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:: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 5:53:31 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6283
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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I received a PM earlier today and it really disturbed me. It was regarding how Mormons and JW's cannot be born-again because they believe in a false/fake Jesus, not the Jesus revealed in Scripture.
A person can be utterly sincere in their beliefs, but be sincerely wrong.
The individual (a self-professing Christian) said:
quote:
Please show me where it says by knowledge and not by faith. Also, it is clear that the false prophet Joseph Smith was a Mason of the group whom you say are some people who are of the Faith of God. Therefore, how is it that you would not understand that some of the Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists are among The True Faith in Christ, too? For it is written regarding the wheat and tares. Also, it is written not to condemn or judge anything before the appointed time.
Any thoughts?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 6:03:08 PM
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dianetavegia
Posts: 2031
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
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So do you want to discuss JW's, Mormons, Masons or faith?
Faith in my door that it won't slam by itself won't save me anymore than faith in a false concept of Christ as the brother of Satan, etc. would save those lost in cults.
Even the demons believe..... and tremble...... but face eternity in damnation apart from God, just as do those who espouse the beliefs of the cults you mentioned.
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 6:11:05 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dianetavegia
So do you want to discuss JW's, Mormons, Masons or faith?
Faith in my door that it won't slam by itself won't save me anymore than faith in a false concept of Christ as the brother of Satan, etc. would save those lost in cults.
Even the demons believe..... and tremble...... but face eternity in damnation apart from God, just as do those who espouse the beliefs of the cults you mentioned.
And that is precisely what I do not, do not, understand where this self-professing Christian is coming from. Does he actually believe that anyone and everyone is saved because of "good works" or because they are "nice" people? Or because they claim to believe in something named 'jesus'?
When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, He asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:15, Mark 8:29, Luke 9:20).
Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 6:23:24 PM
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dianetavegia
Posts: 2031
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From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
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Remember these scriptures!
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Tim. 3:1-5
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 John 1: 7-11
"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-9
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Titus 3:9-11
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 6:59:34 PM
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TrustingGod
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Just because people are "earnest" in their belief doesn't mean they are believe in the truth. Nor does it mean they are excused for their ignorance.
If a person is following a leader and the leader is wrong, so is the follower. We all have the responsibility to know the truth and follow it.
I believe that is why we have so many different denominations/theologies. People are too busy following people and looking to God. Too many people have no idea what the Word says - they get their translation from man.
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 7:09:40 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2458
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I received a PM earlier today and it really disturbed me. It was regarding how Mormons and JW's cannot be born-again because they believe in a false/fake Jesus, not the Jesus revealed in Scripture.
A person can be utterly sincere in their beliefs, but be sincerely wrong.
The individual (a self-professing Christian) said:
quote:
Please show me where it says by knowledge and not by faith. Also, it is clear that the false prophet Joseph Smith was a Mason of the group whom you say are some people who are of the Faith of God. Therefore, how is it that you would not understand that some of the Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists are among The True Faith in Christ, too? For it is written regarding the wheat and tares. Also, it is written not to condemn or judge anything before the appointed time.
Any thoughts?
Greetings,
Yes, it's a cry for help!
If that statement was presented correctly ....The writer does not understand why they are being judged (tormented) before their appointed times
Luke 8:28-32
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 7:12:40 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6283
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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LG,
Yes, the last sentence (point) about not judging is also odd and not in step with Scripture. I wonder if he does not have a problem worshipping & praying alongside Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Hindus, Muslims, etc...
There seems to be a streak among some for Unitarianism, which is an affront to Scripture.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 8:23:08 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
Unitarianism,
Earthless, what is YOUR def. of this word?
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 8:36:00 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6283
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Unitarianism,
Earthless, what is YOUR def. of this word?
Where to even start... relativism, tolerance, and alternative lifestyles are all buzz words used by Unitarian Universalism.
The Unitarian Universalist name comes from their denial of the doctrine of the Trinity and their belief that all human beings gain salvation. According to Universalists, the mere idea someone might go to hell is not compatible with the character of a loving God.
