Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (Full Version)

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Covaan_Meshuga -> Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/29/2008 8:30:19 PM)

Parts of Washington State have instated a "green fee" and a ban on Styrofoam to begin next year. The idea of the green fee is to charge people a $.20 fee for every paper or plastic disposable bag they use for groceries, at that time, with charges being possible for other bags in other stores at a later time.

The grocery stores have sold their own fabric bags for a nominal fee, some insulated, for around two years now. These remain available, and while most are simple, some have become very interestingly fashioned.

The big thing here is that some people are angry, saying that groceries cost enough, without this added fee. Some complain that they forget their bags. There are other complaints.

I know some will hate me for this, but I think it is a great idea and that this should be instated everywhere, in order to cut back on garbage. I started making my own bags back in the early '90s and have bought several since. I love the idea.

What do you think of the idea?
Would you / do you already bring your own bags anyway?
Do you think there is a legitimate reason to complain about the idea?

Oh -- and the Styrofoam -- they just want it to end. It is filling up the landfills. It apparently doesn't recycle -- I don't know.



iluvatar -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/29/2008 8:54:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

What do you think of the idea?
Would you / do you already bring your own bags anyway?
Do you think there is a legitimate reason to complain about the idea?


I like plastic grocery bags - they're reasonably strong, easy to carry (esp w/ many bags), and they can be re-used as office-sized garbage bags. There's a lot of excessive bagging out there, but I don't know that grocery stores are the worst culprits. They may generate the most bags, but I'd bet they're used more efficiently than bags at non-grocery shops.

-Dan.



colliefan -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/29/2008 9:07:22 PM)

I love plastic bags...they are put to reuse cleaning up poop at the dog park. And poop is what the environmentalists are pushing.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/29/2008 9:07:50 PM)

Yeah, we recycle all the plastic bags that come home by taking them to a store that claims it is recycling them or giving them to 2nd hand stores. But I don't mind carrying my own bags in -- no problem.

I thought, after I start this thread, about governmental invasion in our lives, and this is another example of it, I know. Still, if people won't discipline themselves . . . .

Yeah, I know that will irk others, too.



colliefan -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/29/2008 9:21:45 PM)

I would much rather return to the old-fashioned paper bags. That way, if my Canes tank this year, I can wear a paper bag over my head when I go to their games.



deliveredarling -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 8:05:44 AM)

It has nothing to do with discipline. It's about convenience. Those plastic grocery bags save people money too by converting them to small trash bags. It's just another one of those added fees these companies are passing on to the consumers. It's plastic, it can be recycled. Companies are out to make the most they can and this is just another way to do it. It's really pretty simple, you don't want to pay the fee bring your own bag. But don't be surprised when people start doing that and they impose some other sort of fee for bringing your own bag in. When they tell you it's about the environment, they are really telling you it's about their bottom line.



iluvatar -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 8:33:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

It has nothing to do with discipline. It's about convenience. Those plastic grocery bags save people money too by converting them to small trash bags. It's just another one of those added fees these companies are passing on to the consumers. It's plastic, it can be recycled. Companies are out to make the most they can and this is just another way to do it. It's really pretty simple, you don't want to pay the fee bring your own bag. But don't be surprised when people start doing that and they impose some other sort of fee for bringing your own bag in. When they tell you it's about the environment, they are really telling you it's about their bottom line.


I was under the impression that this was imposed by the gov't, not the grocery stores.

-Dan.



mapachito13 -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 9:00:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

I would much rather return to the old-fashioned paper bags. That way, if my Canes tank this year, I can wear a paper bag over my head when I go to their games.


LOL! Trader Joe's still uses paper bags and they have nifty handles for easy carrying. They can have the double use too! They can carry snacks for the games so you won't have to pay those high concessionaire prices!

If they are going to do anything about plastic bags that I have nicknamed "urban tumbleweeds" I'd would rather they just go back to paper bags.



