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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 8:08:32 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Joy, I didn't the whole entire post because I have the attention span of a 2 year old. But are we in that dreaded "list" discussion.
Perhaps, he didn't' have a list because there was no option to choose from. Now that we have so many options, it's our responsibility to make the best choice possible for us....and that's where the list comes from. As I previously mentioned, part of my list is a man who is active and outdoorsy. If a man does not possess that quality, I won't recognize whether he's right for me or not, because, I won't even give him a second look.
Wisdom is knowing how to effectively use the knowledge that God has given us. I don't believe that people do not have a list when it comes to selecting a mate. It might be deep down in your subconscious, but it's there nonetheless.
Great post PH!
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 9:48:37 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
I don't see this at all. I see God bring Adam a four legged beast with udders and horns and Adam saying "Yup that's a cow!" Whole process took about 20 seconds or so. Nowhere does it say he got to know the animals (that would have been abomination) I will have to disagree with you here.......In the bible a name is not just a name but it is the identity of the person or thing named........God often changes names when gives people or things a new identity.......I don't think Adam just named the animals as we would name a pet......I think he chose their identify when he gave them their name.
PN no the discussion is not about a list but where did we get the idea that there is only one mate for each of us......I think maybe the place we get it is from Adam and Eve.......
Eve was not giving her name, her identity, until Adam named her...and he did not have a name planned ahead for her........it was when he saw her, when God presented her to him, that he saw her and gave her a name.........I think that is what God does with us..........we can meet lots of men and enjoy them........they can be wonderful, Christians, but I think only by getting to know someone well enough to know them by name can we really know whether their name is a part of our name.......
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Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 9:57:50 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
Wisdom is knowing how to effectively use the knowledge that God has given us. I don't believe that people do not have a list when it comes to selecting a mate. It might be deep down in your subconscious, but it's there nonetheless.
_____________________________ I am not disputing we all have some type of list, even if it is subconscious, what I am questioning is whether it is wise to use that list as our guide........
Wisdom from learning God's word, from living life, and walking with the Lord is to be valued.......This I too agree with.....
Yet as I read these words I can't get Joshua 9 out of my mind.......a while back, in response to a thread, God showed me how important it is......even when we have wisdom and have studied God's word it is to still seek His voice......
Joshua, who had studied, meditated on, and knew God's law forward and backward plus had such a relationship with the Lord that God speaking to him was not unusual made a decision which put him in disobedience to the Lord. He made the decision based on his wisdom, of which had shown over and over, yet this time, unlike the past, he relied on his wisdom alone and did not consult the voice of the Lord.
I am not saying we should not use our wisdom, intelligence, emotions or our experiences.......but to make such a decision without seeking the voice of the Lord would be unwise even for the wisest of men.....
Because though God may not have just one person for us.......he already knows who that one person is for this period in our lives.......and what may seem like the wisest choice by us may not be due to our limited vision.......
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 10:01:42 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
I am not saying we should not use our wisdom, intelligence, emotions or our experiences.......but to make such a decision without seeking the voice of the Lord would be unwise even for the wisest of men.....
Because though God may not have just one person for us.......he already knows who that one person is for this period in our lives.......and what may seem like the wisest choice by us may not be due to our limited vision.......
No one ever said that those who have lists (and that's all of us) are not seeking the Lord on those lists. I've prayed over mine ("Is this really necessary to me?", "Am I missing something?" etc)
It's kind of hard to get what you want if you don't know what that is. And to get that you have to know what's really really important to you.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 10:10:57 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
It's kind of hard to get what you want if you don't know what that is. And to get that you have to know what's really really important to you. I understand what you are saying.....I do.....I just don't see things the way you do......to me the value of a man is not determined by things of this world.......
Yes there are things I would like in a husband........but I know those things, though would be nice, are not my hearts desire.......I know my hearts desire is to marry a man who walks under open heavens.......who's greatest desire is to buid the Lord's temple(the spiritual) while depending on the Lord to build his house(his life)....
My hearts desire is to marry a man who will come along side me as I come along side him as we both work on building God's temple........and I believe there is only one man out there........who God has aready gone ahead of and prepared his path to merge with mine so that as we are both walking our paths we will end up walking the same path......
does any of this make sense or am I too tired and my mind too absent to be making sense?
