RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit?
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 5:35:38 PM
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GraceBro
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quote:
My questions:
1- What is the Baptism by the Holy Spirit?
2- Do we need to have it? If yes, Why?
3- What are the advantages of this kind of Baptism? In what way will it make us better Christians. If we're unable to get it, will lack of it make us lousy or inadequate Christians?
1. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the restoration of the life of God to all who accept Christ by faith.
2. Yes, you need to have it. If you don't have it, you are not saved, are not a Christian and do not have the right to call yourself a child of God.
3. Again, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is having the life of God indwelling you. It is why Christians are called the Body of Christ. The spirit of God, made possible through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, now indwells every Christian. It is how God lives His life in and through us. The only way not to get it is not to accept Christ as your Savior. As Jesus told Nicodemus, "you must be born again." All of us are born once physically. We are born again, spiritually, when the life of God indwells us at the time of our salvation. What is birth? It is life. That is why you must be born again. You need the life of God, lost in Adam, restored to you, in Christ.
Ephesians 4:5 says there is only "one Lord, one faith, one baptism.." That "one" baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the only baptism that saves. The entire Gospel rests on the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
When Adam was created in the Garden of Eden, God breath His life into Adam and he became a living being (Genesis 2:7). God warned Adam that on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would surely die (Genesis 2:17). Adam disobeyed God and ate from the tree, thus he died spiritually. The life of God that was breathed into Him was removed. Adam was dead spiritually, but alive physically. All of mankind is born into this world spiritually dead to God, without His life indwelling them, in the image of Adam (not God). God, desiring to once again indwell His creation had to first deal with the sin that caused that life to leave mankind. Since no man had a life worthy enough to satisfy God, God sent His Son, Jesus, to do for us what we could not do for ourselves. Adam was the only man created alive spiritually. Jesus was the only man born alive spiritually. That is why Jesus was the only one capable of taking the penalty for our sins. Through His death on the cross, it was now possbile for God to offer His life again, as a free gift, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, to all who accept it by faith.
Without the resurrection of Jesus Christ we are, as Paul said, "still in our sins" and to be "pitied more than all men." The reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is that He rose from the dead so He could live His life in and through you. Amen!
Grace and Peace
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 6:40:34 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Nowhere MrFribbles, except, of course when it speaks about the miracles and healings that follow those who believe Mk 16:16,17 & 18
Nothing in this passage speaks of water flowing from a person's belly. I feel uncomfortable accepting any teaching without a strong biblical support.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 6:41:59 PM
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Giulia
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quote:
The only literal baptism that occurs in a Christian's life is baptism in water, which Paul is talking about in Ephesians 4:5 when he says there is only one baptism.
Actually this is not entirely true because there is another baptism and that is of the Holy Ghost and of fire [Ma 3:11]; water is a representation of that; remembering the composition of elements in heaven is different to that of the earth.
Anyway, no amount of explaining will make it any clearer;perhaps it is even a shame to explain, as it is a mystery which God has chosen to reveal.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 8/2/2008 6:48:27 PM >
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 6:44:37 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
(remembering the composition of elements in heaven is different to that of the earth)
Do you have any Scriptural support for that?
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- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 7:00:21 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
are you for real asking me that? Check out the composition of crystal. Scripture says there is a river which flows from the throne of God. This river is bright as crystal. Guess if you need to know this God will show you.
Water here on earth can be as bright as crystal, too. There is nothing to suggest water is different in its nature up in heaven.
Yes, we don't have entire seas as clear as glass here on earth - but we also aren't in the direct presence of the glory of God, either.
quote:
I cannot, neither do I desire to prove anything in heaven, as it is received only by faith and it is received by those who enquire earnestly, not those who desire to pull down; neither does it make it any more or less real, for that matter.
Listen, friend. I'm not trying to pull you down. I'm asking you to think. Many Christians today are happy to receive any teaching they hear without first checking it against the infallible guide of Scripture. I am only asking questions about your view as it relates to Scripture. If your view cannot stand under this test, then I encourage you to prayerfully consider whether or not it is a view worth keeping.
