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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/1/2008 12:36:59 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The burden being spoken of in Galatians 6:1-2 is the burden of sin. Sin is that burden which weighs upon the Christian and drags them down (Hebrews 12:1). Sin is the greatest burden the Christian bears.
And we are all part of one body, if we are in Christ. When one part of the body is burdened by sin, it effects the whole body.
How do we help another brother or sister in Christ recover from being overtaken, caught or ensnared in sin, without dealing with their sin? Why do you suppose Galatians speaks of those who are spiritual being the ones who go to the person? Why does it warn there is a danger of being tempted, if the burden God is speaking about, through Paul, is not sin?
To bear a fellow Christians burden is to bear their burden of sin. We need one another in order to not be crushed under the weight of our sins. We need the truth that can set us free from the bondage of error.
Perhaps the first burden we need to bear for one another is the burden of the sin of not bearing one another’s burdens...?
Peace
This post is well worth repeating. I went back to read Galations 6 and sure enough it is about sin. My mistake. So how do we do this? I have a friend who is in the process of divorce, both are believers and I just don't get it. I haven't come right out and told her what I think, but I don't see how she has a biblical reason for divorce, if there really is one. What do I tell her? Am I willing to loose a friend if she doesn't liek what I say? I have relatives that say they are believers, but show no fruit and do not attend church, which I believe to be scriputrally wrong. Do I approach them and say, "Hey what's up?" Hmmmmm. 
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/1/2008 12:42:48 PM
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revbob4God
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quote:
I have a friend who is in the process of divorce, both are believers and I just don't get it. I haven't come right out and told her what I think, but I don't see how she has a biblical reason for divorce, if there really is one. What do I tell her?
Have both of them given you the reasons why they wish to pursue a divorce? If so, what are they?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/1/2008 1:08:16 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Oh, so do you mean that that means that we pray for others? And not pray for others in the sense that we do the praying in place of them.
Both. We are called to pray for others. But often they do not see their need, their sin. God reveals these things to us, not for criticism but intercession. . . so we pray for others who do not see their sin. And that is our priestly function, to intercede on their behalf. Does that make sense?
Edited to add: I read this post and responded and then went to the next page and read your next post, slushie. So perhaps this is needless. . .
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/1/2008 1:18:51 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
This post is well worth repeating. I went back to read Galations 6 and sure enough it is about sin. My mistake. So how do we do this? I have a friend who is in the process of divorce, both are believers and I just don't get it. I haven't come right out and told her what I think, but I don't see how she has a biblical reason for divorce, if there really is one. What do I tell her? Am I willing to loose a friend if she doesn't liek what I say? I have relatives that say they are believers, but show no fruit and do not attend church, which I believe to be scriputrally wrong. Do I approach them and say, "Hey what's up?" Hmmmmm.
YEAAAAAAAAAAH! (I'm yeahing about your reading and understanding the topic via URForgiven's post.)
How good of a friend are you with this person? Is she someone who you regularly talk to? Or more of an acquaintance? Since you don't know the reasons for the divorce, perhaps that means you don't know her well. . . am I correct?
Generally we err in wanting to tell others what we think rather than being involved in their lives and listening to what they have to say and trying to understand them, KWIM? There might be and probably is much you don't know about this relationship. I am in no way excusing divorce. I don't believe it is what God wants at all.
I walked through a divorce with a believing friend. It is a very difficult place to be. In her case, he had a serious alcohol problem and became involved with another woman and it was his choice to leave the marriage. But her heart was broken.
Do you desire to get close to this friend and become involved in an intimate way and share her burden?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/1/2008 5:36:01 PM
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pstrdebi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
We are to bear each other's burdens, but I see nowhere that says we're to bear their sins. That's Christ's job alone.
quote:
We can certainly forgive others. We can love them in spite of their sin. We can help people work through the consequences of their sin.
I do not see this as bearing their sin. "Bearing their sin" to me means taking its guilt and punishment upon myself, which is what Christ only can do. "Bearing their sin" means taking the sin upon myself.
Maybe it's more "forebearing with them in their sin" instead of bearing it?
It's probably more a matter of wording than of different attitudes.
Mmmm...Hmmmm!!
1 Timothy 5:22 "Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure."
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 1:12:46 PM
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mvic
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He ain't heavy ... He's my brother !!!
But his sins are his not mine.
Sure, I'll sympathise with him, I'll try and help him if I can, give him advice etc ... But I don't have to be a Christian to do that. Anyone can do that.