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 10:25:00 PM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
My hearts desire is to marry a man who will come along side me as I come along side him as we both work on building God's temple........and I believe there is only one man out there.
So, Joy, what does this man look like? What does "building God's temple" mean? How can a man manifest this? THere must be something he does that would indicate that he is "walking in the Lord" as you put it. For you to recognize this man, then, he has to meet some requirements that you have set up (in your head). That is what I mean by the list. I think if you breakdown what your description of what you're looking for, you'll find out that you'll come up with all sorts of qualities of what you're looking for in a man. Hence, the list.
_____________________________
but those who hope in the LORD
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint....Isaiah 40: 31
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/17/2008 10:46:15 PM
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joy2give2u
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PH I said in my previous post that I have a list.....I agree that everyone does to a degree.......but the things on my list are not my qualifiers.......in that when I met a man I don't disqualify him because he does not match up with what I think I want or need in a man....
You and I both love to hike...I remember when I hiked up to reflection lake up past the tree line in the sierra's the trail I took, as I was hiking up one of the trails in Kings canyon for the most part there were no other parties on the trail........but at one point there is a gate on the trail which signals the end of the national park even though the trail continues up to the lake.......
On this trail were several other trails, which started in different parks, miles from where I started, yet up near the top they merged into the trail I was following.....one such trail had another gentleman......
Before I saw him I did not know him name or anything about him......I had wondered if I would run into someone from one of the other trails but did not have a preconceived idea of what he would look or be like.......
When his trail merged with my trail I knew, as soon as he joined me on my mine, that we would do the rest of the trip together......that we would reach the high sierra lake walking the same trail side by side......
Now I didn't know he was on that path, nor did I know any of the things which had happened in his life to get him to that point.....and I had no clue what he looked like or what his character was like.......but I knew that God knew he was on a path which would merge with mine and that their was only one trail so in God's timing we were both at the trail merge at the same time.......
This is how I think it will be with the man I marry.......and when his trail merges with mine I will know that he is the one I will climb to the top with......
Does that make sense.........I know my mind is not focused so I am probably not making sense.....
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 10:24:33 AM
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John_O
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So joy, to get back on topic, are there any number of men on different trails that would merge with yours at some point or is there only one?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 1:27:22 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
So joy, to get back on topic, are there any number of men on different trails that would merge with yours at some point or is there only one? On the trip I was referring to there were several other men/women who also climbed to reflection lake at the same time........some were ahead of and some where behind ……..we never came along side each other as we hiked...even though we did end up at the same place........
A few men took the different trails which merged with my trail.........but only one man's trail merged with mine at the exact time I was at the point where they merged...........He was walking his trail as I was walking mine then our trails merged and we both continued walking along side each other...........Until our trails merged he didn’t have a name and I knew nothing of the trail he had hiked to get to this point……… we finished the hike together............to me this is a great picture of how I think it works with the Lord.
As I am sitting here thinking about it I marvel at God's perfect timing...........Think about it......I started in King's Canyon, hiked many switch backs, crossed white water on downed logs and was on the trail for two nights before my trail merged with his..........and S.....he started on a different trail.......many, many miles from where I started......he traveled past different things, had actually spent four days on the trail already since his route was longer, and went a pace much different then mine.........yet despite all the variables which could have prevented us for being at the same place at the same time we ended up at the merge at the exact time….........wow almost seems like someone pre arranged the meeting.
Another thing which is amazing me........when he started the climb his goal, his focus, was on reaching lake reflection..........mine was the same........our paths to that goal seemed so very different............ neither of us planned on hiking with the other......neither of us sought out the other……and not once did our focus change from reaching out goal…….. Yet perfect timing placed us on the same path which merged our individual journeys into one hiked together.
You know until posting today I have never really thought about how truly amazing God's timing is......and what it looks like with two paths merge into one and two begin to walk as one towards the Lord........very cool picture for me.
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 1:40:29 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
So joy, to get back on topic, are there any number of men on different trails that would merge with yours at some point or is there only one?