*edited to account for the edits made by the poster I was responding to*
< Message edited by MrFribbles -- 8/2/2008 7:06:59 PM >
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 7:51:10 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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Greatdivide makes and interesting point about "figurative" language. We should discriminate between plain, simple lnaguage and figures of speech; the figures are to be understood from the literal meaning of Scripture; an attempt to settle the meaning or interpret correctly the meaning of a word or phrase by means of its figureative use is "nuts". One example is:
It is not the "word of God"; or "Christ" who is the "bright and morning star," but if you interpret it with such a method, it is the "bright morning star" that is "Christ". These methods of attempting to give the meaning of Scripture by its use of gigures lead to errors and fallacies in conclusions. Gigurative terms must be interpreted with literal terms; the literal meaning must be gained from the simple context, while the figurative terms must be understood in the light of the literal language.
We see the concept of the Holy Spirit being "poured" in Scripture ( Acts 2:17,18, 33; Acts 10:45; Titus 3:5,6). This was not literally The Holy spirit being "poured" as some type of liquid. It is a misconception of the personality of the Holy Spirit to think of Him being "poured" out like a liquid. To interpret the literal with the figurative is a mistake.
Another example is "living water". Were the disciples to "drink" the Holy Spirit?
"Baptism" of the Holy Spirit is a figurative term as applied to the Holy Spirit. First used by God himself in giving the criteria for John to recognize the Christ. When John saw the Spirit "ascend" on Jesus he responded "I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God." It was that distinguishing characteristic of the Messiah, that he should possess the power to baptize in the HOly Spirit.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 8:56:54 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1191
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
quote:
The only literal baptism that occurs in a Christian's life is baptism in water, which Paul is talking about in Ephesians 4:5 when he says there is only one baptism.
Actually this is not entirely true because there is another baptism and that is of the Holy Ghost and of fire [Ma 3:11]; water is a representation of that; remembering the composition of elements in heaven is different to that of the earth.
Anyway, no amount of explaining will make it any clearer;perhaps it is even a shame to explain, as it is a mystery which God has chosen to reveal.
Certainly the receiving of the indwelling, regenerating presence really happens. But it is not a physical event, it is a spiritual event. The fact that it's called a baptism is merely incidental. I could have been called anything.
I believe that when Paul says that there is only one baptism he is using the term literally, not figuratively, and therefore, since the only physical baptism is with water, Paul must be referring to baptism in water. Personally I believe, based on Scripture, that we receive the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized in water. At least that's how it worked in my life. 
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The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/3/2008 3:26:34 AM
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VCO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
. . .
To me, I am familiar with the usual traditional baptism which is with water, either as a child or adult. When it comes to Baptism by the Holy Spirit, I have no clue.
. . .
U&U
A number of denominations try to make something it is not out of it, and come up with complicated explanations, that just do not square with Scripture. IN REALITY, it is very simple to EXPLAIN, when you let Scripture itself explain it:
1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Now first of all remember that the word "baptize" means to immerse or punge into something. It is used to describe a garment being punged into dye to color it, for example. So, in the above verse:
1. Who is the one doing the baptizing?
The Holy Spirit.
2. Who is being baptized?
All true believers in Jesus Christ, including the Thief on the Cross.
3. What are we being immersed into?
The spiritual Body of Christ, the moment we genuinely receive Jesus as Lord.
Romans 12:4-5 (NKJV)
4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
I know you will hear or read many other confusing explanations, but remember God is not the author of CONFUSION:
1 Corinthians 14:33 (NKJV)
33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/3/2008 9:07:34 AM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VCO
A number of denominations try to make something it is not out of it, and come up with complicated explanations, that just do not square with Scripture. IN REALITY, it is very simple to EXPLAIN, when you let Scripture itself explain it:
1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Now first of all remember that the word "baptize" means to immerse or punge into something. It is used to describe a garment being punged into dye to color it, for example. So, in the above verse: The word "baptize" doesn't just mean to immerse or plunge into "something." In its literal meaning it means to immerse or plunge into "water."
quote:
1. Who is the one doing the baptizing?
The Holy Spirit. In the Greek the phrase literally reads "in" one Spirit. So, I have questions as to whether or not the Holy Spirit is doing the baptizing or if He is the element into which we are baptized (figuratively speaking, of course ).
quote:
2. Who is being baptized?
All true believers in Jesus Christ, including the Thief on the Cross. This is absolutely true. Every single Christian has received the Holy Spirit. However, the thief, having died on the cross, was not a Christian since the church had not even been established yet. He was nevertheless saved.
quote:
3. What are we being immersed into?
The spiritual Body of Christ, the moment we genuinely receive Jesus as Lord. We are not physically being immersed into anything. It's a spiritual event in the life of every Christian. We are receiving the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit into our lives. That occurs, I believe, when we are baptized in water. And that is also when we become part of the spiritual Body of Christ.