As a Christian I can do the above; and also pray for him. Pray to God to help him.
But he must understand that his sins are his actions, his burden to bear, and it's up to him to repent to God.
I've plenty of burdens with my own sins thank you very much !!!
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 6:05:16 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
He ain't heavy ... He's my brother !!!
But his sins are his not mine.
Sure, I'll sympathise with him, I'll try and help him if I can, give him advice etc ... But I don't have to be a Christian to do that. Anyone can do that.
As a Christian I can do the above; and also pray for him. Pray to God to help him.
But he must understand that his sins are his actions, his burden to bear, and it's up to him to repent to God.
I've plenty of burdens with my own sins thank you very much !!!
So what do you do with Galatians 6:2 that commands you to bear the burdens of your brothers and sisters. . . and those burdens are clearly their sins? I don't think we can tell God thank you very much but I have enough to do. So what do you do?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 6:11:32 PM
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mvic
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"Burdens" here means their troubles, their worries, their fears. It means help each other.
It does not mean their sins. No where in the Bible does it say we are responsible for other people's sins.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 6:13:52 PM
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slushie
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I really think it's more a matter of wording.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 6:26:14 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
"Burdens" here means their troubles, their worries, their fears. It means help each other.
It does not mean their sins. No where in the Bible does it say we are responsible for other people's sins.
Then why is the context all about sin? Our biggest burden is our sin. Unbelief is sin, for example. And when we hold faith over our friends, encouraging them, praying for them, prodding them on to believe, we are bearing their burden of sin, their unbelief.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 6:43:06 PM
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mvic
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Liveloved,
You don't know about my sins. Are you responsible for them?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 6:55:24 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1524
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slushie
I really think it's more a matter of wording.
I agree wiht this. It's helping another with/through their sin. Example: I struggle with a particular sin, I confess it to a friend and they hold me accountable, praye for me and walk with me till I overcome. That, to me, is the "sin" issue. Did I make any sense?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 7:15:56 PM
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mvic
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Stampinlady,
You make perfect sense. I agree with helping another with/through their sins by praying with them, encouraging them etc ....
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 7:18:46 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Liveloved,
You don't know about my sins. Are you responsible for them?
I'm not sure the word 'responsible' is the right one. And, no, since you are only a part of my cyberworld, it is hard for me to know you. But if you were to confess sin to me, the Lord would expect me to pray for you, to encourage you in ways that would lead you away from that sin, and be there for you. KWIM?
But those I am in daily contact with, and whose sins I am aware of, yes, there is a level of accountability. . . and He asks me to bear them. And as a priest (that's a role God has given, not that I am 'arrogantly' assuming), I bear them to God on behalf of those whose sins they are. Does that make sense?
I think part of the problem here (in regard to understanding all of this) is that most people don't have a close enough relationship with the Lord to know or be concerned about anyone's sins but their own. We have to get beyond ourselves. . . and that means giving up our judgment, our fleshly ways before the Lord is going to reveal these kinds of things to us and call us to intercession for others.
So perhaps I am asking others to do what they cannot do.
I began by asking how others were at bearing other's burdens. For example pride is a huge problem for many. When others deal pridefully with me, do I bear their burden? Or do I respond in kind and slap back? Put them in their place? The Lord would have me respond in love and gentleness and when there is an opportunity, perhaps deal with their sin in a more direct manner.
Does this make sense to you?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 7:22:24 PM
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deliveredarling
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I understand the principal here, yet I won't be a door mat and continually allow someone to treat me like dirt and say I am bearing their burden, KWIM?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 7:33:20 PM
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mvic
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Hi again Liveloved,
As you can see from my Post No. 39 I am happy to pray/encourage others if they need help and ask me for it.
Let's now change the scenario a little. Let's say you knew me personally - I attend your church or live in your town. And you knew I was sinning badly - let's say I am cheating on my wife.
Are you responsible for my sin? Is it your responsibility to tell me that what I am doing is wrong and I should stop it? Is that what Galatians 6:2 asking you to do?
I accept that you have a responsibility if I confess the sin to you. But if I don't confess it to you or anyone else; and you knew I'm sinning, is it your responsibility to point me in the right direction?
I know plenty around here who are sinning. If I approach them to put them right I can clearly foresee the response I'd get.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 8:29:51 PM
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ta_mosquito
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I had a thought in church tonight (we were in Hebrews, and I saw some passage about Jesus being our high priest). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it only the high priest who went in to bring the sacrifice for the people's sins? The other priests helped with the daily sacrifices, but didn't present themselves before God to confess the people's sins.
