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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/20/2008 10:56:43 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 424
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
I agree entirely. But if you are speaking of the homebuyers you can say the same as well. No one held a gun to their head and forced them into a risky loan either. So the blame as far as the folks losing homes is a mix of both.
Anyway, I think it is ridiculous that the taxpayers are now going to be footing the bill for all of these stupid decisions. Unbelievable.
Agreed...on all counts. It's just one other indication that we're sliding, rather quickly, to some sort of Socialist government (if not worse). And people will be more than happy to let the "good-guy government" come in and save the day!
It's amazing to me the number of people that don't understand, when the government "bails out" anyone, it's actually coming out of the taxpayers own pocket!
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 12:32:09 AM
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relady
Posts: 1040
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
No one held a gun to their head and forced them into a risky loan either. Try telling that to a first time home buyer sitting at the closing table, no home to go to except the one they are gettting ready to sign on, the sellers can sue them if they don't perform and the bank has changed the loan terms without telling them. Don't laugh, in the past 4 years this was not all that uncommon. I saw it first hand a whole lot more than I would like to admit.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 1:57:19 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
No one held a gun to their head and forced them into a risky loan either. Try telling that to a first time home buyer sitting at the closing table, no home to go to except the one they are gettting ready to sign on, the sellers can sue them if they don't perform and the bank has changed the loan terms without telling them. Don't laugh, in the past 4 years this was not all that uncommon. I saw it first hand a whole lot more than I would like to admit.
No other home to go to? Where did they come from then? I imagine they were living somewhere before they decided to purchase a home.
And if they have no clue how the mortgage or home buying process works then perhaps they could have figured that out a little sooner? Ignorance is not an escape from personal responsibility. They should have known what they were doing in the first place before it ever got that far.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 8:04:27 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1960
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quote:
And if they have no clue how the mortgage or home buying process works then perhaps they could have figured that out a little sooner? Ignorance is not an escape from personal responsibility. They should have known what they were doing in the first place before it ever got that far.
Ok let's listen again to what she was saying:
quote:
the sellers can sue them if they don't perform and the bank has changed the loan terms without telling them. Don't laugh, in the past 4 years this was not all that uncommon. I saw it first hand a whole lot more than I would like to admit.
There you have it. You get a copy of the papers you go take it to your attorney and get it checked out. You sign the actual document HOWEVER it got switched. What else do you expect from people Sophie? This isn't unheard of where I am.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 8:38:58 AM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 424
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
And if they have no clue how the mortgage or home buying process works then perhaps they could have figured that out a little sooner? Ignorance is not an escape from personal responsibility. They should have known what they were doing in the first place before it ever got that far.
Ok let's listen again to what she was saying:
quote:
the sellers can sue them if they don't perform and the bank has changed the loan terms without telling them. Don't laugh, in the past 4 years this was not all that uncommon. I saw it first hand a whole lot more than I would like to admit.
There you have it. You get a copy of the papers you go take it to your attorney and get it checked out. You sign the actual document HOWEVER it got switched. What else do you expect from people Sophie? This isn't unheard of where I am.
Granted the banking industry has become corrupted, but consumers still need, and should be, aware of what they can truly afford. And, before one signs a new set of papers, an intelligent person would at least glance a the figures...then hopefully see a red flag if changes were made. And an intelligent person would know what kind of beast they're working with when they go into a lender's office!
There is no backing away from personal responsibility here. No matter how hard it is to swallow. I see too many people around me drowning in debt, and still going into more, to have what they want, when they want it. And there are too many people just paying that "minimum monthly payment" on their credit cards.
Do you really want your tax dollars to be spent bailing these people out? Do you really think they'll learn anything by it all???
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 9:58:17 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
And if they have no clue how the mortgage or home buying process works then perhaps they could have figured that out a little sooner? Ignorance is not an escape from personal responsibility. They should have known what they were doing in the first place before it ever got that far.
