|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 8:58:35 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Would not condemm the person if they happen use the word God, Jesus, Jehovah and Lord.
What about using allah, when knowingly its is the name of a pagan god?
Actually I believe 'allah' is the word used in the Arabic versions of the bible for God (but it might be just 'Al'). 'Allah' is simply the Arabic word for God, like 'El' or 'Elohim' is the Hebrew word for God. (and Dios is the Spanish word for God)
< Message edited by benelchi -- 7/31/2008 9:05:55 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 9:28:14 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 361
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Would not condemm the person if they happen use the word God, Jesus, Jehovah and Lord.
What about using allah, when knowingly its is the name of a pagan god?
Actually I believe 'allah' is the word used in the Arabic versions of the bible for God (but it might be just 'Al'). 'Allah' is simply the Arabic word for God, like 'El' or 'Elohim' is the Hebrew word for God. (and Dios is the Spanish word for God)
Hi benelchi
Thanks for your shairng in the hebraic background of the words. i am very into the hebraic understanding of the scriptures.
But in the case of allah: Yes, the arabic or arabic based tarnslations uses allah for el and more. The point that the original translators use it in place of Adonai as well makes it a bit gut wrenching to accept.
There are other words for elohim in many languages. However, they use allah as a proper noun to replace Adonai or YHWH in their translations. This IMO makes it a blasphmy. 
The name allah is actually the proper name of a pagan god worshipped by the roaming tribes in arabia before mohammed founded islam. He would have thought it easiest to continue using this name for his god, if not anything but to unite the tribes wnd spread his religion.
Here is an intersting take on the matter. It appears theres a another generic word for god. See what you make of it.... http://www.arabbible.com/t-Allah.aspx
i am interestd in this cos i am in country which uses this pagan name in the place of Adonai. IMO its hiding truths which are prohetically connected to the Lord Jesus in the right usage of the Lords name.
Shalom
< Message edited by prophet -- 7/31/2008 9:34:36 PM >
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 9:35:17 PM
|
|
|
MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
|
I am not saying you are wrong, however there seems to be a problem. My scripture is based upon the masoretic text and the word HaYah is used on line 14 in Exodus 3.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Try studying the chart: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
I did find a page on that site that you might want to take a look at, it is http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/37_lesson03.html
On this site when they explain verb tenses, they use the example of ÷öø, here is what they said:
"When the verb is written as à÷öø the subject of the verb is also first person - "I" but, the tense is now "imperfect tense," an incomplete action and can be translated as "I am cutting a tree" (an action that has begun but not yet completed) or "I will cut a tree" (an action that has not yet begun)."
==============
Notice in the example above that the root was qoph-tsadi-resh(÷öø), and the imperfect is formed by prefixing the aleph so that it becomes aleph-qoph-tsadi-resh (à÷öø). Remeber that Hebrew reads right to left, so the prefix aleph is on the right.
This is identical to the example I gave you. i.e. in HYH the root is Hey-Yod-Hey, and the first person imperfect is formed by prefixing an aleph so it that it becomes aleph-hey-yod-hey. (or transliterated in to English eheyeh).
The site you referenced confirms my previous post:
quote:
If you check the text, you will find that ever single reference, INCLUDING the references you gave in Ex. 3:13-15, is 'eheyeh' i.e. the first person qal imperfect conjugation of HYH. I chose the references that I did because they were all absolutely identical in the Hebrew!
Again in the Hebrew bible the verb HYH is conjugated, prefixed, and/or declined, about 120 different ways. I chose these specific verses because the they all use HYH identically!
EVEN THOUGH YOU OBVIOUSLY CANNOT READ HEBREW, YOU CAN STILL CHECK THIS OUT. JUST DO A LETTER BY LETTER COMPARISON; THE WORD IS SPELLED ALEPH-HEY-YOD-HEY IN EACH AND EVERY EXAMPLE I GAVE YOU!
As I pointed out previously there are some errors on that site, but on the whole it is not too bad. You might want to take your own and advice and study a little on that site. There are better resource, but this one would be helpful in correcting many of your errors.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 10:04:53 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
I am not saying you are wrong, however there seems to be a problem. My scripture is based upon the masoretic text and the word HaYah is used on line 14 in Exodus 3.
I have several copies of the Masoretic text; that is the standard Hebrew text used in almost every Hebrew Bible. The Masortic text and every other Hebrew text that I am aware of all conjugate HYH in the first person singular qal imperfect ('eheyeh') in this verse.