So my thought is that, while we are a kingdom of priests, Jesus is our High Priest. HE is the one that brings our sins before God; we, the priesthood of believers, don't do that. We assist others in their repentance, but we don't repent for them. We help them with their thank offerings and sacrifices, but we don't provide the sacrifices and offerings.
What do you think?
Perhaps a study of the different duties of the regular priests would be in order.
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 11:07:10 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
I understand the principal here, yet I won't be a door mat and continually allow someone to treat me like dirt and say I am bearing their burden, KWIM?
Because you deserve better? We deserve hell, DD, nothing more, nothing better. So if we really see who we are and what we are deserving of, can anyone treat us worse than we deserve? No, of course not.
But that does not mean that we remain in truly abusive situations. And here is where it becomes difficult. We live in a world of people who think they are verbally abused continually, harrassed verbally, etc. and leave relationships justifying themselves with these excuses. Now I am not saying that there aren't truly abusive situations. There are. And yes those people need to leave.
But there is very little bearing with others today. If I know who I am, loved eternally by the One and only One who really matters, can anyone really hurt me? They can take my physical life. But they can't take my Life from me. So we can bear alot and live in His love. I've known individuals who have lived in what others would call horrible abuse but they were willing out of love for Jesus. They loved and served Jesus as they lived. And that made all the difference.
I have had much evil done to me by people in the church. I did not retaliate. I prayed. And some of those individuals, years later, have written or called me with confessions of their sin. I saved those letters to remind me of what a powerful God we have. I love all of those people. Jesus died for them. Some of those individuals are people I fellowship with on a regular basis. They still have not seen, acknowledged or confessed their sin. But I am still praying. And I am believing God's best for them.
If I am willingly laying down my life and people walk over me I am not a door mat. I am living love. That's what Jesus did for me. That's what He asks me to do for others. No one can use me if I'm consenting. And therein lies the difference.
Does that make sense to you?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 11:23:41 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Hi again Liveloved,
As you can see from my Post No. 39 I am happy to pray/encourage others if they need help and ask me for it.
Let's now change the scenario a little. Let's say you knew me personally - I attend your church or live in your town. And you knew I was sinning badly - let's say I am cheating on my wife.
Are you responsible for my sin? Is it your responsibility to tell me that what I am doing is wrong and I should stop it? Is that what Galatians 6:2 asking you to do?
I accept that you have a responsibility if I confess the sin to you. But if I don't confess it to you or anyone else; and you knew I'm sinning, is it your responsibility to point me in the right direction?
I know plenty around here who are sinning. If I approach them to put them right I can clearly foresee the response I'd get.
mvic,
I am not responsible for your sin. But if you are my friend and you confess your sin to me, I hold some responsibility for helping you. For example, in Hebrews we are told to "encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin." So if I see you deceiving yourself regarding sin such as adultery, I would definitely speak to you about it.
That doesn't mean we speak to anyone and everyone about their sin. That would mean trouble for sure. But those who the Lord leads us to intercede for and then speak to, those we have to speak to regardless of the consequences. And we cannot let the consequences determine the rightness or wrongness of our actions. There are a number of times when the Lord has asked me to do this. It always followed a long period of intercession---many times a year of prayer. And He always deals with me, my attitudes first. But then, when it is His time, He sends me. And I go (fearfully but I go). And a number of times the consequences have meant the end to the relationship. They lash out and make accusations of you, etc, etc. But if you are walking in obedience to Him, and have done what He asked, you leave the consequences with Him. And that's what I have done.
It is not easy. And it is definitely NOT something I choose or want to do. I mean I want to walk in obedience but these kinds of situations are tough. In fact, if you are eager to do it, probably it's not from God. It should be something you're very hesitant to do---then it is not from the flesh but is being led by the Spirit, KWIM?
Anyway, those are my thoughts. LL 
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/3/2008 11:32:41 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
I had a thought in church tonight (we were in Hebrews, and I saw some passage about Jesus being our high priest). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it only the high priest who went in to bring the sacrifice for the people's sins? The other priests helped with the daily sacrifices, but didn't present themselves before God to confess the people's sins.