Ok let's listen again to what she was saying:
Oh believe me, I heard it the first time.
quote:
quote:
the sellers can sue them if they don't perform and the bank has changed the loan terms without telling them. Don't laugh, in the past 4 years this was not all that uncommon. I saw it first hand a whole lot more than I would like to admit.
There you have it. You get a copy of the papers you go take it to your attorney and get it checked out. You sign the actual document HOWEVER it got switched. What else do you expect from people Sophie? This isn't unheard of where I am.
Like I said did they demand a fixed rate mortgage and then sign for an adjustable rate? If so, how on earth did they not notice?
More likely the case is that they were already in the process of taking an ARM or interest-only mortgage on a house they could never afford in the first place. They hoped to be able to be more financially sound when the payment changed, thinking they would make something happen in the meantime to be able to afford it. This is probably the majority of these loans. Either way, it boils down to the personal responsibility of the buyer as well.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 12:55:14 PM
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rlj
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The loans themselves aren't the only reason though but a part of the reason. Another big part of the reason IMHO is the skyrocketing cost of living. When I say "cost of living" I am looking at gas and food. 4 years ago I couldn't have possibly considered food being this high and even energy. Medical expenses is another one for CoL. If you look at Michigan and Ohio 2 of the top 6 states in foreclosure's it's a lack of decent work as jobs have moved out or companies have downsized. These two states have had their labor pools decimated in the last 10 years since the China agreement. The people in my area who are losing their homes and my old neighborhood leads the way in foreclosure's are losing them partly because they couldn't pay in the first place, partly because of the outrageous cost of living and lastly because of being screwed by the loans they signed either in ignorance or in thinking they understood.
As far as the impact on these loans and the housing market as a whole they drove UP the price of homes. When I drive through a neighborhood and see literally 20+ homes that can't be sold it tells me that those homes are being put on the market for more than they are worth. The more buyers in a market you have the greater the cost of items for that market.
There is also the pressure of realtors. Take a moment and figure out if you don't own a house or guesstimate what you could afford in a mortgage. Somewhere in this mess from a local realtor you can run a calculator to figure it out http://howardhannamortgage.com/. When I do this I have gotten the same number that is easily 30k OVER what I would have any hope to afford. I am willing to bet that would be consistent for you to. Realtors aren't paid to help you make a good decision they are paid to sell you a home. The calculator is almost the same as the one if you apply for a fixed APR from Fannie or Freddie- whichever. What I think I could afford though if the next 5 years energy and food prices escalate like they have been I am going to be on the curb.
You can obviously say that I'm at least attempting to be responsible and others should have to. I would agree with you completely. However what excuse do the banks really have for making these loans to those with flimsy credit in the first place? For $30 a service for landlords will get you a credit history, a work history, an income and tax history and a reference history of any tenant who applies for a lease if you use that service. Think if the banks were really concerned about their bottom line they couldn't have done the same exact thing? Except maybe just maybe the banks didn't want to because all of that money out there made the bottom line look good. When it came time to foreclose they got a house out of it that they could resell for more than they foreclosed on. Until the market finnally started to go down.
Really what excuse is there for a bank not to spend money on a check for a person they are going to loan 50k+ to for a house other than they don't care because they're going to make their money one way or another? If they don't than the feds will fix them up. :D
There are different problems in Florida and California there are also some nifty scams to adding to this.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 1:44:59 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
The loans themselves aren't the only reason though but a part of the reason. Another big part of the reason IMHO is the skyrocketing cost of living. When I say "cost of living" I am looking at gas and food. 4 years ago I couldn't have possibly considered food being this high and even energy. Medical expenses is another one for CoL. If you look at Michigan and Ohio 2 of the top 6 states in foreclosure's it's a lack of decent work as jobs have moved out or companies have downsized. These two states have had their labor pools decimated in the last 10 years since the China agreement. The people in my area who are losing their homes and my old neighborhood leads the way in foreclosure's are losing them partly because they couldn't pay in the first place, partly because of the outrageous cost of living and lastly because of being screwed by the loans they signed either in ignorance or in thinking they understood.
