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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 5:31:48 AM
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Sadey
Posts: 529
Joined: 7/25/2007
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quote:
Skeptical, I asked again but brought up the specific issues that were hard for her last time, like 'would you still support me if you had to work full time, make more money than me, never have weekends free, and make other, various sacrifices on a routine basis?' This is where she paused, turned her head away from me for quite some time, and began crying.
What in the world were you thinking? She finally opens up to you and you start in on her again? You're a little like a battering ram aren't you?
You know you are a very exasperating young man. The only other suggestion I have is for you to go back and reread all of your posts and see how you must come across to your wife. I hope that can give you some new insight into this mess.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 10:34:57 AM
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hnt
Posts: 529
Joined: 4/11/2005
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To me you are very confusing, and I think you missed the point. Once again you are concentrating on YOU YOU YOU! Its NOT about just you! Most people have had once instant - if not more - where they bit off more than they could chew. She admitted that she was naive, immature, etc when she made the decision to agree with you about ministry. She bit off more than she could chew. That isn't lying! It sounds like she did give it her all even at the point of KNOWING it was more than she could handle. You said that you would have married her even if she had been truthful with herself, and now that she is being truthful because she sees things clearer - you call her a liar.
You speak about walls, but you are building them for her! You are so absorbed in this path that you are leaving her behind! So she is MORE enlightened about what that path is, and it sounds likes she doesn't think she can do it. I'm not going to justify her NOT telling you her fears before this, but if your reaction is any indication she may have felt you were not going to listen to it anyway. YOU have a path, and if you don't get that path you allow yourself to be totally beaten down. SOunds like you were not truthful either. You should have told her that your path was the most important thing in life, and if you don't get it you are going to turn into someone she can't relate to. The bible states that you are to love the Lord first, and then your wife. THEN comes your 'path'. Seems to me your path is coming first, and then your wife.
SO what are you going to do if she tells you the truth? You know what that truth is. Are you going to hold this 'lie' over her head forever? She isn't ready for the life you speak about, and that is plain as the nose on your face. What are you going to do about it? Do you seriously think you are the only one breaking into peices over this? She wailed in your arms, and was as truthful as she felt safe enough to be. She opened her heart to you, and you jamed the path in there. SHe can't talk to you and will get defensive everytime if you continue to do that. Drop the working fulltime ministry. Its NOT going to happen at this point - she can't do it.
You need to come to her level, and uplift her - empathize with her - treat her with love with no sniff of 'liar' in your conversation. You aren't going to pick her brain without it! I'm sorry she wasn't mature enough to handle your path. I'm sorry she was naive enough to believe she could do it for YOU! People that are naive and immature do those things, and that doesn't make them a liar. It makes them immature and naive. She gave you the truth, and you just don't like it. Now you are beating her over the head with it, and disrespecting her by calling her a liar. You said you would have married her anyway - if the truth came to light (if she wasn't immature and naive at the time and realized things)...and look at how you react. What is that called?
You want the truth. It was handed to you. WHat are you going to do with it?
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 11:08:46 AM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 613
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Once again you are concentrating on YOU YOU YOU! Its NOT about just you!
In a nutshell, that's what I was going to say. Drifter, I think your biggest problem is that you are self-focused. If you are loving your wife as Christ loved the Church then you need to be encouraging and uplifting your wife, not complaining about all of her "issues". God does not complain about our issues. He forgives us and offers us unconditional love. That is what you are instructed to do with your wife. Perhaps you should repent of your selfishness and unChristlike attitudes and ask God to help you love your wife like He wants you to.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 1:43:37 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1056
Joined: 4/29/2005
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So, she misled you. Either cold-blooded intentional lie, or she was fooling herself to think that it really wouldn’t be so difficult (biting off more than she could chew). Either way, you seem to have not yet decided if you will forgive her for that act.
I did not say that you need to see the motives behind her lie and then excuse the behaviour. Her behaviour was clearly wrong. You need to acknowledge that wrongness and your own being-wronged-ness (betrayal, pain and all) and forgive.
She hears your question as a threat. An ultimatum. Stop asking it. You know the answer.
Even if her words are lying, her actions are telling you the truth. Accept the ‘honesty’ of her clear demonstration that she can’t manage the lifestyle of supporting a full time over-committed minister… at least for now. Why does she have to say it if it’s already clear to you?
She doesn’t belive that you would love, want or keep her if she were honest with you is because she has seen the outcome of your disappointment for the last few years. Your actions speak clearly to her to. If you want to encourage her honesty, simply welcome it, and over time she will get the picture.
You don’t have to do anything about her refusal to seek help over these issues. She will learn a sense of security through being in a secure relationship over time. Your insistence on the idea of doing something, to her, for her, with her, or in support of her simply repeats over and over again, louder and louder, “The way you are is not good enough for me.” You want her to change. Nobody can learn to feel secure about who they are while they live with someone who clearly wants them to become different and better.