Again I would recommend you take a look on that website you referenced; the page I linked to demonstrates how Hebrew verbs are conjugated in the qal construction. The root letters are color coded so they can be easily identified. Here is that link again:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/37_lesson03.html
You need to realize that every single conjugation on that chart will have the exact same Strong's number in an exhaustive concordance because they only reference the root; however, a quick check of the text confirm that many different conjugations are referenced by that same number.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 10:18:10 PM
|
|
|
MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
|
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not a Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El.
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Would not condemm the person if they happen use the word God, Jesus, Jehovah and Lord.
What about using allah, when knowingly its is the name of a pagan god?
Actually I believe 'allah' is the word used in the Arabic versions of the bible for God (but it might be just 'Al'). 'Allah' is simply the Arabic word for God, like 'El' or 'Elohim' is the Hebrew word for God. (and Dios is the Spanish word for God)
Hi benelchi
Thanks for your shairng in the hebraic background of the words. i am very into the hebraic understanding of the scriptures.
But in the case of allah: Yes, the arabic or arabic based tarnslations uses allah for el and more. The point that the original translators use it in place of Adonai as well makes it a bit gut wrenching to accept.
There are other words for elohim in many languages. However, they use allah as a proper noun to replace Adonai or YHWH in their translations. This IMO makes it a blasphmy.
The name allah is actually the proper name of a pagan god worshipped by the roaming tribes in arabia before mohammed founded islam. He would have thought it easiest to continue using this name for his god, if not anything but to unite the tribes wnd spread his religion.
Here is an intersting take on the matter. It appears theres a another generic word for god. See what you make of it.... http://www.arabbible.com/t-Allah.aspx
i am interestd in this cos i am in country which uses this pagan name in the place of Adonai. IMO its hiding truths which are prohetically connected to the Lord Jesus in the right usage of the Lords name.
Shalom
_____________________________
Truth is made known by the reason of the facts.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 10:20:33 PM
|
|
|
MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
|
I deleted this double post which happened when some one at this website tried to block me from posting. Or at least that is what my computer said.
< Message edited by MichaelTheeArchAngel -- 7/31/2008 10:35:22 PM >
_____________________________
Truth is made known by the reason of the facts.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 10:32:55 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not a Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El.
No, it is actually a derivative of the semitic 'El' meaning God. Here is what I got from wikipedia.
"The term Allāh is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos).[4] Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[3] The corresponding Aramaic form is אלהא ˀĔlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ˀAlâhâ or ˀĀlōho in Syriac.[10]
The contraction of al- and ʾilāh in forming the term Allāh ("the god", masculine form) parallels the contraction of al- and ʾilāha in forming the term Allāt ("the goddess", feminine form).[11]"
Note the similarities of אלהא(Allāh) and of אלהים(Elohim) when written in Hebrew.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 10:43:23 PM
|
|
|
MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
|
Benelchi, I think you should add studying Biblical Archaeology to you list. Alilah: The/god/ascends. Al/il/ah.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not a Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El.
No, it is actually a derivative of the semitic 'El' meaning God. Here is what I got from wikipedia.
"The term Allāh is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos).[4] Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[3] The corresponding Aramaic form is אלהא ˀĔlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ˀAlâhâ or ˀĀlōho in Syriac.[10]
The contraction of al- and ʾilāh in forming the term Allāh ("the god", masculine form) parallels the contraction of al- and ʾilāha in forming the term Allāt ("the goddess", feminine form).[11]"
Note the similarities of אלהא(Allāh) and of אלהים(Elohim) when written in Hebrew.
_____________________________
Truth is made known by the reason of the facts.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 11:10:37 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Benelchi, I think you should add studying Biblical Archaeology to you list. Alilah: The/god/ascends. Al/il/ah.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not a Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El.
No, it is actually a derivative of the semitic 'El' meaning God. Here is what I got from wikipedia.
"The term Allāh is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos).[4] Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[3] The corresponding Aramaic form is אלהא ˀĔlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ˀAlâhâ or ˀĀlōho in Syriac.[10]
The contraction of al- and ʾilāh in forming the term Allāh ("the god", masculine form) parallels the contraction of al- and ʾilāha in forming the term Allāt ("the goddess", feminine form).[11]"
Note the similarities of אלהא(Allāh) and of אלהים(Elohim) when written in Hebrew.
I have actually taken archeology classes in college, and I have been to digs in Israel. What are your credentials?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 11:45:14 PM
|
|
|
MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
I have actually taken archeology classes in college, and I have been to digs in Israel. What are your credentials?