I think I agree with a lot of what you said. There are other factors besides the mortgage payment itself that cause people to not be able to keep up with their bills. But the cost of living increase in food, gas and energy is not the fault of the bank giving mortgage loans any more than it is the fault of the buyer. These things are always an unforeseen risk in any purchase we make that has a certain term on it where payments will continue to be demanded. You never know, you could lose your job, increase cost of living, get a divorce. Things happen. I was mainly speaking of those who took out the risky loans to buy what they should not have been able to afford though.
quote:
There is also the pressure of realtors. Take a moment and figure out if you don't own a house or guesstimate what you could afford in a mortgage. Somewhere in this mess from a local realtor you can run a calculator to figure it out http://howardhannamortgage.com/. When I do this I have gotten the same number that is easily 30k OVER what I would have any hope to afford. I am willing to bet that would be consistent for you to. Realtors aren't paid to help you make a good decision they are paid to sell you a home. The calculator is almost the same as the one if you apply for a fixed APR from Fannie or Freddie- whichever. What I think I could afford though if the next 5 years energy and food prices escalate like they have been I am going to be on the curb.
Yes those mortgage calculators are certainly a joke. But no one should be basing their decision on how much home to buy on what the realtor tells you you can afford anyway. I guess I just feel that it is the responsibility of the buyer to figure that out for themselves, after all they know more than anyone else how much money they actually have and how they spend it.
quote:
You can obviously say that I'm at least attempting to be responsible and others should have to. I would agree with you completely. However what excuse do the banks really have for making these loans to those with flimsy credit in the first place? For $30 a service for landlords will get you a credit history, a work history, an income and tax history and a reference history of any tenant who applies for a lease if you use that service. Think if the banks were really concerned about their bottom line they couldn't have done the same exact thing? Except maybe just maybe the banks didn't want to because all of that money out there made the bottom line look good. When it came time to foreclose they got a house out of it that they could resell for more than they foreclosed on. Until the market finnally started to go down.
Really what excuse is there for a bank not to spend money on a check for a person they are going to loan 50k+ to for a house other than they don't care because they're going to make their money one way or another? If they don't than the feds will fix them up. :D
I really am not attempting to defend the banks. I am only saying that the blame goes both ways, and the buyers are also responsible for their own mess. The banks also acted in stupidity. I don't think either party deserves a bailout.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 2:31:52 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 424
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Somewhere in this mess from a local realtor you can run a calculator to figure it out http://howardhannamortgage.com/. When I do this I have gotten the same number that is easily 30k OVER what I would have any hope to afford.
Funny you should mention them. We bought a house through them last year. We knew what we could and could not afford and operated accordingly. However, we were a bit concerned because I was about to start a new job the next week and was currently, technically "unemployed". But, they approved us so fast, your head would spin!
I asked, "Just how much would you have approved us for?" He said, "Oh, at least $25K more!" We knew we couldn't feasibly afford that, but they were quite willing to "give" it to us.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 3:49:59 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1815
Joined: 3/30/2008
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The sad part is alot of banks are gonna start falling. We cannot keep propping them all up. With billions of dollars.
It's weird living here watching it fall, slowly, listening to all the talking heads trying to make it seem as if it ok, don't worry, be happy.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 3:57:09 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2713
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
GroupW, I do see your points and you make good ones. However, I would say that because of your line of work, you probably understand more about such products than the average consumer will ever know. I strongly feely that the lenders had, or should have had, a responsibility to better explain these loans before they were issued. As a Realtor who has had to work with LOTS of different banks, I can tell you that most loan officers really don't do a very good job of really making it clear what the pitfalls of such loans might be.
