RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?help me
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:17:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
You certainly do not. It is refreshing to talk to someone who states beliefs and ask questions and are willing to listen to others answers with out condeming them.
Everyone that posts here has their own beliefs. I have mine and they are not going to be changed. I don't think anyone else is going to change their beliefs either and I am not rrying to change anyone.
So who is the one not willing to listen to others?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:26:14 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
You are correct to a certain degree. God created an angel named lucifer. Lucifer fell and rebelled against God and became known as satan. So yes in a way God created satan. But when first created lucifer was a good and trusted angel. As far as the serpent is concerned I believe it either was or was controled by satan. Satan had was already a fallen angel.
As to good not being able to exist without evil I disagree. Good comes from God and can exist without any contribution from satan.
If God only created good, then how would one (Lucifer) even begin to be, know or commit evil? God created ALL beings and things. He knows all movements and thoughts at the time of creation, before they have happened. Why then would he create such a wicked creature as Lucifer?
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
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In the dark? Follow the Son!
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:29:55 PM
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Qtman
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Again He did not. Lucifer was good when created. He was a angel in Heaven with God. It was lucifer that rebelled and fell. Did God know Lucifer would do this. I think so. Why would God create Lucifer if he knew he was going to become wicked. I don't know. Why did God create me when he knew I would fall into sin and only end up driving the nails into his Son's hands.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:33:02 PM
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raivyne
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I would contend that Lucifer's true heart was known at the time of creation and proved by his actions. If evil didn't exist, lucifer could not have commited evil acts. And if it existed there is only One who created it. At least that's the way I see it! :)
_____________________________
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In the dark? Follow the Son!
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:40:09 PM
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Qtman
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raivyne I would like to continue this conversation but we are only inviting trouble with the Moderators because it is way off topic. If you wish to start a thread about this we can continue the discussion or maybe through PM's but I think we had better stop on this thread.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:43:20 PM
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raivyne
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Probably a wise idea! Perhaps I'll start another topic for all to join in :)
Creating it in the "God" forum (mods if that's the wrong place my apologies please move it accordingly).
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 9:48:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Again He did not. Lucifer was good when created. He was a angel in Heaven with God. It was lucifer that rebelled and fell. Did God know Lucifer would do this. I think so. Why would God create Lucifer if he knew he was going to become wicked. I don't know. Why did God create me when he knew I would fall into sin and only end up driving the nails into his Son's hands.
He created Satan for a reason and with the full knowledge of what was to come... If not God is not in control of His own creation....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 10:19:52 PM
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Restored_Heart
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Sam.... I have truly been praying about how to answer your questions...
I have come to the conclusion that there are just things I have a hard time fathoming about God's Sovereignty....
I would consider myself reformed... so I would have to say God is in control - no matter what....
There is nothing I can do that will thwart God's purpose and plan....
So here are some of my thoughts.... such as they are....
God is the creator of all....
All humans are fallen.... babies are human....
Evil... good... aged... etc. They were all created according to God's good purpose - even if it doesn't seem fair or good to us... This is where the enormity of who God is begins to whonk my brain... 
I want all babies to be saved.... I cannot say that I know that they will... and that makes me sad. 
But I know that God has mercy on whom He has mercy....
I know that I feel like I chose God, but that I also know that I cannot do anything on my own....
So where does that leave me?
I am as free as God made me to be.... and I have to be ok with that.
I know that God used judgments that killed all of certain tribes, men, women, children, etc. I confess that I STILL have a hard time understanding that... but I know God used it for His purposes... and His purposes are ALWAYS good... though not always understandable.
I guess the operative answer is that I cannot in my frailty, fully understand how or why God does things.... I know what I want to be true, but I cannot with full confidence say that is how it works.
My God is too big for me to see clearly at times... He is awesome, scary, loving, merciful, unchanging, yet personal and even - oh so much more than that.
So will all babies go to heaven?
I don't know.... It is not up to me to know who goes and who doesn't - no matter what age they are - that is not up to me.
But
I know the One who does know.... and I trust Him. He will do what is just - by His standards and Will.