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 12:01:54 AM
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VCO
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Baptize
BAP-tyz
To immerse; to dip or dye a thing.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-40)
—King James Dictionary
Baptize
Usage Number: A-1
Part Of Speech: Noun
Strong's Number: <G908>
Original Word: βάπτισμα, baptisma
Usage Notes: "baptism," consisting of the processes of immersion, submersion and emergence (from baptō, "to dip"), is used (a) of John's "baptism," (b) of Christian "baptism," see B. below; (c) of the overwhelming afflictions and judgments to which the Lord voluntarily submitted on the cross, e.g., Luke 12:50; (d) of the sufferings His followers would experience, not of a vicarious character, but in fellowship with the sufferings of their Master. Some mss. have the word in Matt. 20:22, 23; it is used in Mark 10:38, 39, with this meaning.
Usage Number: A-2
Part Of Speech: Noun
Strong's Number: <G909>
Original Word: βαπτισμός, baptismos
Usage Notes: as distinct from baptisma (the ordinance), is used of the "ceremonial washing of articles," Mark 7:4, 8, in some texts; Heb. 9:10; once in a general sense, Heb. 6:2. See WASHING.
Usage Number: A-3
Part Of Speech: Noun
Strong's Number: <G910>
Original Word: βαπτιστής, baptistēs
Usage Notes: "a baptist," is used only of John the Baptist, and only in the Synoptists, 14 times.
Usage Number: B-1
Part Of Speech: Verb
Strong's Number: <G907>
Original Word: βαπτίζω, baptizō
Usage Notes: "to baptize," primarily a frequentative form of baptō, "to dip," was used among the Greeks to signify the dyeing of a garment, or the drawing of water by dipping a vessel into another, etc. Plutarchus uses it of the drawing of wine by dipping the cup into the bowl (Alexis, 67) and Plato, metaphorically, of being overwhelmed with questions (Euthydemus, 277 D).
It is used in the NT in Luke 11:38 of washing oneself (as in 2 Kings 5:14, "dipped himself," Sept.); see also Isa. 21:4, lit., "lawlessness overwhelms me." In the early chapters of the four Gospels and in Acts 1:5; Acts 11:16; Acts 19:4, it is used of the rite performed by John the Baptist who called upon the people to repent that they might receive remission of sins. Those who obeyed came "confessing their sins," thus acknowledging their unfitness to be in the Messiah's coming kingdom. Distinct form this is the "baptism" enjoined by Christ, Matt. 28:19, a "baptism" to be undergone by believers, thus witnessing to their identification with Him in death, burial and resurrection, e.g., Acts 19:5; Rom. 6:3, 4; 1 Cor. 1:13-17; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12. The phrase in Matt. 28:19, "baptizing them into the Name" (RV; cp. Acts 8:16, RV), would indicate that the "baptized" person was closely bound to, or became the property of, the one into whose name he was "batized."
In Acts 22:16 it is used in the Middle Voice, in the command given to Saul of Tarsus, "arise and be baptize," the significance of the Middle Voice form being "get thyself baptized." The experience of those who were in the ark at the time of the Flood was a figure or type of the facts of spiritual death, burial, and resurrection, Christian "baptism" being an antitypon, "a corresponding type," a "like figure," 1 Pet. 3:21. Likewise the nation of Israel was figuratively baptized when made to pass through the Red Sea under the cloud, 1 Cor. 10:2. The verb is used metaphorically also in two distinct senses: firstly, of "baptism" by the Holy Spirit, which took place on the Day of Pentecost; secondly, of the calamity which would come upon the nation of the Jews, a "baptism" of the fire of Divine judgment for rejection of the will and word of God, Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16.
—Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words
Baptized by One Spirit
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. (12:13)
In this verse Paul presents two important truths about Christ's Body: its formation and its filling.
The Forming of the Body
The church is formed as believers are baptized by Christ with the Holy Spirit. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. The Holy Spirit is the agent of baptism but Christ is the baptizer. At Jesus' own baptism John the Baptist tells us that it is Jesus Christ, "He who is coming after me [and] is mightier than I," who would baptize "with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Matt. 3:11; cf. Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33). As explained in the following verse, the baptism of fire is the judgment of hell, the burning of "the chaff with unquenchable fire." As Savior, Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit; as Judge, He baptizes with fire. All believers receive baptism with the Holy Spirit; all unbelievers will receive baptism with fire. Therefore every living soul will be baptized by Christ.