LOL - that's probably true. I probably know more about these products than any normal consumer would ever either NEED or WANT to know. As a result, I'm probably a bit more likely to take a harder line than most on this issue.
You also have a good second point. Disclosure is truly an issue - the docs were written to provide for legal necessity, and certainly not for understandability. The Fed is currently working on better disclusore standards - 'bout time.
Still, I can't believe that people don't read these things. I understand it's not easy, but you just signed on the dotted line for a couple hundred grand and you don't want to read it????? I read all my docs on the loans that I've signed. Granted, it's faster for me since I'm used to seeing these things, but still....
If you can read it and understand it, then do so. If you can't, get a lawyer to look it over. (And bring him to the closing!)
(Such is the sympathy you're likely to get from a Type A mortgage geek!)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 4:32:47 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
The sad part is alot of banks are gonna start falling. We cannot keep propping them all up. With billions of dollars.
It's weird living here watching it fall, slowly, listening to all the talking heads trying to make it seem as if it ok, don't worry, be happy.
I agree. I find it impossible to believe that everything is going to be sunshine and lollipops if this keeps happening. But we've been being told for years everything is running smooth, they don't want to scare anyone, you know?
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 4:34:35 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
You also have a good second point. Disclosure is truly an issue - the docs were written to provide for legal necessity, and certainly not for understandability. The Fed is currently working on better disclusore standards - 'bout time.
Still, I can't believe that people don't read these things. I understand it's not easy, but you just signed on the dotted line for a couple hundred grand and you don't want to read it????? I read all my docs on the loans that I've signed. Granted, it's faster for me since I'm used to seeing these things, but still....
If you can read it and understand it, then do so. If you can't, get a lawyer to look it over. (And bring him to the closing!)
You're right on on this one!
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 4:37:05 PM
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Marcus.
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I was pre-approved for a home loan before I started house hunting. I was very conservative on what I would allow my mortgage payments to be and what type of loan I would take. I was surprised by the mortgage lender pushing the ARM. I had read that it was for the wealthy not middle class. He said that they pushed it for folks who move frequently to make the payment lower and the wealthy. Not knowing when I would move again, I avoided the ARM. With the prices in my area averaging $300K and not finding anything I liked in my price range I quit looking altogether.
I wonder how many lenders pushed these ARMs as a way to lower your monthly payments if you thought you would be moving before the initial period expired.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 4:51:16 PM
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NoShow
Posts: 430
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The thing about the "switching loans" and evil lender stories is they weren't the majority of cases. So blaming the collapse on them is quite a reach.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/21/2008 5:24:13 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2713
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I wonder how many lenders pushed these ARMs as a way to lower your monthly payments if you thought you would be moving before the initial period expired.
Fairly common. It's one of the standard sales points.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/22/2008 2:48:51 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1815
Joined: 3/30/2008
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There are actually lawsuits against big lenders in my 'hood. They preyed on a lot of elderly black people, people that owned their homes for years, had lots of equity, they started people to refinancing, giving loans, lied to them it got housing prices up 150%. Just 10 years ago, you could buy a house for $30,000. At one point they were up to $200,000 in the same neighborhood. Now whole blocks are boarded up. Abandoned.
People are now paying $1400 notes for the same 'hood, same houses, crime has not went down, the houses don't look better, no more business's are coming in, 6 schools have closed this year, jobs are leaving.
Then on the other hand, I seen the lenders playing into the American Dream, where the house your grandmother left you was fine for years, but now you can sell that and move into a BIG HOUSE, 8br, 4 baths, etc. Things you really don't need. 4 car garage.
I think it is both the lender and consumers fault.
We wanted MORE, BIGGER, and they gave it to us so they could have more and bigger.
Greed. Unchecked.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/22/2008 8:50:01 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I think it is both the lender and consumers fault.
We wanted MORE, BIGGER, and they gave it to us so they could have more and bigger.
Greed. Unchecked.
