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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 9:37:49 AM
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garsyt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
For example I was told to shut my child up when we were waiting at the pharmacy one time. I had all four of my kids with me and they were all 7 and younger and two of them were miserable with ear infections. We had come straight from the dr's office to the pharmacy and I just couldn't leave any of them with a sitter because there were none available. So yes they were miserable and crying and fussy, but I had no choice. And there was NO way I was going to discipline a child because they were in pain. That makes no sense.
I don't like making others listen to my kids throw a fit, but at the same time all I ask for is a little understanding and compassion. Parenting isn't easy
Blessings,
Garsy
1). Incident at the Pharmacy--If your child is screaming at the top of their little lungs, and is clearly being a HUGE annoynace to the others around you, then it is YOUR job as the parent to shut the kid up, regardless of the cause. Child hurting or not, pain is not an excuse to let your kid act out in public.
2). "Parenting isn't easy"--Actually it is, a parents job is guided entirely upon God given instincts.
First of all MY children were NOT screaming but the were fussy and uncomfortable and crying and on the verge of losing it. And there was NO WAY on Earth I was going to do anything to a baby that was just barely 6 months old and in pain! She wouldn't have understood anyway! My older child had just turned 2 and while he would have understood and KNEW very well that Mama meant business when he misbehaved - No I couldn't have disciplined him because his pain was the issue and he wasn't crying and fussy just to be bad.
AND I WAS doing something about it. I WAS there to get the medication that would SOLVE the problem. I couldn't depend on my husband to get it for me as he was out of town on a business trip. I couldn't depend on someone else watching my kids as all my sitters were either in school themselves and the two adults I trusted enough with my kids at the time were unavailable and I would consider it child abuse to make my children wait any longer then ABSOLUTELY necessary for some medication that would elevate their pain. I suppose I could have left them ALL in the car but then there the likelyhood that someone would have turned me in for child abuse and I would have lost my children to the foster care system, or been kept under the thumb of CPS for years. No Thanks!
And I'll give that a parent's job is guided by God given instincts. THAT day GOD was telling me that the best thing to do was to ignore the complaints of those who had NO CLUE and focus on getting my children the medication they needed.
Parenting isn't easy. ASK your own parents. And if they tell you it was all roses and cupcakes and that you never once acted out in public, it's either they are lying to you or they have selective memory loss.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 9:48:04 AM
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garsyt
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Another instance.
My family and I were waiting for a table at a local Bob Evans one time. I haven't a clue how old my little guy was at the time but he wasn't much over 2. We were waiting outside so we were allowing the kids to walk back and forth between the adults in our party (my inlaws and my SIL's). They were NOT blocking the sidewalk and NOT getting in the way of other customers coming or going from the store. So my little guy trips and bumps his head on a nearby paper box - the kind you see outside of grocery stores and restaurants and he starts crying rather loudly. He had just gotten hurt and I had picked him up and was checking his bump when this man and his wife came out of the restaurant and cursed at me and my son, telling me to shut my blankety blank child up, that he was disrupting his entire meal and that children shouldn't be seen OR heard in public at all. I didn't know what to say to such an attack! My hubby followed him to his car to ask what the deal was but I was shocked that someone would attack a child and their parents that way without knowing what the problem was. And there was NO way my child could have disrupted his entire meal because we had barely been there 5 minutes before this happened and this man was ON his way OUT of the store already.
Some people just need to get over themselves and stop thinking that parents are just out to make their lives miserable.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 10:24:55 AM
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RichLP
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Since this thread was inspired on mine, let me give in my two cents based on my experiences.
I have been to some restaurants where I see parents doing nothing to stop children from running around. Personally, as someone who waited tables at one point, I find that irresponsible and even dangerous, not to mention infuriating. I often had to dodge 2, 3 year old children whose parents apparently failed to understand that a restaurant is a place of business, not a playground. And even though there are many eateries today geared for families and for children, restaurants are NOT places for very young children to run!
While dodging those active bundles of joy, I carried trays with 2 or 3 dinner entrees. Chicken, meat, and even bowls with soup - all very hot. What if some kid hit my leg, I lost my balance, and the food all fell on the floor? That in itself would have been bad - my boss would have reprimanded or even fired me; the full price for the lost food would have been deducted from my paycheck/tips; I would have had to clean up the mess; a new order would have had to be placed, making the customers waiting even longer.
Now WHAT IF THE HOT SOUP fell on the child?