I have been to lots of digs myself, but have you taken part in the diging? I am not going to give any credentials of any kind. You can believe what ever you want. I have done some of my own digs and I find that it can be fun and interesting.
_____________________________
Truth is made known by the reason of the facts.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 11:51:58 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
I have actually taken archeology classes in college, and I have been to digs in Israel. What are your credentials?
I have been to lots of digs myself, but have you taken part in the diging?
Yes.
quote:
I am not going to give any credentials of any kind. You can believe what ever you want.
Based on the answers you have given in this thread, I must assume you are not a very reliable source for information about biblical languages and archeology.
quote:
I have done some of my own digs and I find that it can be fun and interesting.
Yes it is, but it is also a lot of hard work.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/1/2008 7:50:27 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5739
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Here is a bible reference. Quotes are from the NIV.
Mike, while that may have been a nice exercise at cut & paste for you and making nice splashes of color in unrelated places, none of it has a thing to do with 7 Thunders in which you favor.
The number 7, representing completion, is used throughout scripture. The only time I remember it in relation to thunders is in Revelation 10:4, where the Apostle John was forbidden to reveal what he saw. I'm going to have to assume you saw the statement somewhere and was impressed but you really don't understand like all this pretense at knowing Hebrew better than real scholars.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/1/2008 4:59:40 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 1884
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
Oh, as for debate - if someone wants to have his own original brand of teaching,and not being accused of going cult i would recomment a lovely career of a Rabbi.
Those legally have the practical right to (essentially,in real life) private interpretation of anything. PRogressive/Reformed as a result of such liberalism dont have unified theology on almost nothing..
That job is a sweet racket! Perks are numerous. You might become a latent alcoholic, but that;s the occupational hazard, as well as screaming their lungs out week-old boys you got to deal with... But then most leave you alone all the way until they need you to perform their wedding ceremony...
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/2/2008 12:57:02 AM
|
|
|
MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
|
If the scripture that I quoted does not add up for you, then it is not meant for you. And as for my post on Wikipedia, I agree that it needs to be polished. Im looking over the source code for that website to see what works there. As for the Hebrew language would you not agree that it is better to go to the source. That being a scholar in Hebrew and Archaeology. There are a great many Hebrew scholars who say God's name is different things; well they can't all be right. I have been searching for God,s correct name for twelve years and it is just a matter of giving a better explaination. I will consult some experts to see what I can squeeze out of them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Here is a bible reference. Quotes are from the NIV.
Mike, while that may have been a nice exercise at cut & paste for you and making nice splashes of color in unrelated places, none of it has a thing to do with 7 Thunders in which you favor.
The number 7, representing completion, is used throughout scripture. The only time I remember it in relation to thunders is in Revelation 10:4, where the Apostle John was forbidden to reveal what he saw. I'm going to have to assume you saw the statement somewhere and was impressed but you really don't understand like all this pretense at knowing Hebrew better than real scholars.
_____________________________
Truth is made known by the reason of the facts.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/3/2008 7:42:49 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 361
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
Benelchi
How many times is Adonai used to sub YHWH in the hebrew scriptures?
In your opinion, is there a clear distinction between YHWH and elohim?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/3/2008 7:52:30 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Benelchi
How many times is Adonai used to sub YHWH in the hebrew scriptures?
In your opinion, is there a clear distinction between YHWH and elohim?
If Adonai is substituted for YHWH in the Hebrew scriptures, we wouldn't know unless we had an older copy of the Hebrew text that didn't have that substitution, and I am unaware of any known substitutions of this kind in the Hebrew scriptures. However, the Jews have verbally made this substitution when reading the Hebrew text before the first century, but this is something only done verbally.
YHWH always refers to the one true God of the bible; elohim refers to the YHWH when used in the majestic plural sense, but can mean gods in the normal plural sense.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/3/2008 7:55:45 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 788
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: online
|
Here's my take and I haven't read through the whole thread yet...my name is what it is whether you speak English, Spanish. It's pronounced in the English language. A Spanish person would say it in the English version if the want to get it right. Do I believe YAH is petty and will not answer if I call Him God or LORD? No! I believe He knows and understands the infirmities of my ingnorance and will instruct me in His time on how I should properly address Him. I don't think if I call Him in my Americanized tongue He would not hear my prayers. Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/3/2008 8:16:35 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 361
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Benelchi
How many times is Adonai used to sub YHWH in the hebrew scriptures?
In your opinion, is there a clear distinction between YHWH and elohim?
