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Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 11:54:01 AM
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JesusFan
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A few weeks ago, one of my cousins, who is a Christian, sent me this e-mail about Barack Obama. I’d been pretty optimistic about him as a candidate, but one particular part of this e-mail, shown below, sounded particularly ominous to me as a Christian.
But right now everyone is talking about how eloquent of a speaker he is and - yes - they're talking about his race. Those should never be the factors on which we base our choice for president. Mr. Obama's radical agenda sets him far outside the American mainstream, to the left of Mrs. Clinton.
It's time to talk about the real Barack Obama. In an election of firsts, let's first make sure we elect the person who is qualified to be our president in a nuclear age during a global civilizational war.
Subject: Kind of scary, wouldn't you think? Remember--God is good, and is in time, on time every time
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is:
The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA??
I STRONGLY URGE each one of you to repost this as many times as you can! Each opportunity that you have to send it to a friend or media outlet...do it! If you think I am crazy,. I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate.
I forwarded the e-mail to a few people, one of whom was my friend Linda, who is a Catholic but doesn't completely take the bible seriously. A week or so later, I got the following reply back from Linda:
75% of this email is someone's stated opinion. Are you simply going to believe everything you read? I'm quite tired of all the Obama bashing and the anti-Christ accusations. People need to wake up and start reading for themselves about the potential candidates rather than being manipulated into even possibly thinking that Obama is a terrorist. Keep in mind that the people writing and disseminating this information want YOU, the reader, to be intimidated by these fear tactics. This is exactly what they (the far right) want you to believe. These are desparate scare tactics, and they are relentless in their bashing. They will stop at nothing. Remember this is nasty politics!!
I will continue to try to educate myself on these candidates, and I will trust in MY ability to make my OWN decisions and draw my OWN conclusions. I will NOT be fear-driven and manipulated by these monumental waste of time emails.
P.S. Just because Obama happens to "fit the bill" regarding statistics on age, race, etc., etc. does not necessarily make it fact. By the way, do you know how long this particular email has been floating around? Quite a while!
I then felt guilty for forwarding it to her, because frankly, she does have a point. This COULD very well be "just someone's stated opinion", and I usually don't take much stock in e-mails that "bash" people and I usually avoid political-type material like the plague. But, the "anti-Christ" angle, like I said earlier, made me a little queasy, since I DO take the bible seriously and I know that these things are going to come to pass, and believe me, I'd rather not witness them first-hand! On the other hand, I have to agree that just because Obama "fits the bill" doesn't make it fact. It could be a coincidence. Do you think I was wrong to send this to her? Perhaps this wasn't the most effective way to "witness" to someone. I want to respond to her e-mail, but I don't know what would be the right words to say.
How do I make someone who believes in God but doesn't believe that Satan is real and thinks that the bible is just a book written by humans and therefore fallible, understand that things of God are more important than things of man, and spiritual matters are more important than politics?
Should I stick to my guns, or should I concede to her that she may have a valid point?
Let me know what you think, and please pray for me about this.
_____________________________
"God helps those who know they are helpless."
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 12:03:30 PM
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evryknee
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Personally, I'd concede and apologize. Though her points were valid, her tone seemed angry...so this may need to be discussed to make peace with her so that you might be a witness at a later point. And politics would probably be off the table for discussions for a long while.
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 12:53:57 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4110
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ .... will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, Have your cousin give you chapter and verse on this. That will prove difficult because there is no such passage. Islam and muslims are never mentioned anywhere in scripture. This email is just a bunch of hooey. Your friend was right to call you on it. I think the 75% percent part was generous. I am not sure there is even 10% that is fact.
Politcs is not an effective witnessing tool. Someone in your friend's position has to have God reveal His truth to them. You cannot do it. All you can do is pray. God has His own time and way to convince someone.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 1:31:40 PM
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JesusFan
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Thank you all for your advice! What you say makes sense. Next time, I'll pray BEFORE I make a decision to send something (or say something) to someone. And I'll go back to my original position of just avoiding any e-mails that look or sound political!
_____________________________
"God helps those who know they are helpless."
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 2:27:06 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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Be very cautious about forwarding e-mails.
