|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/26/2008 8:15:44 PM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4290
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Yes, because the men choose not to go. Doesn't matter why; they still choose not to go.
It doesn't matter why?? What other demographic not attending church would elicit that same response? Women? Youth? Minorities? I think not. You've just re-affirmed the problem, stella.
I didn't reaffirm anything. Women who don't go are choosing not to go. Youth are not going because their parents don't go or whatever. Doesn't matter what color you are. And I'm not talking about outreach here; that's an entirely different matter.
There are fewer men in church because men are choosing not to attend. Period. If you want a change, go make one.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/27/2008 7:09:59 PM
|
|
|
Cantwait-2-C-Him
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Sun Shine State" " Mickey"s Home"
Status: offline
|
Fact NOT enough real God loving men willing to stand up and take a stand for their Christ. I Has seen some of the men in church and wonder why they are in that place? From a Christian college just few year ago Most male we had been hurt and was looking but could not fine role module. So far now us mom will have to keep taking our sons to church a dn pray. Home school does help it eoughter, I like to see the number on that ! I believe children need a public school education! Can hide then from life, Jesus did not hide ,he when to the temple for schooling!
_____________________________
" As for Me and My house we will serve the Lord"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/27/2008 8:35:11 PM
|
|
|
RJR_fan
Posts: 719
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: online
|
quote:
Home school does help it eoughter, I like to see the number on that ! I believe children need a public school education! Can hide then from life,
Well, cheer up. Ignorance can be fixed. The happiest men I know are home-schooling fathers, who are raising kids to be fully engaged in their communities. Oh, yes. Home-school kids are more active in their communities when they grow up, politically, socially, and in charitable activities. They also want to raise their kids the same way, more than 90% of the time.
Meanwhile their daddies have the joy of stepping out of the mainstream, going against the tide, and defiantly raising the flag of King Jesus over an age that asserts the irrelevance of the gospel. Now that, my friend, takes more testosterone than going with the status quo!
God is at work. It's incredibly wonderful to be in on what He is up to. It's within our power to light a candle -- and that's a lot more fun than cursing the darkness!
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/27/2008 8:57:26 PM
|
|
|
Neeva_Candida
Posts: 119
Joined: 7/26/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
An older wiser Christian man should guide a younger Christian man as to how to walk by the Holy Spirit, how to draw wisdom from God, how to love his wife and children, how to lead in his home, and how to resist the influence and corruption of the world. Instead most churches tell both men to shut up, sit down, and do what they are told. Most churches are systems of control and regulation they seem almost designed to quench the relationships where Christians could minister to each other.
The Family Integrated Church model seems to address some of these issue.
~Neeva
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 9:46:46 AM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1806
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
I agree mentoring is one aspect of church that rarely happens. Thankfully our church is well balanced with the numbers for men and women. I also think that the stress and cares of life, providing for your family etc has a lot of people stretched to the point church is the last thing on their list. Sunday mornings is often seen as their only "down time" so they would rather sleep and then go to the golf course than be up early for church.
Maybe if there was a 3:00 p.m. worship service it would help?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 9:51:32 AM
|
|
|
kernsfamily
Posts: 1347
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
Where are the men?
That is a most excellent question. We have a mega church here in town that touts they target MEN and that is their main focus. The problem is, they are seriously lacking men to lead their small groups. However, there seems to be a plethora of women willing to step in. Makes one wonder, doesn't it, just where ARE the men?
