His blood all over again every time we think we need atonement. He died once and then rose again into heaven. To put Him on the cross means we don’t believe that His death, burial, and resurrection were sufficient for paying the price of our sin. ... Upon our very flesh we wear blatant symbols that cry out, “No God! Your death was not sufficient for me.” Christian, tear off that cross. Tear down that cross from the altar. Destroy the images of a dying Christ. It is finished.... Idolaters worship more than anything else their very own flesh and the products of their very own hands. So just as Jesus did not die for the bad things we do, likewise we are not commanded to turn from the bad things produced by our handiwork, but from our very own flesh. We are not defiled by the things outside our body or the things we take into our bodies. We are defiled by what is within our hearts. That’s where the true idols are. The things we make, the things we possess, the things we covet, crave, and caress are not the idols we have to worry about. God says they are just things, dumb, lifeless things. But they are images of the sinister within our hearts. Outward manifestations of whatever has gripped our minds and hearts through our own wicked flesh to turn from God.
So it matters not to create some list of what we consider to be idols today. They are the same as they were since Adam. They are self. And they are expressed by all manner of things. We take God’s creation and manufacture things that represent “self” to us. We call it “self-expression”. ... Our churches are weak because the power of God is not there as long as we enthrone the power of the flesh. What we call God’s blessing is nothing more than the achievement of men’s planning and execution of means to a self-glorifying end. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. To turn from idols means to obey the truth of Galatians 2:20; to die daily to the flesh; to destroy the physical evidence of your idols and put them away; to forsake all and follow Jesus."
I look forward to your comments.
I don't quite get it, are you calling me an idolater because I wear a ring.
I agree, Jesus died once for all, and is alive right now at the right hand of the Father.
I do not worship the cross, as I have already stated, but the one who went to the cross in my place. I wear the ring to constantly remind me of where He had to go so my sins can be forgiven. The crucifixion of Jesus is very real to me, and breaks my heart when I think about the horrible death He endured, so I wouldn't have to. So, I wear this ring to remind me of the infinite depth of love that He has for me, so much so, to endure the death of the cross.
I do not at any moment worship, or bow down to my ring. I do not at any moment sing praises to my ring.
I do however worship my Lord and risen king, Jesus Christ. I do however sing praises to the Lamb of God, slain before the foundation of the earth. The one and only worthy of my praise. The true and living God, period.
I see no problem with a person or a church who has a cross, providing it is as a reminder of what was done on our behalf, and does not take away from the one who is worthy to be praised.
The Lord is risen, He is indeed, alive in heaven and in my heart.
Idolatry is as prevalent today as it was back then in OT times, maybe more so. Cars, houses, people, tv, and so many more things that we own, become idols to us. So I agree that there is a problem there. But the cross only points us to Him. A reminder of what took place so we could be redeemed. Blood had to be shed, innocent blood had to be shed. A perfect sacrifice was offered, and God himself died on the cross that day. So let us never forget the fact that death had to happen, His death had to happen in order for us to be redeemed. Once we recognize that fact, we look to the empty tomb and the resurrection as proof that the Lord is risen, and He is alive.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/14/2008 1:56:37 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 492
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The cross and crucifix can be idols to some yet it is not always and in fact would say that mostly not. Yet I do admit that there is a problem with that. However, our church will not do away with it on our building, for it is a reminder to many just what our Lord and savior went through for us. We will see them all over in one form or another, It should be a reminder when we see it. A reminder of what was done and what we should do each day. For He said anyone who wishes to be my disciple should pick up his cross and follow me, meaning we should go and die to self. We should also use the factor of so many being around to witness to others what it means and why it is held dear to many.
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/14/2008 9:33:01 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 155
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
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For me it is a sign of the greatest love of all, the greatest sacrifice of all. It's an incredible gift, the gift of life. I should have been punish but He took my place.
I also think that for most people, the cross on their neck is to 'show' that they are christians. They belong to Jesus. Sure , for some it is by superstition, a kind of protection for them but i dont think it 's the majority.