Let me take this to another angle. I enjoy all sorts of food, and one ethnic cuisine I sometimes eat involves barbecuing your meat at your own table. This in turn necessitates busboys to bring metal containers at least 12 inches long and several inches wide - containers full of red-hot charcoal. The waiters need to be careful, as there are other waiters moving around taking orders and busboys cleaning tables. AND YET I HAVE SEEN PARENTS EATING WHILE THEIR TOTS RUN AROUND!!!!!
Not to mention when I've been to bars where some customers have a little to much to drink and end up displaying behavior unfit for children - and where CHILDREN are present.
The point I am trying to make is that I give every parent here the benefit of the doubt. I've already stated I have no parenting experience, and my observations and babysitting experiences offer a very tiny glimpse of the massive responsibilities innate to parenthood. But I will also say common sense goes a long way. I may be annoyed by a tot screaming; I may become frustrated by some kid banging his fork on the table nearby; I will definitely get angry if some young child sneaks under my table out of nowhere (yes, it's happened) when I'm out at dinner w/ friends or a date. But what irks me the most is when parents let their children run around unsurpervised in places of business and then wonder why their kid slipped on a wet spot on the floor, banged themselves on the knee of a tall, incoming waiter who was very busy during peak hour, or gets yelled at by some gruffy customer who doesn't necessarily like children, but whose private eating area was invaded by a tot whose parents should have restrained him.
I know children are children. They don't have judgment and common sense. They act naturally. They will scream and cry - but I agree with the person who spoke about how it is in Germany. Some places are best off without children, and while I appreciate it that sometimes parents just don't find caretakers, I think that there ARE parents who do not always exercise the best judgment in choosing where to take their chidren.
I hope I don't offend anybody by saying this, and I will never say parenting is easy, because merely seeing my married friends, I'm almost afraid of having my own kids. But parents should be held responsible when their kids are out of line - as should bystander adults who are unnecessarily rude to parents and their children when children have not really misbehaved. Yes, I've seen that too, and it's ugly and unfair.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 10:30:21 AM
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manda59
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Rich
Thought this was about children having "tantrums", not running around.
Children having an emotional overload (which is what I consider most "tantrums" to be) is way different.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 10:34:08 AM
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isaacsmom
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quote:
For those of you who have children who are over-emotional at times... if your child is throwing a tantrum that lasts more than a few minutes, don't you think it's best to remove them from the situation, at least long enough to attempt to calm down?
I have pretty laid-back kiddos (and I don't take that for granted) so they haven't thrown any tantrums in public. However, there have been times when they've gotten upset or been on the verge of misbehaving and I immediately remove them from the situation and take control of it from there. Sometimes it warrants discipline, other times they are just tired/hungry/cooped up, etc. and I need to take them outside to run around.
I do remember a couple of times when my son and daughter were nursing infants and toward the end of a shopping trip they'd be getting hungry/fussy and would be crying at the checkout. I have always received grace from others in line and from the cashier. I know I've been lucky there. I'm not sure how I'd react to someone attacking me like garsy's experience. It probably wouldn't be pretty . . . . . .
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 10:35:14 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Rich
Thought this was about children having "tantrums", not running around.
Children having an emotional overload (which is what I consider most "tantrums" to be) is way different.
Fair enough, but both tantrums and children running around where they shouldn't involve parental oversight.
All I'm saying is, parents need to think for the children as well.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:03:33 AM
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stellaluna
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Sweetpea came on strong and I certainly don't agree that parenting is easy, but using some common sense in this thread...
1) anyone with more than two brain cells can tell the difference between a fussy child and a child having a tantrum
2) likewise, anyone with more than two brain cells can distinguish between an infant crying for lack of a better way to communicate and an older child screaming because they're mad
3) fussy children are often fussy for the same reasons adults are: they don't feel well, they are tired or hungry, they DON'T LIKE WAL-MART 
4) getting upset at the checkout means you are about to leave...who cares if a kid is freaking out at the check out? if you do, get over yourself
I'm sorry, but a child screaming at the top of their lungs/throwing a tantrum doesn't fall into any of those categories and it is difficult when you are attempting to not get to number 3 yourself, as an adult, to have a child disrupting your environment and a parent trying to ignore it. More than 15 minutes, in my opinion, is really too long to have to listen to someone else's kid. And all I'm suggesting is that the child be taken outside in an attempt to calm him or her down.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:07:04 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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Well, any parent can stop a kid from running around, but you can't really make a child stop throwing a tantrum. Trying frequently makes it worse, as the kid then knows he has power over you. Got ya just where he wants ya.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:27:53 AM
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GregandJenny
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quote:
1). Incident at the Pharmacy--If your child is screaming at the top of their little lungs, and is clearly being a HUGE annoynace to the others around you, then it is YOUR job as the parent to shut the kid up, regardless of the cause. Child hurting or not, pain is not an excuse to let your kid act out in public.