I would like to see the men step up and lead, and I would gladly support and encourage them. With the exception of the single moms group I attend, I want a man to lead study groups I go to. I believe men should be the spiritual leaders. JMHO
Well, I can give you a partial answer as to "where the men are"....
at our church, there are "Small Groups/Bible Studies" for Men, Women and some "co-ed".....THIS FALL there are 35 bible studies offered for women.....and, about 15 for men (a couple in the day for "senior adults", but primarily evening studies)......hmmmm.....
then, I look at the times.....there are SEVERAL of the women's bible studies that are offered on Tuesday mornings....and Wednesday mornings (9-11:30)...those morning bible studies for women are VERY HIGHLY attended...my wife is usually in one in the fall & the spring....and, even the few evening ones start at 6:30 (that is about the earliest I get home in the evening from work)
so, with my commute, Iam away from the house from 6:30am-6:30pm.....M-F.....supporting my family......so, the "choice" would be, spending what little time I do have at home with my kids, OR, spend some of that time at a bible study at church...(I have already "outsourced" the lawn care chores, as I see spending half of a saturday doing the yard an incredible waste of time)...
A plethora of women have the TIME to do the bible studies and other things at church....men are at work supporting those women (and their children) while they are doing such things.....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 10:01:09 AM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4290
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Funny...I used to go to a church that had those morning bible studies for women and guess where I was? AT WORK! There was nothing for women in the evening. <shrugs>
I don't see what anything has to do with anything else.
Everyone should be able to make it to the church building at least once or twice a week--for an actual service and one other activity. If one isn't willing to do that, then one shouldn't complain that there are no men. If every man in your church showed up every Monday night for bible study, would you? If so, why would that make a difference?
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 10:34:22 AM
|
|
|
kernsfamily
Posts: 1347
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
|
quote:
If one isn't willing to do that, then one shouldn't complain that there are no men. If every man in your church showed up every Monday night for bible study, would you? If so, why would that make a difference?
it's not that men aren't WILLING to do that......it's the ABILITY to do so.....(an evening with men at bible study....or spend the evening with my kids, and the relatively little time I have with them, since I am the sole provider of our household)
Every man in church make it for a bible study? Hmmm......there is a Friday morning men's bible study at 6:30 am, which is attended by 700-800 guys a week..still a small number of men in relation to the size of the church.....I would certainly go to it if I worked much closer to home. But, by 6:30, i am on the freeway headed west to Fort Worth....
quote:
Funny...I used to go to a church that had those morning bible studies for women and guess where I was? AT WORK! There was nothing for women in the evening. <shrugs>
Our church, while offering a massive list of bible studies for women on Tuesday AND Wednesday mornings (VERY highly attended), also offers a number of studies for women on Tuesday evenings, as well.
< Message edited by kernsfamily -- 7/28/2008 10:41:19 AM >
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 10:58:52 AM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4290
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
If one isn't willing to do that, then one shouldn't complain that there are no men. If every man in your church showed up every Monday night for bible study, would you? If so, why would that make a difference?
it's not that men aren't WILLING to do that......it's the ABILITY to do so.....(an evening with men at bible study....or spend the evening with my kids, and the relatively little time I have with them, since I am the sole provider of our household)
You have the ability to go. You choose to stay home with your kids. Excellent example. Where are the men? Choosing to do something else. That is the answer to the question.
quote:
Every man in church make it for a bible study? Hmmm......there is a Friday morning men's bible study at 6:30 am, which is attended by 700-800 guys a week..still a small number of men in relation to the size of the church.....I would certainly go to it if I worked much closer to home. But, by 6:30, i am on the freeway headed west to Fort Worth....
No--every man attending a bible study during a time you can attend. Would you be more likely to go or not?
quote:
quote:
Funny...I used to go to a church that had those morning bible studies for women and guess where I was? AT WORK! There was nothing for women in the evening. <shrugs>
Our church, while offering a massive list of bible studies for women on Tuesday AND Wednesday mornings (VERY highly attended), also offers a number of studies for women on Tuesday evenings, as well.
