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[Poll]
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Is the church building a sacred or holy place?
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| Yes it is. secular activities should not go on there |
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| no, just a building. Use it for whatever is not sinful. |
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| I don't like secular in the sanctuary, but that is just my opinon. |
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| other |
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Total Votes : 42
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(last vote on : 8/16/2008 8:34:59 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:02:15 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
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quote:
It was bringing to mind a picture of allowing disreputable behavior to take place, and I do not think that should be allowed. I think the Church should always be an example and shy away from allowing that type of perception to form. KWIM?
Completely agree, church should be all about God and completely for God.
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:04:49 PM
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DougHorton
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
My initial perception was excess. I cannot accept that in a church.
Yes, excess in any human activity usually is sinful.
Let's remember that even the Temple had inner and outer courts. On that basis, churches through the ages have had a central sanctuary as well as other facilities. It is the sanctuary that is specifically holy, but even activities in the "outer courts" should be acceptable to the Lord.
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You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:10:49 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
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Where two or three are gathered in His name He is there.
That can be anywhere. When we talk about Jesus with christian friends, He is there. The place does not have to be "holy" for Jesus to be there.
Sacred? No, only God can be sacred, not objects...ya know that idol commandment.
Respect? Oh yeah. When we gather in his name, every other word coming from our mouths should not be swear words....we should not meet together and talk about Jesus and get hammered doing it.
When we meet to worship God in all the forms woirship takes we should do so in respect to our God. We should not enter the sancturary gossiping. We should not have a running dialouge with our pewmate throughout the sermon.
If you are not paying attention to the sermon, that is IMHO, disrespectful and exhibiting very poor manners. If you leave candy wrappers and spill your soda, you are disrespectful.
Its not about the sancturary being sacred...its about simple respect and manners.
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:11:12 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16891
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Wes,
You don't drink beer at church? You don't play guitars? These activities could easily take place in God's house. Of course, if it was going overboard that would be wrong. Drink beer? Never seen it in church. Then again, on Sunday morning, most of the people I know of get themselves all "purtied up" as my dad would say and go to the church building, treating it with the respect that they should have for their own personal temple of the Holy Spirit.quote:
How about using the sanctuary for concerts of classical music? Seen it. I love classical music, so it was awesome for me.quote:
Performances of the public schools? Seen'em.quote:
Or a covered dish dinner? Had one at my church this past weekend...
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:26:52 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Sacred? No, only God can be sacred, not objects...ya know that idol commandment.
Wanna find out how sacred objects can be draw a mustache on a picture that is said to be Christ and watch what happens...
quote:
If you are not paying attention to the sermon, that is IMHO, disrespectful and exhibiting very poor manners. If you leave candy wrappers and spill your soda, you are disrespectful.
How well can one pay attention while eating and drinking?
john
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:49:05 PM
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shemaromans
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I think it comes down to two questions: What's the purpose of our activities? What's the condition of our hearts?
I know of some unbelievers who have visited churches that obviously look like the "traditional" church stereotype. Stainglass, crosses, etc. Very reverent in appearance. These friends observed many believers as not having loving hearts even though the building presented a warm, reverent environment which obviously intended to praise God.
I know also of some unbelievers (who are now believers) who visited churches that look more like the "modern" version of the church. No crosses to be seen, tons of technology, etc. These friends observed believers who genuinely displayed the fruit (i.e., hypocrisy wasn't readily observable).
The point I'm trying to make with those examples is that it's the people within the church building that worship or unsuccessfully worship God based upon the conditions of their hearts. Maintaining a building solely for sacred purposes does not guarantee that the people within the building will behave in a holy manner that pleases God. (It reminds me of the whitewashed tombs in Matthew 23). It seems like God will be more pleased and glorified if we revere him with our thoughts and actions more than by what we build and maintain for him.
We aren't holy by nature. It's the Holy Spirit presence within us that's holy. As such, we don't make the sanctuary holy. It's God's presence that makes it holy.
God's presence makes it holy because he's holy. He's holy wherever he is and at all times. He's also sovereign, just, faithful, righteous, merciful...And there's nothing that we can do to modify or affect the characteristics and abilities of God.
What we can do is to lovingly reach out to others who need to know Jesus. If we have the facilities to sponsor activities that will attract these people, then we should use them (as long as the activities don't run counter to God's will). What would God consider more holy--that we love one another or that we create idols?