_____________________________
Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/15/2008 7:37:35 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3622
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The cross was a roman torture device. It means nothing more than the way the romans killed Jesus.
What was done on the cross means everything.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/15/2008 8:59:00 AM
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19ramman85
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It means that; someone a whole lot bigger than I - paid the ultimate sacrifice, for me - that I am whoafully inadequate to repay. His love for me, and the rst of the 6.6Bilion ppl here on this rock right now, is far greater than that # muliplied many X's over.
Reality check- I got to thinking awhile ago, about what Jesus said about losing ones life for his friend(s)- like Jesus did for us. At first, I thought- this is going to be a no-brainer. But the more I thought about it- the harder that question was to answer.
Mostly because - it is easy to say you would - but the reality is ........ can you say -FOR CERTAIN, you would?
-charles
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/15/2008 2:31:23 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The cross was a roman torture device. It means nothing more than the way the romans killed Jesus.
What was done on the cross means everything.
This is true.
What He did means everything.
But you seem more able to disassociate the 2, than I.
It was the way the romans killed. It was a torturous death. Jesus did go willingly to the cross. It is no more than mere wood. But the meaning behind it, the reason for why He went is what I am asking about. I am not asking you what a cross means to you, but the cross that Christ went to and died on, so that through His blood we can be redeemed.
Like I said, you seem more able to disassociate the cross, and the act of His willful death.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/16/2008 6:49:10 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3622
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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If Jesus was hung should we...esteem....rope?
Should a cat of nine tails now be revered because Jesus was beaten with one?
Yes, the method was extreme and the sacrifice great. What Jesus went through should be known....just not...worshipped.
I don't have a cross in my house and do not have any cross around. To me, it would be like hanging an electric chair around my neck.
IF, there is any symbolism by the cross its that its....empty. That Jesus is alive.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/16/2008 10:16:09 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
If Jesus was hung should we...esteem....rope?
Should a cat of nine tails now be revered because Jesus was beaten with one?
Yes, the method was extreme and the sacrifice great. What Jesus went through should be known....just not...worshipped.
I don't have a cross in my house and do not have any cross around. To me, it would be like hanging an electric chair around my neck.
IF, there is any symbolism by the cross its that its....empty. That Jesus is alive.
As I have already stated, I do not worship the cross, but the one who went there. But don't be bashful, tell us what you really think. You have your opinion, and that is fine. No need to always be so hostile. 
As for the cross, when I see it I think of Him. When I see it, I don't see wood, I see His blood. It always points me to Him. You want to downplay the cross, and that is fine. To me it means more, and I think it meant more than nothing to Paul also.
Colossians 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Galatians 6:14
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Colossians 1
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Hebrews 12
2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
and he talks about the crucifixion.
1 Corinthians 2:2
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
and how our old selves are crucified with Him
Romans
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
and of course how He humbled himself
Philippians 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
So to me, the cross is more than just the wood, or the means of His death. It represents the fact that He was willing to die for us. The fact that it was a gruesome, horrible death only adds to it.
So I see, how you feel about the cross, so what do you think when you hear someone say..."take it to the cross"...or..."at the foot of the cross"...or..." I take my burdens and place them at the foot of the cross".
Should we worship the cross, no. Does it mean something to us, yes, and it should.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: What does the cross mean to you? - 7/26/2008 9:30:51 AM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
Posts: 27
Joined: 7/3/2008
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Thank you SonInMe1 for providing the obvious expansion that puts the correct light on this subject.
SavedByGraceMD, perhaps an expansion should be considered as well, such that outside observers are put in the light. It is the unbelievers who are deceived by our jewelery and ornaments. For some it's because they don't understand. For others it's because they have wrong expectations, false impressions, or certainly wrong doctrine.
For their sakes, we preach among them and ourselves no one but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The object of attention obviously the Former.
_____________________________
Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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