The point was, mine didn't offer an evening bible study...therefore, I couldn't go. The point is that if there had been an evening study, it would have been on me to choose to attend or not. I could have gone to church or I could have stayed home and complained that there was only one bible study for women at night.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 12:00:59 PM
|
|
|
kernsfamily
Posts: 1347
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
|
quote:
You have the ability to go. You choose to stay home with your kids. Excellent example. Where are the men? Choosing to do something else. That is the answer to the question.
right....many, like me, simply choosing to be home with their kids and family.....a pretty darn wise choice, if you ask me.....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 12:13:40 PM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4290
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I'm not criticizing your choice to stay home with your family. I'm simply saying it is a choice you make. Therefore, the answer to the question "Where are the men?" is that they are choosing to do something else, noble or otherwise.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 1:13:50 PM
|
|
|
kernsfamily
Posts: 1347
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm not criticizing your choice to stay home with your family. I'm simply saying it is a choice you make. Therefore, the answer to the question "Where are the men?" is that they are choosing to do something else, noble or otherwise.
ok...sounds good...women TYPICALLY, have more "freedom" to CHOOSE, if they want to, to participate in a bible study than men do. (not ALL women have that freedom, but, more women than men do...since, they do have the freedom to, and aren't typically tied down to a job across town).....perhaps my church is "weird" (in fact, I know it's "out of the ordinary"), but "stay at home moms" are more the "rule" than the "exception".....and, it was because of that fact that we realized that MY wife could be a SAHM.....looking around at all of the friends we had, and all SAHMs, and we just said, "If they can do it, so can we"....(we had heard all our adult lives, that two-incomes is a "necessity" to get by....so you may as well get used to it).....and, believe me, no one "goes without" because the husband is the "sole provider", either.....
so, there ya go.
as far as sunday mornings....i think I mentioned earlier, sunday morning is a time when there are ALOT of men at church.....wives are almost always accompanied by their husbands (unless sick, out of town on business, etc..etc..)....it's rare to see a wife without the husband, as I had this topic in mind yesterday while at church....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 1:38:57 PM
|
|
|
Cantwait-2-C-Him
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Sun Shine State" " Mickey"s Home"
Status: offline
|
OK in some home men are working long hours /long drives etc so we as women can stay home. so why are we now asking our men father etc to leave the home to attend so many thing at church i believe a strong christian man can be the father he needs to be by spending time with his son/daughter than sitting at some place in a bible study,( Christian men show love.pations.teach their children etc as example) As for me as, a mother .wife I will work pt so my Hushband will have to make these choices I enjoy having more time with him if i work pt time and the kids and i enjoy a more relaxed happy father. man in the house we can go to church once week and be a family ! A home is the care of the family is equally share between a man and A woman, in a marriage,As the children got older we shared the activitites of after school/youth group. so one was alwys involed. So where is all the men Many may be working. some relaxing with the family . Maybe if we as women would do more than just ask question , Our men would have nore time and want to come to chruch,
_____________________________
" As for Me and My house we will serve the Lord"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/28/2008 1:59:22 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4287
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
|
Where are the men? 
Probably following other godly men who may or may not be a part of your church.
If you're missing the men in your church, then ask them why. I agree it is a choice (good or bad, justified or not...a choice is just that).
My husband asks men all the time two questions:
Why do you think more men are not connected in the church?
What would it take to get more men connected outside of Easter and Christmas?
He doesn't ask about coming to church or attending a study - he's asking about being connected with other men in a relationship that ensures transparency, accountability, authentic love and having some fun with "guy" stuff.
Men need authentic godly men in their lives.
Women need authentic godly women in their lives.
We all need more Jesus in our lives.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/29/2008 1:10:16 PM
|
|
|
Cantwait-2-C-Him
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Sun Shine State" " Mickey"s Home"
Status: offline
|
well said! the reason are>>>>
_____________________________
" As for Me and My house we will serve the Lord"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 11:41:03 AM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Where are the men?
Probably following other godly men who may or may not be a part of your church.
Not necessarily, or even likely. There are a lot of lone-wolves out there looking for a higher purpose.
quote:
He doesn't ask about coming to church or attending a study - he's asking about being connected with other men in a relationship that ensures transparency, accountability, authentic love and having some fun with "guy" stuff.