So my thought is that, while we are a kingdom of priests, Jesus is our High Priest. HE is the one that brings our sins before God; we, the priesthood of believers, don't do that. We assist others in their repentance, but we don't repent for them. We help them with their thank offerings and sacrifices, but we don't provide the sacrifices and offerings.
What do you think?
Perhaps a study of the different duties of the regular priests would be in order.
Perhaps I've led you to some wrong conclusions. I'm not talking about our atoning or repenting for others. I'm talking about pleading for God's mercy, asking Him to help others. Lifting them before the throne of grace is my part. It's a priestly role of intercession on their behalf---not confession or repentance.
Satan is our accuser before God and God certainly doesn't need me telling Him of other's sins---He already knows. But like Jesus prayed from the cross, I can pray that God show mercy and forgiveness to others. And I can pray that He lead them to repentance.
Hope that clarifies what I have been intending to communicate. And isn't it a God thing how once we are thinking about a topic, He draws our attention to other things that relate. He wants us to continue growing and learning. LL
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/4/2008 2:20:59 AM
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growingseed
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When Jesus was tempted, he was experiencing all that man would be tempted by, and only himself being perfect could resist this attack. EVERYONE ELSE, will fail in some way in their lives, and the way it works is that the Lord forgave you your sins even though you didn't deserve it, and Satan will test all of us in one way or another. To carry someone's burden is to share the experience somewhat in a way that they know that there is someone there to support them in their moment of weakness. We have to help each other out to get to heaven, some more then others, but no-one is free from the attacks from the enemy. I have never been in a war, but i have heard that when a friend was shot, that no matter the danger to yourself, you would go and get that person no matter what. In some case's we as soldiers on our way to heaven must do the same thing.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/4/2008 7:38:12 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
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quote:
Because you deserve better? We deserve hell, DD, nothing more, nothing better.
I am a precious child of God. What I deserve from God is one thing (and it's past sinced I have been washed) and what I get from man is another, entirely. God's wrath DOES NOT give man the right to treat us any which way they please. Man has nothing on God. The two cannot be equated in any manner. To do so, is highly erroneous.
We differ greatly in this, LL. Living a life of love doesn't mean that I have to compromise. If it causes me harm in compromising, God does not ask us to do that. In fact that would be breaking one of His commands.
"Love your neighbor as yourself." I don't treat my neighbors with disdain, nor do I treat myself with disdain. Jesus wasn't a door mat. He fulfilled the prophesies, that does not mean that we are to do the same. we simply can't. Our destiny, is not His destiny. We won't ever be equal to Him, nor will we surpass Him.
Maybe it's just me, but I am hearing some mixed messages from this post. Hopefully, I have stated clearly my understanding in addressing the mixed messages.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/4/2008 1:23:19 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
I am a precious child of God. What I deserve from God is one thing (and it's past sinced I have been washed) and what I get from man is another, entirely. God's wrath DOES NOT give man the right to treat us any which way they please. Man has nothing on God. The two cannot be equated in any manner. To do so, is highly erroneous.
We differ greatly in this, LL. Living a life of love doesn't mean that I have to compromise. If it causes me harm in compromising, God does not ask us to do that. In fact that would be breaking one of His commands.
"Love your neighbor as yourself." I don't treat my neighbors with disdain, nor do I treat myself with disdain. Jesus wasn't a door mat. He fulfilled the prophesies, that does not mean that we are to do the same. we simply can't. Our destiny, is not His destiny. We won't ever be equal to Him, nor will we surpass Him.
Maybe it's just me, but I am hearing some mixed messages from this post. Hopefully, I have stated clearly my understanding in addressing the mixed messages.
I don't understand what you mean when you say 'compromise', DD. Can you explain? Our destiny is to live loved but our destiny is also to suffer. You cannot truly follow Jesus any other way.
I also don't know what the 'mixed message' is---so you'll have to tell me. I think I am being clear regarding bearing others' burdens, including their sins. We are one body in Christ and when they suffer, I suffer.
Anyway, just 'splain it to me, dear sister, because I do want to have understanding. Thanks! LL
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/4/2008 3:05:04 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1524
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Dd, I think it's a good idea to compare others scriptures with this topic. I'm not gonna post the referances, because I don't have time, but here are some I can think if:
"Don't throw your pearls before swine."
"Flee from evil"
"Brush the dust from your sandle" - when the truth isn't accepted leave.
1 Corinthians 5 also comes mind.
Matt. 18 - correcting a believer
I hope these help.
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Deb
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we take full responsibility for another's sin is what you meant. 