Absolutely right tracydolls! That's why in most instances I have difficulty finding sympathy for the situation.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/22/2008 2:53:05 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2713
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
No one held a gun to their head and forced them into a risky loan either. Try telling that to a first time home buyer sitting at the closing table, no home to go to except the one they are gettting ready to sign on, the sellers can sue them if they don't perform and the bank has changed the loan terms without telling them. Don't laugh, in the past 4 years this was not all that uncommon. I saw it first hand a whole lot more than I would like to admit.
Personally, I would fail to close and let them sue me. 1) They're not likely to sue, particularly if the market is a hot one 2) I can countersue the bank as long as I kept reasonable records/copies, and 3) I always leave room for such contingencies in my offer. 4) I try to involve a lawyer early on in order to avoid problems like this.
A basic problem here is buyer education - on my first house, noone advised me on how to do X,Y and Z. I nearly got in trouble on that days before closing. Now, I have the information I need to avoid problems down the road. I should have had that information earlier.
There is an incredible lack of resources for the first time buyer on the negotiation and closing phases of a real estate transaction. Many of the problems you cite could have been avoided with a modest amount of foresight and legal advice.
I would NEVER be forced into buying a house I could not afford due to a last minute change in terms (I almost walked away from $5k in earnest money once over that issue.)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/22/2008 2:57:35 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2713
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
There are actually lawsuits against big lenders in my 'hood. They preyed on a lot of elderly black people, people that owned their homes for years, had lots of equity, they started people to refinancing, giving loans, lied to them it got housing prices up 150%.
I think it is both the lender and consumers fault.
I agree. Compounding the problem is a persistent racism within the mortgage industry. Minorities of equal credit standing to a white person continue to be sold subprime mortgages at a far higher rate, despite the fact that they would have qualified for a lower cost conventional conforming loan. While I will defend my industry to a point, there remain some aspects of the business that are very unsavory.
The commercial mortgage industry went through a period in the 1980's/90's where we weeded out a lot of the unsavory players. It appears to me that the same process is beginning in the single family realm. It's about time.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/22/2008 10:54:19 PM
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relady
Posts: 1040
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
No other home to go to? Where did they come from then? I imagine they were living somewhere before they decided to purchase a home. Uh, when you have terminated your lease and are purchasing a home, generally you've lost the right to continue to live in your previous abode.
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And, before one signs a new set of papers, an intelligent person would at least glance a the figures...then hopefully see a red flag if changes were made. And an intelligent person would know what kind of beast they're working with when they go into a lender's office! And you do know that in most states by the time you get to closing you don't have any contingencies left and if you don't close then you are breaching a contract that can land you in court, right?
It is really easy to arm chair quarterback this issue, but I can tell you when you're between a rock and a hard place the "personal responsibility" mantra isn't quite as cut and dried.
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Realtors aren't paid to help you make a good decision they are paid to sell you a home. Actually, this is only true if the Realtor is working as a transaction broker or for the seller. If you sign a buyer's agency agreement that creates a fiduciary relationship between you and your Realtor. However, with the proliferation of loan products in the last half dozen years, most Realtors have had to rely on loan officers and lenders to at least be honest in their dealings with their clients. Most of my lenders until recently had over 200 different products they could try and fit the buyer into. Not being a loan officer, my knowledge of all these products is limited.
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The thing about the "switching loans" and evil lender stories is they weren't the majority of cases. So blaming the collapse on them is quite a reach. I'm a Realtor so I've probably seen more of it than you have and i can tell you that it's not as uncommon as you would think. Keep in mind there is practically NO regulation on these guys. There's not even a professional organization you can get them censure through because they don't have to be licensed! It was far more common than a lot of people think.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/22/2008 10:58:54 PM
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relady
Posts: 1040
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Personally, I would fail to close and let them sue me. 1) They're not likely to sue, particularly if the market is a hot one 2) I can countersue the bank as long as I kept reasonable records/copies, and 3) I always leave room for such contingencies in my offer. 4) I try to involve a lawyer early on in order to avoid problems like this.