_____________________________
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 10:22:03 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
I know the One who does know.... and I trust Him. He will do what is just - by His standards and Will.
excellent post, I especially enjoyed this part.
~Blessings.
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 10:42:49 PM
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neuronstatic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
It is pretty hard to reconcile the idea that God created evil with James 1:13-18
I am working on a response to Qtman's questions at this moment. Yet I feel compelled to respond to your post.
I can see the point of view that would read James 1:13-18 in that way. And yet, I do not believe one can construe that passage to be an answer or discussion on the source of evil.
That passage discusses "temptation" and not simply "sin" or "evil". From that passage and its surrounding text we see Paul explaining what we can expect from God. And in that expectation, we see that if we ask of God in faith and humility, we can expect God to give generously. If we ask in doubt or lacking faith, then we can expect nothing.
But at no time can we expect temptation. God does not provide temptation. Temptation is often perceived as something external. But here God says that temptation is not from without, but from within. "14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. "
Simply put, that passage talks about the internal motivations of humans, not about God creating or not creating sin/evil.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/2/2008 11:20:57 PM
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neuronstatic
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First let me apologize for not having read the entire thread. My wife pointed me to this post and I read a good deal of the subsequent posts regarding it.
Yes I will probably replicate someone else's answers. Sorry, just answering the question from my own perspective.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
1. Where did God get the soul from?
God creates the soul of men (and women) in and of Himself. There is no oursourcing of the labor or materials. He does this as part of creating man. Consider that we are all made in His image. Not that we are some kind of genetic image, but made according to His "model of a living, thinking, being with a soul".
Yes we are made in His image. God talks about "His soul" in Scripture. God talks about "the souls of men" in Scripture. We have souls and we got them from God as part of the creative process.
I really like this verse in thinking about it:
Psalm 139:13-16
13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Your works, and my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
a. Does He have a warehouse full of souls and He just goes in and picks one?
b. Does He create a separate and individual soul for that particular baby?
See the above verses. God creates individuals, complete with everything they need according to His purposes. So I don't think that he has some ready-made souls on the shelf waiting for husks to put them in.
However, He is the master and creator of everything. He may do it that way. Is that important?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
c. When does He give that baby it's soul?
I know we are all taught to believe that the soul is somehow poured into the body with the initial creation of the human (i.e. conception). However, I am not sure the Scriptures support that notion. I would like to believe that God puts the soul in early. But as far as I know, He did not tell us such things in Scripture. And I would find it difficult to believe any human has received such special revelation on the subject.
So as to when the baby receives the soul, I can only say that I believe it to be while in the womb. Where Scripture remains silent, I find it a bit dodgy to not do so as well.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
d. If God creates the soul does He create one that is already stained with sin?
Although the Scriptures reference sin as "stain" and talk of "washing" away sins, let's not overuse the metaphor. Sin is not a stain or a thing or a place or a disease. It is a state of being that results in sinfulness. Allow me to explain.
We are all born into sin, as we all share in Adam's sin. This does not mean that I am born with the sin of defying God in the garden. It means that I am born with the predisposition to reject the rule of God and follow my own desires.
So I am born with the sin of rejecting God from the beginning.
So then, its not that God creates a soul "stained" with sin, He creates a human being, complete with a soul, in the condition of human beings that He has decided is best for His purposes. And that state of being is to be sinful. Therefore, we are born sinful because God creates us as fallen humans, and not something already perfected.
And to think on it, if we were born perfected, without sin, then why would anyone ever sin? Wouldn't we all be perfect and therefore Christ's work on the cross would be irrelevant? To start in a state of true sinlessness would seem to indicate that sin cannot enter, otherwise, the sinlessness is not perfected, and we are back to being born with a predisposition to sinning.
Why does God choose to do this? I don't know.
But what I can tell you is that He does and for some reason God finds greater glory for Himself and to Himself using this system than if He had created everyone perfect from the onset. Because we are created in this weakened state, then He reaches down and saves us, and we struggle all our lives to live for Him. Because of this, He is glorified all the more.
And to your final challenge about God creating anything "bad", I counter-challenge you to find Scriptural proof that anyone or anything can create something apart from the will and knowledge of God. 
