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Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:37:54 PM
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Archangel10
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I used to be a staunch Damnationist from 1979. Around 1989 after continuing deeper in The Word, I slowly became a Christian Universsalist.
There are many scriptures I could spin off on, one of my faves is Acts 3:21 where it speaks of the Restoration of all things...not some things. Which, within the context, if the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, that "in thy seed shall ALL people be blessed".
Much more to come if you can handle it... 
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:42:01 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, that "in thy seed shall ALL people be blessed".
I'm pretty sure that it says all nations shall be blessed, not all people. Or, in those translations where "people" is used, it is using it not to speak of all individuals, but rather all people groups. This lines up with the concept that God's word will reach all corners of the globe before He returns again.
I wonder, Archangel, what your take on the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 is.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:47:24 PM
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Archangel10
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Matthew 25:46 is the company line for damnationists. As posted in elsewhere, the greek word Aionios which means "Ages" has been tortuouly tranlated with the word 'eternal'. As for the Devil and his angels, are you ready for the spiritual translation rather than the carnal translation?
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:49:20 PM
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MrFribbles
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I'm interested as to which Lexicon you're using, Archangel. But please, elaborate on this spiritual translation
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:52:27 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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Unless you repent you will all likewise perish..... I mean why would He give warnings to people if there was no reason too. The bible talks more about hell than heaven.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:55:11 PM
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Archangel10
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The Devil = The Old Man = Adam = The Earthly Nature = Carnal Nature
Angels means "messangers". There are many messangers in the world and church emanating the carnal nature rather than the Holy Spirit.
You can deny this...and at the same time, its true anyway.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 1:57:28 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
You can deny this...and at the same time, its true anyway.
That's an arrogant attitude to have, friend. If all you're going to do is stop up your ears and not listen to anyone else's opinion (which is the attitude I'm getting from what I quoted there), then why should any dialogue with you?
Anyhow, are you denying the existence of angels as spiritual beings, as well as the existence of Satan as an individual spiritual being?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:02:21 PM
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Archangel10
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Arrogant or Straight forward...i notice you conveniently do not answer. I don't deny the existence of Satan or angels as spirutal beings...are you a Spiritual Being?
Jesus said unto Peter..."Get behind me Satan". If does not say, Jesus said unto Satan behind,under, or off to the side of Peter... 
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:08:18 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Archangel10 -
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:08:56 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Arrogant or Straight forward
Those two are not mutually exclusive. If I were to say (humorously, in my case) that I can, with no outside help, beat up my school's entire football team, I would be straight forward and arrogant - and in my case, exceedingly foolish, if the football team tried to test my claim.
quote:
i notice you conveniently do not answer.
Answer what? If you asked a question, I missed it.
quote:
I don't deny the existence of Satan or angels as spirutal beings...are you a Spiritual Being?
No, I am a physical being with a physical body. Spiritual beings lack a physical body. That doesn't mean I have no perception or interaction with spiritual beings, or that I do not have a spirit, but I am certainly not spiritual in nature - i.e., as said before, I have physical components.
quote:
Jesus said unto Peter..."Get behind me Satan".
So do you believe Christ had a carnal nature? Or was there someone else out there in the desert when He was tempted?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:18:45 PM
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Archangel10
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Jesus was tempted in all manners that we are tempted, yes he lived in a physical = earthly body and was tempted...but did not give into the temptation, but conquered it through the Word of God.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:21:34 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Jesus was tempted in all manners that we are tempted, yes he lived in a physical = earthly body and was tempted...but did not give into the temptation, but conquered it through the Word of God.
Now who's not answering, friend? I asked about a specific temptation - that which took place in the desert, where another speaking character appears in the narrative. Either this "character" is Jesus' carnal nature (something I do not believe He had), another person (going back to your idea that it was Peter's "Satan" that Jesus was talking to), or a real, spirit-being devil.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:28:44 PM
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Archangel10
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Was Jesus tempted in all manners such as we are...Yes or No?
Do you believe that when He was in the desert fasting...there was a voice within himself that said turn the stones to bread? If you don't then you don't believe He was being tempted in all manners such as we are..
Have you ever fasted and been tempted to break the fast before you wanted to?
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:32:05 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Was Jesus tempted in all manners such as we are...Yes or No?
Yes.
quote:
Do you believe that when He was in the desert fasting...there was a voice within himself that said turn the stones to bread? If you don't then you don't believe He was being tempted in all manners such as we are..
That may be, but that does not explain away the distinct second voice which appears in Scripture. It says Satan came to Him, and then later departed from Him during this narrative - did some internal part of Him come along and then leave?
quote:
Have you ever fasted and been tempted to break the fast before you wanted to?
Not especially, no. But I've also not fasted as often as perhaps I ought to.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:36:32 PM
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Archangel10
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Yes, I do believe that His earthly nature came and left...and then after the fast He returned in the power of the Spirit.
Jesus was tempted just as we are...I have never had some "Supernatural Red Devil" appear to me have you?
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:40:25 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Yes, I do believe that His earthly nature came and left
Then how can you say He was tempted just as we are? Unless we two have this ability, to make our natures come and go as we please.
quote:
I have never had some "Supernatural Red Devil" appear to me have you?
Jesus being tempted just as we are does not exclude temptations above and beyond what we face. Tell me, have you ever had to go willingly to your death to save your enemies? I doubt it. Yet Christ was faced with that situation, and tempted to back down. In the same way, while the devil has not appeared to me personally as it did to Him, I do believe that demonic spiritual forces have influenced, and sometimes sparked, my temptations.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:43:19 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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What about in the book of Job when Satan is talking to God about Job,. So you are telling me that God the Father which Satan was talking to in the book Job was really not Satan but His own fleshly sinful desires talking to Him. If that is the case then you are saying that God is not perfect and that God has to struggle with sinning. If you are saying that then may God show you mercy.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:43:56 PM
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Archangel10
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In your walk with Jesus, you are called to put on the new man...does your old man seem to get in the way?
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:45:51 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
In your walk with Jesus, you are called to put on the new man...does your old man seem to get in the way?
The old man is dead, so, no, it doesn't. The flesh is still there, but the flesh and the old man are different. The old man is what I have been equating with your use of "carnal nature." I do believe that Christ had, and struggled with, His flesh while here on earth, but not a carnal nature, or "old man".
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:47:55 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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Archangel10 explain this to me.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:48:50 PM
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Archangel10
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The Old Man is not dead, it is very much alive...this is why people still die in the world and church, because they live after the flesh.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:50:18 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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Arch please explain these verses in Job to me.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:50:34 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1629
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
The Old Man is not dead, it is very much alive
Please provide a Scriptural reference for this statement.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 2:54:28 PM
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Archangel10
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Check out Romans 7 for starters:
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
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