A few men took the different trails which merged with my trail.........but only one man's trail merged with mine at the exact time I was at the point where they merged...........He was walking his trail as I was walking mine then our trails merged and we both continued walking along side each other...........Until our trails merged he didn’t have a name and I knew nothing of the trail he had hiked to get to this point………
Sure he did, you just didn't know it.
So Joy, to get back on topic, are there any number of men on different trails that would merge with yours at some point or is there only one?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 1:42:37 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
So Joy, to get back on topic, are there any number of men on different trails that would merge with yours at some point or is there only one? I answered that question on my last post? Did you not understand my answer?
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 1:59:26 PM
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trainfan
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This thread really got me thinking about this and where I stand on the topic.
When I first thought about it I thought the idea of having one person who was made essentially just for each of us sounded rather self-centered. It is a wonderful idea but why would God make someone just for each one of us? We are here to serve Him not for Him to serve us.
Then the whole issue, which has already been pointed out, crops up what if I missed the “one” somehow? What if I met them when I was too immature to realize it? What if I felt they were the “one” and they didn’t feel I was the “one” and married someone else? Do I wait for their spouse to die? What if they moved away and I let them go? If I do meet the “one” how will I know? How can I be sure? What if I decide this person is the “one” and later realize, I was wrong? What about those who lost their spouses? So much pressure and so many things to think about!
There really is no scriptural support for there being “one” for us, aside from Isaac and Rebekah. In fact many men in the Bible had multiple wives including Isaac’s son Jacob along with David and Solomon to name a few. So how does that fit into the idea of there being just “one”?
Now on the other side of the coin he made each one of us and we are all unique so why couldn’t he make someone uniquely for each one of us? He could easily do that.
This passage from Psalms 139 came to mind as I was thinking about this topic.
quote:
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. God knew us before we were born so He would have to know who are parents would be. It is all in His plan.
With this that in mind I was thinking back on my life while I got ready for work this morning. I couldn’t help but realize how God has woven all kinds of different experiences into my life to make me into who I am today and who I will become in the future. In fact there are things that happened before I was born that make me who I am today and there will be things that happen today that will effect who I am in the future. Many times these experiences don’t make any sense at the time but in hindsight you can see how they work together. Why couldn’t God be doing the same thing with someone whose life will mesh with mine? Maybe He is getting me prepared to meet the “one”.
Another passage came to mind it is Proverbs 18:22
quote:
He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.
Hmm.... Sounds like we need to be looking! It doesn’t say that this person will just drop out of the sky, it also doesn’t say if there is only one to look for. But in the Proverbs passage lies what I think is the most dangerous part of the idea of there being just “one”. Many people use the “one” idea as an excuse to sit and wait where the passage clearly says “he who finds”, to find something you have to look for it. If I lost my job I am not going to find a new one sitting at home and waiting for the phone to ring or a knock on the door with someone offering me a job. I have to go look for it. If I lost my keys I have to go look for them they aren’t going to magically come floating through the air to where I am sitting.
I am still not sure if there is just “one” person made just for me. There very well could be but maybe not maybe I need to work on becoming the “one” for someone else by preparing for marriage.
Then I had this thought what if there is more that one “one”? What if we are given multiple chances at this? After all look at your life, how many times do you mess up and God always takes you back? Maybe you had a chance to have that person you met in high school be the “one” for you but you were too immature to realize it at the time. Maybe you had another chance in college to have that person you were dating to be the “one” but you thought the grass was greener with someone else and the “one” ended up marrying someone else. Maybe you had another chance at church with the person you met there to be the “one” but they got a job in another state and moved away. Maybe you were married to the “one” and they passed away. Regardless of what is in the past maybe your next chance to find the “one” is just around the corner.
I just hope and pray I realize what I have when I meet someone who could be the “one”.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 2:30:37 PM
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joy2give2u
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Great post Trainfan..........
I know some don't get what I am saying when I explain my views but I really don't know how to explain them without explaing them as I see them.......make sense.........so here goes an experience which shaped my thinking about there being just one............which to me addresses some of what you said trainfan....about whether if there is just one we could miss them.
The other night I was leaving the coffee house from study. As is my habit I glanced up at the sky, looking for the moon, as soon as I stepped outside.