I don't think screaming in pain is acting out. I think it is inconsiderate of you to suggest a parent to shut a kid up for acting out when obviously they are getting medicine to make the child well.
mind you were not talking about a restaurant where you're paying money to eat and relax were talking about a chore getting, getting some pills. In fact I would rather listen to a screaming child in a pharmacy then have someone caugh and sneeze on me.
quote:
You don't need to have a kid to know how to raise one. It's all God given instincts and common sense. Unfortunately, not everyone has the latter.
WOW. What an insult.
I am gonna tell you this, almost every post on this forum made by these parents (I am not a parent yet) show that they care and they want the best for their children not just in this moment, but for this life. They strive to raise their children in the ways of the Lord.
If you don't know that you haven't been around here long enough to say anything. Oh and your post count only says 18 posts. Hmmmm.
G
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:39:34 AM
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Mrs.X
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I agree with Ruth, there are places that just aren't for young kids. Movie theaters, concerts, etc. My oldest has always been a very good restaurant kid, so back when we had money, we would take him to nicer restaurants. He rarely throws a fit or gets fussy in public (except for Hot Wheels at checkout, but we don't go to that grocery store anymore). My youngest, however is just not a good restaurant kid (he must be be able to get down when he is done eating), so we don't go to restaurants with him. Except McDonalds Playplace because there children can run around.
I think that lady who came in here and flamed Garsy for the pharmacy incident, MUST be joking, so I won't even acknowledge what she said to me. My guess is that if Jesus were there at the pharmacy right then, he might have tried to cheer the kids up.....or just healed them. LOL
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A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:39:47 AM
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doinkdom
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My daughter pitched more than one tantrum as a child (a total of 5 comes to mind). If she had a tantrum in public...well, let's just say that we were very familar with every bathroom in every store we ever went into.  And, I did leave a full cart of groceries one time to deal with her.
Tantrums are rebellion in an almost pure form imo, so how does God deal with our rebellion? I know I've thrown many a tantrum even as an adult.  Well, one of the consequences of our rebellion is we place ourselves outside God's presence (figuratively speaking) and when we come to our senses, we want to be back in His presence.
So, when dealing with tantrums, my daughter was placed in isolation - meaning no interaction or stimulation at all. When she "came to her senses" her greatest desire was my forgiveness of her behavior and we walked that out based on her age and understanding. Depending on the circumstance, there might also need to be some additional consequence.
Regarding restaurants...if one is set up as "family" dining, then there will be kids. I agree the kids should not be running around - go to McD's for that - but the fussing and such will still happen, but we should be aware of that when going inside to eat. So no surprises there.
I was at a never-ending check-out line Wal-Mart one time when a child was truly pitching a tantrum over mom saying he could not have a candy bar. He went on for nearly 20 minutes while she waited. As she was trying to hold this kid in place and put her items on the counter, I asked her if I could help out in any way. She smiled and said thank you as I placed her items on the counter for her. She was just miserable. It was kinda sad.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:49:13 AM
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zoebob
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I don't think anyone here has said that children should be allowed to run around uncontrolled in places of leisure/entertainment: such as nice restaurants, movies, etc.
However, there are times when things need to get done and can't be put off. SOmetimes mom has to get groceries and it has to happen then. SOmetimes we have to wait at a pharmacy, etc. I think expecting sick children at a pharmacy to be happy and pleasant would be like expecting to go to a dr. and not find a sick person.
Even slighlty older children can have a bad day in public. Example, my dd was about 6. I did not have a car. My husband was gone for more than 12 hours a day at work over an hour away. We had just told the children we would be moving several hours away from the only home the 6 yr old had ever known. We had to go out of town the next day for some reason (house hunting or something). I had borrowed a relatives car to run to the grocery store for things I needed for that night and the trip. DD had a melt down near the check out. Maybe she wanted a candy bar or something. I don't even remember. She was too big to pick up and carry out: I physically couldn't do it. NOt to mention I had a 3 year old and a cart of groceries I had paid for. ALl I could do was stand there between the check out and the door and try to calm her down. SHe was emotionally drained from the news of moving. Physically drained from other errands we had to run that day in the borrowed car, etc.