Barack Hussein Obame is a great speech giver with prompters, etc.; but an absolute horrid speaker, with all the pauses, uuummms, and aaaahhhs; one cannot understand what his true opinion is; and maybe that is the purpose.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 2:39:14 PM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 325
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From: Belfast, N. Ireland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JesusFan
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is:
The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA??
As DaveW said, this is false.
What is true, is that there will be an Anti-Christ emerge one day, and no amount of e-mails to influence peoples voting habits will prevent it. Revelation tells us of things to come. Not things which, if we do not do x or y will happen.
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 2:55:35 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SinnerSaved
quote:
ORIGINAL: JesusFan
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is:
The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA??
As DaveW said, this is false.
What is true, is that there will be an Anti-Christ emerge one day, and no amount of e-mails to influence peoples voting habits will prevent it. Revelation tells us of things to come. Not things which, if we do not do x or y will happen.
Jeeeezzzz, take it to the conspiracy thread.
thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 3:07:45 PM
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daisies4u
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quote:
And I'll go back to my original position of just avoiding any e-mails that look or sound political!
Or that bash another person, I hope.
Regardless of you think or feel, the people you send those types of e-mail may disagree with you. I get disgruntled with people who "trash" other people. While your opinion of that person may not be good, it is only that....your opinion. Mine may differ. (By you, I don't mean you personally.)
My sister despises a certain political figure and will "dog" him up one side and down the other. She knows that I agree with her to a certain extent, but I still have a high opinion of this person. And I really don't like listening to her rant and rave about how stupid he is or how much she dislikes him. I have tried changing the subject. I have asked her not to do this in front of me, but she still does. It is like she is trying to force her opinion on me.
Sorry, I am ranting, now aren't I? Still, I would be careful about sending e-mails that criticize someone when you don't know how the other person feels about that person or the issue.
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/25/2008 6:28:49 PM
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musicboss11
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I to think that you should apologize. Telling people that so-and-so is the anti-christ usually isn't the most effective way to witness to them. Usually before I think about forwarding an email I check it out on websites like truthorfiction.com If you go to that web site, and search for ombama antichrist, that email will pop up.
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/26/2008 9:43:33 PM
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Neeva_Candida
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quote:
How do I make someone who believes in God but doesn't believe that Satan is real and thinks that the bible is just a book written by humans and therefore fallible, understand that things of God are more important than things of man, and spiritual matters are more important than politics?
It seems that your friends most dire need at the moment is salvation. Whether or not they favor politics over the things of God will matter very little if they aren't saved. The unsaved person will never truly favor God's way anyway.
The way you describe this person's beliefs portray someone that is likely unsaved. They need to recognize their situation and take steps to remedy it. Only when they have recognized their sinful state, repented and asked God to forgive them will they even be in a position to care about truly important spiritual matters.
~Neeva
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/28/2008 3:40:24 PM
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JesusFan
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quote:
The way you describe this person's beliefs portray someone that is likely unsaved. They need to recognize their situation and take steps to remedy it. Only when they have recognized their sinful state, repented and asked God to forgive them will they even be in a position to care about truly important spiritual matters.
My friend is convinced that going to church and doing good deeds can get her into heaven. I've tried to explain that it's not what we do, but accepting Christ as our savior and trusting HIM to save us, is what gets us into heaven. To which she replies, "I'm not worried about myself." And she DOES believe in Jesus, but I guess that's as far as it goes with her. In my experience, it's very difficult to witness to Catholics.
_____________________________
"God helps those who know they are helpless."
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/28/2008 3:45:18 PM
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JesusFan
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quote:
I to think that you should apologize. Telling people that so-and-so is the anti-christ usually isn't the most effective way to witness to them. Usually before I think about forwarding an email I check it out on websites like truthorfiction.com If you go to that web site, and search for ombama antichrist, that email will pop up.
I know I should. I'm just uncertain of how I should word it. Would it be "copping out" to simply say "Sorry about sending that e-mail, let's not ever discuss it again," or apologize and then explain why it caused me concern? If I do the second option, I really am at a loss for words to explain my concerns to her!
_____________________________
"God helps those who know they are helpless."
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/28/2008 3:52:55 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is:
JesusFan,
I do not listen to anyone who refers to The Book of Revelations.