Miss Giggles -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 9:07:39 AM)

I always wondered why whole foods even had plastic bags when Trader Joe's doesn't use them. The grocery stores here have paper but you have to ask for them most of the time.

Anyway it's just a waste to use that many plastic bags in one trip. I bought the resuseable ones from Trader Joes.

cats still like paper bags too [:D]



deliveredarling -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 9:16:13 AM)

quote:


I was under the impression that this was imposed by the gov't, not the grocery stores.


Not sure about that. I think if it was government imposed, it would be nationwide. I haven't heard of it in my neck of the woods, at least not yet. I understood it to be the chains passing on their cost increase to the consumer.



Grace-N-Mercy -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 9:24:10 AM)

Personally, I like the idea. If I knew I had to pay a fee for plastic bags, I'd be a little more diligent about bringing in my cloth bags. As popular as these bags are, and as many as are being sold, there are a LOT of people forgetting them. I bought some bags a few months ago, then couldn't use them because I could only lift 5 pounds at a time, and figured I'd stock back up on some plastic bags for the kitty litter & such. Now I'm having trouble getting back in the habit. Also, if I go to Publix but only have Sweetbay bags, I'm less likely to carry in the other store's bags.

quote:

It's plastic, it can be recycled.

True, but the process of making the plastic bags is also toxic. And paper bags require trees to be cut down. Fabric bags are reusable.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 9:27:58 AM)

I think that paper and plastic bags are a serious problem. Back before they passed litter laws and put out trash cans, you used to have garbage floating all over. You still do.

Eventually, this garbage either ends up in my lawn or the South Pacific.

Perhaps there should be a 20 cent deposit for plastic bags?



agapetos -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 9:36:47 AM)

quote:

I know some will hate me for this, but I think it is a great idea and that this should be instated everywhere, in order to cut back on garbage. I started making my own bags back in the early '90s and have bought several since. I love the idea.
I think it's a brilliant idea too!

A new supermarket opened recently in the town next to me. I went in for a nose round and was given money-off vouchers ~ and they were worthwhile ones. I ended up doing more shopping than I anticipated and chose to buy a bag instead of just taking the free ones. When I got to the check out though, she couldn't find the scan code, so didn't charge me.

Some stores have 'bags for life' too (or used to). You buy a stronger bag and when it rips or tears or whatever, you can exchange it (free) for a new one.

Yes, the free ones do make convenient sized bags for rubbish, but taking from the store and then using them for rubbish isn't a very efficient use of them. They can be used several times before becoming a rubbish bag or for poop.

It fascinates me that people often say they don't remember to take them when they go shopping ~ but they manage to remember when they take the dog for a walk....

There is a chain of grocery stores here that has never given free bags, people either take their own or use the boxes that are available (and there aren't many of them around). It seems to have successfully kept it's costs down by doing this.

My local health store has never had it's own bags. People will take bags in (to leave for other customers) so they can be reused.



jazzact13 -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 10:02:54 AM)

If a grocery store or chain wanted in institute such a fee, they should be free to do so (and free to watch their customers shop elsewhere).

For the goverment to institute such a thing is going too far. It is simply another example of government intrusion.

Big Brother isn't just knocking at the door, and he's got more then just his foot in it. He's got his shoulder against it and is pushing vigorously.



upNORTder -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 10:12:34 AM)

Paper bags are biodegradable, they should just use those.



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 10:59:53 AM)

It's a stealth tax. The goobermint gets a big cut of those fees in the places where they've instituted it. The nicest thing I could say about it is I dislike the idea. It's another open door to levying nearly random taxes for any slights against 'mother earth' that any do-gooder local council latches onto. Manipulating people to do what you want is NOT the reason for the existence of tax policy.



its_GO_time -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 12:14:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

It's a stealth tax. The goobermint gets a big cut of those fees in the places where they've instituted it. The nicest thing I could say about it is I dislike the idea. It's another open door to levying nearly random taxes for any slights against 'mother earth' that any do-gooder local council latches onto. Manipulating people to do what you want is NOT the reason for the existence of tax policy.


AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN![:D][;)][:)]

Hey, while were at it, why not a per page "fee" on Bibles; After all it's not a necessity, like all those government forms are. Most of them are 1000 plus pages, leather bound, think of all those dead cows, and trees... sigh... Anyway, we as your leaders, don't want to promote religion, so this may discourage those from taking up this superstition, and so, be good subjects of the state.



GregandJenny -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 12:31:26 PM)

quote:

Not sure about that. I think if it was government imposed, it would be nationwide. I haven't heard of it in my neck of the woods, at least not yet. I understood it to be the chains passing on their cost increase to the consumer.


It is government imposed! The Seattle City counsel passed it. We will have to see where this one goes.

G



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 12:52:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
It has nothing to do with discipline. . . . It's really pretty simple, you don't want to pay the fee bring your own bag.
Of course, this is the idea, but people don't want to be bothered. They simply don't have the discipline. When one is dealing with it directly, it is about discipline, and about half of the public responses of the people have been that they just don't want to bother with the simple act of bringing a few bags in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I was under the impression that this was imposed by the gov't, not the grocery stores.
Right, Dan. Exactly. Government-imposed in a certain large part of the state of Washington but not all of it -- yet. This will fast spread through the West Coast, I am sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miss Giggles
Anyway it's just a waste to use that many plastic bags in one trip. I bought the resuseable ones from Trader Joes.
Oh, and be careful about some of the bags being sold, including the plastic ones. Many of them were made in China and have high levels of lead. It is a good idea to wash them, even though washing them may wash off any paint or dyes, before putting your food in them. I made some of my own, and I like them best.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Perhaps there should be a 20 cent deposit for plastic bags?
In 2009, if we do not bring in our own bag, and they must put the groceries in one of their plastic bags, we pay $.20 per bag. If we bring those bags in with us the next time, they will put our groceries in those bags and not charge us again. Some stores are now giving $.05 back to those who are already bringing in their own bags.



Miss Giggles -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 1:28:49 PM)

Trader Joes no longer imports any food from china. I doubt these bags have a high level of lead but if they do, then I give up. You just can't win either way.

I haven't found any canvas ones that were the right size and price.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 1:37:59 PM)

Making your own bags is very simple and satisfying. I bought strong fabric, patterned them after common paper bags, and sewed the handles in such a way that the are a continuous band going under the bag, giving the bag added strength and security. Some have Velcroed pockets. One is made specifically for a single carton of eggs.



rnershigh -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 6:15:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: its_GO_time

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

It's a stealth tax. The goobermint gets a big cut of those fees in the places where they've instituted it. The nicest thing I could say about it is I dislike the idea. It's another open door to levying nearly random taxes for any slights against 'mother earth' that any do-gooder local council latches onto. Manipulating people to do what you want is NOT the reason for the existence of tax policy.


AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN![:D][;)][:)]

Hey, while were at it, why not a per page "fee" on Bibles; After all it's not a necessity, like all those government forms are. Most of them are 1000 plus pages, leather bound, think of all those dead cows, and trees... sigh... Anyway, we as your leaders, don't want to promote religion, so this may discourage those from taking up this superstition, and so, be good subjects of the state.


I agree.
It's one thing if it's grocery stores doing it by themselves (I know Whole Foods doesn't use plastic bags anymore, and they made the decision themselves), but if it's the government or city officials behind it....
Just another way to get their hands on your money IMO.



colliefan -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 8:37:06 PM)

quote:

and sewed the handles


guys and sewing don't mix



Miss Giggles -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 10:21:13 PM)

then how come most of the top designers are men? LOL



colliefan -> RE: Grocery Bag Green Fees & Ban on Styrofoam (7/30/2008 10:32:37 PM)

quote:

then how come most of the top designers are men? LOL


And out of the total male population, how many are fashion designers? I am lucky I don't **** a finger trying to resew a button on my pants.



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