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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 9:26:43 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 9954
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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[Rant]I have now read this thread and it makes me sick. Blame is being place on everything and everybody except the culprit.
Call me old fashion, chauvinistic or any other descriptive word that comes to mind but, my Bible teaches men are the head of the household. By God's own design men are supposed to be the spiritual leaders of not only the Church but the home also. That does not mean I try to be a dictator in my house. My wife and I discuss everything. But in the end, according to scripture it is my responsibility.
The problem is the men that are supposed to be in Church and acting as head of the house hold now are men my age. They have been petted, pampered and coddled to the point they are no more than spineless blobs. The solution is for the men of this world to prostrate themselves before God, seek His face, pray for His strength and wisdom and not get up until they have enough backbone to stand up for what is right in the sight of God and accept the responsibility He Himself has placed on them. Until that happens we are going to continue to see women that are forced into the position of being single moms and yes forced into the position of leading their families and the church. I have been in Churches where the women out-number the men 3 to one. If it were not for the women standing there holding hands the Church would fall down. I have been in homes in the same situation. I say God bless the women that are willing to do what a bunch of gutless men won't.
Qtman now steps down from his soapbox.[/Rant]
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 9:40:36 AM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:
Amen!
Amen!!
I wanted to add the quote about going home to all the flowered stuff and drapes. And don't forget the dish of sea shell on the back of the tolet and some of those foul smelling glade air fresheners
Big Amen to landabee
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 2:16:31 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4979
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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I think the bottom line for me is that while there is room for improvement in our churches, it's not a gender problem. We don't need to try to re-focus our efforts to target men--we just need to improve the quality of our churches all around. Both men and women appreciate theologically sound preaching with challenges and a call to action. I've been raised in church, and I've heard some sermons so many times I could preach them myself. It's like a breath of fresh air to hear a sermon on a passage no one has preached on before, and I love it when I actually learn something I didn't already know.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 2:19:47 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
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I agree. We need to target the unsaved most of all.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 3:48:20 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4287
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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I'm tellin' y'all - everything goes back to the garden . . .
Men don't want to be accountable (Lord...the woman YOU gave me)
and women don't want to be "ruled" (Did God really say you shouldn't eat...)
And sin will abound.
simple 
qtman's post was Brrrrilliant!
Men like qtman and armydude who do reproof men to be men should be given a special place in heaven.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 3:55:58 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10648
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
I get that from watching one mainline denomination after another, after embracing feminism and egalitarianism, cave on social issues. Now I see it beginning in evangelical churches.
I see! Everything was just fine and all was right with the world until this egalitarianism entered the picture.
Then that's when all the boys picked up their marbles and went home and all the men stayed.
Egalitarianism? Oh my! We wouldn't want that! Anything but that!
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Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
And great posts everyone! I agree with you all! It's not about male or female; feminine or masculine.
I have to add as well that we need to stop looking at things like this:
male <---------------------------------------------------------------------> female
The fact is, we are all a mix of traits & characteristics and while men may tend to lean more one way, and women may tend to lean more others ways, no where in Scripture does it say that God created us to be polar opposites. The fact is, how I post tends to be viewed as masculine which is why I started including my name in my siggy - too many folks thought I was a guy. On the other hand, if you have a fussy baby, I have "the touch". That's not to say there aren't differences between men and women - but rather those differences are not a check-off list. If you are a man, you will think this way, enjoy doing this, do well at this, struggle with this, etc. If you are a women, you will think this way, enjoy doing this, do well at this, struggle with this, etc.
People want what's real - not what fits the stereotype of our society regarding what men are supposed to be vs. what women are supposed to be. As several of the men here have noted, being a man is not about playing rough and tumble, having "simplified" sermons, and going hunting. If we want men to be men, we need to teach them what it means to be the heads of their homes, what it means to love their wives, what it means to raise up godly children, what it means to be passionate about their King and follow their Lord. That isn't going to happen by going fishing with the guys, watching the superbowl together and taking the flowers out of the sanctuary. I'm not saying those things are bad, but that isn't what is going to build a firm foundation in men's lives.