Some final verses:
Ephesians 3:9
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
Collosians 1:16
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -- all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Revelations 4:11
11 "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created."
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 10:32:52 AM
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Qtman
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I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post and answer the questions. I can't say the answers come as a surprise. I have asked these same questions before and received substantially the same answers. I want to especially thank Restored_Heart for posting what is in my opinion the most straight forward and honest answer. If we are all honest with ourselves and each other all our answers would have been I don't know. The Bible does not say Babies go to heaven or Babies don't go to heaven. This is one of those questions we have to study the word and come to our own conclusions. My beliefs are based on years of study. BTW if you had asked these questions of me 30 years ago my answers would have been entirely different. I at one time did not believe babies automatically went to be with our Lord. That's right I, through study, have changed my beliefs on this subject. Am I right. I believe I am and I certainly hope I am. But, I will not know for a fact until I get to Heaven and see for myself.
With that said, when we get to heaven will it really matter to any of us. The Bible teaches there will be no heartache, grief, pain, etc, in Heaven. Therefore I can't imagine we will spend any time fretting over who is not there. We will be to busy rejoicing and praising God.
Blessings to all.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 12:08:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post and answer the questions. I can't say the answers come as a surprise. I have asked these same questions before and received substantially the same answers. I want to especially thank Restored_Heart for posting what is in my opinion the most straight forward and honest answer. If we are all honest with ourselves and each other all our answers would have been I don't know. The Bible does not say Babies go to heaven or Babies don't go to heaven. This is one of those questions we have to study the word and come to our own conclusions. My beliefs are based on years of study. BTW if you had asked these questions of me 30 years ago my answers would have been entirely different. I at one time did not believe babies automatically went to be with our Lord. That's right I, through study, have changed my beliefs on this subject. Am I right. I believe I am and I certainly hope I am. But, I will not know for a fact until I get to Heaven and see for myself.
Since there is no verse that says they are as group in heaven no amount of study can amount to them being there. If one wants to be honest about this subject the belief they are there is mostly founded in the desire of them to be there because of how people view babies emotionally not the scriptures. And that is supported in this very thread and the dozen or so threads I have been part on the subject over the years I have been on this forum. As well, those who demand that man must choose God and have man as the determining factor regarding salvation truly put babies and infants in a corner and I believe that is many time the where the emotional outburst aspect comes from, since an honest look into that dilemma should cause one to be frustrated.
There is no definitive evidence babies and or infants are saved apart from the spelled out plan of salvation so what this really comes down to is people have to really look at their view of salvation and it troubles them... So the escape is declare a portion of mankind apart from itself subject only to God's mercy, and somehow apart from the consequences of the fall of man... Any doctrine that has you better off to die before before coming to the truth of Christ one should be skeptical of, even in the case of baby and infant salvation... I honestly can't get past that... Nor has anyone explained the implications of the flood and acts like what took place in Jericho regarding babies and justice.
I truly believe the most honest answer is that salvation is in the hand of God regardless of age...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 12:55:03 PM
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mcleod
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quote:
There is no definitive evidence babies and or infants are saved apart from the spelled out plan of salvation so what this really comes down to is people have to really look at their view of salvation and it troubles them... So the escape is declare a portion of mankind apart from itself subject only to God's mercy, and somehow apart from the consequences of the fall of man... Any doctrine that has you better off to die before before coming to the truth of Christ one should be skeptical of, even in the case of baby and infant salvation... I honestly can't get past that... Nor has anyone explained the implications of the flood and acts like what took place in Jericho regarding babies and justice.
I truly believe the most honest answer is that salvation is in the hand of God regardless of age...
So maybe you ought put these words to heart;" workout your salvation with fear and trembling." Since you are having great thoughts about wrath from God.
I just don't understand what is so great about this evil land that everybody wants to jounery on it. Paul was between a rock and a hard place for he wanted to depart and be with Christ. Which he wrote;" which is better by far." Which he said to the Phillipians in his letter. So let see, I wish to be with my Lord and saviour. But I also have a mission to do here on earth while I am here. So right now I look to a promise that Jesus made to us. That if we be faithful in him in all things. Then we will win the race which has been set before us to win.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 1:45:57 PM
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Qtman
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Obviously someone is going to take exception to anything I say. Even a post just saying Thank you and admitting I may be wrong so I think it best that I just mosey along.