Having fun, yes - but he can get that anywhere. Transparency, yes - in the sense of being real. Authentic love, not so much, at least not consciously - I'd say respect (and self respect)that comes from meeting a challenge or higher calling.
RJR fan said it well in post #25
quote:
Men respond to challenges. Our exemplar, the Lord Jesus Christ, had this awesome self-assurance. While reading the Gospel of John in a foreign language, I kept coming across this phrase that could be literally translated, "Listen. I'm telling you this straight ...." Ladies tend to worry about hurting people's feelings. Men thrive on straight talk, frank exchanges of views, vigorous conversations about meaningful subjects.
quote:
Men need authentic godly men in their lives.
Women need authentic godly women in their lives.
We all need more Jesus in our lives.
Well said. I would add that women need godly men and men need godly women. Only problem is, we're short on th godly men.
< Message edited by backrowbaptist -- 7/30/2008 11:49:32 AM >
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 11:45:09 AM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
Islam doesn't have this problem. Food for thought;
Why men flock to Islam
One evening I was speaking to a group in upstate New York. I posed the rhetorical question, “Why do men flock to Islam, while avoiding Christianity?” I didn’t expect an answer, but one woman blurted out, “If Christianity required women to walk behind their husbands and wear burquas, then we’d have a church full of men.”
So is that why Islam is the world’s fastest growing religion? Must a religion oppress women to attract men? Why do men flock to Islam, while avoiding Christianity? I posed this question to David DeMeo, professor of Middle Eastern and Arabic studies at Harvard. I sum up his response this way: Islam is a religion that delivers results for men. Too often, Christianity does not.
Rest of the article - http://www.churchformen.com/eNewsletter%20archives/01March07.html
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 11:51:59 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I'm less concerned about attacting men - which could be accomplished simply by replacing worship & sermons with a large screen HDTV tuned to sports-only channels - than making sure the people attending have met the Savior and are actively involved in ministry within the church and in the community.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 11:52:00 AM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4290
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
According to Professor DiMeo, “Islam is a religion that produces results. Islam promises to give you a family immune from divorce, teen pregnancy, drug and alcohol addiction. The statistics bear this out. A man looking to shepherd his family today notices that Muslim girls don't go around in halter-tops and navel rings and their women don't watch "Desperate Housewives."
“Because Islam delivers what fathers and husbands want for their families, strong men gravitate toward it. Therefore, it becomes male heavy,” DiMeo says.
It also allows men to kill women that don't fall in line. How convenient. 
quote:
So the question for Christianity is this: Can our faith “deliver” for men without oppressing women in the process? I believe it can. Here are some ideas:
1. A clear mission for every church. Most church mission statements are rambling and non-specific. Men are drawn to clarity and brevity. If they’re going to give up their weekend, they want to know why.
Ah yes...corporate worship and bible teaching isn't enough "why."
quote:
2. High moral standards. Men are looking for a church that’s different from the world they see on TV. This is why conservative churches are growing and liberal ones are dying. Few men are drawn to squishy morals. They want a church built on a firm, time-tested bedrock.
Again, Christianity doesn't have enough "bedrock" for a "real man" apparently.
quote:
3. Men need help and backup enforcing morals at home. Children today are bombarded with immoral messages. Men feel powerless against MTV, South Park and the Internet. Churches should train men how to deal with these situations – how to say no to sin in a loving way.
Sounds like the men are wishy washy in their homes. What does that have to do with staying away from church? Guilt?
quote:
4. Men need the support of other men. Most churches offer nothing in the way of men’s ministry or small groups. What a tragedy. Although it’s initially hard to engage men in a small group, once they do get involved, they’re usually hooked. Their faith deepens. Their lives change.