I’m going to need more information about how her insecurity causes you to “walk on eggshells”. As long as you are not going to leave her, and she knows that, what other actions are required in order for you to live alongside an insecure wife?
If you want something to do, try some of the practical stuff, not the core stuff, just the stuff that will make your life together more pleasant and help you both to feel secure and strong enough to tackle the core issues over time.
I think you too have bit off more than you can chew and are trying to make her responsible for it. You want a high-commitment-level ministry and a marriage. That’s too much. So, you think, maybe if my marriage took very little time or effort, that would be great. So you ask your fiancée, “Can you be the kind of wife that will be fine with little or no time or effort on my part?” And she says yes, so then it’s her fault that the relationship floundered while you were trusting her word and not giving it the time and effort it needed.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 5:23:21 PM
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drifter17
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/29/2008
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Okay. This will probably be my last post on here.
To clarify, I did not call my wife a liar to her face, or even implied it to her. I shared those thoughts on here with you all because this whole situation is really upsetting me. During the entire conversation with my wife, I was sweet, understanding, and caring to her. As I said, I told her to take all the time in the world to figure this out. No pressure; I'll be here whenever for whatever. As I said, it was a sweet time. EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I SHARED WAS SOLELY ON THIS BOARD, AND NOT WITH MY WIFE. Heck, the whole point for me even talking about the whole forgiveness concept in the first place was to update her on my path of conquering my depression. She took the conversation there all on her own. So once again, I did not share any of these negative thoughts with her. This is the reason why I'm on here- to find accountability with my thoughts and feelings. So if you don't like what I'm feeling, that's fine. But don't judge and attack my character because you misunderstood what I was sharing. So much for innocent until proven guilty. Every issue, feeling, and action of hers is validated and understood, yet none of mine are. Is it because she's not here to defend herself? Or is it just the fact that I am a man and everyone automatically sympathizes with the wife? Or is it because I was once a pastor and should know better than all this? So much for being loved and accepted for who I am within my own religious community.
And in regards to why I asked her the question when I already knew the answer, I didn't ask her that more pointed question for me, but for her. Think about it. How manipulative and frustrating is it to hear that she loves certain things about me or will support me in certain areas, but then act the exact opposite? And I'm supposed to just magically understand what she's really thinking and wanting and cater to that? Imagine if I just took what she said at face value and got right back into ministry and once again she broke her word. Where would we be then? And if you want to sit there and tell me that it's all my fault and that she's fine and I need to understand and support her I call B.S. She is an adult, grown woman who is going back on her word and it breaks my heart. I am sorry that I am HUMAN and have feelings and a heart that is capable of being hurt and even broken. I am not a robot, like some of you seem to want me to be. Just because I was once a pastor does not mean that I am not human.
And even still, in regards to all this, there's no honesty, no trust, and no communication in my marriage. And when I try to talk to her about these things,even just to clarify, she just shuts down. But, of course, this is all because I'm selfish. I agree that it takes two to make a marriage, but it doesn't take two to break one. I am sitting here willing to communicate and understand what she's feeling, what she thinks, and what she really wants so I can better provide it, but there's no communication on her part. So what am I supposed to do? And if I try to talk to her about this and how it's affecting our relationship, she just crawls further back into herself. So way to possibly progress any of this. So I am a prisoner in my own marriage. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned having to walk on egg shells. No matter what it is, now matter how small or insignificant, she will take it all personally and use it as ammunition to push me even further back. This is the main reason why I didn't press anything that night, even though I wanted to. I just told her that I'm here and will continue to do so if she ever wants to talk about it, DESPITE just being lied to my face! But yeah, I'm just a big jerk.
And yes, I already know the answer to the question I asked. The thing is that SHE DOESN'T. She doesn't want to be herself, she wants to be who she thinks I want. And THAT'S what is killing our relationship. I have told her time after time that all I want is for her to be herself. That is all I want. I don't want her to cater to my every whim nor pretend to be someone she's not. I don't want her to feel obligated to be who she thinks I want her to be. I know this may seem a little contradictory to some of what I've shared earlier, but life is full of contradictions and just because someone has an issue, that doesn't mean that it is a universal issue that permeates every action a person does. I'd have been more than happy to explain further, but its useless now, really. Man, I was looking forward to coming on today to further clarify what I shared last night. So much for that.
So Sadey, there was no battering ram. And the things I am saying on here in regards to my situation are not what I am saying to my wife. I am sharing my deepest thoughts and feelings on here to, once again, get accountability. Please do not assume that I am being this intense to my wife in regards to all of these things. It is quite the opposite. Now, I am neither saying I am perfect nor a non-intense person. This obviously isn't the case. But I am trying my best to be my best to my wife while still struggling with everything on the inside.