Fortunately people were sympathetic to me.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 12:50:22 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
I think that lady who came in here and flamed Garsy for the pharmacy incident, MUST be joking, so I won't even acknowledge what she said to me. My guess is that if Jesus were there at the pharmacy right then, he might have tried to cheer the kids up.....or just healed them. LOL
Thanks Stina!
You would not believe how hard it was for me to hold it together that day. All night up with the kids, emergency dr visit, and a trip to the only blasted pharmacy that took our insurance at the time and they didn't have a drive-up or I would have used it. Oh and the trouble figuring out which med would work as I have a child with medication allergies too. If Jesus had walked into that pharmacy that day and laid his hands on my kids and healed them - it is likely you would not have been able to drag me away from his feet for NOTHING!
SweetPea - since you seem to have things all figured out, HOW would have YOU dealt with that situation given the above information, and the fact that the two in pain were 6 months and almost 2 at the time, and both in severe pain with double ear infections?
I'm serious here. I want to know how easy it is.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 1:04:06 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
A spin-off of Rich's thread: For those of you who have children who are over-emotional at times... if your child is throwing a tantrum that lasts more than a few minutes, don't you think it's best to remove them from the situation, at least long enough to attempt to calm down?
Please note: I am pretty laid back when it comes to fit-throwing and I really like kids and they really like me and I understand better than some that they are little individuals, not just dolls or parent clones. I also understand what it's like to be overstimulated, frustrated, etc. HOWEVER, I also don't like my shopping disrupted for a full half hour or longer. Plus, I really don't know that I can be convinced that letting a child scream for that long is good for the child, for the parent, or for anyone within a half-mile radius. 
I used to be very judgemental on high needs toddlers. My son was so easy and I was young. I thought all kids were like my son. Then I had my sweetheart. She does not have fits often but she does when she is tired or our usual day is all mixed up. I have yet to figure out what to do when she is really bad since it only happened twice. We live an hour outside of town so it is not like I can just take her home and go later. I often go shopping with my daughter while DS is at school and DH is at work. It has to be done then. The only thing I can think of is if DD is making a lot of noise and people do not like it, oh well life if full of things we do not like.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 1:08:55 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4259
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
SweetPea - since you seem to have things all figured out, HOW would have YOU dealt with that situation given the above information, and the fact that the two in pain were 6 months and almost 2 at the time, and both in severe pain with double ear infections?
I'm serious here. I want to know how easy it is.
Blessings,
Garsy
I dunno about sweetpea, but I would ventiure a guess at their answer with duct tape
Seriously, I'm not sure you can avoid these kinds of situations all the time and I don't think those here are concerned with the occasional child issue. I think we're talking about the extremes of just blatant bad behavior without boundaries.
I bet if a young mother called you and had a similar situation with sick children, you would probably volunteer to at least keep the 2 healthy kids with you while she went to the dr. and then dealt with the 2 sick kids at the pharmacy. Just cause you've been there, done that and have the stains to prove it.
I know when I am off work at home, my friends with kids know that and that I am available to help them out with sitting or fetching or whatever...cause I remember what it was like, too.
I suppose that's why I'm more apt to offer a hand in a check-out line or reach out an arm to catch an escaped child in a restaurant...I remember
It's not meant to insult someone's parenting style, it's just to let them know they're not alone.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 1:17:45 PM
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Kat_D
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I see lots of reasons given for temper tantrums and excuses for them in this thread, but to me most have missed the greatest contributing factor which is the sin nature in all children.
IMO, Doinkdom nailed it here:
quote:
Tantrums are rebellion in an almost pure form imo, so how does God deal with our rebellion? I know I've thrown many a tantrum even as an adult. Well, one of the consequences of our rebellion is we place ourselves outside God's presence (figuratively speaking) and when we come to our senses, we want to be back in His presence.
So, when dealing with tantrums, my daughter was placed in isolation - meaning no interaction or stimulation at all. When she "came to her senses" her greatest desire was my forgiveness of her behavior and we walked that out based on her age and understanding. Depending on the circumstance, there might also need to be some additional consequence.
Great post Doinky!
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 1:25:23 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
I bet if a young mother called you and had a similar situation with sick children, you would probably volunteer to at least keep the 2 healthy kids with you while she went to the dr. and then dealt with the 2 sick kids at the pharmacy. Just cause you've been there, done that and have the stains to prove it.
