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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 7/31/2008 9:41:18 PM
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pbaribeault
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Ooops! I think you might have to disregard some of that 'keeping your own cool' stuff. I had your situation cross-referenced with the mom in the '6 year old temper problem' thread. I didn't mean to jump to the conclusion that you loose your cool towards the child. You haven't given any indication that that's a problem for you. I apologize.
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 7/31/2008 9:56:49 PM
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zoebob
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Since it has come up in this thread and others I have a question. I think that "telling off" might mean something different in USA than in England and Australia. I get the impression that to "tell someone off" in those countries would be like scolding/lecturing a child. HEre to tell someone off is to yell at someone in anger and with a bad attitude. In general you wouldn't think of a parent telling of their child. However, a child who is being rebellious and angry might tell off his parents.
As to the OP, I think kids do need to learn to obey what we tell them to do. We shouldn't have to sugar coat everything we need them to do. At 5-6 they need to learn to obey because we are the parents and know better than them. After a situation is diffused and they think there is a legitimate reason why they should have been allowed to do what they want they can bring it up to their parents in a respectful manner to explain their viewpoint or ask for clarification. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to tell a 5--6 year old to "come here," "don't do X," "do X" without having to make it sound like you are begging them or sweet tlak them into doing it.
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 7/31/2008 10:15:04 PM
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pbaribeault
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It is, however, possible to get the child accustomed to compliance without going head-to-head over every issue. It's very important to teach obedience... but maybe 3 hard lessons a day would be the max for me. Beyond that risks the foundation of the relationship, detracts from the parenting of other children, and is just way too much stress. If we want a child who co-operates as well as obeys, some of the incidents can be used to teach co-operative models of interaction with authority, rather than all of them being command-and-response.
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 7/31/2008 10:33:36 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I get the impression that to "tell someone off" in those countries would be like scolding/lecturing a child. HEre to tell someone off is to yell at someone in anger and with a bad attitude. In general you wouldn't think of a parent telling of their child.
You're absolutely right - here in the UK it means "to reprimand". So it's usually used for parents, teachers, and other authority figures. But not just in direct relation to children. If, say, I parked my car on a bus stop, a police officer or traffic warden might come up to me and tell me off about it (hopefully instead of giving me a ticket/fine!).
quote:
As to the OP, I think kids do need to learn to obey what we tell them to do. We shouldn't have to sugar coat everything we need them to do. At 5-6 they need to learn to obey because we are the parents and know better than them....I don't think it's unreasonable at all to tell a 5--6 year old to "come here," "don't do X," "do X" without having to make it sound like you are begging them or sweet tlak them into doing it.
I would NEVER advocate the latter. That isn't what I am talking about at all. And making them obey, or sweettalking/begging are not the only two options. There is a time and a place for children obeying right away. But it can be wearing and counterproductive if giving orders and rules (and enforcing them) is overdone. They can get overloaded - making meltdowns more likely.
And there is often room for other ways of achieving the end that you want.
For example, I want my child to put his shoes on ready for going out. I can either say "Put your shoes on now" or I can say "After you've put your shoes on, would you like to go and find a car to take with you?" In other words, I am not making the "order" the focus, thereby making it less likely that we will clash. Another example could be to do with putting toys away. I can either say "Put your toys away now" or I can say "I'm going to set this time - see if you can put your toys away before it goes ding!" or "look, here's your toy box - see if you can make a big crash every time you put one of your cars in it?"
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 8/1/2008 6:56:28 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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I feel like there is a lot to reply to...so I'll start and see where we get from there...
I totally understand what you mean about non-direct ways of getting him to do things. I have done this many times, and it works with him. But I also think that he needs to obey because he's supposed to. When mommy says do this, no matter if I do it indirectly, directly, make it into a game or whatnot, he should obey. The "I want him to get his shoes on now, so I'll say this...You can either hop or walk to your room and get your shoes. When you get them in here, I will help you get them on" only goes so far. I can't be doing that with him 10 years from now. Also, with situations where he needs to use an "inside voice" yet doesn't, how can I make that into an indirect thing? I have tried the "Sweetie, you are being too loud" approach many times, and it doesn't work either. So, yes, it does work, but it has limits as well.
