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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/4/2008 7:28:05 PM
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Raptorman
Posts: 114
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From: Colorado
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Sorry to resurrect this discussion, but I just wanted to put in a couple of afterthoughts:
First, a correction to something I had said: "Marrying and giving in marriage" apparently means not a beginning and end of marriage, but of someone getting married, and later in life giving their children in marriage. Sorry for the mistake.
Second, some here have stated that marriage/sex are somehow less spiritual or godly because they largely involve the physical world, and are not quite as "transcendent" as the more lofty ideals of Christian worship, and thus they will be less likely to persist in the afterlife. Along with my previous points that heaven itself will have a physical component, I would like to submit a quote from Francis Schaeffer, in his 1973 book, "Art and the Bible":
"How often do Christians think of sexual matters as something second-rate. Never, never, never should we do so, according to the Word of God. The whole man is made to love God; each aspect of man's nature is to be given its proper place. That includes the sexual relationship, that tremendous relationship of one man to one woman. At the very beginning God brought Eve to man. A love poem can thus be beautiful."
In this work and elsewhere, Schaeffer makes a solid case that the split in contemporary Christianity between the spiritual and the worldly is a false dichotomy. Thus it is incorrect to claim that something (like marriage, or sex, or food, or movies, or novels, or art) will automatically be abolished from heaven, entirely because it was "worldly," or insufficiently "spiritual." We know a lot less than we think we do about what the afterlife holds for Christ's followers.
_____________________________
"Satan himself trembles when the weakest saint is on his knees."
-Unknown
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."
-Gandalf, "Lord of the Rings"
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/4/2008 9:42:12 PM
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Bluethread
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I'm not sure we are addressing the point here. Marrage is a contract for mutual preservation here on earth. That is one person is accepting responsibility for the other person. Now, in most cases this is not required of us, so there is no reason for a contract. We are to act in a charitable fashion and be our brother's keeper, but there is no need for a contractual obligation. The reason for a marrage contract, is because that, unlike other relationships, in an intimate male/female relationship there are consequences that can follow. Those are disease and children. Now, there are other possible relationships that can result in disease. However, one need not engage in those activities.
We tend to (roman)ticize the subject of marrage as if it is about how one feels toward another. Admittedly without these feelings and drives, we would probably not have children. However, it is not those feelings and drives that require a marrage contract. Feelings ands drives can be taken care of by several means that do not have the above mentioned consequences. However, the least complicated way for procreation to take place is through an intimate male/female relationship. Therefore, the primary purposes of a marrage are to hold the participants of an intimate male/female relationship responsible for their actions, the protecting and nurturing of children, and the protection of society as a whole from being adversely effected by those children. These purposes are necessary and can not really be avoided, for we have been commanded to procreate. Also, there has yet to be developed an alternative method that does not involve less risk to everyone involved.
Now all of the above mentioned goods that are exclusive to marrage are related to life here on earth. In heaven there is no reason to limit ones intimate relationships, because that which differentiates the necessary intimate male/female relationship from all other intimate relationships is not a factor. One is not treatened by the actions of the other and one's actions are not a threat the others either. Therefore, the question of to whom one is married in heaven is not a problem for those who believe it the resurrection. This last, after all was the point of inquiry in the passage mentioned in other posts.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/4/2008 11:22:20 PM
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Fledgling
Posts: 71
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quote:
Therefore, the primary purposes of a marrage are to hold the participants of an intimate male/female relationship responsible for their actions, the protecting and nurturing of children, and the protection of society as a whole from being adversely effected by those children.
Does this mean that if you are beyond child bearing age or can not have children then marriage is not necessary for and intimate male/female relationship?
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/5/2008 6:55:01 PM
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Raptorman
Posts: 114
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From: Colorado
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Thank you for the comments, Bluethread. I appreciate the points. Perhaps, though, I should point out that those are not the only reasons for marriage. God created romantic affection for our enjoyment, as well as the other kinds of love. Today we place romance on a much higher level than it should be, but that doesn't mean it's ungodly or unspiritual or unimportant. Many older societies did not value it as much as we do, focusing more on marriage's practical or societal aspects, but that's their loss. And while we will not be found wanting for anything in heaven, I am (from this side of the afterlife, of course) hoping that genuine romance, and the way it connects two specific people, will not disappear when God's kingdom is established for the rest of eternity. Even if we currently don't know any purposes in heaven that marriage must serve (or at least we don't know of many functions which couldn't also be served by some other sort of human fellowship), we must all remember that our view of heaven is but a tenuous pattern of fleeting shadows. We still have precious little idea as to what God has prepared for us, or the opportunities we will be provided in our true home. Marriage may be featured in that celestial architecture for our lives in paradise, or perhaps not. In all likelihood, we'll all have to wait and see. Still, it's fun to speculate and ask questions right now. 