And we need to be honest that sometimes, living for God means we have to go against the grain and how we are wired. Remember Moses? He wasn't "wired" to be a public speaker - scared him to death and yet what did God call him to do? So, if you have trouble with emotions - let God work in your heart. If you have trouble taking a firm stand - let God work in your heart. If you have trouble being bold - let God work in your heart. Our job isn't to tell God what we should look like, but rather to surrender to God and let Him shape us into a new creation. That goes for men and for women.
~typo~ 
< Message edited by phosadaud -- 8/5/2008 4:17:52 PM >
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 3:57:31 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16935
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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Thank you both for the kind words!
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 4:01:03 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9954
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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Ditt what Dude said.
As for Phosy's post. Preach it sister. I got the AMEN corner covered.
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 10:54:37 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
[Rant]I have now read this thread and it makes me sick. Blame is being place on everything and everybody except the culprit.
Call me old fashion, chauvinistic or any other descriptive word that comes to mind but, my Bible teaches men are the head of the household. By God's own design men are supposed to be the spiritual leaders of not only the Church but the home also. That does not mean I try to be a dictator in my house. My wife and I discuss everything. But in the end, according to scripture it is my responsibility.
The problem is the men that are supposed to be in Church and acting as head of the house hold now are men my age. They have been petted, pampered and coddled to the point they are no more than spineless blobs. The solution is for the men of this world to prostrate themselves before God, seek His face, pray for His strength and wisdom and not get up until they have enough backbone to stand up for what is right in the sight of God and accept the responsibility He Himself has placed on them. Until that happens we are going to continue to see women that are forced into the position of being single moms and yes forced into the position of leading their families and the church. I have been in Churches where the women out-number the men 3 to one. If it were not for the women standing there holding hands the Church would fall down. I have been in homes in the same situation. I say God bless the women that are willing to do what a bunch of gutless men won't.
Qtman now steps down from his soapbox.[/Rant]
Another great summary (rant) of the situation. So, how DO we lead these men to prostrate themselves before God? If we do, will the women now leading the church let go and allow the men to lead?
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 11:22:10 PM
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zmanfan38
Posts: 8505
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: ...for it's root, root, root for the CUBBIES!!!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
[Rant]I have now read this thread and it makes me sick. Blame is being place on everything and everybody except the culprit.
Call me old fashion, chauvinistic or any other descriptive word that comes to mind but, my Bible teaches men are the head of the household. By God's own design men are supposed to be the spiritual leaders of not only the Church but the home also. That does not mean I try to be a dictator in my house. My wife and I discuss everything. But in the end, according to scripture it is my responsibility.
The problem is the men that are supposed to be in Church and acting as head of the house hold now are men my age. They have been petted, pampered and coddled to the point they are no more than spineless blobs. The solution is for the men of this world to prostrate themselves before God, seek His face, pray for His strength and wisdom and not get up until they have enough backbone to stand up for what is right in the sight of God and accept the responsibility He Himself has placed on them. Until that happens we are going to continue to see women that are forced into the position of being single moms and yes forced into the position of leading their families and the church. I have been in Churches where the women out-number the men 3 to one. If it were not for the women standing there holding hands the Church would fall down. I have been in homes in the same situation. I say God bless the women that are willing to do what a bunch of gutless men won't.
Qtman now steps down from his soapbox.[/Rant]
Another great summary (rant) of the situation. So, how DO we lead these men to prostrate themselves before God? If we do, will the women now leading the church let go and allow the men to lead?
Figure out the first part and you'll be in business.
I couldn't possibly speak for all women, but as for the ones I know who are in leadership positions in their churches, the answer to your second part there is Praise The Lord...yes, yes, yes!
_____________________________
«Christi»
tattoo
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RE: where are the men? - 8/5/2008 11:55:35 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2906
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Phosy-nice job on that post.