Parenthetically, it should be noted that Paul is not speaking here of water baptism. Water baptism is an outward, physical ordinance believers submit to themselves and which is performed by other believers, in obedience to Christ's command (Matt. 28:19; cf. Acts 2:38). Water baptism plays no part in conversion, but is a testimony to the church and to the world of conversion that has already taken place inwardly. Spirit baptism, on the other hand, is entirely the work of God and is virtually synonymous with salvation. The term baptizō ("to baptize") is used in the New Testament to refer to figurative immersion in trouble (Matt. 20:22-23, kjv) or to spiritual immersion (Rom. 6:3-5) in Christ's death and resurrection. As one can be immersed in water, so a believer is immersed spiritually into the Body of Christ.
—MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The
After reading Dr. John MacArthur's comment here, I have to admit that there is a strong argument that Christ is the Baptizer, however, I still lean toward believing it is a Work of the Holy Spirit Himself, because of how it is worded in 1 Cor. 12:13. But still almost all Evangelical Theologians agree that it definately refers to being "immersed" into the Body of Christ. Bare in mind that after the Judgement, those cast into the Lake of Fire will be "Baptized in fire".
< Message edited by VCO -- 8/4/2008 12:14:11 AM >
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 3:48:06 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
1- What is the Baptism by the Holy Spirit?
According to Scripture, it is Christ who baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who then baptizes us into the Body of Christ. So the latter is baptism by the Holy Spirit.
quote:
2- Do we need to have it? If yes, Why?
Absolutely. Without the gift of the Holy Spirit we cannot be born again or receive the gift of eternal life. Without the baptism by the Holy Spirit we cannot become a part of the Body and Bride of Christ.
quote:
3- What are the advantages of this kind of Baptism? In what way will it make us better Christians. If we're unable to get it, will lack of it make us lousy or inadequate Christians?
It is the Holy Spirit Himself who empowers the Christian to live a life that is pleasing to God. It is God the Holy Spirit who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 7:34:41 AM
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greatdivide46
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VCO,
Having read your excerpts from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament words (a copy of which I have, myself), I find nothing there that I disagree with.
Your quotation from MacArthur, however, is another story. I believe he is correct when he says "a believer is immersed spiritually into the Body of Christ." That just backs up my claim that baptism by the Holy Spirit is a spiritual event and therefore the word "baptism" is being used figuratively when it refers to that event. However, if Paul does have a literal, physical baptism in mind, it has to be baptism in water, since that is the only physical baptism that occurs in a Christian's life. And, based on Acts 2:38, I see no reason why we can't receive the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized in water. So I would disagree with MacArthur when he says, "it should be noted that Paul is not speaking here of water baptism. Water baptism is an outward, physical ordinance believers submit to themselves and which is performed by other believers, in obedience to Christ's command (Matt. 28:19; cf. Acts 2:38). Water baptism plays no part in conversion, but is a testimony to the church and to the world of conversion that has already taken place inwardly."
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The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 8:17:20 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
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The Holy Spirit baptism, both in the Old Testament and the New, is a promis. Joel uttered a promise when he said that the HOly Spirit would be "poured out" upon all flesh. Peter claimed that it was fulfilled, or being fulfilled, on Pentecost. The Holy Spirit baptism was a "gift"; Peter refers to it in reporting what occurred at the house of Cornelius as a "gift." "If then God gave unto them the like gift as he did also unto us, when we believed on the LOrd Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God?" (Acts 11:17) Baptism of the Holy Spirit was promised, not only by the prophets, but by John the Baptist. (Matt 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16.) The Christ, while he was here on earth, also promised the baptism of the HOly Spirit. "For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the HOly Spirit not many days hence," said Jesus to his apostles just before he ascended to the Father. (Acts 1:5). This is what God had told John that JEsus would do. (John 1:33). So the baptism of the HOly Spirit was definitely a promise, and not a command; no one was ever commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit,. Baptism in water was a command, but baptism in the Holy Spirit was a promise. It was a definite promise to certain individuals; the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a limited promise; it was not for all men, though it should bless "all flesh." It was made to certain individuals to take place within a few days after Christ ascended.
Leo Boles The Holy Spirit. His Personality, Nature and Works
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 7:35:10 PM
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Shrommer
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In Acts there are baptisms contrasted.