And for those of you disagreeing with about her lying to me, please re-read my last post. I mean, she told me that she would support me one second, then the next she is scared to answer because she's scared of saying what she's really thinking - NO. How is that not lying?
Also to clarify, I said that I WOULD NOT have married her if she would have told me no way back when. I would NOT have married her. Yet, once again, this is NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE TOLD MY WIFE. And I did not place any walls around her that night - it was all on her end. And, once again, admitting to immaturity in the past isn't lying. But telling me that she's changed and can now do what she first promised me she would do, only to backtrack her statement IS lying. So HNT, I can't even take anything you said in your post seriously because you've grossly misunderstood me for whatever reason and altered the facts of the situation.
Once again, I did NOT tell her she's a liar! This is a thought that I have solely shared on here. It seems to me that just because I tend to think a little more about situations you all make me out to be a bad guy. I'm sorry cookie cutter marital fixes aren't applying to my situation. If that were the case, I wouldn't need to have come here seeking help, would I? I am aware that my marriage and I are a huge exception to what most are used to and to what most consider common. Now, I am not expecting for the exception to become the rule. I was just hoping for the exception to be seen as just that, an exception. Just because me and my situation are hard for you to understand, should you just go on the offensive and make accusations, or could you have asked more probing questions before so harshly judging me? How could I have possibly offended some of you by merely talking about my own situation and looking for help within it? It just boggles my mind.
Because my situation doesn't fit into some of your advice molds, I'm a bad guy and there's something wrong with me. Now, I am not saying this for me, but for you. It's obvious that this wasn't a good idea to share my innermost thoughts and concerns here. I'm sorry I didn't come on here altering my thoughts, feelings, and stories to make myself seem like a more swell guy. I'm sorry I didn't dress everything up in a nice, pretty bow. I'm sorry I'm not using excessive 'christianese' or fluffing what is said so it becomes easier to swallow and understand. I know I'm not an innocent victim; I have never once said this. I'm just trying my hardest to be honest. And once again, look where it got me.
So if you all feel the need to make me a bad guy, and attack me, that's fine. But its not doing me nor my situation any good. So if you think that I am just selfish and not interested in any advice, once again re-read this entire thread. I've picked out the pieces that apply to me and have really meditated on them. But none of that matters because everyone thinks I called my wife a liar to her face. So if the consensus is that I'm selfish and immature, I'm not going to fight it anymore. I came here looking for help, but got eaten alive. Once again, my post last night was written WAY late and I was having trouble wording what I wanted to say. I even mentioned that in the end. But that doesn't seem to matter to any of you.
So congratulations, you've chased off one of your own when they really needed you. Go Christianity.
And pbaribeault, thank you for everything. You saw through it all and got to the heart of my issues. It was a huge relief to just feel understood. I am still wresting with the forgiveness. I mean, I know I should and I know that I will. But I just want to make sure that when I admit it, I can stand by it. With where I'm at right now, I can't. I can say I forgive her, but tomorrow or the next day or the next week when I get depressed and dwell on everything, my attitude could change. It's just hard for me to forgive something that is still going on and hasn't been resolved. I know that shouldn't matter, but, once again, I'm just being honest. I'm not going to say things are fine when they are not, nor that I understand and can grasp something that I can't. But it appears this honesty has black-listed me.
Farewell.
< Message edited by drifter17 -- 8/9/2008 5:39:10 PM >
_____________________________
I have been pushed past my breaking point. But instead of exploding, I have chosen to implode, since there is no one to help pick up the pieces.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 6:37:12 PM
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Sadey
Posts: 529
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline
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I'm sorry you feel that way.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/9/2008 8:41:56 PM
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ChristsDisciple
Posts: 1
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Drifter17,
I just sent you a PM.
_____________________________
All of our labor is in prayer, everything else is the fruit of that labor.
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RE: Marital Advice - Help - 8/18/2008 8:02:40 PM
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somanyqs
Posts: 1
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline
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I really don't know what to say. I think that sometimes when two very faithful people are in a relationship it can be hard to communicate some of our needs because in a sense, we pray for those needs, which is the best thing one can do. But we forget to vocalize those needs to eachother and to a third party who shares your faith if the lines of communication have been inactive for a long time or someone just isn't addressing it.
I am in the same boat, I married someone much older, love him, but just found out ( through him) that he doesn't feel close to me other than when we are intimate, which is really upsetting, beucause while this is soooo very important, communication and support in the marriage in other areas are as well. I pray, I have vocalized and now we are going to marriage counseling for the first time on Thursday, I am leaving it up to God, what happens is what his plan is.
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