QT- you and I probably fall on opposite sides in the egalitarian/complentarian debate. Nonetheless, I think you're right about the solution. I think it's still fair to say that women are shouldering more than their fare share in administering the affairs of the church and that men need to be more involved and active in working out their faith. I really like the fact that you gave a big thumbs up to the women now standing in the gap.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 3:07:08 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1784
Status: offline
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quote:
I say God bless the women that are willing to do what a bunch of gutless men won't.
Qtman now steps down from his soapbox.[/Rant]
While ranting against "spineless, gutless" men does give one a chance to vent and let off steam, it is not a solution.
Total honesty demands that women examine themselves simultaneously to understand to what degree they have contributed to the problem. This is by no means a one-sided problem.
Harping on a stereotypical "Men don't want to be held accountable" may certainly boost the egos of some women, but the facts is that men and women can be equally accountable or unaccountable depending upon their character.
From what I have observed, it is the structure and operation of modern churches which has given rise to the "problem" (where it may exist, since this is not a universal problem) of men becoming disinterested in the local church. Furthermore, the invasion of feministic ideas into churches has also undermined the roles of men. Finally, the permeation of churches with humanistic ideas has destroyed the authority of the Word of God. Modern evangelical churches are becoming more and more humanistic and less and less dependent upon the genuine leading of the Holy Spirit.
The real solution is to teach the Word of God, fast and pray, and then put it into practice unflinchingly. Men should be encouraged to take leadership roles in the home and in the church, particularly by their women and the church leadership.
There must be a plurality of elders (not a one-man ministry) and all spiritual gifts must be encouraged constantly. Women should be taught the meaning of submission to their husbands, the meaning and significance of the head covering, and that they are forbidden to preach, teach or take authority in the churches. Women should be encouraged to teach other women by example and precept. The basis of this must be what God has revealed, and not what men have taught.
One could go into numerous other issues which all relate to this subject, but until and unless modern churches go back to what the Bible actually teaches regarding the local church (and break away from their cherished "traditions"), all this male-bashing will amount to nothing but hot air.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 8:59:19 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16935
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
There must be a plurality of elders (not a one-man ministry) and all spiritual gifts must be encouraged constantly. Women should be taught the meaning of submission to their husbands, the meaning and significance of the head covering, and that they are forbidden to preach, teach or take authority in the churches. Women should be encouraged to teach other women by example and precept. The basis of this must be what God has revealed, and not what men have taught.
I have to stop ya right here. Well not literally stop you, but I have to comment on this. As long as men are afraid of women having any authority over them, men will avoid church like the plague. The concept is unbiblical and is based out of fear (the very thing that is cast out by perfect love). I'm not wanting to turn this into a women's role in the church thread especially since we've got one of those, but I had to point this part out.
It's not flowers or frilly stuff that keeps men out of church. It's two things that go hand in hand; fear and pride. Fear that they may have to submit to someone else and pride that tells them they don't need to. Both are straight from the devil himself.
The only thing that will get men into church that aren't there now is to see men that are in church that haven't given up their masculinity in doing so. Believe me, anyone that meets me in person knows that I haven't, and also knows that while I am biblically the head of the household my wife is not my servant. She is my equal.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 9:06:14 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
The only thing that will get men into church that aren't there now is to see men that are in church that haven't given up their masculinity in doing so. Believe me, anyone that meets me in person knows that I haven't, and also knows that while I am biblically the head of the household my wife is not my servant. She is my equal.
That's why I think women have nothing to do with men choosing not to go to church. They may dislike accountability, they may hate not being in control, they may just prefer to be at the beach or on the lake. But it's not because there is a shortage of real men going to church or an over-abundance of women there. God just isn't in their top-ten things of importance.
Men go where men want to be. Take it to the bank.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 9:11:14 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16935
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Men go where men want to be. Take it to the bank.