What kind of people would we be if we closed our doors to those in need based upon our human attempts at providing God a holy environment?
* I apologize if I come across as preachy. The dentist attacked my gums today, and I could possibly be alleviating my pain through this rant. 
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 8:51:15 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3873
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quote:
How well can one pay attention while eating and drinking?
When you eat dinner with friends, do they have to repeat their words after each bite and sip that you take? 
I drink coffee during the service every Sunday, and I have no trouble paying attention. In fact, it actually helps me to concentrate.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 9:23:01 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Maintaining a building solely for sacred purposes does not guarantee that the people within the building will behave in a holy manner that pleases God.
This is very true.
quote:
It seems like God will be more pleased and glorified if we revere him with our thoughts and actions more than by what we build and maintain for him.
This is an excellent thought.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 9:24:57 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16891
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Maintaining a building solely for sacred purposes does not guarantee that the people within the building will behave in a holy manner that pleases God.
This is very true.
quote:
It seems like God will be more pleased and glorified if we revere him with our thoughts and actions more than by what we build and maintain for him.
This is an excellent thought.
Agreed
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No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/24/2008 10:13:31 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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I voted "other" - I've got very mixed feelings on the issue.
I really liked Qtman's response on this. It's a good perspective. That said, there's still something inside me that wants to see SOMETHING set apart for God and for God alone. I don't know if it's upbringing, culture, or what. I would like it to be something set apart, yet I know that in the end it's all just bricks and sticks.
In the end, I think the rational side of me says "It's just a building" while my background, childhood, culture etc all are saying "it's more than just that."
I don't know for sure which side I should listen to.
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/25/2008 8:12:54 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
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Could it be that some buildings are dedicated to the worship of God, and are off limits to the secular, while others are multipurpose buidlings where worship and other meetings would be appropriate?
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/25/2008 10:51:19 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4278
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
1 Corinthians 11:23ff is often quoted before serving the Lord's Supper/Communion/Eucharist, but perhaps verse 22 should be read before a covered dish supper or the youth get doughnuts and pizza:
22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.
Paul certainly restricted the eating to the bread and wine used in worship.
I thought those verses were talking about the people using the bread and wine to eat as though it were supper and not with the "remembrance" due. Paul was telling them to stuff themselves at home and not on the "communion" elements.
huh...interesting 
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/25/2008 12:32:46 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3873
Joined: 3/30/2007
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quote:
I don't understand, though, why a person would be able to concentrate in one setting and not in the other. Either you can't concentrate/multitask or you can (or sometimes you can and sometimes you can't depending upon if you're a moody concentrator ).
quote:
One thing I learned in sales training about how to influence people is to take your client to dinner. Your client's brain will be lax because blood and oxygen is flowing to the stomach and other pleasurable chemicals are flowing into the brain. Meanwhile, you don't eat, or eat a light salad to be polite, keeping your mind sharp so that you can manipulate the client.
It sounds like we have something to learn from the secular world.
That's a generalization that doesn't apply to everyone. As I said before--for me--I concentrate better during the sermon with a beverage available.
quote:
1 Corinthians 11:23ff is often quoted before serving the Lord's Supper/Communion/Eucharist, but perhaps verse 22 should be read before a covered dish supper or the youth get doughnuts and pizza:
22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.
Paul certainly restricted the eating to the bread and wine used in worship.
Here's the entire paragraph:
17In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval. 20When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, 21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
Paul's writing about the Lord's Supper, not about sermons. How do you determine appropriate behavior for sermons from that?
_____________________________
"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/25/2008 2:05:15 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4093
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
I was raised that it is "God's House" and nothing unholy should go on in there. No buying or selling in the sanctuary. nada. IMO, that is a consequence of the unbiblical doctrine called "replacement theology" that promotes the false idea that the church is now Israel. Since Israel had a holy tabernacle and then a temple in Jerusalem, the local congregational house becomes confused with "HaBeit Adonai," the House of the Lord, i.e. the Temple.
NOT SO.
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RE: Is the church building a sacred or holy place? - 7/25/2008 2:10:43 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9474
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Could you elaborate on that, Dave? Cause I'm pretty sure I've swallowed some replacement theology.
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