If Adonai is substituted for YHWH in the Hebrew scriptures, we wouldn't know unless we had an older copy of the Hebrew text that didn't have that substitution, and I am unaware of any known substitutions of this kind in the Hebrew scriptures. However, the Jews have verbally made this substitution when reading the Hebrew text before the first century, but this is something only done verbally.
YHWH always refers to the one true God of the bible; elohim refers to the YHWH when used in the majestic plural sense, but can mean gods in the normal plural sense.
As i undertand, YHWH is a name given by the Lord Himself, no less. However, elohim is a common noun.
eg
Deut. 10:17 "YHVH your God is God of gods and Lord of lords".
Hebrew: "Ki YHVH Eloheichem Hoe Elohei ha'elohim v'adonei ha'adonim"
How many times is YHWH used? My understanding is that the 7,000 times that Lord is shown in our english language, YHWH should have been used.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/3/2008 9:01:19 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 2124
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Benelchi
How many times is Adonai used to sub YHWH in the hebrew scriptures?
In your opinion, is there a clear distinction between YHWH and elohim?
If Adonai is substituted for YHWH in the Hebrew scriptures, we wouldn't know unless we had an older copy of the Hebrew text that didn't have that substitution, and I am unaware of any known substitutions of this kind in the Hebrew scriptures. However, the Jews have verbally made this substitution when reading the Hebrew text before the first century, but this is something only done verbally.
YHWH always refers to the one true God of the bible; elohim refers to the YHWH when used in the majestic plural sense, but can mean gods in the normal plural sense.
As i undertand, YHWH is a name given by the Lord Himself, no less. However, elohim is a common noun.
eg
Deut. 10:17 "YHVH your God is God of gods and Lord of lords".
Hebrew: "Ki YHVH Eloheichem Hoe Elohei ha'elohim v'adonei ha'adonim"
How many times is YHWH used? My understanding is that the 7,000 times that Lord is shown in our english language, YHWH should have been used.
Quick note:
Hebrew should be: "Ki YHVH Eloheychem Hu (sounds like 'who') Elohey ha'elohim va'adoney ha'adonim"
==========
It is true that Lord is substituted for YHVH/YHWH in almost all instances in most English translations; this was actually done historically to follow the same tradition of the verbal substitution made by a Hebrew reader i.e. it is a way to show reverence for the God's name.
Not all instances of lord in the English bibles are substitutions for YHVH; in the verse above "Lord of lords" is what is actually written in the Hebrew text i.e. "adoney ha'adonim"
In Hebrew some words referring to God are used in the majestic plural; however, the sense of the word is singular when referring to God. In the example of above we have Elohim and Adonim which in their normal sense means lords and gods respectively, but in the Majestic plural means Lord and God. Elohim and Adonim in the construct are Elohey and Adoney, meaning "Lord of" and "God of". "Eloheychem" is simply the construct of "Elohim" with the second person plural masculine declension "chem" meaning your. The last few things in the verse above are the prefex 'Ha' meaning "the" and the prefix "va" meaning "and" and the pronoun "hu" meaning "He", and the present tense of "to be" is often not written in Hebrew, but its meaning is assumed; there are gramatical rules which govern when "to be" is understood and when it is not. Putting it all together, a very literal reading of the above text would be:
That - YHVW - [is] - God of yours. - He - [is] - God of - the Gods - and Lord of - the lords.
or
That - YHVW - [is] - God of yours. - He - [is] - the God of - the Gods - and the Lord of - the lords.
The "-' above is used to separate the Hebrew words, and the "[]" above to indicate a word that is required by the context, but not present in the Hebrew text. The reason for the second option is that nouns in the construct cannot take the definite article, and rely on the article of the noun on which it is dependent for the article. When the primary noun has an article, context governs it understanding on the construct nouns.
One more side note: Adonai is the plural construct of Adonim with the first person singular declension and literally means "my lords"; however it is ALWAYS used in the majestic plural sense and means "My Lord" (and always refers to God)
< Message edited by benelchi -- 8/3/2008 9:08:10 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/3/2008 10:27:46 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 361
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
Benelchi
Thanks for the teachings! 
i will try to slowly digest it.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Yahwah - 8/4/2008 11:34:47 AM
|
|
|
Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7610
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
To benecchi:
Thanks.... you come across well...
You're heads and shoulders above some of in the the meanings of most things.... 
Hi Amy! L'peanut is BIG! looks like he is praying already,he is sooo cute.
I agree with you compliments to benecchi he is cool and very detail oriented but i wanted to comment on your | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
but you gotta drink cold tea to be that that's a problem 