There is no such book.
Nor do I believe we win anyone to Christ by talking issues. That just leads to endless arguments.
The best way to witness is to talk about sin, your own sin, and how wonderful it is to know the grace of God as found in Jesus.
My thoughts. 
Edited to add: DD, best answer!
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/28/2008 4:29:07 PM
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Neeva_Candida
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Man, I want a refund. I got a defective Bible. Mine has a chapter called Revelations.
~Neeva
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/28/2008 10:14:03 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 719
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Islam and muslims are never mentioned anywhere in scripture. This email is just a bunch of hooey. Your friend was right to call you on it. I think the 75% percent part was generous. I am not sure there is even 10% that is fact.
Those of us who are old enough to remember growing up under the shadow of "the Bomb" have already seen God do one amazing miracle, in so kindly discrediting soviet Communism, and removing the probability of nuclear annihilation. And we have to wonder -- which enemy will God discredit next? Our smug secularism? Or Islam?
I'm hedging my bets -- home schooling our kids so that they don't go down with that sinking ship, and reaching out to Muslim students just in case God suddenly opens their eyes.
Think about it -- if a billion of our fellow humans suddenly turned to us for real-world and eternal answers, would we be ready? Folks, learning Turkish, or Farsi, or Arabic, or Malay, is a long-range project, with a long lead-time. There's no time like the present to start. God has brought thousands of bright and curious young people to our doorsteps. People eager to earn an American degree, and make American friends.
Be a friend. Show an interest in their culture and language. Prepare yourself to be in on God's wonderful plans for this generation. Involve your children -- let your Muslim friends see, in your life, that Hollywood is lying. Americans do care about God and family.
True, it might be more fun to paralyze oneself with fear of imaginary hob-goblins -- but does this kind of fatuous fear-mongering REALLY bring glory to our King?
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/28/2008 10:52:17 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
Man, I want a refund. I got a defective Bible. Mine has a chapter called Revelations.
~Neeva
Look again, Neeva. The last book of the Bible is called The Revelation to John. Anytime someone adds an 's' to the end of the name of the book, I disregard what they have to say because it is obvious they haven't spent enough time in scripture. If your Bible has a book of Revelations it is defective. And you deserve a refund. 
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/29/2008 7:51:17 AM
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JesusFan
Posts: 95
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quote:
Look again, Neeva. The last book of the Bible is called The Revelation to John. Anytime someone adds an 's' to the end of the name of the book, I disregard what they have to say because it is obvious they haven't spent enough time in scripture. If your Bible has a book of Revelations it is defective. And you deserve a refund.
OOOOH, Lifeloved, how tricky! I didn't notice the "s" or think of the fact that there is actually no "s" at the end of the name of that book. I thought you actually didn't believe in the book of Revelation, with or without an "s", and I was kinda wondering about you!
_____________________________
"God helps those who know they are helpless."
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/29/2008 8:20:45 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4110
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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Actually my NASB says "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" quoting from the first verse.
I do believe some older printings of the KJV put the "s" on Revelation, and an "s" at the end of each Psalm.
It drives me nuts when I hear someone say "please turn to Psalms 45...."
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Dilemma!! - 7/30/2008 2:20:28 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 719
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Especially if you are going to send an email mass mailing, why wouldn't you KNOW what you are referring to??? I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I think it is being wise.
As a technical writer, I trip all too often over my desire to reach a grand conclusion. This passion induces a kind of tunnel-vision that militates against excellence, and my work comes back from editors bleeding with red ink and caustic comments. Hasty premature conclusions generate all kinds of stupid mistakes.
Expand my plight to the cosmic scale, and we can see why certain forms of apocalyptic endeavor have made American evangelical Christians look awfully stupid to the watching world for nearly a century and a half. I get in a hurry to finish the job, get lazy, take short-cuts, do shoddy work, and risk my opportunities. Folks get tired of having to clean up my messes behind me, so I go from one short-term contract to another for decade after decade ...
I think our God deserves better from me, and from us as His people. I am praying for increased faithfulness in the hum-drum, routine, nit-picking details. The God I serve, after all, is aware of each sparrow that falls ...
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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