You're right. In fact I'd likely keep them all simply because I've been there, and I would have taken the time to meet her at the doc's office so she could go to the pharmacy in peace, even if it were just for a few moments.
quote:
1) anyone with more than two brain cells can tell the difference between a fussy child and a child having a tantrum
There are times when I don't think there are very many folks out there that can tell the difference between a child having a tantrum and a happy content child, singing "Jesus loves me."
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 1:42:05 PM
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IonMoon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
A spin-off of Rich's thread: For those of you who have children who are over-emotional at times... if your child is throwing a tantrum that lasts more than a few minutes, don't you think it's best to remove them from the situation, at least long enough to attempt to calm down?
If in public, I always took my kids out after seconds of tantruming. Not for their sake, but the sake of all the other people around. At home, I ignored them.
Tara P
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 1:55:57 PM
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peculiar_lady2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Rich
Thought this was about children having "tantrums", not running around.
Children having an emotional overload (which is what I consider most "tantrums" to be) is way different.
Fair enough, but both tantrums and children running around where they shouldn't involve parental oversight.
All I'm saying is, parents need to think for the children as well.
no they don't... I agree with you on the kids running around in areas where it isn't appropriate...and I can assure you that my kids are NEVER allowed to do that (and yes, I can say that with certainty...I strap them into high chairs until they are old enough to understand the appropriateness of a restaurant versus a place like McDonald's with a play area). I can see how that could be "parental oversight" to allow your kids to do that. However, I do not agree about tantrums being a parental oversight situation. As has been pointed out many times, you can't just turn your kids off when you want to...they are their own person and they have their own emotions. They have to learn to deal with those emotions on their own and in their own way. No amount of parenting can MAKE a child deal with things before they are ready to do so.
quote:
More than 15 minutes, in my opinion, is really too long to have to listen to someone else's kid. And all I'm suggesting is that the child be taken outside in an attempt to calm him or her down.
...in some instances that is a time frame that can not be met...I have never been able to get through a check out at the grocery store in that amount of time...usually it's more like 30 minutes...and on payday weekends we are talking at least 45 minutes.
Kat & Doikdom.....
not every child responds to things the same way....that way might work for some, but for others it is giving them exactly what they wanted and that isn't teaching them that their rebellion won't fly, instead if it feeding into it.
I also do not agree that every tantrum is out of rebellion....I have seen too many with my kids to believe that EVERY TIME it is rebellion....there are many other factors that have been brought up in here already that could actually be the root cause of the tantrum....some of which would be.....
physically tired, emotionally exhausted, not understanding the situation, being sick....
I would not say that EVERY situation is caused by rebellion....sometimes the root problem is one of the heart, but sometimes it's not.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 2:04:35 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 9503
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
Status: offline
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I've got the most delightful, red-headed, strong-willed child who could throw the biggest fit you'd never want to see. I don't know that he ever spent an entire half-hour having a tantrum but, then again, he's the reason I lost my mind so maybe I don't remember.
I do remember that leaving wasn't an option. I had x number of minutes once a week to get groceries and he had to go with me. There simply was no other choice. And paying attention to the hissy fit, including taking him somewhere else to calm him down, just reinforced the behavior.
See, some kids, from a very early age, wake up in the morning knowing just exactly where you've tied your goat and spend the entire day endeavoring to get it. The only thing they want is to mess up what you want to do. THAT is the objective. Not the toy or candybar or whatever else it is that they use to start the sequence. So, if you leave the store without your groceries or whatever, they win.
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This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 2:04:50 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4229
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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You missed what I said here:
quote:
4) getting upset at the checkout means you are about to leave...who cares if a kid is freaking out at the check out? if you do, get over yourself
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Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 2:36:31 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4259
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
Kat & Doikdom.....
not every child responds to things the same way....that way might work for some, but for others it is giving them exactly what they wanted and that isn't teaching them that their rebellion won't fly, instead if it feeding into it.
I also do not agree that every tantrum is out of rebellion....I have seen too many with my kids to believe that EVERY TIME it is rebellion....there are many other factors that have been brought up in here already that could actually be the root cause of the tantrum....some of which would be.....
physically tired, emotionally exhausted, not understanding the situation, being sick....
I would not say that EVERY situation is caused by rebellion....sometimes the root problem is one of the heart, but sometimes it's not.[/color]
What better opportunity to teach a child about self-control and work on our natural selfish nature? Maybe that's just me.
Anyways...Each parental unit is different, therefore each disciplinary method is different and besides, diversity in the body is aways good.
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