Acts 18:24-28 speaks of Apollos who was teaching and proclaiming Christ and already knew the baptism of John (in water). Priscilla and Aquila explained to him the Word of God more correctly.
Then in Acts 19, there were other believers who had received the baptism of John. They were already disciples and believers, but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. When they received the Holy Spirit they spoke in other tongues, just as happens today to many people when we receive the Holy Spirit. I John 4:2 makes it sound like these believers already had the Spirit of God before they "received" the Spirit of God. I don't think we should split hairs about the terminology though.
I John 2:20-27 talks about the Spirit being "poured out" on us and teaching us everything so that we "do not need anyone to teach" us. I think this means that we can tell the truth from the lie. Other Scriptures clearly tell us that there are teachers in the body of Christ for our edification. We shouldn't ignore or devalue them with the attitude "I don't need a teacher".
Most people I know that talk about "being baptized in the Holy Spirit" use it interchangeably with "baptized by the Holy Spirit". They are usually people who have had an experience speaking in tongues, and an unusual sense of cleansing, empowerment, boldness, reassurance, love, vibrance, oneness with God, revelation, freedom, relationship, etc. Most of these people find their way to a charismatic of Pentecostal church if they are not there already. Some people use the term this way, even though they have not experienced anything like that yet.
The way to receive a baptism from God is by faith, not by trusting in experiences or looking for experiences. Signs will follow those who believe; it is not for the believer to follow after signs.
We are not to fear the Holy Spirit or His work in our life. In Luke, Jesus tells us "If you ask your earthly father for an egg, will he give you a scorpion? ... How much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit (good gifts) to those who ask Him!" Luke 11:3-13.
Ask. Be odedient, humble, submitting to God, trusting. By faith, believe that you receive the Holy Spirit, and follow God's leading. Your desire should be to be used by God, to enjoy Him, and to glorify Him. He will equip you to do exactly that.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 9:18:52 PM
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jn1010lf
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Hello Cloak
It might help to see it this way.
When one accepts Christ, like in a Billy Graham crusade, he is saved or born again. He believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and is saved. From that point on a person is indwelled by the Holy Spirit, since the Spirit does all work the Father directs.
Remember when Jesus was baptized in Water? He came up out of the water and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove. From that point on, Jesus the man recieved power to minister what the Father directe Him to do.
Now, in the closing of Luke and opening of Acts, Jesus instructed His disciples to wait in Jerusalem for ower from on high. That occured on the day of Pentecost. Ordinary people became epowered to do the things that Jesus did when He walked the earth in the body of a man.
This baptism in or of or by the Holy Spirit was repeated throught to book of Acts.
Now Paul teaches other aspects of this Baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, 13 & 14. He covers the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit in worship services and the personal prayer langauge.
Make sure you study the Bible for yourself because much of tradtional religion will teach against it. It's been my observation and experience can grow closer to God and learn to grasp better understanding of the Spirit world and how spiritual things affect life on earth. It also affords greater joy and deeper relationwhip with the Lord.
May the Lord enlighten you in your Bible study.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/4/2008 11:07:04 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Remember when Jesus was baptized in Water? He came up out of the water and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove. From that point on, Jesus the man recieved power to minister what the Father directe Him to do.
Wow. The Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove. And yet people today say that the Holy Spirit doesn't come upon us when we are baptized. Of course, I don't mean that we see a dove, like at Jesus' baptism, but I still believe that if the Holy Spirit came on Jesus at His baptism at water, there's no reason why He can't come upon us in ours.
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/9/2008 10:16:04 PM
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TJO5
Posts: 189
Joined: 12/1/2007
Status: offline
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I'm not sure how I missed this reply,but better late than never to respond I always say.
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Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit and that is not evidence that they did?
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quote:
MrFribbles
No, it's not. You'll notice it does not say, "And then they received the Holy Spirit, like Jesus just told them to."
It also didn't say something like. " I do this now so that when the promise does come you will remember it"; nor does it make any sense for Him to breathe on them then and tell them to receive something and then later to tell them to wait for the promise-. Why wouldn't He have told them then that they would have to wait?
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If you would read the rest of the chapter in context you would see that Jesus had already ascended to his Father at this point in the scripture.Earlier in the narrative Jesus told the women not to touch Him as he had not yet ascended,but in this portion of the story He invites them to touch Him.