_____________________________
"Satan himself trembles when the weakest saint is on his knees."
-Unknown
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."
-Gandalf, "Lord of the Rings"
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/9/2008 8:29:35 PM
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existential
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As I see it life is romantic and in that, I have a romantic relationship with Jesus. God will make a new heaven and earth and the New Jerusalem will be brought to dwell on the new (remade) earth on which we will live forever. Life will be just like this, generally speaking, minus sin and the affects thereof.
I do not believe that the next life will be an abstraction of this one but rather a continuum. God is not some kind of nut job that carries out experiments with His creation. Good is good and that is good enough.
Finally, whatever IS IS because it IS. That goes for the next life whether one of you are right or I am, but none of us can change what is because it IS.
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/9/2008 8:39:23 PM
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1love1God1way
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I always thought of marriage as a means of which we can better understand Christ's love for us (love your spouse as Christ loves the church), and in that, in heaven, surrounded by perfect love, would no longer need marriage.
This isn't to say that is the extent of marriage, but based on that aspect, I find it rather nullified in heaven.
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love.ben
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/18/2008 12:27:44 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1767
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy
Again, then what?
God established unity between Adam and Eve in His perfect plan before the fall. He saw that it was good, especially in a perfect environment. Why wouldn't the new earth be anything like the period of the Garden of Eden?
It would appear from what few Scriptures we have on the subject that the earthly marriage relationship will not continue as such in Heaven, since every believer enters into a higher "marriage" -- marriage with the Lamb. While this is metaphorical, we cannot fully understand what it entails because we cannot fully understand relationships in Heaven. Every soul and spirit will be in perfect union and communion with God. This is "fellowship" with God and with the Lamb.
At the same time, since fellowship with one another is stressed equally, God will make provision for that also. We are not told what our relationship with our spouses will become in Heaven, but God certainly has a plan for that form of "fellowship" also. We need not speculate, since there is enough to do while we are on earth.
As to the new earth, it is distinct from the heavenly Jerusalem, and will be inhabited with redeemed humans. Which means that there will be marriages in the new earth which are not marred by sin. There will be nations on earth, and Israel will be the prime nation according to all the prophecies we have. That's because Christ will be in the midst of her.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/28/2008 7:57:02 AM
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rezfamilies
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Joined: 4/3/2008
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In case anyone is still reading, a positive (though possibly speculative) case can be made that male-female relationships similar to marital bonds can continue between the redeemed into the next life. This may then also imply a romantic, physical or even sexual aspect in such a relationship.
Below are some websites that make this positive case (across Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant strands of Christianity). Each website does deal with the marriage pericope of Mt 22 to a lesser or greater degree -
1. http://rezfamilies.googlepages.com
2. http://www.ewtn.org/library/Marriage/zmarrheavn.htm
3. http://members.aol.com/johnodhner/Marriageinheaven.html
4. Meyendorff's book
Whether you find these arguments convincing is ultimately up to you.
PS. please note according to historic Christian doctrine, the next life involves the resurrection, which is physical in nature, and is not to be identified with "heaven" (where the redeemed go after death to await future physical resurrection of their bodies) - please see this link for more explanation -
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1710844,00.html
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RE: Marriage in Heaven? - 10/28/2008 4:41:47 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1432
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fledgling
Does this mean that if you are beyond child bearing age or can not have children then marriage is not necessary for an intimate male/female relationship?
That depends on various factors. If you are talking about two people who are beyond child bearing age or can not have children, who have no living children, and do not have any intent on adopting. Then there is also the problem with disease. The exchange of bodily fluids necessitates personal responsibility. Also, as the examples of Sarah and Hannah show us, nothing is impossible for Adoani. Therefore, we can not refuse recognition of marrage among the barren.
Now regarding those who wish take offence at my disregarding romance as a reason for marrage. I did say, that romance is a good thing. It just does not necessitate marrage as long as there is no exchange of bodily fluids. In fact, the example of unrequited love is proof that romance does not necessitate marrage. If one person can refrain from the exchange of bodily fluids, then two people can also. Also, if one insists on romance as a proximate requirement for marrage, one would have to acknowledge the necessity of marrage in cases of homosexuality and even beastiality, if one can determine consent on the part of the beast. Due to the rules of this site, apart from diffentiation relevant to the point between male/female romance and other forms of affection, this latter is to be discussed in other threads.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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