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~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 9:08:03 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
So maybe you ought put these words to heart;" workout your salvation with fear and trembling." Since you are having great thoughts about wrath from God.
Other than your issue with my understanding of God's wrath what does the above have to do with the thread?
quote:
I just don't understand what is so great about this evil land that everybody wants to jounery on it. Paul was between a rock and a hard place for he wanted to depart and be with Christ. Which he wrote;" which is better by far." Which he said to the Phillipians in his letter. So let see, I wish to be with my Lord and saviour. But I also have a mission to do here on earth while I am here. So right now I look to a promise that Jesus made to us. That if we be faithful in him in all things. Then we will win the race which has been set before us to win.
Paul knew He would suffer for the sake of the elect... Suffrage most here can't even fathom....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 9:20:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Obviously someone is going to take exception to anything I say. Even a post just saying Thank you and admitting I may be wrong so I think it best that I just mosey along.
Using your post to make my points is just that... This is a forum and people respond to posts. Nothing hostile was said and or implied so I don't understand why people can't understand that when they post people can and do reply... It seems you want to have a closing statement on the issue and no one is allowed to have theirs, or respond... I simply used your post and some of the points you mentioned to make mine...Nothing more nothing less... I haven't said your points are stupid, or they don't have merit I simply have another view and posted it... And if your post was simply saying thank you and that you might be wrong there would have been nothing for me to use...
If you wish I would like to hear your view the implications(or lack thereof) of the flood and acts like what took place in Jericho regarding babies and justice.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 9:57:35 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2831
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post and answer the questions. I can't say the answers come as a surprise. I have asked these same questions before and received substantially the same answers. I want to especially thank Restored_Heart for posting what is in my opinion the most straight forward and honest answer. If we are all honest with ourselves and each other all our answers would have been I don't know. The Bible does not say Babies go to heaven or Babies don't go to heaven. This is one of those questions we have to study the word and come to our own conclusions. My beliefs are based on years of study. BTW if you had asked these questions of me 30 years ago my answers would have been entirely different. I at one time did not believe babies automatically went to be with our Lord. That's right I, through study, have changed my beliefs on this subject. Am I right. I believe I am and I certainly hope I am. But, I will not know for a fact until I get to Heaven and see for myself.
Since there is no verse that says they are as group in heaven no amount of study can amount to them being there. If one wants to be honest about this subject the belief they are there is mostly founded in the desire of them to be there because of how people view babies emotionally not the scriptures. And that is supported in this very thread and the dozen or so threads I have been part on the subject over the years I have been on this forum. As well, those who demand that man must choose God and have man as the determining factor regarding salvation truly put babies and infants in a corner and I believe that is many time the where the emotional outburst aspect comes from, since an honest look into that dilemma should cause one to be frustrated.
There is no definitive evidence babies and or infants are saved apart from the spelled out plan of salvation so what this really comes down to is people have to really look at their view of salvation and it troubles them... So the escape is declare a portion of mankind apart from itself subject only to God's mercy, and somehow apart from the consequences of the fall of man... Any doctrine that has you better off to die before before coming to the truth of Christ one should be skeptical of, even in the case of baby and infant salvation... I honestly can't get past that... Nor has anyone explained the implications of the flood and acts like what took place in Jericho regarding babies and justice.
I truly believe the most honest answer is that salvation is in the hand of God regardless of age...
Actually, that is not quite accurate. The bible does speak of children being sanctified through their parents in 1 Co. 7, in the passage that speaks of the situation where a spouse is married to an unbeliever.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 9:59:48 PM
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Qtman
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Thats is exactly what I am talking about John. I try to just say bye and leave and you have to make a long post about that also. I am not the one that wants the final word in anything. But I am quite tired of saying something(anything) and seeing it picked apart one line at a time with the same of talk. So I tell you what. I am going to say bye to you and this thread. Then if it's possible you can simply say by and we will end this on a civil level.
I love you as a Christian Brother.