Now that I can agree with. But that can apply to women too. There are an abundance of both that aren't in church on Sunday morning. Why? I don't think the "feminizing the church" idea is right. I believe it's just an excuse. JMHO.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 9:24:38 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
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Carnality.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 9:35:54 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 9954
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
I say God bless the women that are willing to do what a bunch of gutless men won't.
Qtman now steps down from his soapbox.[/Rant]
quote:
While ranting against "spineless, gutless" men does give one a chance to vent and let off steam, it is not a solution.
You will find I did not say this was the solution in my post. I did in fact state what the solution is.
quote:
Total honesty demands that women examine themselves simultaneously to understand to what degree they have contributed to the problem. This is by no means a one-sided problem.
I agree everyone needs to examine their hearts but i disagree with the last line. THis is a one sided problem.
quote:
Harping on a stereotypical "Men don't want to be held accountable" may certainly boost the egos of some women, but the facts is that men and women can be equally accountable or unaccountable depending upon their character.
In case you didn't notice Qtman is a male and I can assure you nothing I said boost my ego. It saddens my heart to have to admit my gender has strayed so far from what is right.
quote:
From what I have observed, it is the structure and operation of modern churches which has given rise to the "problem" (where it may exist, since this is not a universal problem) of men becoming disinterested in the local church. Furthermore, the invasion of feministic ideas into churches has also undermined the roles of men. Finally, the permeation of churches with humanistic ideas has destroyed the authority of the Word of God. Modern evangelical churches are becoming more and more humanistic and less and less dependent upon the genuine leading of the Holy Spirit.
Go back to my post. None of this would have occured if the men would have discovered their backbone and stood up for what is right and accepted the job God gave them. God gave men the authority but what most men do not understand is He also gave them the responsibility. You can't have one without the other.
quote:
The real solution is to teach the Word of God, fast and pray, and then put it into practice unflinchingly. Men should be encouraged to take leadership roles in the home and in the church, particularly by their women and the church leadership.
On this we are in total agreement. But you still have to deal with the fact men must accept those roles. I can encourage all day long but if they don't accept it I have accomplished nothing.
quote:
There must be a plurality of elders (not a one-man ministry) and all spiritual gifts must be encouraged constantly. Women should be taught the meaning of submission to their husbands, the meaning and significance of the head covering, and that they are forbidden to preach, teach or take authority in the churches. Women should be encouraged to teach other women by example and precept. The basis of this must be what God has revealed, and not what men have taught.
As I astated in my post I am the head of my household. I am not a dictator. My wife and I discuss things and make a decision. However, according to my position as defined by scripture I will be held responsible fro not leading my house along the right path. Not my wife but me. It is not her job. I believe most women fully uderstand their role. Unfortunately it is us men that have forced them to take on the role they are now in. If we were filling those roles there would be nor need for them to do so. In fact if we men were doing our job then the women could not fill those roles.
quote:
One could go into numerous other issues which all relate to this subject, but until and unless modern churches go back to what the Bible actually teaches regarding the local church (and break away from their cherished "traditions"), all this male-bashing will amount to nothing but hot air.
You will find I am not one to pull punches on topics like this. I call it like I see it. It is not intended as male bashing. I just believe in calling right, right and wrong, wrong.
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: where are the men? - 8/6/2008 3:07:47 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10648
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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I'm not going to dig into a certain post because there are one stop threads for some of that and since I'm a woman, posters of that mindset wouldn't want to hear what I have to say anyway. However, I want to say one thing:
A leader is someone who doesn't make excuses for their behavior. It's called personal responsibility. If I don't go to church, fellowship with believers or follow Christ, I have no one to blame but myself.
And if I blame someone else or some other gender or some other social thing, then what I am really saying is that THEY are my leader and I have abdicated my God-given responsibility.
The early church had a lot of excuses to not do what God called them to do. The Apostles even more. Do you see any excuses coming from their mouths though? Nope, in fact they tell us that man (the generic man here) is without excuse.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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