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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/5/2008 9:23:17 PM
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Liveloved
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In regard to bearing the burdens of others I'm reminded of Paul's attitude.
"we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life of Jesus also maybe manifested in our body." II Cor 4:8-11
"Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults (or mistreatment), with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties; for Christ's sake. . ." IICor 12:10
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/8/2008 2:08:41 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
True that, but doesn't mean we have to disrespect ourselves when we do whatever.
I am not sure what you mean by 'disrespect yourself'. One of our biggest areas of sin is pride and self love. In Philippians 2, we are told what being like Christ looks like (and does). The Apostle Paul writes
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself, do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."Phil 2:3-8
Humility and selflessness do not come easily. Seeing ourselves rightly, as God sees us, and loving Him and others more than ourselves is the path of Christ. It's only from that position (beneath and below) that we can help others. It's putting Jesus on the throne, taking ourselves off, and doing all for Him.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/8/2008 7:57:09 PM
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deliveredarling
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Your scripture references are posting to fruits of the spirit, our characteristics. I can tell you this, and I hope this explains it. I am a Christian, a professing Christian. I have a ton of patience. When enough is enough, I will not put up with it any longer. It does not mean that I retaliate or pay evil for evil. I do not have to take abuse of any kind from another person. Jesus did it for us. It does not mean we have to. What would be the point of us getting the tar beaten out of us and take it? Are we really going to reach the person beating the tar out of us because we so patiently tolerated it and allowed it to happen in order to be like Jesus? Come on now. LL, this is whacked thinking here. Not only dangerous for you to believe but dangerous for others who might be reading this. I'm offering a word of caution to you in this.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 12:16:33 AM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Your scripture references are posting to fruits of the spirit, our characteristics. I can tell you this, and I hope this explains it. I am a Christian, a professing Christian. I have a ton of patience. When enough is enough, I will not put up with it any longer. It does not mean that I retaliate or pay evil for evil. I do not have to take abuse of any kind from another person. Jesus did it for us. It does not mean we have to. What would be the point of us getting the tar beaten out of us and take it? Are we really going to reach the person beating the tar out of us because we so patiently tolerated it and allowed it to happen in order to be like Jesus? Come on now. LL, this is whacked thinking here. Not only dangerous for you to believe but dangerous for others who might be reading this. I'm offering a word of caution to you in this.
Welcome back! I thought you must have been gone. Glad to have you back. 
I am not talking about tolerating truly abusive situations such as physical abuse. But when you say "you do not have to take abuse of any kind from another person", how do you define 'of any kind'? Don't you have people in your world who, for example, are always the cheapskates and you end up picking up the tab? That could be defined as abusive. Yet Jesus says to not only give to them what they ask for but to give them more besides. Doesn't Jesus call us to follow Him, walk as He walked, live as He lived? I don't understand where you say "Jesus did it for us" so we don't have to. Isn't the Christlife all about living AS Jesus lived? He said we have to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. Denying self and taking up a cross is serious and the cost is all of me.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 6:46:41 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
Don't you have people in your world who, for example, are always the cheapskates and you end up picking up the tab? That could be defined as abusive. Yet Jesus says to not only give to them what they ask for but to give them more besides. Doesn't Jesus call us to follow Him, walk as He walked, live as He lived? I don't understand where you say "Jesus did it for us" so we don't have to. Isn't the Christlife all about living AS Jesus lived? He said we have to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. Denying self and taking up a cross is serious and the cost is all of me.
Yes, to an extent. The person that always leaves you to get the tab, no. The proverbs caution us to use wisdom. The repetitive person who wants everything for nothing, no. Denying ourselves, yes, in a prudent fashion, using wisdom and good judgment.
Persecution for being a Christian is one thing, being taken advantage of is quite another.
Let's say you have a friend who always wants to go have lunch. When ya'll get through eating they "expect" you to get the tab because you believe that is the Christian thing to do. They know this is your belief and use that, they use excuse after excuse, guilt, manipulation etc. This is the person who gets mad at you when you tell them you can't go this week because funds are tight. Do we continue to go, putting ourself in a place of financial hardship or do we let them get over their fit or even ask them to pick up the tab if they want to go?