Its roots go all the way back to the 16th century when Unitarian beliefs became popular during the Reformation. Unitarian thought and Universal thought were merged together during the late eighteenth-century in America during the Age of Reason.
The intellectual elite of that time refused to believe in such biblical teachings as total depravity and eternal damnation, but rather embraced the idea of a loving God who would never cause someone to suffer.
Adherents of Unitarian Universalism base their beliefs primarily upon their own experiences and are not committed to any one religious system.
They believe that individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to believe in and that others should not infringe upon this right.
As a result, one such believer might lean toward liberal Christianity, while another might lean toward New Age spirituality. There is no real dogma beyond tolerance - for everything except biblical Christianity.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 9:08:07 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
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From: Raleigh, NC
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Thomas Jefferson created his own bible where he "carved out" any verses that spoke of the divinity of Christ. As earthless has indicated and this was the age that created Charles Darwin and Karl Marx.
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 9:14:58 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2458
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
LG,
Yes, the last sentence (point) about not judging is also odd and not in step with Scripture. I wonder if he does not have a problem worshipping & praying alongside Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Hindus, Muslims, etc...
There seems to be a streak among some for Unitarianism, which is an affront to Scripture.
When they support the annointing of homosexuals as devine and not as sin as an abomonation to the Lord, and marry them to Christ, they mock Jesus as a homosexual, what else would one expect from Unitarianism
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 9:19:35 PM
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prophet
Posts: 593
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
Please show me where it says by knowledge and not by faith.
Faith comes by haering, and hearing the Word of God. Knowledge when breathed on by The Holy Spirit beings revelation which leads to faith.
So if you get the wrong knowledge(lies), you end up in the wrong alley!
i understand other religions have 'Jesus' in their knowledge as well.....eg islam, bahais, etc
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 10:26:11 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10649
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Even Jesus tells us that many will claim His Name and know Who He is and even do "good works", but heaven won't be in their futures.
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~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/30/2008 10:53:14 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4470
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I received a PM earlier today and it really disturbed me. It was regarding how Mormons and JW's cannot be born-again because they believe in a false/fake Jesus, not the Jesus revealed in Scripture.
A person can be utterly sincere in their beliefs, but be sincerely wrong.
The individual (a self-professing Christian) said:
quote:
Please show me where it says by knowledge and not by faith. Also, it is clear that the false prophet Joseph Smith was a Mason of the group whom you say are some people who are of the Faith of God. Therefore, how is it that you would not understand that some of the Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists are among The True Faith in Christ, too? For it is written regarding the wheat and tares. Also, it is written not to condemn or judge anything before the appointed time.
Any thoughts?
This is what Christ said about truth:
John 4:21-24 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 17:17-19 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
And as Romans 1 clarifies, we have to be so very careful that we are not exchanging the truth of God for a lie. Truth matters!
The Christ we worship is clearly defined in Scripture (Colossians 1 is a good place to start). Christ is the truth, and by no other way can men be saved.
While God certainly doesn't expect a new believer to have a full understanding of correct doctrine on Christ, there doesn't appear to be much leeway in Scripture for those who knowingly hold fast to a FALSE understanding of the Godhead.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 7:36:46 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1884
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I received a PM earlier today and it really disturbed me. It was regarding how Mormons and JW's cannot be born-again because they believe in a false/fake Jesus, not the Jesus revealed in Scripture.
A person can be utterly sincere in their beliefs, but be sincerely wrong.
The individual (a self-professing Christian) said:
quote:
Please show me where it says by knowledge and not by faith. Also, it is clear that the false prophet Joseph Smith was a Mason of the group whom you say are some people who are of the Faith of God. Therefore, how is it that you would not understand that some of the Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists are among The True Faith in Christ, too? For it is written regarding the wheat and tares. Also, it is written not to condemn or judge anything before the appointed time.
Any thoughts?
My thoughts are about those who did find faith in Christ and came out of their false belief system and then spoke about it.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
(2 Corinthians 6:17)
http://www.exadventist.com/
Chart comparing Bible vs. Mormon and Jehovah's Witness doctrines:
http://www.4witness.org/mormon/jwldschr.php
I just Googled those up and so can't vouch for every single word on their sites, but I read enough to see that the former members of the groups in question found the Bible to disprove their former beliefs.