I disagree. I have never attended a church that didn't have a men's ministry or small groups.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 11:54:43 AM
|
|
|
revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
|
I thought I would not have to ay this but here goes. I think a lot of men share backrow's concerns. Sometimes, if the women become hostile and dictatorial in the church, then the menfolk have twochoices, sit don and handle the women and their concerns, or see the membership dwindle. This comes from a pastor who just had to deal withseveral dictatorial women who had a cat fight over VBS napkins. Of course, thatwasnot the underlying issue, but after meeting with Deacons and Elders, and several of the husbands, I think the issue has been dealt wit.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 11:57:14 AM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4290
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
At what point would the church leadership not handle a problem, regardless of the members' gender?
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 1:11:41 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4287
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
|
Islam attracts more men than Christianity because of what reason????
IMO, Islam feeds into the sins of men - pride, arrogance, isolation, idolatry, etc.
IMO, Christianity teaches against those - yes, men struggle, we all do...but the teaching is there and godly men need one another to walk out that teaching.
It's starting to sound like there are actually no valid reasons men are not coming to church...unless you count laziness, not feeling like it and handing over their God-given role to women.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 1:23:13 PM
|
|
|
revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
At what point would the church leadership not handle a problem, regardless of the members' gender?
Sorry Stella, we always strive to handle all issues, but particularly, or at least for me as a Leader, I do try to handle female gender issues with the utmost respect and decency, Just as I do any other issues, and it is not always easy.
Of course, it is never easy to stand still and try to be patient when someone seems to be waiting in dynamic anticipation to pounce, twist words, holler, and make someone feel bad.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 1:48:41 PM
|
|
|
LoyalFriend
Posts: 134
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Islam attracts more men than Christianity because of what reason????
IMO, Islam feeds into the sins of men - pride, arrogance, isolation, idolatry, etc.
IMO, Christianity teaches against those - yes, men struggle, we all do...but the teaching is there and godly men need one another to walk out that teaching.
It's starting to sound like there are actually no valid reasons men are not coming to church...unless you count laziness, not feeling like it and handing over their God-given role to women.
My thinking too.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: where are the men? - 7/30/2008 1:51:08 PM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
stellaluna
It also allows men to kill women that don't fall in line. How convenient.
Convenient for who? What's your point here?
quote:
So the question for Christianity is this: Can our faith “deliver” for men without oppressing women in the process? I believe it can. Here are some ideas:
1. A clear mission for every church. Most church mission statements are rambling and non-specific. Men are drawn to clarity and brevity. If they’re going to give up their weekend, they want to know why.
stellaluna
Ah yes...corporate worship and bible teaching isn't enough "why."
No, it's not enough. The worship and teaching should contribute to a mission or higher purpose.
quote:
2. High moral standards. Men are looking for a church that’s different from the world they see on TV. This is why conservative churches are growing and liberal ones are dying. Few men are drawn to squishy morals. They want a church built on a firm, time-tested bedrock.
stellaluna
Again, Christianity doesn't have enough "bedrock" for a "real man" apparently."
Liberal christianity? No, it doesn't. Now you're getting it.
quote:
3. Men need help and backup enforcing morals at home. Children today are bombarded with immoral messages. Men feel powerless against MTV, South Park and the Internet. Churches should train men how to deal with these situations – how to say no to sin in a loving way.
stellaluna
Sounds like the men are wishy washy in their homes. What does that have to do with staying away from church? Guilt?
They'd be less wishy-washy if they were challenged to be leaders in the home, and had back-up from their churches, instead of silence.
quote:
4. Men need the support of other men. Most churches offer nothing in the way of men’s ministry or small groups. What a tragedy. Although it’s initially hard to engage men in a small group, once they do get involved, they’re usually hooked. Their faith deepens. Their lives change.
stellaluna
I disagree. I have never attended a church that didn't have a men's ministry or small groups.
I'm glad that's been you're experience, stella. That doesn't mean there's not a problem with most other churches.
We can continue to deny the problem and/or use the same tired male-bashing about how it's all the men's fault (which only adds to the problem), or we can acknowledge it and humbly ask God to redeem His men, and to be open to how He can use each of us.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