She was not hard to miss.....
The sky was jet black with many, many clouds from Ike robbing the stars from my site........but not the moon.
She was full and very visible because for some reason (I am sure for God's reasons) the dark clouds were not covering the moon but forming a circle around her.
She was bright white and full of light.......the clouds circling closest to her were sheer and as brightly white as was the moon....then a huge ring of color, a rainbow in reds, burgundy, and deep purple, circled around her........
At the very bottom of the moon, was a gap in the outer ring, a slight space where the red rainbow started and ended, which was pure white....almost like a white link holding the beginning and end of the rainbow together, joining them to make a circle.....the circle of life.
As I was looking at the picture God had painted before me..........I heard God sharing something with me..........
What I was seeing, the picture I was looking at, was one he had drawn to explain to me some questions I have been curious about........
In the picture he explained my life is the colorful circle around the moon and he is the moon.....
Before I am he is.....the bright white light at the beginning of my journey........from birth I begin moving around the ring, over the rainbow until at the end of my life I once again walk into the life of where I began....in Him......
As I walk around this outer circle.......the circle of my life........I am always rotating around him........he can see what I am doing at three o'clock just as clearly as he can see what I am doing at nine o'clock......and because he is not limited by time.......he sees nine ac lock at the same time as 3 o'clock.
So do I think there is one man at 12 o'clock and only one.......yes I do because I believe though I can't see it........God already knows what is going to happen at 12........he already knows exactly who I am going to marry, when and where...........so I believe that God has one man for me because he has already gone a head and prepared the path for our two lives to merge at his chosen spot along the ring of life..........
Do I believe other men will come and go in my life......yes........do I believe there could be a man for at two ac lock and then if he passed away there would be no one else........no because God already sees my entire life.........from the moment I walked out of the light and began my journey on earth until I walk back into the light..........
I wish I could show you a painting of what I saw.......it would make this more understandable.........
I believe there is "one" man already chosen by the Lord for me........and I believe he was chosen before I was born.....because I believe God already sees the entire circle of my life.......and nothing in it surprises him........or is unexpected.........does this make sense?
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 2:40:43 PM
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jesuschick247
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quote:
I believe there is "one" man already chosen by the Lord for me........and I believe he was chosen before I was born.....because I believe God already sees the entire circle of my life.......and nothing in it surprises him........or is unexpected.........does this make sense?
That's a really good way to put it! I believe though that people can choose not to follow God's plans for their life too, mostly because I have been right in the middle of that happening, twice...long story, but the moral is I survived and there is still a special someone is still out there waiting for me. No, he may not be who I would have picked out, but he will be the one I am truly meant to spend forever with. I have already known for a long time that I am going to marry a singer/minister, one night when we were praying at the altar a few weeks ago I had a vision of my husband bending over a keyboard playing and singing his heart out, I didn't see his face or what he looked like, but I know deep down in the depths of my soul, he is out there. The key for me to find him is to serve God and capture the heart of God and in doing that, I will capture the heart of whatever guy I am supposed to be with, it's as simple as that in my eyes.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 2:46:11 PM
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raivyne
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joy do you mean that meeting this man was a divine appointment of some kind?
This gets tricky for me. I firmly believe that God knows all and sees all things, even future things. It is up to us to choose what to do, whom to marry, be friends with etc. Ultimately He knows the choices we will make, but does that mean our choice is gone? I could (and often do) go around and around in my head with this issue.
I think we have divine appointments, but we choose our course of action. There is a plan for our life, but we choose how we get there or if we get there at all. When I was younger I believed in the whole "soul mate"/"the one" philosophy... but I do not think that way anymore. I believe there are many people we could be compatible with and happy with, but in the end we decide whom that will be.
I hope that makes sense.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 3:11:57 PM
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joy2give2u
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rainyne.........no I believe we have free choice........I believe as my life circles around him......the things I do in the wide colorful rainbow are my own choices and I believe the hills and valleys I climb as I circle around him are determined by my free will.......just as I believe the timing is dictated by my obedience........but at the same time I believe the gravity pull of his light keeps us moving in the ring around him..........I also believe he allows and disallows things in our life in order to direct or guide us towards the path he has already prepared for us........