As far as #1 goes...that's a lot easier said than done when you're a first time home buyer, you've given up your place to live and you're gonna lose all the money you already have sunk into the deal.
As for #2...yes you can. As long as you have the money to do so. I have seen plenty of people do this...but not first time buyers.
As for #3...we have contingencies also, but by the time of closing they have all been waived or resolved so there is no legal "out" left. Again, veteran buyers with money will be a lot more likely to walk away even if there aren't any contingencies left.
As for #4....in Missouri the use of lawyers for real estate is limited. We use title companies who have an examiner who is an attorney. Our sales contract is VERY buyer friendly but not unlimitedly so. Generally only large investors use lawyers. Again...they require money and if you have it it's fine. Most average sellers around here wouldn't even consider accepting a contract from a lawyer.
Most first time buyers buying $100-$200K homes don't have the means to pursue counter-suits and such. They are truly between a rock and hard place.
I don't deny that there is much buyer responsibility in all this mess....and I have talked more than one buyer out of ARMs & interest-only loans, but if we aren't careful the banks will make sure we overlook their responsibility because they have the money and the power of spin.
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There is an incredible lack of resources for the first time buyer on the negotiation and closing phases of a real estate transaction. Many of the problems you cite could have been avoided with a modest amount of foresight and legal advice. Absolutely. I think the national stats are that 88% of first time buyers use some form of 100% financing. Often what they have been able to save is being used to pay closing costs or to move. They are and always have been very front money short, which weakens their ability to walk away.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/23/2008 11:10:00 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: relady
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No other home to go to? Where did they come from then? I imagine they were living somewhere before they decided to purchase a home. Uh, when you have terminated your lease and are purchasing a home, generally you've lost the right to continue to live in your previous abode.
Then they shouldn't be so quick to terminate the lease before the sale is final. It still comes down to responsibility.
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It is really easy to arm chair quarterback this issue, but I can tell you when you're between a rock and a hard place the "personal responsibility" mantra isn't quite as cut and dried.
Personal responsibility is what it is, there is no escape from the fact that most everyone taking these loans did so out of either greed or ignorance. If they were so tight on funds that they were between "a rock and a hard place" then I would have to say they had no business purchasing a home at that moment anyway. Just because they wanted to buy a home doesn't mean they should have.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/23/2008 11:35:55 AM
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sylvan
Posts: 120
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
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Personal responsibility is what it is, there is no escape from the fact that most everyone taking these loans did so out of either greed or ignorance. If they were so tight on funds that they were between "a rock and a hard place" then I would have to say they had no business purchasing a home at that moment anyway. Just because they wanted to buy a home doesn't mean they should have.
That's true, but it's not entirely fair to label everyone that got into a bad loan greedy or ignorant. In most cases, they just wanted a home (what's wrong with that) and they trusted their lender. If you look at the overall facts, it is the lenders and banking institutions that were greedy. These are extremely wealthy individuals - they preach agains government intervention, they preach free market - yet they are the first one's to cry for government intervention when their shady house-of-cards falls down. Look at them crying to Congress to step in and bail them out. You should have a BIG problem with that. You should have a big problem with transferring public wealth into wealthy private hands.
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RE: Current banking crisis - 7/23/2008 11:35:58 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 430
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: relady
I'm a Realtor so I've probably seen more of it than you have and i can tell you that it's not as uncommon as you would think. Keep in mind there is practically NO regulation on these guys. There's not even a professional organization you can get them censure through because they don't have to be licensed! It was far more common than a lot of people think.
I've been involved with thousands of home sales transactions as a buyer and seller. And have only "heard" of it happening, never "seen" it happen. So sure it may be "common" but relative to all of the new and refinanced mortgages, in the last few years, it's a small percentage. Which was why I said one can't blame the housing\mortgage collapse on them.
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