Do you see the difference? He didn't ask us to do this. Help the downtrodden, the poor, the widows, those in need. He didn't say break your back for those who take advantage, the predators who are only out for themselves.
BTW, for these types of individuals, it is a way of life. They don't want to change and they certaily get offended when you call them on it.
When I said Jesus already did it, I meant He already paid the price for us. We don't have to do that. That was the free gift. He died for all sin, theirs and mine. I don't accomplish anything by to go to the cross for someone else. I'm just not that powerful. I have to let God be God. I do nothing for my brother by allowing them to continue using/abusing me. I'm not sending them any kind of loving message by allowing it. Rather, the see sucker right across my forehead.
I hope that came across in a better explanation.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 3:55:24 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Persecution for being a Christian is one thing, being taken advantage of is quite another.
But what if 'being taken advantage of by someone' IS the persecution for being a Christian? I think it is this kind of persecution that we are called to. Now that does not mean we have to go out looking for it. But, for example, when we were recently involved in a landscaping project and gave the guy money up front (knowing he had an alcohol problem but wanting to give the guy a chance) and it ended up with our losing money and not getting the work done, how do we respond? We told him what we (generously) thought we owed him. He kept what he wanted. We did not pursue the remainder even though the state consumer trade & protection agency wanted to pursue him. We blessed him and when I run into him, I lovingly greet him. He's a sad and sorry man. He knows he did wrong. My blessing him is Christ's loving him. Or what about the man who had my hubby vaccinate all his cattle and then sold them and never paid us. We paid for the drugs. We provided the labor. And the man got the profit. We bless this man. We want this man to know Jesus. These men need Jesus. And they need to see His life through me.
I don't know if we're too far apart on this. I have offered shelter to someone in an abusive marriage. I do not think that is at all what Jesus intends for us.
But laying down our lives is what love does. It is what He does in me all the time if I surrender and don't rebel and fight against Him.
Wasn't it Paul who said he'd be a fool for Jesus? sucker is not much different I guess.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 4:31:51 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
But what if 'being taken advantage of by someone' IS the persecution for being a Christian? I think it is this kind of persecution that we are called to.
Persecution is never self-inflicted.
quote:
But, for example, when we were recently involved in a landscaping project and gave the guy money up front (knowing he had an alcohol problem but wanting to give the guy a chance) and it ended up with our losing money and not getting the work done, how do we respond? We told him what we (generously) thought we owed him. He kept what he wanted. We did not pursue the remainder even though the state consumer trade & protection agency wanted to pursue him.
I would say you did the right thing, knowing that you choose to give this guy your money upfront with the fore knowledge of the alcohol problem. You took on that responsibility. To come back and cry foul after you knew and did it anyways would have screamed victim. You were a willing and participating victim in this case. Here in lies the difference. You chose to do this knowingly. You willingly took a chance and you got burned.
Now having that knowledge, would it be prudent of you to do the same thing again? Is that really being a good steward of the money that God has blessed you with?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 4:54:06 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
quote:
But what if 'being taken advantage of by someone' IS the persecution for being a Christian? I think it is this kind of persecution that we are called to.
Persecution is never self-inflicted.
quote:
But, for example, when we were recently involved in a landscaping project and gave the guy money up front (knowing he had an alcohol problem but wanting to give the guy a chance) and it ended up with our losing money and not getting the work done, how do we respond? We told him what we (generously) thought we owed him. He kept what he wanted. We did not pursue the remainder even though the state consumer trade & protection agency wanted to pursue him.
I would say you did the right thing, knowing that you choose to give this guy your money upfront with the fore knowledge of the alcohol problem. You took on that responsibility. To come back and cry foul after you knew and did it anyways would have screamed victim. You were a willing and participating victim in this case. Here in lies the difference. You chose to do this knowingly. You willingly took a chance and you got burned.
Now having that knowledge, would it be prudent of you to do the same thing again? Is that really being a good steward of the money that God has blessed you with?
But isn't that exactly what Christ did for us? Didn't He "willingly take a chance"? And couldn't we say He "got burned"? That's what giving up your rights, your reputation, your all to Christ is. It is a willingness to serve Christ in whatever way He chooses. It is not self inflicted suffering or persecution. Just as Paul told the slaves to serve their masters as unto the Lord. That is how we are to serve, to live.