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Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 3:46:51 PM
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raivyne
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gotcha! thanks for clarifying
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 4:18:18 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
Great post Trainfan..........
I agree.
OK Joy, Good clarification. So you believe that there is only one for any particular moment (or time frame). I also agree.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 4:20:54 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
I think we have divine appointments, but we choose our course of action. There is a plan for our life, but we choose how we get there or if we get there at all. When I was younger I believed in the whole "soul mate"/"the one" philosophy... but I do not think that way anymore. I believe there are many people we could be compatible with and happy with, but in the end we decide whom that will be.
Nothing destroys your belief in the concpet of "the one" more than being young and widowered (or widowed). God is not cruel.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 4:47:54 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
I think we have divine appointments, but we choose our course of action. There is a plan for our life, but we choose how we get there or if we get there at all. When I was younger I believed in the whole "soul mate"/"the one" philosophy... but I do not think that way anymore. I believe there are many people we could be compatible with and happy with, but in the end we decide whom that will be.
Nothing destroys your belief in the concpet of "the one" more than being young and widowered (or widowed). God is not cruel.
I couldn't imagine that sort of loss. I'm sorry that happened to you. You are right though, God is not cruel - so far from it. :)
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God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 6:47:08 PM
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vikingfan
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I am not sure if there is one specific girl out there for me. What I do know that it is such a momentous decision that I need God's instruction and direction. Just because I like a girl and she is a a Christian is not good enough... I need specific discernment and wisdom. John 15:5 is good for this. We can do nothing without Christ, much less finding someone for us.
So in short, I am not sure, but I think of it this way: God wants us being totally dependent on Him for this momentous decision and timing. When we are listening to Him and following His lead, He will show us the way that we should go. He knows everything already, including who we will marry (if we are meant to) but if we are not obedient, then we will miss out on the good things He has for us.
and trainfan, great post!
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 9:40:41 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8064
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vikingfan
I am not sure if there is one specific girl out there for me. What I do know that it is such a momentous decision that I need God's instruction and direction. Just because I like a girl and she is a a Christian is not good enough... I need specific discernment and wisdom. John 15:5 is good for this. We can do nothing without Christ, much less finding someone for us.
So in short, I am not sure, but I think of it this way: God wants us being totally dependent on Him for this momentous decision and timing. When we are listening to Him and following His lead, He will show us the way that we should go. He knows everything already, including who we will marry (if we are meant to) but if we are not obedient, then we will miss out on the good things He has for us.
and trainfan, great post!
I think the major decisions and need for wisdom happen after the wedding. Any two people can build a wonderful marriage if they are both following Jesus and willing to work at it. I was lost when I proposed to M. But I got saved before the wedding (else her parents would not have allowed it) and for our enitre marriage we pursued Jesus. So whether she was the one God had for me, or I was the one God had for her, When we said "I DO" He said "I DO TOO" and we did!
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Where did we get the idea... - 9/18/2008 11:37:13 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5064
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
Any two people can build a wonderful marriage if they are both following Jesus and willing to work at it Would you also say a christian can be completely fulfilled in any career as long as he/she does so with the right attitude, works with people who are as committee to the Lord as they are, and works very hard at their job?
I don't think they can.....I think we can be content and even happy at such a job but I also think deep down there will always be a longing in us.....I knowing that God shaped molded and designed us for something different..........
If God gave a man a natural gifting to work with children, and the spiritual gift of teaching, would he fit as well working as a lawyer as he would a teacher? Would he be content never being who God had designed him to be?
My point is I don't think just because two people love the Lord, are committed to following him and willing to put in the hard work a marriage requires it means they will have a marriage which is all God intends it to be....
Just as God created us all uniquely to walk in our gifting, both natural and spiritual, in our role/mission in life I believe he also designed us to walk in marriage with one he has uniquely matched to us.
He takes every thing which makes up the soul.......emotion,intellect,experiences,talents,gifts and personality.......and prepares another who's own soul will work most beautifully with that soul and brings them together.........they are soul mates.......that doesn't mean their souls are identical.....but that they are a perfect fit, due to God's match making, for each other.
Thoughts?
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Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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