Yes, I agree with you about what the verse in Proverbs says...and yes, my son is disciplined, but obviously not in the right way because he doesn't ACT like he's disciplined. He acts a lot like other children that I have met that did get their way in every situation. I have a cousin who was undisciplined, and as much as I told myself I wasn't going to have a child like her, I have one...and it's not because he gets what he wants or doesn't get punishment for what he does wrong... So, in essense, he is still making me out to be a fool, and his father too, because he doesn't represent that he's had discipline in his life. He acts like one who has not. I guess our form of discipline is not right for him... It doesn't work, obviously. We have tried so many different things, giving each one time to work, and it would for a while, and then he'd get worse than before...we'd keep pushing through hoping it was just a phase, and then ended up changing things again because it was so obvious that this was not affecting him either.
More later...have to go for now.
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Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 8/1/2008 7:38:17 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting
I totally understand what you mean about non-direct ways of getting him to do things. I have done this many times, and it works with him. But I also think that he needs to obey because he's supposed to.
That will come, if you are both persistent and consistent, and reasonable.
quote:
When mommy says do this, no matter if I do it indirectly, directly, make it into a game or whatnot, he should obey. The "I want him to get his shoes on now, so I'll say this...You can either hop or walk to your room and get your shoes. When you get them in here, I will help you get them on" only goes so far. I can't be doing that with him 10 years from now.
You won't need to be. They grow up, they mature, they understand better.
quote:
Also, with situations where he needs to use an "inside voice" yet doesn't, how can I make that into an indirect thing? I have tried the "Sweetie, you are being too loud" approach many times, and it doesn't work either.
I didn't suggest saying "Sweetie, you are being too loud". I advocated saying what I wanted him to do, not what I didn't want him to do. Like "Sweetie see how quietly you can whisper! I bet you can't whisper so quietly that I can't hear you!"
quote:
Yes, I agree with you about what the verse in Proverbs says...and yes, my son is disciplined, but obviously not in the right way because he doesn't ACT like he's disciplined.
He is a small child. Discipline takes YEARS. It is not reasonable or fair to expect your son to be fully disciplined at age 5. You're expecting too much of him and of yourself.
quote:
So, in essense, he is still making me out to be a fool, and his father too, because he doesn't represent that he's had discipline in his life. He acts like one who has not. I guess our form of discipline is not right for him...
Sorry but you're still missing the point. Discipline is a gradual thing, not a "quick fix, you've arrived" type of thing. There are many lessons to learn, and their little minds can only take in so much at a time. It's a process, it takes time.
He's not making you and your dh out to be a fool, he is just being a normal child. It is important that you try and stop taking this so personally. You said in a previous post that you weren't concerned about being embarrassed, yet here you are again making an issue of how you think his behaviour makes you appear.
VIW, if a parent keeps focussing on what their children should do but doesn't do, shouldn't do but does do, they risk giving their child a very negative view of themselves. I remember one teen that my dh and I worked with - he described himself as his parent's "failed project". That is how he had seen himself since he was a small child - someone who never did anything right, a failure.
I have a couple of other verses for you: Colossians 3 v 21 and Ephesians 6 v 4.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 8/1/2008 11:07:51 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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Thank you Manda. I will look up the verses that you recommended...just not now because it's late, and I'm tired. I know that I sometimes overreact and make things more dramatic than they need to be. That's one thing that I definitely have to stop with him because it really sets him off and makes him close down. When things are good and he's happy, he's very loving, very sensitive, and an all around great little guy. I love him dearly. (I'm crying...) I just want so much for him to be "good." When we are in church, I can sit there with my other two, and although dd is having problems teething right now, for the most part, the others sit and listen and do what they are told to do. He, however, is disruptive and often has to be taken out because others would not be able to hear the sermon if he were not removed from the room. When we go grocery shopping, he is always telling me-not asking me-what he wants, and if we don't get that certain thing, he gets angry with me and has a little out of control spell there in the store...swinging at me, talking back to me, etc, etc. I guess I just feel like nothing is improving...and I'm putting so much energy toward him with no results...  Thanks for all of your advice. I will work on being more calm with him, and being both persistent and consistent.