By John
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/3/2008 11:00:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Thats is exactly what I am talking about John. I try to just say bye and leave and you have to make a long post about that also. I am not the one that wants the final word in anything. But I am quite tired of saying something(anything) and seeing it picked apart one line at a time with the same of talk. So I tell you what. I am going to say bye to you and this thread. Then if it's possible you can simply say by and we will end this on a civil level.
People post, people respond.. It's a forum. If one it tired of having what they post picked apart they should consider not posting... I don't like certain things other people do, but hey I choose to post so I can't complain when they respond even if they are off base... One entitled to express their views and give their parting shots, but as well one is just as entitled to respond. As for ending this on a civil level... Civility was never an issue as far as I was concerned...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/11/2008 8:16:01 AM
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nettiel
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yes that baby is saved and with god that baby has no sin.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/11/2008 9:47:08 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 47
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post and answer the questions. I can't say the answers come as a surprise. I have asked these same questions before and received substantially the same answers. I want to especially thank Restored_Heart for posting what is in my opinion the most straight forward and honest answer. If we are all honest with ourselves and each other all our answers would have been I don't know. The Bible does not say Babies go to heaven or Babies don't go to heaven. This is one of those questions we have to study the word and come to our own conclusions. My beliefs are based on years of study. BTW if you had asked these questions of me 30 years ago my answers would have been entirely different. I at one time did not believe babies automatically went to be with our Lord. That's right I, through study, have changed my beliefs on this subject. Am I right. I believe I am and I certainly hope I am. But, I will not know for a fact until I get to Heaven and see for myself.
With that said, when we get to heaven will it really matter to any of us. The Bible teaches there will be no heartache, grief, pain, etc, in Heaven. Therefore I can't imagine we will spend any time fretting over who is not there. We will be to busy rejoicing and praising God.
Blessings to all.
I have to disagree. The Bible does say that babies go to heaven. Jesus himself says, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10)
Their "angels," which can be demonstrated to be their spirits by context and comparison (cf. Acts 12:15), are always beholding the face of Father God, whom we all must agree is, in fact, in heaven, which puts the "little ones" there also by default of context.
It can be further inferred that since Jesus had not yet died for anyone's sins, and speaks of the little ones' angels in a present tense, that the little ones were already there without the saving grace of the cross. i.e. they are either innocent of sin, or not held accountable to it without understanding (for those that choose to believe in original sin).
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/11/2008 10:15:05 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10089
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post and answer the questions. I can't say the answers come as a surprise. I have asked these same questions before and received substantially the same answers. I want to especially thank Restored_Heart for posting what is in my opinion the most straight forward and honest answer. If we are all honest with ourselves and each other all our answers would have been I don't know. The Bible does not say Babies go to heaven or Babies don't go to heaven. This is one of those questions we have to study the word and come to our own conclusions. My beliefs are based on years of study. BTW if you had asked these questions of me 30 years ago my answers would have been entirely different. I at one time did not believe babies automatically went to be with our Lord. That's right I, through study, have changed my beliefs on this subject. Am I right. I believe I am and I certainly hope I am. But, I will not know for a fact until I get to Heaven and see for myself.
With that said, when we get to heaven will it really matter to any of us. The Bible teaches there will be no heartache, grief, pain, etc, in Heaven. Therefore I can't imagine we will spend any time fretting over who is not there. We will be to busy rejoicing and praising God.
Blessings to all.
I have to disagree. The Bible does say that babies go to heaven. Jesus himself says, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10)
Their "angels," which can be demonstrated to be their spirits by context and comparison (cf. Acts 12:15), are always beholding the face of Father God, whom we all must agree is, in fact, in heaven, which puts the "little ones" there also by default of context.
It can be further inferred that since Jesus had not yet died for anyone's sins, and speaks of the little ones' angels in a present tense, that the little ones were already there without the saving grace of the cross. i.e. they are either innocent of sin, or not held accountable to it without understanding (for those that choose to believe in original sin).
First of all my friend you are preaching to the choir. I have consistently said babies go to heaven. Either through being innocent and sinl | | |
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I have respect for your opinion even if I see a few things differently. I hope I don't come off as otherwise. 