Why would this be necessary if they were "among The True Faith in Christ" as they were?
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 9:21:24 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Any thoughts?
Must be spam because I received the identical PM. I chose to ignore it because of the source but I find it interesting that more than one of us got it.
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 9:29:08 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Any thoughts?
Must be spam because I received the identical PM. I chose to ignore it because of the source but I find it interesting that more than one of us got it.
Hmm.. that is VERY interesting.
Here are two more from the same source:
quote:
Dear earthless,
I see that you are correct with respect to sound doctrine. I was unaware that they did not believe in the Testimony of Jesus regarding himself as
One with The Father. Jesus also said that The Father is Greater than all. No one sits at The Right Hand of God except Jesus. If The Father spoke directly through His Spirit through the mouth of Christ as written, then The Father was speaking I AM.
Sincerely,
_________
Please accept my apologies for not merely wanting to reject others based on preceptions, though, of not what is inside people; per se; but rather only with regards the semantics of Sound Doctrinal dictions rather than substance of the relationship that God established through His Son. It is written: He who receives you, receives Me. He who receives Me, receives the One who sent me, therefore the king of syria during the time of Elisha received the Holy; and especially his servant; in obedience to The Word that God Spoke through Him.
And then ten minutes later I get this:
quote:
Dear earthless,
Please understand that no one knows ahead of time who is saved; except by faith anyway. Have you seen the Lambs Book of Eternal Life to know that these peoples names are not written? Therefore, you are claiming to be Jesus in judging someones salvation! This type of talking is antichrist in origin and is an example of how scripture can be used falsely.
Sound Doctrine matters, but not to condemn others with. Only to encourage to be used properly. Jesus said I condemn no one and I will give to each according to what they have done.
Sincerely,
_____________
Is that a contradiction to what was first said? *shakes head*
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 9:39:10 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
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Reminds me of the countless people that accept at face value anything a person says God told them - when what they say contradicts the written Word.
I would rather have a gift of discernment from the Holy Spirit - and the willingness to heed it - than a ton of gold or the guarantee that I'd live to be 120 years old.
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 10:35:11 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
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(((((((CRANKIUS)))))))
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 12:18:00 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3614
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From: OKLAHOMA
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It's amazing the amount of "nonsense" that is
declared as truth by so many.
I guess we're in the age of delusion. lol.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 7/31/2008 10:02:00 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2458
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Any thoughts?
Must be spam because I received the identical PM. I chose to ignore it because of the source but I find it interesting that more than one of us got it.
Greetings
I wondered about that….it was just last week; I was just playing around with a virus in my Lab activity at home, and it was pretty nasty, it took out 3 test computers over the network in less than 2 days, after I got rid of it I was reading a white paper about these new breeds.... and made mention of some Christian sites along with other non related sites that were most likely in high risk of a vulnerability…. and spam email was also mentioned.
That’s why I don’t trust many of these jokers that show up in the threads with there little links to promote their little websites…. which are NOT secure… to say the least!!
SO…Be careful....it could be a worm or virus also.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: :: Anyone using the term 'Jesus' saved? - 8/1/2008 8:34:21 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Any thoughts?
Must be spam because I received the identical PM. I chose to ignore it because of the source but I find it interesting that more than one of us got it.
Greetings
I wondered about that….it was just last week; I was just playing around with a virus in my Lab activity at home, and it was pretty nasty, it took out 3 test computers over the network in less than 2 days, after I got rid of it I was reading a white paper about these new breeds.... and made mention of some Christian sites along with other non related sites that were most likely in high risk of a vulnerability…. and spam email was also mentioned.
That’s why I don’t trust many of these jokers that show up in the threads with there little links to promote their little websites…. which are NOT secure… to say the least!!
SO…Be careful....it could be a worm or virus also.
LG
Sorry if I was unclear - by "spam" I meant that a certain forum member deliberately sent the same nonsensical PM unsolicited to at least two of us separately.
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