I have thought a lot about things that you have said. He was a little over a year old when his brother was born, and then 20 months after he was born, he had a little sister. If you ask me if any of them are jealous of the others, I would only have one answer...that ds1 seems to have those feelings toward his brother and sister. We haven't really spent much time with any of them one-on-one. Although the others don't seem to be reacting negatively, I'm sure alone time would be a positive thing. It's difficult with three though... It's not like I can have alone time with ds1 while dh has alone time with ds2...or vice versa, and stick dd into the equations as well... But I am going to try to work out something where each one of them does something special with each of us one evening...whether it be a short walk around the block, quiet time in their room reading a book, a trip to the library or store, etc, etc...something that doesn't have to be costly, but can still be fun for the children. Let's see...each of us with each of them would equal out to six...six days...so, I guess that could work. I really want that. When I think of it, I see possibilities...and I want to realize those...
Thanks again for advice, for encouragement, and for making me think.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 8/1/2008 11:24:04 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6051
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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(((( Hilary ))))
quote:
I know that I sometimes overreact and make things more dramatic than they need to be. That's one thing that I definitely have to stop with him because it really sets him off and makes him close down.
One thing that it's good to teach our children is a sense of proportion - ie how much certain things matter. If we go overboard with everything they do wrong, they aren't likely to get that. Although some particular things might really get our goat, in the big scheme of things they may actually not be that bad.
Another thing is to affirm them for the things they do right. One book I read said that for every thing we reprimand them for, we need to find four things to affirm them for. That way a child gets a sense of balance, an overall good feeling about himself. I even resorted to "Thank you Jonathan for not throwing your car at you sister; you did really well" when I was desperate, lol. Even the simplest things like "Thank you for saying that nicely" and "Thank you for being gracious when you helped me" etc. I can think of some more example for you if that will help.
quote:
I just want so much for him to be "good."
Just because he is strong-willed and defiant doesn't mean he isn't "good". It just means he doesn't keep anything hidden - you know exactly where he's at. Whereas your "good" children sitting nice and quietly could be plotting and concealing all sorts of mischevious thoughts. Strong-willed children can be a handful, but passive compliant children can be sneaky and manipulative.
Have you read anything by Dr. James Dobson on childcare?
quote:
I have thought a lot about things that you have said. He was a little over a year old when his brother was born, and then 20 months after he was born, he had a little sister. If you ask me if any of them are jealous of the others, I would only have one answer...that ds1 seems to have those feelings toward his brother and sister.
This is what I was wondering. I read somewhere once that it's the first child that has the most adapting to do and who needs the most support, because, for a time, they had you all to themselves - but then suddenly had to share you. Whereas the second and third etc child gets used to having to share you because it's all they've ever known.
quote:
But I am going to try to work out something where each one of them does something special with each of us one evening...whether it be a short walk around the block, quiet time in their room reading a book, a trip to the library or store, etc, etc...something that doesn't have to be costly, but can still be fun for the children. Let's see...each of us with each of them would equal out to six...six days...so, I guess that could work. I really want that. When I think of it, I see possibilities...and I want to realize those...
This sounds a great idea! You could maybe give it a name - even just something simple like "Special Time". Even just 5-10 minutes a day when they have you all to themselves would be a good thing. And especially for your eldest.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 8/3/2008 10:45:28 PM
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djac99
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Manda and pbaribeault:
Thank you for taking the time to post such wise advice. This thread has been immeasureably helpful to me.
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RE: Having a Godly attitude... - 8/7/2008 12:10:23 AM
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TammyIsBlessed
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It's helped me to remember that I need to act instead of react. I also need to "jump in" sooner instead of waiting till I'm totally frustrated.
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I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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