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How can you say that Jesus has already ascended? Are you suggesting Jesus came back down to earth after the ascension?
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
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Are you aware that the word for spirit in greek (hebrew also) also can be translated wind or breath. When Jesus breathed on them He was transferring His Spirit/breath to them.
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So was the Holy Spirit coming out of Jesus with each breath during His earthly ministry?
That's a good question. If your asking it in good faith I would have to say that nowhere else is the same greek word used for breathed as in here and the scripture in Genesis where God bhreathed into man the breath of life so I wouldn't think so.
If you are asking as a means to belittle the argument that I already posted then it is a rather weak attempt to divert attention from what I did post.
The following site has alot of definitions of that type of exegetical fallacy.
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We are told to be filled with the Spirit-this is something that must be done continually.
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Well... Actually, assuming you're referring to Ephesians 5, I am of the opinion that we are told to be filled by the Spirit, not with Him. But that's a subject for a different thread.
Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
In- with- by. All valid translations. I'm not sure what other thread you think would be better for discussing the difference than this one though,as the with and by are central to the subject brought up by the OP.
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Here is an example from Acts 4- Peter and John have already received the baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 (where Peter,at that time filled with the Spirit speaks),and in this instance they pray and everyone is filled with the Holy Ghost-a new filling.
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Looking at the word "fill" there, we find that it is in the aorist tense, implying a past action. It could be that Luke here is reminding Theophilus, and us, by what means they were able to speak boldly - that is, the Holy Spirit, which they already had from a past action.
I don't see evidence of what you are saying here. Since the scripture here is a narrative it would be expected that the aorist ,passive ,indicative would be used to show that the action Luke described was a completed action. The action Luke described was past in the sense that is was completed when he recorded it.
Your attempt to relegate the aorist tense to equal the english past tense is incorrect.
Here is a fine greek grammar to explain such things.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/11/2008 12:58:09 PM
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TJO5
Posts: 189
Joined: 12/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
TJ,
Are you suggesting not every Christian has the Holy Spirit in them? Or perhaps that some Christians have a lesser quantity of the Spirit?
The reason I was looking through these posts and found the one that I had somehow missed is that I was looking for this post to ask a question of you based on what you wrote.
Do you feel that the Holy Spirit is some kind of impersonal force that comes forth from the Godhead so that some people can receive more of it?
I know that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that sort of thing.
But the Holy Spirit is not some sort of energy,but the third person of the Godhead.
I guess the best way I can think of to describe the difference between receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation and being baptized in the Holy Spirit is like the Jewish marriage ceremony.When you receive the Holy Spirit it is like the betrothal period where you are legally married, but do not physically dwell with your mate. Betrothal is so legally binding that you cannot get out of it without a divorce.
But the baptism is like the full marriage,when you dwell together and the two become one flesh.
The baptism is the point where you are so immersed in each other that your two wills become one,you trust and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you in everything that you do.
Perhaps not the most exact of analogies ,but it gives you the idea of how the baptism affects our relationship with the Holy Spirit.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/11/2008 1:41:55 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: offline
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I think that receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation and being baptized with the Holy Spirit is the same thing. People just use different words to describe it. There is no indication in scripture that there is more than one instance when the Holy Spirit indwells and regenerates the believer.
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body -- Jews or Greeks, slaves or free -- and all were made to drink of the Spirit.
All Christians have been baptized into one body in the Holy Spirit. All Christians have been made to drink of the Spirit. And Jesus says that whoever drinks of this water will never thirst again. There is not another time in our Christian life when we receive something different of the Holy Spirit. We get Him all when we receive Him at salvation.
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/22/2008 3:34:02 PM
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VCO
Posts: 114
Joined: 1/13/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
. . .
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For ("in"?) one Spirit we were all baptized into one body -- Jews or Greeks, slaves or free -- and all were made to drink of the Spirit.
All Christians have been baptized into one body in (?) the Holy Spirit. . . .
U&U
1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (NIV)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (GW)
13 By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (NLT)
13 Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into Christ's body by one Spirit, and we have all received the same Spirit.
Now what version were you quoting above? I could not find "in the Holy Spirit". There is a lot of confusion generated from the Charismatic side of Christianity leading people to believe we are immersed in the Holy Spirit during spiritual baptism (which many then associate with their "tongues" experience); when Scripture clearly states: "we have all been baptized into Christ's body by one Spirit".
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Titus 2:13
VCO
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/22/2008 6:06:32 PM
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