And you know, I probably would and will give people chances. I will spend my money extravagantly on Christ just like the woman with the vial of perfume. Pouring it out on unworthy and worthless people like He did for me. Poured out as a drink offering is the way Paul said it, saw it and lived it. Many told the woman she was being unwise. Jesus said what she did would be talked about forever.
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 5:10:17 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
Joined: 8/30/2007
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I don't think I'm explaining very well.  I tried to use your personal experience and I don't think I wrote it well at all. If i offended, I am truly sorry. That was not my intent. It just sounded very good in my mind.
Repetition is key here. I'm not at all saying or trying to imply that we don't do these things for people. I do them too, but burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me.
I won't allow the pattern to continue. Just like I won't continue to bang my head against a brick wall.
SL, used the exact scriptures I was thinking of. If those are Jesus' words aren't they just as important to consider? Those came from Him for a reason. There are people out there who truly need our time, attention, money. Wouldn't He rather us spend these things on the truly needy rather than the ones who only want to take, take, take? That's all I'm trying to say.
I think it has everything to do with being a good steward of not only our money, but our time.
He instructed his disciples to leave the cities that rejected the gospel. When people just want from us what they can get, they aren't seeking God. If they want it, we left them knowing where they can find it, if they choose to really seek Him.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 8:36:17 PM
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Forever_flying
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
But isn't that exactly what Christ did for us? Didn't He "willingly take a chance"? And couldn't we say He "got burned"? That's what giving up your rights, your reputation, your all to Christ is. It is a willingness to serve Christ in whatever way He chooses. It is not self inflicted suffering or persecution. Just as Paul told the slaves to serve their masters as unto the Lord. That is how we are to serve, to live.
And you know, I probably would and will give people chances. I will spend my money extravagantly on Christ just like the woman with the vial of perfume. Pouring it out on unworthy and worthless people like He did for me. Poured out as a drink offering is the way Paul said it, saw it and lived it. Many told the woman she was being unwise. Jesus said what she did would be talked about forever.
Liveloved, would you knowingly lend money to a drug addict? Would you feed their addiction in an attempt to show GOD's love? Yes, we should show love and mercy to those that society has castout, but when we help them in a way that destroys them, where is GOD's love in that? We can still help them moniterily with bills and food, but when we know where the money is going, and if it's not going somewhere good, the result helps no one.
_____________________________
My Blog
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 8:41:49 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Liveloved, would you knowingly lend money to a drug addict? Would you feed their addiction in an attempt to show GOD's love? Yes, we should show love and mercy to those that society has castout, but when we help them in a way that destroys them, where is GOD's love in that? We can still help them moniterily with bills and food, but when we know where the money is going, and if it's not going somewhere good, the result helps no one.
No, I would not and do not lend money knowingly to drug addicts. But as Oswald Chambers said and I only occasionally follow, God says that when someone asks, give. It's up to Him to deal with what they do with it.
But as a hard hearted judgmental (by nature) person, Jesus has to continually remind me of Who He is, what He did, what He does, and for me to get out of His way. KWIM?
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 8:43:45 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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quote:
If i offended, I am truly sorry.
Hon, you did not offend me. And if I were to take offense from you, it would be my fault and something I would need to get over. I know you are dealing with me in love. I know that. So that is how I receive everything you say to me. LL back later... dinner is waiting
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RE: A beast of burden---is that you? - 8/9/2008 8:54:32 PM
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Forever_flying
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Joined: 7/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
Liveloved, would you knowingly lend money to a drug addict? Would you feed their addiction in an attempt to show GOD's love? Yes, we should show love and mercy to those that society has castout, but when we help them in a way that destroys them, where is GOD's love in that? We can still help them moniterily with bills and food, but when we know where the money is going, and if it's not going somewhere good, the result helps no one.
No, I would not and do not lend money knowingly to drug addicts. But as Oswald Chambers said and I only occasionally follow, God says that when someone asks, give. It's up to Him to deal with what they do with it.
But as a hard hearted judgmental (by nature) person, Jesus has to continually remind me of Who He is, what He did, what He does, and for me to get out of His way. KWIM?
of course. As long as you use wisdom in giving, and it is GOD led, more blessings to the giver. 
_____________________________
My Blog
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